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Magnavox H2160MW9 with 160GB HDD - Virtual Clone of Philips 3576H? - Page 3  

post #61 of 3505
Quote:
Originally Posted by crabboy View Post

Then go with the DTVpal. Program guide included, built in timer. Around $60 (before coupon).
Actually, as I understand it, the DTVpal is identical to the TR-40cra. I couldn't get a TR-40cra however, since it is sold by Dish Network and we have their satellite service.


The DTVPal and the TR-40 are both made and sold by Dish Network, and they do NOT refuse sales to people using their satellite service. (Some of their execs will choke if they hear that CSRs are telling customers they can't buy a TR-40.)

Don't take no for an answer. Call back and demand they sell you one.

If that doesn't sit well with you, try here-
http://www.cheapdigitalconverters.co...f67b26e05a4f97
post #62 of 3505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

So are you saying then that the PQ of both units is basically the same? Even other than the darkness?

Yes, flat out even as far as I can tell. The darker OTA picture is evident on both models. My settings look like this for the HDMI video.

Format settings are RGB or YCbCr, I'm using RGB, overall picutre seems slightly clearer. Also, the YCbCr setting seems to create the appearnce of a light fog on the screen, a faded look which I dont like.

RGB-Range setting choices are standard and enhanced. I'm using enhanced. This is a double edged sword but an easy choice for me. Standard makes the OTA PQ a lot better by lifting the dark areas out of the picture and creating a much closer comparison to what I'm used to seeing thru the ATSC tuner on both my Sony TV and Directv box. The 2160 and 3576 still dont have the standard PQ of a good ATSC tuner, but using standard over enhaced setting in the RGB range helps its PQ noticeably. My main thing is using E1 where I have my Directv receiver connected. Setting the RGB range to Enhanced presents a better overall PQ from the Directv HD box IMO. Turning the Enhanced mode off seems to have the same effect as selecting YCbCr, it creates a slight haze or foggy look to the PQ.

I'm gonna try dubbing a show in the 2160 in just a moment and then see if the 3576H will finalize it, at Wajo's request
post #63 of 3505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

So are you saying then that the PQ of both units is basically the same? Even other than the darkness?

Yes, flat out even as far as I can tell. The darker OTA picture is evident on both models. My settings look like this for the HDMI video.

Format settings are RGB or YCbCr, I'm using RGB, overall picutre seems slightly clearer. Also, the YCbCr setting seems to create the appearnce of a light fog on the screen, a faded look which I dont like.

RGB-Range setting choices are standard and enhanced. I'm using enhanced. This is a double edged sword but an easy choice for me. Standard makes the OTA PQ a lot better by lifting the dark areas out of the picture and creating a much closer comparison to what I'm used to seeing thru the ATSC tuner on both my Sony TV and Directv box. The 2160 and 3576 still dont have the standard PQ of a good ATSC tuner, but using standard over enhaced setting in the RGB range helps its PQ noticeably. My main thing is using E1 where I have my Directv receiver connected. Setting the RGB range to Enhanced presents a better overall PQ from the Directv HD box IMO. Turning the Enhanced mode off seems to have the same effect as selecting YCbCr, it creates a slight haze or foggy look to the PQ.

I'm gonna try dubbing a show from HDD to DVD in the 2160 in just a moment and then see if the 3576H will finalize it, at Wajo's request
post #64 of 3505
Thread Starter 
Arkyman, did you tweak any of your TV settings for either unit, esp. if your TV allows custom settings for each input? I had to spend some time in doing that for my 3575's on my LCD TVs, even going to the LCD Forum to see what other people were using for custom settings.
post #65 of 3505
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastrof View Post

The DTVPal and the TR-40 are both made and sold by Dish Network, and they do NOT refuse sales to people using their satellite service. (Some of their execs will choke if they hear that CSRs are telling customers they can't buy a TR-40.)

Don't take no for an answer. Call back and demand they sell you one.

If that doesn't sit well with you, try here-
http://www.cheapdigitalconverters.co...f67b26e05a4f97

Clarification: they didn't refuse to sell me one. They just made it so difficult that I bought 2 DTVpals elsewhere. From what I've read here, I'm not the only one.
Thanks for the link. Maybe others won't have to deal with DishNetwork's BS.
post #66 of 3505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkyman View Post

Yes, flat out even as far as I can tell. The darker OTA picture is evident on both models . . . The 2160 and 3576 still dont have the standard PQ of a good ATSC tuner . . .

Ahhh, nuts.
post #67 of 3505
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Arkyman, did you tweak any of your TV settings for either unit, esp. if your TV allows custom settings for each input? I had to spend some time in doing that for my 3575's on my LCD TVs, even going to the LCD Forum to see what other people were using for custom settings.

Yes, but it was a quick set when I did it. I need to take more time and do it right and look for the best settings. My Sony does allow custom settings to each input, 8 inputs on the tv.

I got half of the earlier dubbing task done. We are about to get some bad weather spawned by the Hurricane in the Gulf, a neighbor came up earlier and needed me to help him haul his hay into the barn before it rained. I'm a farmer here in Arkansas, down here all us neighbors still help each other with everything we can, we lend a helping hand

Anyway, back to the dubbing. I dubbed a show to a DVD-RW on the 2160. It asked if I wanted to finalize and I declined. Took it to the 3576H. When I put the DVD in, I selected disc menu, it only gave me the option to erase the disk, all the other options such as finalize had a white background and were not accessible. I successfully erased the disk on the 3576H. Tomorrow I will try to burn a DVD in the 3576, leave it unfinalized and see if I can do anything other than erase it in the 2160. Hope this info is helping you all, I'm kind of learning as I go myself, so most of the task anyone requests is a fun little experiment for me and actually is helping me learn what I can and cant do on both recorders a whole lot faster than I'd probably learn all of it on the norm.
post #68 of 3505
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkyman View Post

Anyway, back to the dubbing. I dubbed a show to a DVD-RW on the 2160. It asked if I wanted to finalize and I declined. Took it to the 3576H. When I put the DVD in, I selected disc menu, it only gave me the option to erase the disk, all the other options such as finalize had a white background and were not accessible. I successfully erased the disk on the 3576H. Tomorrow I will try to burn a DVD in the 3576, leave it unfinalized and see if I can do anything other than erase it in the 2160.

No timer rec programs were set in the 3576 when you tried to Finalize?
post #69 of 3505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Ahhh, nuts.

yeah, I know I was a little disappointed at the somewhat downgraded PQ in these recorders. On the other hand, I'm glad they are ATSC equiped. I would be more upset if all I had was the recorders to receive digital OTA. However, my tv atsc tuner and the one in the Directv receiver are pretty good tuners and display very good PQ. I have on split of my OTA run to the Directv Recievers ATSC tuner and then the Receiver runs to the Recorder and displays on E1. So if its quality that I want to record, I can just use the feed from the directv receiver to the recorder instead of the recorders ATSC tuner
post #70 of 3505
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkyman View Post

yeah, I know I was a little disappointed at the somewhat downgraded PQ in these recorders. On the other hand, I'm glad they are ATSC equiped. I would be more upset if all I had was the recorders to receive digital OTA. However, my tv atsc tuner and the one in the Directv receiver are pretty good tuners and display very good PQ. I have on split of my OTA run to the Directv Recievers ATSC tuner and then the Receiver runs to the Recorder and displays on E1. So if its quality that I want to record, I can just use the feed from the directv receiver to the recorder instead of the recorders ATSC tuner

Are you comparing a DirecTV HD receiver/STB tuner with the 3576 and 2160 SDTV tuner?... the 3576 and 2160 tuner and inputs downrez to SDTV/DVD std 480i.
post #71 of 3505
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

No timer rec programs were set in the 3576 when you tried to Finalize?

Unfortunately No I read about the timer record/finalize conflict in the manual before tried it. I thought I might ought to brush up on my dubbing skills before I went thru with the experiment. But dont worry, I will definitely try all of this again in a few days when I get time just to make 100% sure that what I'm relaying to you all is correct.
post #72 of 3505
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Are you comparing a DirecTV HD receiver/STB tuner with the 3576 and 2160 SDTV tuner?

Yes, the ATSC tuner in the Directv H20-100. My comparison is only comparing standard def PQ. I know my TV and the Directv tuner can display standard and High Definition siganls. Just to make myself clear, I am "Not" comparing HD PQ to the 2160 and 3576's standard PQ. Only comparing those standard PQ's to the standard PQ that my tv displays and the Directv tuner displays. A lot of shows and all of the local news here in Arkansas is still done in standard def.
post #73 of 3505
I must say, after examining each channel further on the ATSC tuner of the 2160, I am pleased with its overall PQ performance. I know the tuner is standard only, but for some reason, anything being broadcast in HD seems to be displayed in correct format for the 16x9 screen and the PQ is a lot better than a standard PQ. I was just watching NBC Today on 4.1 thru the 2160 tuner, its displaying a very nice picture. I feel the picture I'm seeing is the equivilant of the digital to analog converter boxes now being sold for digital conversions. I picked up two of the Insignias at Best Buy a while back. I had it hooked to one of the AV inputs on my tv for a while just out of curiosity to see how it compared. It displays a surprisingly awesome picture when fed an HD signal. The tuner in the 2160 and 3576H seem to be doing a nice conversion here as well. I've taken numerous pics of different ATSC channels and Directv channels thru E1 and will start uploading just as soon as I can find my darn USB cable that hooks the camera to the computer
post #74 of 3505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkyman View Post

Yes, the ATSC tuner in the Directv H20-100. My comparison is only comparing standard def PQ. I know my TV and the Directv tuner can display standard and High Definition siganls. Just to make myself clear, I am "Not" comparing HD PQ to the 2160 and 3576's standard PQ. Only comparing those standard PQ's to the standard PQ that my tv displays and the Directv tuner displays.

If you have the DirecTV line outputs feeding into the DVDR E1 inputs then that is, by definition, an SD signal since the recorders can only accept a 480i signal. So a nice direct comparison of the tuners would be to tune the same HD digital channel on the DVDR and the DirecTV tuner and then record a couple minutes from each one then play them back in sequence and compare. The DVDR tuner will downrez the HD broadcast to 480i before recording and the DirecTV tuner will also downrez the HD broadcast to 480i before sending it to the E1 input. It puts both tuners on an equal footing. If the issue is just the Funai tuner in the DVDR then the E1 recording from the DirecTV receiver should look markedly better -- sharper and no black level issues. If it doesn't, well I for one would like to know.

Give both tuners the benefit of the doubt and use the highest quality recording mode (I believe it's called HQ).
post #75 of 3505
Pics from the ATSC tuner, HDMI 1080p upscale from 2160 ATSC tuner to tv. First pic is 4.1 HD thru the standard 2160 tuner and the secodn is a standard broadcast 4x3 on 16.1
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post #76 of 3505
These images are of our CBS affilliate KTHV 11.1 & 11.2 out of Little Rock Arkansas. Pics are from 11.2 where they run news and weather 24/7. This is displayed as a 4x3 on my tv when viewing thru the sonys ATSC tuner or the Directv H20 box. The ATSC in the 2160 displays it across the entire screen and does it without any noticeable strectching.
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post #77 of 3505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

If you have the DirecTV line outputs feeding into the DVDR E1 inputs then that is, by definition, an SD signal since the recorders can only accept a 480i signal. So a nice direct comparison of the tuners would be to tune the same HD digital channel on the DVDR and the DirecTV tuner and then record a couple minutes from each one then play them back in sequence and compare. The DVDR tuner will downrez the HD broadcast to 480i before recording and the DirecTV tuner will also downrez the HD broadcast to 480i before sending it to the E1 input. It puts both tuners on an equal footing. If the issue is just the Funai tuner in the DVDR then the E1 recording from the DirecTV receiver should look markedly better -- sharper and no black level issues. If it doesn't, well I for one would like to know.

Give both tuners the benefit of the doubt and use the highest quality recording mode (I believe it's called HQ).

I guess I'm not being clear enough when writing this stuff. What you said is exactly what I have done. I'm posting pics now to maybe help more. You are correct, I feed the directv via S-vid(480i) but where the PQ difference is being made is when these two units upscale thru the HDMI to the tv, it producing much better PQ than one would anticipate. When I watch a football game on NFL Network in HD, I can flip back and forth from Vid 6 where the 2160 is upscaling the 480i to 1080p and vid 7 where my directv is hooked HDMI also and getting the true HD feed. There is some clarity differences, not much but some. The true HD feed looks shinnier or more glossy. A good comparison would be your average good paint job on a truck as compared to a glossy lacquer finish on a show rig. They both look very nice, but one does stand out over the other. Here are more pics. Remember, to get these pics up I had to downsize them. They are a little less than the original and the originals arent as clear as watching this stuff in my living room, so all in all the 2160 is doing a nice job with the ATSC and E1 displays. The first price is right pic is from 11.1 Kthv and the second is from a DNS-NY channel on Directv thru the E1 input
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post #78 of 3505
More pics. These are from NFL Network HD thru E1 on the 2160.
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post #79 of 3505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkyman View Post

I guess I'm not being clear enough when writing this stuff.

No that's not it. I was in the middle of composing my post when you posted yours.

I'm starting to think I'm just going to have to buy one of these and see first hand how it looks on my 50" plasma vs. a Zenith CECB running into my Panasonic E-85. As long as I can return it to the local w-mart if it is unacceptable.
post #80 of 3505
The first pic is the last one I took of NFLNetwork HD. I believe this is the QB out of Kentucky, Jarred Lorenzon. The Second two pics are of ESPNHD Sportscenter covering the shooting of the Jacksonville Jaguars Offensive Lineman Richard Collier who is listed in critcal condition this morning.
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post #81 of 3505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

No that's not it. I was in the middle of composing my post when you posted yours.

I'm hoping these pics will help explain a little better what I'm seeing and what I'm trying to covey here in the thread. I'm one of the few who have both units so I'm just trying to help everyone out, sometimes I'm not good at writing what I'm trying to say
post #82 of 3505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

No that's not it. I was in the middle of composing my post when you posted yours.

I'm starting to think I'm just going to have to buy one of these and see first hand how it looks on my 50" plasma vs. a Zenith CECB running into my Panasonic E-85. As long as I can return it to the local w-mart if it is unacceptable.

Well I'm doing the best I can across a forum, if you were in my living room we could understand each other a lot more because we'd both be seeing it live from the unit to the tv. If what I'm posting is not enough info, then you should go ahead and buy one for yourself to try. Heck, I bought both units and I'm keeping and using both of them. Better be careful, you might want more than one

Last set of Pics here. 1st is CNNHD, 2nd is USAHD showing Tennis and the last one is AMC standard showing Hamburger Hill. All thru E1
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post #83 of 3505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkyman View Post

Well I'm doing the best I can across a forum, if you were in my living room we could understand each other a lot more because we'd both be seeing it live from the unit to the tv. If what I'm posting is not enough info, then you should go ahead and buy one for yourself to try.

No, you are misunderstanding me. I'm not criticizing what you are posting and we all appreciate the info you are providing. I was more or less thinking aloud. Given the variety of peoples displays, it's not surprising we get a range of opinions wrt PQ. Sometimes you just have to see first hand what it looks like on your own display with the source inputs you use.
post #84 of 3505
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Given the variety of peoples displays, it's not surprising we get a range of opinions wrt PQ. Sometimes you just have to see first hand what it looks like on your own display with the source inputs you use.

Truer words were never spoken... everyone's system and tastes are different... don't listen to anything ANYONE says about PQ in their system, including me... best to buy a unit, that has the FEATURES you want, from a place with easy return and see if you can live with what YOU see!

It ain't rocket surgery!
post #85 of 3505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

No, you are misunderstanding me. I'm not criticizing what you are posting and we all appreciate the info you are providing. I was more or less thinking aloud. Given the variety of peoples displays, it's not surprising we get a range of opinions wrt PQ. Sometimes you just have to see first hand what it looks like on your own display with the source inputs you use.

Its no big deal I didnt take it as critcism at all, I was mainly getting frustrated at myself for not relaying the info better than I did. I felt like instead of helping you I was confusing you and that was not my intention.

BTW, did the pics help at all, could you all tell anything about it? Unfortunately from live tv to the camera, to the computer, to the down rez and upload, just doesnt look as good as the original starting point
post #86 of 3505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkyman View Post

Its no big deal I didnt take it as critcism at all, I was mainly getting frustrated at myself for not relaying the info better than I did. I felt like instead of helping you I was confusing you and that was not my intention.

BTW, did the pics help at all, could you all tell anything about it? Unfortunately from live the tv to the camera, to the computer, to the down rez and upload, just doesnt look as good as the original starting point

Thanks for the comments and the pics. I may be springing for one of these before long. I watch (and record) a lot of OTA, but I also have a DISH setup as well. I'll be either getting one of these, or a DISH HD - DVR. Just looking at cost factors.

I have both an Pilips 3575 and the earlier Mag 80GB hard drive model. Other than the dark pic from the tuner, I'm happy with both.

Rick
post #87 of 3505
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickie View Post

Thanks for the comments and the pics. I may be springing for one of these before long. I watch (and record) a lot of OTA, but I also have a DISH setup as well. I'll be either getting one of these, or a DISH HD - DVR. Just looking at cost factors.

I have both an Pilips 3575 and the earlier Mag 80GB hard drive model. Other than the dark pic from the tuner, I'm happy with both.

Rick

Glad to help, good luck in your search. Both the 3576H and the H2160 are very nice units IMO, I've been extremely happy with both so far. I favor the 2160 over the 3576 because of the live time shift buffer which the 3576 does not have.
post #88 of 3505
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by subeluvr View Post

The manufacturer of the Magnavox is Funai and not Phillips as the Magnavox logo might infer.

Walmart will sell you a modestly priced extended warranty for the Phillips but not for the Magnavox.

Philips (Nethrelands) and Funai (Japan) are a "team" on many electronic products and they also produce the Philips 3575/3576 in China. Magnavox is one of Philips many "brand" names and they often allow others to use the name, for a couple of bucks/Yen/Yuan or whatever.

Walmart sells a 2-yr ext. warranty for the Magnavox (under "Accessories").
post #89 of 3505
Can Magnavox maschine play double layer DVDs ? Also, did anyone test whether it cannot play DiVX Dvds ?

Thanks.
post #90 of 3505
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Philips (Nethrelands) and Funai (Japan) are a "team" on many electronic products and they also produce the Philips 3575/3576 in China. Magnavox is one of Philips many "brand" names and they often allow others to use the name, for a couple of bucks/Yen/Yuan or whatever.


Hey Wajo. Do I get the sense you're itching to pick up one of these?
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