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Official Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD & BDP-51FD Owners Thread / Vs 1.32 DTS-HD MA - Page 1018

post #30511 of 30709
Hi guys, I'm new to this so I hope it's just stupidity lol. I have a bdp-51fd hooked into a pioneer vsx-522-k through hdmi and I can't for the life of me get it to put out any of the hd audio it claims it can put out. I've had this Blu ray since they first came out and have updated it fully and I've never had a single issue with it until now. My receiver shows me that the only signal it is receiving is regular Dolby digital. That was with the dark night Blu ray playing which is Dolby true hd. Any help will be appreciated lol. Thanks
post #30512 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew1991 View Post

Hi guys, I'm new to this so I hope it's just stupidity lol. I have a bdp-51fd hooked into a pioneer vsx-522-k through hdmi and I can't for the life of me get it to put out any of the hd audio it claims it can put out. I've had this Blu ray since they first came out and have updated it fully and I've never had a single issue with it until now. My receiver shows me that the only signal it is receiving is regular Dolby digital. That was with the dark night Blu ray playing which is Dolby true hd. Any help will be appreciated lol. Thanks

Welcome to the forum, its getting a little long in the tooth now but still has loyal members.

There are a number of things that could cause your issue and we may have to delve deeper and if so I'll post or PM you a list of ideal settings, but we'll start off with a few simple common ones, you will have to bear with me as I no longer have my 05. I think there is an ideal setup configuration at the beginning of this thread if so I'll post a link.

First thing to check is the audio and video priority outputs are set correctly and both set to HDMI from memory set up menu go down to options and check that HDMI is set as the priority terminal for both Video and Audio.

Second thing to check is that HDMI is set to high speed, this can sometimes reset itself to off after a firmware update and factory reset when it sees a different HDMI connection for the first time after the factory reset. If it is off (you usually get on screen warning if this happens) you will have to set it on and also if you have a preferred color space eg RGB video or 4.4.4. whatever you will find you will need to reselect that to whatever you want from auto.

Check that secondary audio and video are set to OFF

I am assuming that being a familiar user you are set to 1080p or a fairly high resolution, low resolution settings can restrict the audio because HD audio is embedded in the HDMI video.

So there is a couple of starters, post back and let us know how you get on. If needs be I will dig out all the stuff I have here for reference (no longer having the player and manual is a little bit of a handicap but at least I can download the manual)
post #30513 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew1991 View Post

Hi guys, I'm new to this so I hope it's just stupidity lol. I have a bdp-51fd hooked into a pioneer vsx-522-k through hdmi and I can't for the life of me get it to put out any of the hd audio it claims it can put out. I've had this Blu ray since they first came out and have updated it fully and I've never had a single issue with it until now. My receiver shows me that the only signal it is receiving is regular Dolby digital. That was with the dark night Blu ray playing which is Dolby true hd. Any help will be appreciated lol. Thanks
As promised check this post by Ruined full of useful tips there are a few other links too on page 1 of this thread http://www.avsforum.com/t/1054927/official-pioneer-elite-bdp-05fd-bdp-51fd-owners-thread-vs-1-32-dts-hd-ma#post_14420797

PS one other thing you might try is clearing the BDMV cache not sure if this would affect HD audio but it might
To do - No disc in the drive press the tools button and two options will appear select the lower one Clear BDMV Cache (or something similar) and press enter the options yes or no will appear, select yes and press enter again
Edited by Rick R - 7/21/13 at 7:10am
post #30514 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew1991 View Post

Hi guys, I'm new to this so I hope it's just stupidity lol. I have a bdp-51fd hooked into a pioneer vsx-522-k through hdmi and I can't for the life of me get it to put out any of the hd audio it claims it can put out. I've had this Blu ray since they first came out and have updated it fully and I've never had a single issue with it until now. My receiver shows me that the only signal it is receiving is regular Dolby digital. That was with the dark night Blu ray playing which is Dolby true hd. Any help will be appreciated lol. Thanks

I also found this under a spoiler alert in Ruined post and will save you looking for it. Do post back and let us know how you get on it would also be a good idea to check the settings in your AVR, although I have two Pioneer AVR's I am not familiar with your model and it may have the facility to make adjustments to the HDMI inputs and outputs which mine do not.

PS just checked a bit of the info for your receiver (I can't believe Pioneer have sunk so low as to fit spring clips for speaker terminations even if it is only the surrounds rolleyes.gif) and I note it is HDMI 1.4 and 3D capable this suggests that you should check you are using at least a Cat 2 high speed cable the manual in the first few pages re-affirms a high speed cable is necessary as does the 51FD manual. Although it might work OK with older cat 1 cables and some will argue it will I would suggest as a minimum re-seating the HDMI cable at both ends and if possible changing it out with an HDMI Cat 2 high speed cable or even HDMI ver 1.4 cable although the latter is not strictly necessary

Recommended settings for HDMI setups

HOME MENU (STOP playback of any Blu-ray Discs)
****
Video Out
-TV Aspect Ratio: 16:9/Widescreen
-4:3 Video Out: Normal
-DVD 16:9 Video Out: Letterbox
-Still Picture: Auto
****
Audio Out
-N/A unless you are not using HDMI, in which case pick appropriate setting
****
Speakers
-N/A unless you are not using HDMI, in which case pick appropriate setting
****
HDMI
-HDMI High-Speed Transmission: On
-HDMI Color Space: Auto
-HDMI Audio Out: PCM (Switch to Auto if you want DTS-MA bitstreaming, but you will lose audio on PiP commentaries)
-PQLS: Auto
-HDMI Control: Off
****
Language
-N/A unless you are using a language other than English, in which case pick appropriate setting
****
Parental Lock
-N/A unless you need parental lock, in which case pick appropriate setting
****
Options
-Output Terminal Priority: Next Screen then HDMI/HDMI or appropriate setting
-On Screen Display: On
-Angle/Secondary Indicator: Off
-Hybrid Disc Playback: BD
-BDMV/BDAV Playback Priority: BDAV
-Auto Power Off: On (or your preference)
****
Setup Navigator
-Run this the first time you use the player or after a factory reset is performed.
****
****
****
VIDEO ADJUST MENU (While Blu-ray Disc is playing)
Set to "Professional"
****
****
****
RESOLUTION MENU (While BD disc is playing, RESOLUTION UP/DOWN BUTTONS on remote)
-Set to "AUTO" for internal processing; on v1.17 firmware internal processing beats HQV Reon - also holds true for KURO sets, AUTO will provide you a better picture as the 51/05 internal upscaling is better than the Kuro's upscaling
-Set to "Source Direct" if you need to force 24p or have a very high end scaler i.e. DVDO Edge, Lumagen Radiance, etc
****
Edited by Rick R - 7/21/13 at 7:31am
post #30515 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

I don't blame you one bit for going with the 95. No need to replace a TV you like. Who knows how long it will take to fix the issue with the 103, and there's no guaranty it will ever be fixed. My 980h has a couple bugs that were never fixed. Fortunately they are minor ones I can live with.

I went through the "waiting for a fix" game repeatedly with the Pio 51 and said I won't do that again. If the player doesn't satisfy within the return period, then it will go back. I also am very unlikely to buy another player soon after its introduced as new models always seem to be released with multiple bugs. This practice drives me crazy, but it seems almost universal these days. frown.gif

I agree with the release of models with bugs (same for cars these days) and about the waiting for a fix bit 51FD and 05 are prime examples mad.gif but the 103 has been out a while. I have to say the 93 seemed pretty solid from the start and the only real gripe for a lot of users was the ISO playback facility accidently included and at a later stage removed by pressure from the studios. Because of the studios it is now not really possible to have a truly universal player, even more restrictions coming for the 10X series I believe on the use of some file structures for home streaming, luckily does not affect me as just now with the models I have and that I don't stream either at the moment. I also now don't have cinavia biggrin.gif

Dunno if you might have any ideas that will help andrew1991 who has posted above. One thing I forgot to suggest was changing out the HDMI cable to the AVR or at least re inserting it and making sure it is not stressed
post #30516 of 30709
Hi again everybody and thanks for all the info. I managed to get dts hd master out of the hangover two with the settings suggested but I still can't get Dolby tru hd to work on the dark night. My receiver is base model but have never had an issue. Could it be because the dark night is recorded in 7.1 and I have it going to a 5.1 avr? My ps3 played everything perfectly but I like the idea of having the pio Blu ray with pio avr and the pio Andrew jones collection lol. It just looks good
post #30517 of 30709
Figured it out lol. I had to change the audio settings on the movie lol. And I've read a lot of posts about this Blu ray. Maybe I just got lucky (knock on wood) but I have never had an issue with it. I've played burnt CDs and burnt mp3 discs and every movie I've put in it without any issues at all. I love it. It's is slow but I think it's worth the wait. Thanks everyone, you were a big help. If I have any other questions I know where to go lol
post #30518 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick R View Post

I agree with the release of models with bugs (same for cars these days) and about the waiting for a fix bit 51FD and 05 are prime examples mad.gif but the 103 has been out a while. I have to say the 93 seemed pretty solid from the start and the only real gripe for a lot of users was the ISO playback facility accidently included and at a later stage removed by pressure from the studios. Because of the studios it is now not really possible to have a truly universal player, even more restrictions coming for the 10X series I believe on the use of some file structures for home streaming, luckily does not affect me as just now with the models I have and that I don't stream either at the moment. I also now don't have cinavia biggrin.gif

Dunno if you might have any ideas that will help andrew1991 who has posted above. One thing I forgot to suggest was changing out the HDMI cable to the AVR or at least re inserting it and making sure it is not stressed

I see I'm a bit late, but like you I was thinking Andrew should check tAudio Priority. Glad to see it was a simple fix.
post #30519 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew1991 View Post

Figured it out lol. I had to change the audio settings on the movie lol. And I've read a lot of posts about this Blu ray. Maybe I just got lucky (knock on wood) but I have never had an issue with it. I've played burnt CDs and burnt mp3 discs and every movie I've put in it without any issues at all. I love it. It's is slow but I think it's worth the wait. Thanks everyone, you were a big help. If I have any other questions I know where to go lol

Yes that can happen we have all been there but glad you got it sorted, just a hint, it is a good idea where you can to use specific settings rather than auto in the set up (note with HDMI audio output it is auto or PCM, to get bitstream you must set to auto) it can help reduce handshaking and speed up the load time a little, and every bit counts with the 51FD. Really whilst they continue to work apart from the slow loading and being finicky with bluray, particularly rentals, (cleanliness and no scratches is paramount with BD) they do produce excellent audio and video perfornance. With the professional setting, see the set up notes above, they are very close to reference standard. Pioneer continue to produce some fairly decent AVR although the more base models tend to be a bit more plasticy but the performance is usually respectable I am just so disappointed they spoil a product by using spring clip speaker terminals there is no excuse for any AVR with hi-fi pretentions to have this kind of terminal fitted. But the important thing is you are getting a good performance from your setup and one that you are pretty happy with and that is the important thing
post #30520 of 30709
One more question lol. I'm prob in the wrong area for this question but any suggestions on fixing my sound? It's good and I cant wait to get an elite but I noticed on big moments like explosions and crashes it gets pretty harsh on the highs. I have it auto calibrated and in direct mode with phase control and the crossover for the speakers set to 80 and no midnight or loudness. So for the life of me I can't figure out how to fix this. My guess is my speakers r really sensitive and the receiver is to (bright) any suggestions?
post #30521 of 30709
Is your amp being driven into clipping? How many watts per channel do you have?
post #30522 of 30709
Your Pioneer receiver is probably running out of power. It is only rated 80 watts/channel. The light weight (19 lbs) indicates that the receiver also has a mediocre power supply which will not be able to supply enough power when the speakers are driven loud. The problem gets worse if your speakers are rated four ohms as it requires even more current than eight ohm drivers. My guess is that the receiver actually can deliver only about 20-30 watts with all channels driven, or about 12dB increase over whatever the speakers are rated for at 1-watt. Higher powered amps (i.e. 140 watt, 50 lb receivers) can deliver about a 21dB increase in volume, or about 9dB more than what your Pioneer can deliver.

Sorry to say, but looking at the going price ($180), you cannot expect much from it. You are probably driving the amp over its ability. if you keep playing at loud volumes, you will probably destroy the speakers.
post #30523 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post

...
if you keep playing at loud volumes, you will probably destroy the speakers.

Yes, watch out for this. The high frequency harmonics of clipped waveforms are much stronger than normal audio sources and can fry tweeters.
post #30524 of 30709
Well I am running the pioneer Andrew jones speakers with it and the mains r rated at 130, center 90, and surrounds 80. There all 6ohm and pioneer claims my amp can push 140 peak at 6ohm. That's one channel driven tho which I have no idea what that means
post #30525 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew1991 View Post

Well I am running the pioneer Andrew jones speakers with it and the mains r rated at 130, center 90, and surrounds 80. There all 6ohm and pioneer claims my amp can push 140 peak at 6ohm. That's one channel driven tho which I have no idea what that means

The "one channel driven" means the power supply is too small to support all channels at full power. Unfortunately how much too small is undefined. And, back in the day, amplifier power ratings had to be in RMS watts and everyone knew what that meant. So I have no idea what "peak" watts are. I think that is rather undefined too. So it's hard to know how much real world power you actually have available. And, as Jon points out, at 19lb., there's probably not much of a power supply in there. Putting all this together with the sound you describe, I'd think it very likely that the amp is clipping.
post #30526 of 30709
So I'm guessing a power conditioner won't help because the actual power supply in the amp is to small?
post #30527 of 30709
A power conditioner just cleans up any extraneous noise from your house AC line. It won't do anything for you regarding volume. If the amp is ratd 140 watts with one channel peak, you are probably going to be at 80 watts per channel with only one channel driven as rated. That is all the current the amp can generate going to onechannel only. Now, if you run five channels, the current available has to be split between all five channels. That means the amp will probably supply no more than 16 watts to each speaker before it runs out of gas...

Again, that's about 12dB louder than one watt... (power demands increase exponentially. you need double the power for every 3dB increase in sound). If the speakers are rated at 88db/watt, that means the loudest you can really get would be about 100 dB at a steady tone. But movies do not play back at a set volume, it is dynamic. It can peak at 10dB over normal volumes, so that mean you can only drive your speakers up to 90dB average with peaks at 100dB, which will be relatively soft.

BTW, you should really start a new thread because we are getting off topic on this thread...
post #30528 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew1991 View Post

Well I am running the pioneer Andrew jones speakers with it and the mains r rated at 130, center 90, and surrounds 80. There all 6ohm and pioneer claims my amp can push 140 peak at 6ohm. That's one channel driven tho which I have no idea what that means

What the guys have said is all good sense and rightly it is getting off topic and should be taken up in either the appropriate thread or a new one started, but then I been a bit guilty of that too smile.gif. I'll add my two cents though forget or ignore the 140 watt peak at 6 ohm and pio don't mention one channel in the manual (if one channel driven is mentioned, it means that is the max power for one channel and will not achieve that for multiple channels, a bit of a cheat actually) they do however state at 1% harmonic distortion for that figure which is quite high. Look at the 8 ohm spec which is continous average power 80 watts per channel 20Hz to 20kHz at 0.08% total harmonic distortion which is far more meaningful figure, and the way the spec is written I suspect this is stereo or two channels only, not all 5. What did surprise me is power consumption is rated at 450W that is more than some of Pioneers more powerful and expensive 7.1 channel models so either the power amps are very basic inefficent design or PSU is an inefficient cheap design possibly with the light weight of the amp a cheap switched mode psu that can't handle the surges. It is maybe you are running the system a bit too enthusiastically and I suspect running the speaker treble units into the start of distortion again they are quite basic units and if you enventually go for an elite they will not cope.
Edited by Rick R - 7/24/13 at 5:29am
post #30529 of 30709
I have a new problem with a thus far flawless BDP-05FD. I saw that someone posted about this previously but follwed the thread and did not see a resolution. I'm hoping someone has experience and can shed a light on my problem.

2 nights running, with 2 different movies (Serenity & Wall-E on Blu Ray) we get a little over an hour into the movies and it freezes. Audio drops and the image freezes on screen. The only way out is to eject the disc and star over. Go back to the same spot and it will play for a few seconds or minutes and repeat the problem. Intermittnently I get an error (both on screen and on the LED) of : device key information incorrect.

I've cleaned the lens. Considering a reset (which I've never had to do). Any other ideas as to whether I can fix this or if I'm facing a dying laser or something that will save me some exercises in futility. I love the player and would go to some lengths within reason to save it for the DACs.

Thanks in advance.
post #30530 of 30709
Is the disc clean? Any fingerprints? If that is okay, then there is probably something wrong with the player... But I suspect it is a disc issue since it stops in exactly the same place...
post #30531 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artzilla View Post

I have a new problem with a thus far flawless BDP-05FD. I saw that someone posted about this previously but follwed the thread and did not see a resolution. I'm hoping someone has experience and can shed a light on my problem.

2 nights running, with 2 different movies (Serenity & Wall-E on Blu Ray) we get a little over an hour into the movies and it freezes. Audio drops and the image freezes on screen. The only way out is to eject the disc and star over. Go back to the same spot and it will play for a few seconds or minutes and repeat the problem. Intermittnently I get an error (both on screen and on the LED) of : device key information incorrect.

I've cleaned the lens. Considering a reset (which I've never had to do). Any other ideas as to whether I can fix this or if I'm facing a dying laser or something that will save me some exercises in futility. I love the player and would go to some lengths within reason to save it for the DACs.

Thanks in advance.

I go along with Jon S on this one. I have Wall-E and it played with no problems. Have you tried clearing the BDMV cache (no disc in drive press Tools button on the remote select clear cache and enter and then select yes) the other thing in your post that concerns me is you state you have never had to do a reset. This is highly recommended (you might say essential) after a firmware update and also when problems occur. As well as clearing the cache I would do a factory reset, then do the initial set up and clear the cache again and then power down the player and remove the electrical supply (unplug it) for about 1 minute. Then power up the player and put in your preferred settings (the first page of this thread has some useful recommended settings) and see how you go from there. One other point to note these players are really finicky on Bluray for cleanliness and unscratched or marked discs (rentals can be a real problem), make sure they are pristine by checking with reflected light and angling the disc this way and that.
post #30532 of 30709
definitely clean the disc.........biggrin.gif
post #30533 of 30709
Does anyone here favor the BDP-51 over the Elite model BDP-05?
Why?
post #30534 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by JA Fant View Post

Does anyone here favor the BDP-51 over the Elite model BDP-05?
Why?

If it came down to price then yes the 51 other than that there are no real significant differences, the 05 has touch controls on the aluminium front panel (I think the 51 might be plastic) and slightly better analogue video processing otherwise the players are identical. I didn't know that when I bought mine or it would have been the 51FD biggrin.gif
post #30535 of 30709
Rick,

Can you comment on how the Pioneer players compared to Oppo in terms of BD error correction?

While my Pio 320 has been more reliable with less than perfect BDs than my 51, it still seems it could be much better.
post #30536 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Rick,

Can you comment on how the Pioneer players compared to Oppo in terms of BD error correction?

While my Pio 320 has been more reliable with less than perfect BDs than my 51, it still seems it could be much better.

My 51 had the worst error correction of any player I have owned (I cannot comment on newer Pioneer models since I would never buy one again after my experience with the 51). My Panny 110 and now my Oppo 105 have played everything I threw at it. Others have commented that their Oppo has played discs that other players have had problems with. IMO, there's no comparison between Oppo and Pioneer when it comes to error correction!
post #30537 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

My 51 had the worst error correction of any player I have owned (I cannot comment on newer Pioneer models since I would never buy one again after my experience with the 51). My Panny 110 and now my Oppo 105 have played everything I threw at it. Others have commented that their Oppo has played discs that other players have had problems with. IMO, there's no comparison between Oppo and Pioneer when it comes to error correction!

Thanks for the feedback. Does your experience include playing BD rentals (I get BD discs from Netflix)? I ask because back when I had the 51 and asked about other's experience some said they had no issues. Turned out they where only playing new retail BDs , not rentals.
post #30538 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Rick,

Can you comment on how the Pioneer players compared to Oppo in terms of BD error correction?

While my Pio 320 has been more reliable with less than perfect BDs than my 51, it still seems it could be much better.

Although my 05 never had too many problems it was mostly owned discs, but it was very fussy about cleanliness even very small hairs would cause problems. The Oppos well they seem to play anything even old scratched discs, I have heard of no one who has had problems with rentals with Oppo (except genuinely faulty discs), no refusals here so far (touch wood) even weird and wonderful home movies. I would say in my experience 100% better specifically for bluray and so much faster as well. I think to be honest the new 103 and 105 have had their share of problems and unusually Oppo has been quite a long time sorting the bugs, but they have a final firmware out now which I think fixes most things. Personally I feel the 93/95 are more robust, I tried the 103 and had some problems and didn't really feel comfortable with the player.


PS Looking back I feel I should qualify that bit the 103 is an execellent player and I liked the AQ but the one I had may have had a minor fault that caused me a specific HDMI problem which I didn't like, and also I think it is all the additional bits like HDMI inputs which I will never use and the fact that the home screen is now displayed at startup with a lot of functions that are tailored to North America which we can't use in Europe so it is not nice and clean like the 93 and to me just looks untidy. In the main what I want personally is something that plays all shiny discs extremely well, the ability to play movies and music through the usb ports is a plus but for me not essential
Edited by Rick R - 8/4/13 at 4:21am
post #30539 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Thanks for the feedback. Does your experience include playing BD rentals (I get BD discs from Netflix)? I ask because back when I had the 51 and asked about other's experience some said they had no issues. Turned out they where only playing new retail BDs , not rentals.

Most of my movie watching has been with Netflix discs, and yes, the 51 had major problems even when the discs looked fine. I have had no problems playing Netflix discs with either the Panny 110 or the Oppo 105.
post #30540 of 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

Most of my movie watching has been with Netflix discs, and yes, the 51 had major problems even when the discs looked fine. I have had no problems playing Netflix discs with either the Panny 110 or the Oppo 105.

Great info.....thanks. smile.gif
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