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Official Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD & BDP-51FD Owners Thread / Vs 1.32 DTS-HD MA - Page 108

post #3211 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmcleod View Post

just picked up 05 unit and plan to install this weekend.
hooking up to onkyo 805.
Instructions and forum references " high speed " cable.
apparently, there are issues without this.
have been using blue jean hdmi cables without any difficulties.
do I need to look for " high speed " Monster type cables or will blue jean be ok ?
thanks
tim

HDMI 1.3 can handle a higher data rate than previous HDMI specifications. To meet these cables are tested at the higher rates. Older cables that were not tested for this are still likely to work. Long runs to front projectors are the most likely situation for problems if a higher data rate were used.

This site has more detail on this http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articl...s.htm?hdmiinfo.
post #3212 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyGood View Post

...The downside of this machine for me is that the audio on the 05' gets a little out of sync with the video and sometimes at the start of a movie, no sound will output and I have to pause/stop the disc and then when I restart it, the audio comes on. Other than that, it is certainly a pretty piece, not as slick as the Magnavox in terms of speed/operation but oh well, at the least for the price I paid, I feel a little better about sucking up the shortcommings.

Which movies? I haven't experienced this anymore with the updates.
post #3213 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

I have the 51 and multi-channel analog is the way to go! Aside from the skimpy bass management claim, you will be thrilled with the sound of this player. It will decode DolbyTruHD and (with future update) DTS HD audio, and you can keep your old AVR or pre/pro to enjoy it.

Thanks for responding, but what does that mean? How do I set that up?

Yes, I am a dumbace.
post #3214 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmcleod View Post

just picked up 05 unit and plan to install this weekend.
hooking up to onkyo 805.
Instructions and forum references " high speed " cable.
apparently, there are issues without this.
have been using blue jean hdmi cables without any difficulties.
do I need to look for " high speed " Monster type cables or will blue jean be ok ?
thanks
tim

Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

HDMI 1.3 can handle a higher data rate than previous HDMI specifications. To meet these cables are tested at the higher rates. Older cables that were not tested for this are still likely to work. Long runs to front projectors are the most likely situation for problems if a higher data rate were used.

This site has more detail on this http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articl...s.htm?hdmiinfo.

As UMR notes, the article at Blue Jeans Cable is good for explaining some of the basics. For some bench-test results on how cables from different manufacturers and vendors measured (including Monster), you might want to take a look at this table here: http://www.audioholics.com/education...esting-results The article itself is also pretty informative.
post #3215 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

I believe you would find cables are not a factor in most situations unless you have a long cable run, heavy cables or poor connectors. Here is a video on the subject http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDw2ZSDzlMw. There is quite a bit of marketing voodoo in this business designed to separate you from your money.

Jeff, I think most of us here aren't surprised by that video, but it was fun to watch. But don't post that over at the "ultra high end" section of AVS, they'll send out a hit man to get you. Those guys are pretty sensitive about their $1,000/ft cable.
post #3216 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shutterman View Post

As UMR notes, the article at Blue Jeans Cable is good for explaining some of the basics. For some bench-test results on how cables from different manufacturers and vendors measured (including Monster), you might want to take a look at this table here: http://www.audioholics.com/education...esting-results The article itself is also pretty informative.

Nice test results. They tend to match what I see in the field. The really expensive ones are generally the worst.
post #3217 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

1. Says page 107 of 107 for me. I dunno, what does it say for you?
2. Just wondering what the general consensus for setup is. e.g. High speed trans on/off.
3. Thanks for the input.

Waboman,

The 51/05 offer many setup choices and everyone will have their own preference. You might like Source Direct hooked up to an outboard scaler, or you might like Source Direct going straight to your set, so the set can deinterlace the video signal. Then, again, you might like the Auto mode, which will configure all signals to your set's native resolution. You might want to use the component output if your set does not have HDMI, in which case the 05 should give you a better picture due to its better video DACs. There are many options. And these don't even include the audio options.
post #3218 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Jeff, I think most of us here aren't surprised by that video, but it was fun to watch. But don't post that over at the "ultra high end" section of AVS, they'll send out a hit man to get you. Those guys are pretty sensitive about their $1,000/ft cable.

I know I work with many of those guys. It is sad that all of the bad cables I have encountered have been in the high dollar category including speaker, interconnect and video cables. I have never found a high quality moderate or low priced cable to have problems.
post #3219 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by State guy View Post

I'm still completely lost on the audio side. What is the best setup for non-HDMI and a receiver that does not handle the new formats?

I don't own one of these players. But, it looks pretty straightforward.

You need to do the speaker setup. That's on p43 of the manual and it's limited to the number of speakers and whether they are large or small. You can also select whether to send full volume for all channels or set channel levels for each speaker. See p44. Full volume is probably right in most cases.

I think that's it. Whatever track you select on the disc will be played as PCM, converted to analog, and sent to your AVR for amplification. You will likely need to tell your AVR to add a 10db to 15db boost for sub.
post #3220 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by State guy View Post

Thanks for responding, but what does that mean? How do I set that up?

Yes, I am a dumbace.

If your receiver has 5.1 multichannel inputs, just match up the inputs with the multi-channel inputs on the player. Obviously you will need six separate cables, one for each speaker channel. Then, on the Blu-ray player, select Analog Output for audio selection.
post #3221 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

Waboman,

The 51/05 offer many setup choices and everyone will have their own preference. You might like Source Direct hooked up to an outboard scaler, or you might like Source Direct going straight to your set, so the set can deinterlace the video signal. Then, again, you might like the Auto mode, which will configure all signals to your set's native resolution. You might want to use the component output if your set does not have HDMI, in which case the 05 should give you a better picture due to its better video DACs. There are many options. And these don't even include the audio options.

Thanks Pres2play.

What I want is 1080/24p and to bitstream out. Unfortunately, I'm finding it unusually difficult to find these settings in the menu.

Also, I checked my FW, it's 1.00.
post #3222 of 30708
I intend to use the analog outputs since my AVR doesn't have HDMI for audio. My question is how much content out there utilizes 7.1? I admit, I'm a rookie with this stuff. But most DVD's I see show 5.1 only on the back. So whats the point of 7.1 if no content is out there?
post #3223 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdonnell View Post

I intend to use the analog outputs since my AVR doesn't have HDMI for audio. My question is how much content out there utilizes 7.1? I admit, I'm a rookie with this stuff. But most DVD's I see show 5.1 only on the back. So whats the point of 7.1 if no content is out there?

To get you to buy new gear.
post #3224 of 30708
Questions for 51 Blu-Ray and Pioneer Elite 05/07 owners, how do you like the combo.. I think I asked this question once before but can't find it anywhere... Also is there a firmware for the 51, and if so what is the best way to go about checking for it and downloading it of course! Thanks....
post #3225 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

I am sorry to hear this, but understand one thing you are not using the same settings that we are talking about.

No need to be sorry or testy since this is giving me the same results as using Deep Color and 4:4:4. I figure just to use 4:2:2 which removes the possibility of 4:4:4 doing something funky at some point. My previous point was merely a half jokingly remark to Bob that some people are not using Deep Color who have the 51FD.
post #3226 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I would say try both and see which one looks better.

The poster I was responding to said he was using 4:4:4 and the image wasn't looking right; so I suggested 4:2:2.
post #3227 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

Thanks Pres2play.

What I want is 1080/24p and to bitstream out. Unfortunately, I'm finding it unusually difficult to find these settings in the menu.

Also, I checked my FW, it's 1.00.



It's not labeled bitstream. See post 2879, p96
post #3228 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdonnell View Post

I intend to use the analog outputs since my AVR doesn't have HDMI for audio. My question is how much content out there utilizes 7.1? I admit, I'm a rookie with this stuff. But most DVD's I see show 5.1 only on the back. So whats the point of 7.1 if no content is out there?

Movies are mixed in 5.1 and must be remixed for 7.1 home release. That isn't done very often. But, you can also matrix 5.1 into 7.1 with signal processing such as PLIIx. Lots of people with 7.1 syetems rave about them.
post #3229 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

Which movies? I haven't experienced this anymore with the updates.

I know Batman Begins is one of them, someone else mentioned Ratatouille. I have heard it from quite a few people, so it must be a real glitch.
post #3230 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron S View Post

(edited 480i approach)

I think you have a couple of options for non-anamorphic letterbox DVDs on the 5080. One is to set the 51's "4:3 video out" setting to full, have the 51 ouput 480i and use the 5080 in zoom mode.

The other that seems to work is to have "4:3 video out" set to full, have the 51 upconvert to 1080 and use the 5080 in zoom. ( I think the zoom mode on the 5080 only does a vertical strecth when getting an HD format.)

thanks for the ideas (i have a 5010)

but even so, it's going to be unacceptable quality on zoom anyway, these are just bad transfers. i'll replace what i like, otherwise i'm just getting rid of them.
post #3231 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

I have not seen these new units yet, but you must use test patterns and measurement equipment to determine the correct audio and video settings.

I believe you would find cables are not a factor in most situations unless you have a long cable run, heavy cables or poor connectors. Here is a video on the subject http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDw2ZSDzlMw. There is quite a bit of marketing voodoo in this business designed to separate you from your money.

All I can say is that many of the current players can deliver perfect results. I do not see how these will be superior unless there is some feature you want. For the most part the current players are data transports that must handshake properly with displays. Most problems are caused when the data format is altered and done improperly. Things to be careful of are video/film detection, YCbCr to RGB, Bitstream to PCM and black level conversion.

Yes Jeff I do agree with you about what you are saying but what you are saying is right out of the book. And yes i do use "test patterns and measurement equipment" and yes I have a very good understanding of what your service is all about. So when you say "cables are not a factor in most situations" I agree. In one specific case that we both know about htwaits case. Are you saying he should be just fine using his 1.2 HDMI cables and his Denon A/V to pass the Video and I think audio from his source (in this case a 51) to his Denon A/V and then to his Kuro without any loss or degrading of video signal and audio (if the Denon is outputting audio) to his Kuro using any type of 1.2 HDMI cables and why I say 1.2 is because that is what his Denon is certified for. ? And please understand if you are quoting out of the book then refer to Chris (Pioneer) post an chart as a reference.

Also I agree with what you say about cables however the statement you make is a very broad "marketing voodoo in this business designed to separate you from your money." and a chic one at that. However I know all business and services are designed to get your money. Unless of course you are tax exempt.

Yes I would agree with you on your general statement here also. "Most problems are caused when the data format is altered and done improperly. Things to be careful of are video/film detection, YCbCr to RGB, Bitstream to PCM and black level conversion." Yes of course this can be the problem as we have seen many problems that at first were thought(by the owner) to be because of the 51/05 but they were not. But as you say the really problems that folks have is a lack of understand and if they had a very basic understanding like in your very basic statement here plus things like firmware updates they would be far better off. But I guess its easier to go on a forum like this and be told what your problem is. Or pay you your fee to help the user get what they think they want.

One other thing I think you can comment on.I read a post not long ago from a client (might have been yours) That the ISF calibrator was coming to do his thing however the Kuro that was to be worked on only had about 70 hours on it. I was always under the impression that a calibration should only take place after a few hundred hours of use. Ideally over 500 hours to 1000 hours.
post #3232 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

I know Batman Begins is one of them, someone else mentioned Ratatouille. I have heard it from quite a few people, so it must be a real glitch.

It was reported that Ratatouille has lip sync errors. However, I just finished watching this wonderful BD again and I had no errors (05 player). Ratatouille played perfectly. I guess I'll try Batman Begins tomorrow.

Speaking of Ratatouille, I really enjoy the way my house rumbles when playing the first kitchen scene. If it's been awhile, I recommend revisiting that scene (movie for that matter).

The good thing about testing the new player is revisiting these great films.
post #3233 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by briansemerick View Post

thanks for the ideas (i have a 5010)

but even so, it's going to be unacceptable quality on zoom anyway, these are just bad transfers. i'll replace what i like, otherwise i'm just getting rid of them.

I was thinking the same thing. Also, I have some movies that must be flipped over that I have to replace, like Seven and Goodfellas.
post #3234 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolmilo View Post

It was reported that Ratatouille has lip sync errors. However, I just finished watching this wonderful BD again and I had no errors (05 player). Ratatouille played perfectly. I guess I'll try Batman Begins tomorrow.

Yeah, I would assume with this type of glitch it is intermittent, and might require some specific combination of settings. i.e. it might only happen 50% of the time, it might only happen when bitstreaming, it might only happen when being decoded internally via PCM setting, etc. Just like the v1.0 "Top Gun" bug which was fixed in v1.02, this one likely does not happen every time.

So in order for this type of testing to be effective, we need for people to put the settings they did or did not get the lipsync glitch with, and then get around 20 reports of people who watched it all the way through.

I have heard a lot of reports of this problem on v1.02 (like 5+), though, so I know it is a real one with v1.02.
post #3235 of 30708
I think these are all the bugs that have been reported to date with v1.02, am I missing any?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...97&postcount=7
post #3236 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

Yeah, I would assume with this type of glitch it is intermittent, and might require some specific combination of settings. i.e. it might only happen 50% of the time, it might only happen when bitstreaming, it might only happen when being decoded internally via PCM setting, etc. Just like the v1.0 "Top Gun" bug which was fixed in v1.02, this one likely does not happen every time.

So in order for this type of testing to be effective, we need for people to put the settings they did or did not get the lipsync glitch with, and then get around 20 reports of people who watched it all the way through.

I have heard a lot of reports of this problem on v1.02 (like 5+), though, so I know it is a real one with v1.02.

In my case, I am bitstreaming the 05 to my Integra DTC-9.8 Pre. The 05 is 1.02 and the Pre is 1.08. I have lipsync enabled on the Integra. I have HDMI set to high speed on the 05. It might be a good idea if we had a standard form or list of questions to complete before posting problems. There are so many variables.
post #3237 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolmilo View Post

In my case, I am bitstreaming the 05 to my Integra DTC-9.8 Pre. The 05 is 1.02 and the Pre is 1.08. I have lipsync enabled on the Integra. I have HDMI set to high speed on the 05. It might be a good idea if we had a standard form or list of questions to complete before posting problems. There are so many variables.

Yeah, with this sort of thing there can be even more than the many you listed. Like, what if the lipsync issue has something to do with the video processing in the player? Does it happen when set to 1080p, or when set to Source Direct, or both?

There really are too many variables to control for a lipsync problem. Best we can do is try to pin down the most likely ones.

I would say:
Bitstream or PCM?
HDMI audio, Analog 5.1, or Optical/Coax audio?
Source Direct or 1080p/1080i/720p?

Are good ones to check out, especially by those who got the bug. Of course it could always be due to some BD-J issue in which case there is no isolating the cause Fun.
post #3238 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfepack View Post

Does this player output the lossless stuff via the component or just through HDMI? If not is there a 1.3 compliant HDMI splitter out there where I can run the HDMI to the splitter and have one go right to my kuro and the other to my receiver which I dont think handles the deep color (Yammy RX-V3800)?

Yes on the splitter. You can find them pretty reasonable on eBay. I was skeptical at first until I bought one, but it's worked like a champ.

I've been hesitant to post my setup since it's a little out of the norm and I wanted to make sure it was working properly first. I bought my 51 about two and a half weeks ago. It had the .80 demo firmware on it when I hooked it up so I updated it to 1.0 before I ever played a disc in it. I updated it to 1.02 yesterday without a hitch.

My setup is:

51FD > 3' 24AWG Monoprice HDMI 1.3a cat.2 cable > 2-Port HDMI Ditribution Amplified Splitter (HDCP 1.3 Compliant):

First splitter output (video) > 6' 24AWG Monoprice HDMI 1.3a cat.2 cable > PDP-5080

Second splitter output (audio) > 6' 24AWG Monoprice HDMI 1.3a cat.2 cable > Harman Kardon AVR 745

51FD settings are:

HDMI High-Speed :On
HDMI Color Space :Auto
HDMI Audio Out :PCM
HDMI Control :Off

Video is set to "Source Direct" and "Pioneer PDP"

I've had to use the splitter because the 745 is only HDMI 1.1 compliant and I needed the 51 to decode the latest lossless codecs and pass them on as PCM. I've been using this setup since day one and have watched several SD-DVD's and a few Blu-rays and have had zero issues with the audio or the video. In fact, the only issue I've had at all with this player is when I've paused one of the "Heroes Season 2" blu-ray discs and left it paused until the Universal screen saver comes up I've had to stop the disc and start over. I believe this has already been mentioned as an issue in this thread.
post #3239 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Thanks for the help. I don't have the player yet so all the settings are floating around in my disorganized head.

I'm assuming that a Blu-ray recorded as video like "Planet Earth" would be output in 1080p@60fps using Source Direct in my setup.

With a 60" Kuro the better SD transfers have been looking pretty good. I'm not sure how they would look on a 100"+ screen.

Are you using a receiver or a preamp with 1.2a HDMI?

I would think that the "Planet Earth" Blu-ray is 1080i and the Kuro will display it as 1080p@60fps.
post #3240 of 30708
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

I can understand you wanting to use your ISF calibration Video/Audio because of your investment in what you paid urm. And for the most part urm calibration will probable work ok after you maximize your system. But you will not get the best out of your system not using high speed and a 1.2 HDMI A/V. That goes for video and probably audio. And why I say audio is because I think there is a fair chance that the Audio from the 51/05 will be a little off from your audio calibration. So why not just run your audio to your denon with analog cables and your video directly to your Kuro using a 1.3 cat 2 HDMI cable. And the total cost should be if you use monoprice maybe $35. And if anybody can think of a better and cheaper way to maximize your system for video I would sure like to know. But talk it over with the wife first.
btw even if you keep your chain the same as it is now your ISF settings for video and maybe audio will be off because of your new 51/05. And I think your isf guy posted that something like a new BD player will cause your setting to be off from what they were.



Did UMR say that? He told me I should at least have a DVD player if I was not going to be able to get the 51fd in time.
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