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Official Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD & BDP-51FD Owners Thread / Vs 1.32 DTS-HD MA - Page 1016

post #30451 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick R View Post

With a quick scan through I found this little gem in the front of the tech manual but really no other significant details on the drive other than waveform measurments and interface tests. But then did not spend too much time on it.

So looking at the technical warning on the intros is the following text applicable to the 05 and 51

---Laser Pickup specifications and Laser characteristics--

For BD
Wave length : 405 nm
Operating output : 0.95 mW CW, Class 1M
Maximum output : Class 2 (under fault condition)
For DVD
Wave length : 660nm
Operating output : 1.06 mW CW, Class 1M
Maximum output : Class 2M (under fault condition)
For CD
Wave length : 785 nm
Operating output : 1.34 mW CW, Class 1M
Maximum output : Class 1M (under fault condition)

So this confirms, to me anyway, there are three lasers and might shed some light on some of the conflicting symptoms we have seen in the past where DVD play is possible but an update CD won't load.

Nice find. Thanks. ūüėÄ
post #30452 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Nice find. Thanks. ūüėÄ

I thought it might be interesting for some, the thanks are appreciated
post #30453 of 30709
I have a bdp-5 and I dont use it that much, not in my main system but had a few questions. I set the -05 up when I 1st got it a number of years ago and never bothered to recheck my settings. It has worked fairly well with the exceptions of some bluray disc freeze ups. I have the current firmware 1.73 installed.

1. What is the preffered setting BDMV or BDAV in the setup menue? I went into the setup menue and noticed it was set to BDAV.

2. Is there any benefit for picking Auto over PCM in the setup menue?

My -05 is setup with a Pioneer VSX-94TXH and a PDP-5010

Thanks for the help.
Edited by baron2 - 5/30/13 at 10:50am
post #30454 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by baron2 View Post

I have a bdp-5 and I dont use it that much, not in my main system but had a few questions. I set the -05 up when I 1st got it a number of years ago and never bothered to recheck my settings. It has worked fairly well with the exceptions of some bluray disc freeze ups. I have the current firmware 1.73 installed.

1. What is the preffered setting BDMV or BDAV in the setup menue? I went into the setup menue and noticed it was set to BDAV.

2. Is there any benefit for picking Auto over PCM in the setup menue?

My -05 is setup with a Pioneer VSX-94TXH and a PDP-5010

Thanks for the help.

 

BDMV and BDAV are both "containers".  BDMV is what you get when you buy a movie.  BDAV is the container used when consumer oriented Blu-ray recordings are used.  Think AVCHD digital camcorders and a Blu-ray, BD-R disc burned to play back on your BDP-05FD.  I don't think it really matters in the set up menu as the machine will, should play back both formats.  Looking at the manual  I believe BDAV maybe the default setting however.  From your post I would guess you've never burned a Blu-ray disc and its never been a problem for your machine playing back BDMV's.

 

As for Auto over PCM; I think the bigger question is where you want to do the decoding, in the VSX-94TXH or the BDP-05FD.  My choice would be to decode in the receiver, I like to see the extra lights, so I would bit-stream to the receiver.  Don't forget to use the EQ option, in your case the 9 band MCACC EQ for room correction.

 

With an all Pioneer system, I found turning on the HDMI control in all three units worked really well to control all three units with one Pioneer remote. 

post #30455 of 30709
Thanks b curry for the explanation to my questions.smile.gif
post #30456 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post


As for Auto over PCM; I think the bigger question is where you want to do the decoding, in the VSX-94TXH or the BDP-05FD.  My choice would be to decode in the receiver, I like to see the extra lights, so I would bit-stream to the receiver.  Don't forget to use the EQ option, in your case the 9 band MCACC EQ for room correction.

With an all Pioneer system, I found turning on the HDMI control in all three units worked really well to control all three units with one Pioneer remote. 

I fully agree, just the way I am set up with a similar European receiver, after some fairly extensive testing I found I preferred the receiver to do the decoding particularly on CD, there was not much in it but the receiver doing the decoding it just sounded that bit more detailed, on movies for some reason the PCM sounded that bit softer.

Never bothered with the HDMI control after giving it a try just mess with two remotes (I don't have a Pio TV)
post #30457 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by limulus View Post

Well folks, it is time for me to say ah crap and throw in the towel. I've had this thing for 5 or 6 years now and have really liked it. I liked the look of it, the size of it and the weight of it. It had nice features and it didn't look cheap, but damn, I'm at my wits end now. I've loyally upgraded the firmware and now the last several Blu Ray discs just freeze. The real pisser is it can happen in the middle of the movie.

I very rarely come on here these days. I was content with the equipment I have and that includes this player and a matching Pioneer FPJ1 projector which was not cheap. Our theater still looks good and everything else has been very reliable. This is just not my hobby or passion at the moment and I just want the damn stuff to work. So, now I have to figure out what player to buy that has similar features w/o breaking the bank. I have a cheap Sony BD player at our lake house and it never even hiccups. The only other brand I even know these days is Oppo. The last thing I want to do is read 1000 pages of reviews to figure out what I should buy.

Oh and one final note: you won't see mine for sale on ebay. It will be in a damn recycling bin or at the bottom of a lake somewhere. I bought it new and I'm not about to unload my piece of crap onto someone else.

limulus, as a long time 51FD fan and supporter (original unit from BB, fw 0.80a bought with Ruined july 08... hey Pete, ltns, how's life!) I have had my 51FD relegated to the gest room/office for 2 years now where the kids can watch movies or I can listen to the occasional CD (not ripped yet). For the main family room viewing I have been using an Oppo 93 (and my faithful XA2).

The Oppo 93 has been a good next gen BD player for me and although I never had any significant problems with the 51FD and did not care about the slow loading times (good for popcorn and beer ritual) I do believe there was a small visible PQ improvement on my Pioneer 500m D-Nice calibrated plasma. Load times are not even comprable so I will not go there.

While I will never chuck it out the window nor bottom of a lake, the 51FD has lost all of its resale potential whilst the Oppo 93 hasn't much at all.

I strongly disagree with your comment re: 51FD = crap. It is a 2008 player and was the best for a while IMHO. We are in 2013, lots of inexpensive choices out there smile.gif

Best of luck with your new BD player.

Gman

Edit: ps, I use my TiVo for all streaming & movie downloading,(had it before the Oppo) but the Oppo does offer an impressive funtionality in that area.
Edited by GmanAVS - 6/4/13 at 2:05pm
post #30458 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by GmanAVS View Post


I strongly disagree with your comment re: 51FD = crap. It is a 2008 player and was the best for a while IMHO.
Sorry, but I have to disagree. I didn't mind the slowness (par for the course in 2008). And it did have excellent video and audio. But, it had the worst error correction of any player I have ever had, and there are too may complaints of premature laser failure. For the $550 I paid for it new, its overall performance was unacceptable.
post #30459 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by GmanAVS View Post


I strongly disagree with your comment re: 51FD = crap. It is a 2008 player and was the best for a while IMHO.
Sorry, but I have to disagree. I didn't mind the slowness (par for the course in 2008). And it did have excellent video and audio. But, it had the worst error correction of any player I have ever had, and there are too may complaints of premature laser failure. For the $550 I paid for it new, its overall performance was unacceptable.

Of course I was referring to my experience with my unit.

Perhaps the fact that it was part of that "not to be sold" batch that BB got in for display/demo and that it was made in Japan that made the difference vs. later production models from Mexico (if memory recalls correctly). I also know that others that purchased them at the same time from BB using the not well known SKU # never had a red laser issue.

The error correction was poor but again BD was still relatively speaking in it's infancy and disc manufacturures were as much to blame as the unit itself for playback issues.

I also did wash each disc with soapy water (dab of dish detergent using my fingers) befor use so that action may have helped as well..... and occasionally have to do with the Oppo 93 as well these days, BD has always been a disc clenliness sensitive format tongue.gif

And lastly, haven't been around this thread in a long time and did not realize so many have complained of red laser failure, that is a real bummer frown.gif

Best,

G
post #30460 of 30709
I bought mine from Value Electronics when it just came out (I think made in Japan). It was the poor error correction that bugged me the most. I use Netflix a lot, and many discs would simply freeze in the middle despite the lack of visible scratches. I replaced it with an inexpensive Panny 110, which played everything I threw at it, including Netflix discs. Just moved the Panny to the basement to use when exercising and bought an Oppo 105 for my main AV room. Don't think I will go with Pioneer again.
post #30461 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by GmanAVS View Post

Of course I was referring to my experience with my unit.

Perhaps the fact that it was part of that "not to be sold" batch that BB got in for display/demo and that it was made in Japan that made the difference vs. later production models from Mexico (if memory recalls correctly). I also know that others that purchased them at the same time from BB using the not well known SKU # never had a red laser issue.

I'm in this group as well (BB demo) and bought my 51FD before they were "officially" released. I actually have two MIJ 51FDs and I've never had an issue with either one. I've also never had a disc that wouldn't play other than once when I got behind on FW updates, and even on that one as soon as I updated the FW it played fine.

Maybe I'm just lucky but the demo is still my main unit and I use it often. In fact, my two 51FDs are the only blu-ray players I own or have ever owned and I have no immediate plans of replacing either one till one of them dies. wink.gif
post #30462 of 30709
The Pio 51FD is also my first and only Blu Ray player so far. But I fear it's been on it's last leg for a while. It hasn't played CDs for a number of years now. I've had to do mty last two firmware updates by burning to DVD instead of CD.

It still seems to play most Blu Rays (except for those I get via mail via Block Buster), but it is hit and miss on DVDs and as I mentioned, stopped playing any CDs a few years back.

rick
post #30463 of 30709
This thing is such a kick ass cd player. Listening to a remastered CSN&Y Deja Vu disc. Not quite as warm as it is on vinyl, but damn good
post #30464 of 30709
While the Pioneer has a very good audio section, I was surprised to see how much better the Oppo BDP-83SE was over the Pioneer BDP-05FD. I also have a Pioneer PDP-09FD and th Oppo kills it as well. I wonder how much better the Oppo BDP-95 and BDP-105 are?
post #30465 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

I bought mine from Value Electronics when it just came out (I think made in Japan). It was the poor error correction that bugged me the most. I use Netflix a lot, and many discs would simply freeze in the middle despite the lack of visible scratches. I replaced it with an inexpensive Panny 110, which played everything I threw at it, including Netflix discs. Just moved the Panny to the basement to use when exercising and bought an Oppo 105 for my main AV room. Don't think I will go with Pioneer again.

+1

My first Japan built 51 would lock up sometimes when loading a BD disc. I exchanged it for another Japan built 51. No lockups when loading, but all too often Netflix rentals would freeze up during the movie. I ditched it for a Pio 320, which has been much more reliable with rental BDs. When this Pio bites the dust, I doubt I'll get another Pio player.
post #30466 of 30709
^^^Agreed, while I haven't been too upset with my 51 I went ahead and bought a 52 expecting greatness. What I got was the bad taste of $400 being wasted on garbage
post #30467 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by GmanAVS View Post

Of course I was referring to my experience with my unit.

Perhaps the fact that it was part of that "not to be sold" batch that BB got in for display/demo and that it was made in Japan that made the difference vs. later production models from Mexico (if memory recalls correctly). I also know that others that purchased them at the same time from BB using the not well known SKU # never had a red laser issue.

The error correction was poor but again BD was still relatively speaking in it's infancy and disc manufacturures were as much to blame as the unit itself for playback issues.

I also did wash each disc with soapy water (dab of dish detergent using my fingers) befor use so that action may have helped as well..... and occasionally have to do with the Oppo 93 as well these days, BD has always been a disc clenliness sensitive format tongue.gif

And lastly, haven't been around this thread in a long time and did not realize so many have complained of red laser failure, that is a real bummer frown.gif

Best,

G

I'm in your camp, the MIJ 05, but not an early release, is still going strong although now is a second player in the den. Never went to the extremes you have with cleaning discs, just handled them carefully and blew them off with compressed air if there were any problems. Never failed to play anything, even the latest releases. I have also not noticed any particular problems with error correction, although I don't rent discs, that might be different.

Yep there have been a few more redlaser problems than there should have been (and blue laser). As I posted earlier the 51 and 05 I recently found out has 3 lasers and it would appear, from what I recollect, in the main the failing red laser has been the one for CD. A few recent posts have shown that it is not always a laser failure but just a dirty laser lens, producing some strange playability issues on BD, several folks have recently had great success by manually cleaning the laser lens.

Like you I now use the Oppo 93 as the main player and use the same practice, handle discs carefully, in the case if not in the player, again never a failure to play anything and probably the natural successor to the 51/05 with a lot more going for it. Of course now we are at the 103/105 again very good players with even more flexibility and top customer service, all things perhaps Pioneer should be taking notice of.

Nice to see you posting here after such a long time
post #30468 of 30709
I am occasionally on AVS and do keep an eye on this thread..... just had to jump in to voice my experience wink.gif

Funny how we have similar room setups (BD players) cool.gif, best, G
post #30469 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by GmanAVS View Post

I am occasionally on AVS and do keep an eye on this thread..... just had to jump in to voice my experience wink.gif

Funny how we have similar room setups (BD players) cool.gif, best, G[/quote]

We just got good taste I guess wink.gif but seriously nice to know you are still about, all the best Rick
post #30470 of 30709
Okay, so I had to jump on this thread because I too just realized my BDP-51FD stopped playing regular audio CD's. DVD is fine, Blu-Ray is fine... It's weird. I tried a factory reset. It is on ver. 1.72 of the firmware. I tried updating the firmware to 1.73 but of course I burnt it to a CD, and it won't recognize that disc either. It isn't ready for the trash pile yet and I can still play CD's on my Pioneer DV-575A DVD/SACD combo machine. Not a huge deal but wtf.. Looks like I am not the only with this issue? Did anyone solve the problem or learn what the culprit was?
post #30471 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatnate View Post

Okay, so I had to jump on this thread because I too just realized my BDP-51FD stopped playing regular audio CD's. DVD is fine, Blu-Ray is fine... It's weird. I tried a factory reset. It is on ver. 1.72 of the firmware. I tried updating the firmware to 1.73 but of course I burnt it to a CD, and it won't recognize that disc either. It isn't ready for the trash pile yet and I can still play CD's on my Pioneer DV-575A DVD/SACD combo machine. Not a huge deal but wtf.. Looks like I am not the only with this issue? Did anyone solve the problem or learn what the culprit was?

Red laser failure? Right? Hasn't happened to me so I'm just guessing. But it seems to clearly point to that.
post #30472 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

Red laser failure? Right? Hasn't happened to me so I'm just guessing. But it seems to clearly point to that.

I thought that as well, but wouldn't red laser failure affect DVD playback as well? Thing is, DVD's roll just fine... confused.gif
post #30473 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatnate View Post

I thought that as well, but wouldn't red laser failure affect DVD playback as well? Thing is, DVD's roll just fine... confused.gif

A few posts up it was mentioned that the 51 and 05 have 3 lasers, presumably one each for CD, DVD, and BD. smile.gif
post #30474 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

A few posts up it was mentioned that the 51 and 05 have 3 lasers, presumably one each for CD, DVD, and BD. smile.gif

Thanks for pointing that out. Yeah, this problem would substantiate that.

I take it you guys would not recommend the disc brush system but rather a service tech who can do a proper cleaning?
post #30475 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatnate View Post

Thanks for pointing that out. Yeah, this problem would substantiate that.

I take it you guys would not recommend the disc brush system but rather a service tech who can do a proper cleaning?

A brush one specifically for bluray worked for me with a minor problem. Was me who posted about 3 lasers (in tech manual). Suspect though most likely the red laser used for CD is possibly U/S. Others have burnt update to DVD with success. Have a go with a cleaner for bluray (I used Maxell with brushes), check some earlier posts one or two pages back for details on how to manually clean the laser lens, not a difficult task if you are careful and patient. Best of luck, will try to help if you need more advice by pointing you to relevant posts. Note that a replacement drive is expensive around $400
post #30476 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick R View Post

A brush one specifically for bluray worked for me with a minor problem. Was me who posted about 3 lasers (in tech manual). Suspect though most likely the red laser used for CD is possibly U/S. Others have burnt update to DVD with success. Have a go with a cleaner for bluray (I used Maxell with brushes), check some earlier posts one or two pages back for details on how to manually clean the laser lens, not a difficult task if you are careful and patient. Best of luck, will try to help if you need more advice by pointing you to relevant posts. Note that a replacement drive is expensive around $400

Well I found the posts that outline the cleaning, so I'm going to attempt manually cleaning it. I'm not getting my hopes up as far as that being a solution. It is still usable for now. If a new drive is $400, I guess I would just assume save up for an Oppo. I would like the SACD support and the subtitile shift if I ever purchase an anamorphic lens. I'll report back in a few days.
Edited by Flatnate - 6/15/13 at 5:59pm
post #30477 of 30709
I have a BDP-51FD that was giving me issues as well. Mine was having problems loading some Blu-ray Discs. I month or so ago I got some canned air and stuck the straw in the drive with the drawer open and blew it out a few times. After that I tried loading a few discs. It definitely made an improvement although it wasn't perfect.

I later found a mint condition BDP-05FD Elite on eBay and was able to score it for $150 shipped. That one has been working even better than the other but, again, it still isn't perfect. The firmware is out of date, though, so I may try updating it to see if that helps.
post #30478 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatnate View Post

Well I found the posts that outline the cleaning, so I'm going to attempt manually cleaning it. I'm not getting my hopes up as far as that being a solution. It is still usable for now. If a new drive is $400, I guess I would just assume save up for an Oppo. I would like the SACD support and the subtitile shift if I ever purchase an anamorphic lens. I'll report back in a few days.

As you say it is still usable and does provide good VQ and AQ. But you are right at $400 you are getting close to the price of an Oppo and I could not recommend that move more highly. The only thing with the new Oppos 103/105 is they have Cinavia incorporated to if you are into backing up movies or streaming them you may have problems with some Sony titles. But there is so much more including the SACD there is DVD A, ability to play AVI and other formats from a memory stick, streaming etc. and to top it all great backup service.
post #30479 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatnate View Post


Well I found the posts that outline the cleaning, so I'm going to attempt manually cleaning it. I'm not getting my hopes up as far as that being a solution. It is still usable for now. If a new drive is $400, I guess I would just assume save up for an Oppo. I would like the SACD support and the subtitile shift if I ever purchase an anamorphic lens. I'll report back in a few days.

 

I have read the post from Rick R regarding 3 lasers and find it both interesting and confusing. Interesting because it does support some anecdotal evidence posted here. Confusing because unless the drive maker has found a very clever way to rotate in and out a third laser that is hidden somewhere, there are only 2 laser diodes in the drive. I've taken apart the drive on my BDP-05FD for cleaning and again there were only two laser diodes visible on the drive head.

 

Perhaps the Red laser diode is operating at two different frequencies and Pioneer has call out three lasers in this case; I don't know?

 

Flatnate, if you do disassemble the drive for cleaning, a couple of tips; have an assortment of good quality screwdrivers available. I would suggest having several separate containers available to place the various screws in as you disassemble/reassemble to avoid losing any. Line the containers up in the order you disassemble and the reverse order reassembly work will go a little faster. You will need to completely remove the drive from the machine for drive disassembly and this will most likely require snipping 1 or 2 wire zip ties to disconnect the wire harness without damaging the drive connectors. So, a small pair of diagonal cutters will come in handy and maybe some 3 or 4 inch zip ties if you want to re-bundle the wires.

 

It is not a difficult job and should take around 1 to 2 hours depending on your skill level.

 

My BDP-05FD was having trouble with some of the new 20th Century Fox titles and I preformed the above cleaning procedure. It did not help. My machine continues to play everything else with out fail. The remedy for my situation was the purchase of an Oppo BDP-103.

post #30480 of 30709
Thanks guys,

Yeah the cleaning project may come Monday, I'll definately take you up on the advice. I have several small screw drivers and a few optical ones around. Hopefully I don't have to purchase anything, as my suspicions lead me to believe this may be futile.

Cinavia is the one thing that really gets me riled up on the new machines. The analog sunset really yanks my chain. My father has an older projector without HDMI and is running the (now forcibly discontinued) Monoprice HDMI to component converter box, so I'm tempted to give him the Pioneer. Perhaps the players days are numbered but at least I have some breathing room while I squirrel away $499. Last week, I bought a second hand Onkyo PR-SC5508, so if the Oppo was to show up tomorrow my wife will kill me.
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