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Mitsubishi WD-XX735,736 and 835 Settings and Tweaks - Page 3

post #61 of 808
Thanks for the encouragement. I think it is a good investment since, once you know it, you can use it on any tv you buy or if you get a new bulb etc.

So in your opinion what is more striking:

Out of Box ->DVE HD color filter (which I did and think it looks alot better/fantastic)

DVE HD-> eye One??

I also wonder how to "calibrate" for the XBOX360. I have thought about this. Most studies use LCD monitors in the PC color scale etc that are probably overly bright, lack good black, and blow out white. The "GAME" mode built into the set acutally looked great out of the box (the ONLY one of the presets that looked good). For example, the shadow detail in Halo 3 was present with their wacky settings. GAME mode also restricts the Service menu - even the keystone correction!!!!
post #62 of 808
MadsenD,

How would I open the .chc file. i would like to see your settings. i have the same set as you. I am unable to open that file
post #63 of 808
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by erios79 View Post

MadsenD,

How would I open the .chc file. i would like to see your settings. i have the same set as you. I am unable to open that file

You need ColorHCFR installed in order to view it.

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorim...tup_v2_0_1.exe
post #64 of 808
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjchmura View Post

Thanks for the encouragement. I think it is a good investment since, once you know it, you can use it on any tv you buy or if you get a new bulb etc.

So in your opinion what is more striking:

Out of Box ->DVE HD color filter (which I did and think it looks alot better/fantastic)

DVE HD-> eye One??

I also wonder how to "calibrate" for the XBOX360. I have thought about this. Most studies use LCD monitors in the PC color scale etc that are probably overly bright, lack good black, and blow out white. The "GAME" mode built into the set acutally looked great out of the box (the ONLY one of the presets that looked good). For example, the shadow detail in Halo 3 was present with their wacky settings. GAME mode also restricts the Service menu - even the keystone correction!!!!

I think it looks much better now after the calibration with an i1. I could never get even close to where I could with an i1. So I guess maybe my OCD was satisified when I knew for sure they were close to correct.

As far as calibrating your 360, do you have the HD-DVD add on?
post #65 of 808
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjchmura View Post

So in your opinion what is more striking:

Out of Box ->DVE HD color filter (which I did and think it looks alot better/fantastic)

DVE HD-> eye One??

I had calibrated things with just the PerfectColor, and user menu Tint and Color sliders with filters in DVE but I wasn't very happy with the result. Magenta seemed to be way out of whack (noticable on people's lips mostly) and greens and (to a lesser extent) yellows appeared to be too fluorescent.

After finishing calibration with the Eye-One all those problems are gone now, and the shadow detail is quite a bit better after getting the gamma curve adjusted better. It did take some time fiddling with the settings and dialing everything in, but was worth it in the end.
post #66 of 808
as far as calibrating the xbox 360 goes I believe games are using the rgb color space. I'm going to calibrate for rec 709 though as that's what the xbox is used with since it is a video game machine and not a computer. since I dont have the hddvd add on I am going to just hook my ps3 up to the port i use for the xbox and calibrate the input that way than cross my fingers and hope it all matches.
post #67 of 808
After reading the professional calibration report that borg.cube posted, I got the incentive to try and raise my value for ftL. I’m pleased to report that I was able to get an ftL value over 30 with an acceptable gamma curve. I had previously reported that I couldn’t get over 20 for ftL with a 2.2 gamma.

ksbarnz, I'm sorry to hear about your TV problem.
post #68 of 808
Thread Starter 
[quote=
ksbarnz, I'm sorry to hear about your TV problem.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, looks like the wife and I are going to have to find our entertainment the old fashioned way for a week or so until the part comes in!
post #69 of 808
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksbarnz View Post

Thanks, looks like the wife and I are going to have to find our entertainment the old fashioned way for a week or so until the part comes in!

You mean go back to CRT!!

Seggers
post #70 of 808
I have a new 60735 that was a Mits replacement for a 57732 that they couldn't fix, light engine problem. The 57732 had perfect geometry but the 60735 has a slight hour glass effect. Is there a service menu to fix this? If so, how do I get to it? And once I get there, how is it used?

Thanks,
Mike
post #71 of 808
does anyone know if the 835 TVs are compatible with the full RGB setting on the PlayStation 3? I read all 50 some pages in the PlayStation area but didn't find anything specific to this TV. It "looks" better in full rather than limited but this could just be fooling my eye.

I ask because I just got the Digital video essentials blue-ray and don't want to calibrate in the wrong mode. I wish I could go the route of using the sensor to calibrate but since I have to rely on my mom and dad to do stuff for me I'm going to have to be satisfied using the disk and the remote. It's very difficult being obsessive-compulsive and having to rely on others =).

Gimpygod
post #72 of 808
if you are going to use the ps3 for movies than go with limited.
post #73 of 808
Finished calibrating my WD 73835 tonight!

Got to get to bed tonight and head out early in AM for my truck driving job - be back next Tues. and will post results then.

Was a bit challenging at times but everything came out OK. Greyscale was really good, all my colors except yellow were close to ideal coordinates. Gamma is low but picture looks fine.

Adjusted Blu Ray input - didn't realize you have to do each input seperately.

Do you need to transfer your service menu adjustments to the other inputs or just the ones from the Mits video menu (like contrast, brightness,'perfect color' etc.)?

Also where would 'perfect tint' adjustments come into use? Must have missed something.

Anyway have a good week and thanks for any input.
post #74 of 808
I remember reading a while back that if you unplug your TV in either the "power saving" or "fast mode" (I can't remembe) from the global service menu that you can LOOSE ALL YOUR SETTINGS.

Is this true? I need to unplug it to move it/add a new Onkyo 606.

Btw, I have decided to go with eye-one Ordered yesterday so should have it mon or tues
post #75 of 808
billyboygolf, Any changes made in the user menu apply to that input only. Any changes made in the service menu are global (apply to all inputs).
“Perfect tint” allows you to move the colors on a different axis than “perfect color”. The 835 series allows you make all your primary and secondary color adjustments from the user menu.
post #76 of 808
Sjchmura, I hope we don’t loose all the service menu settings if the TV looses power. If we did, however, it wouldn’t be too difficult to change them back. It would only take a few minutes if you have them recorded elsewhere.
Congratulations on your i1 purchase. I’m sure you’ll appreciate it.
post #77 of 808
Quote:


“Perfect tint” allows you to move the colors on a different axis than “perfect color”. The 835 series allows you make all your primary and secondary color adjustments from the user menu.

Actually, you cant make all the necessary color changes from the user menu. you can only effect gain and hue from the perfectcolor and perfectint settings. saturation must be controlled from the service menu. the standard color control will effect saturation but it does so with all primarys at the same time.

Quote:


it wouldn’t be too difficult to change them back. It would only take a few minutes if you have them recorded elsewhere.

this is only partially true. if you loos your settings than re input them they will likely be off this time . they may be closer but you will still have to recalibrate to some extent. the values in the service menu don't lock a color parameter to one specific point. it doesn't work that way.

On the fast power up mode you will not lose your settings if you unplug the set. for how long, i don't know.
post #78 of 808
Quote:
Originally Posted by cid67 View Post

Actually, you cant make all the necessary color changes from the user menu. you can only effect gain and hue from the perfectcolor and perfectint settings. saturation must be controlled from the service menu. the standard color control will effect saturation but it does so with all primarys at the same time.

Please explain the difference between chroma gain and saturation. Aren't they both controlling the amount of a particular color on a luminance level?
post #79 of 808
Cid67, I’m sorry to disagree with you but with the exception of the gray scale adjustments I made all my primary and secondary color corrections from the user menu (perfect color and perfect tint). I had no problems. I suppose I could have used the service menu but 835 models provide perfect tint, which makes the job a little easier. Why not use it?
Why do you think redoing the service menu values from a recorded list isn’t valid? I’ve done it and it worked fine.
post #80 of 808
Quote:
Originally Posted by vandu View Post

Why do you think redoing the service menu values from a recorded list isn’t valid? I’ve done it and it worked fine.

Agreed, how is it possible for the settings (in any of the menus) to not be deterministic? They would have to be pulling in some source of randomness for the output to not be deterministic which just doesn't make any sense for configuration settings. Now if the hardware changed, or a software upgrade of some other piece of the environment changed it's possible that the same set of settings would not have the same effect.

If the environment doesn't change, and you are using the same set of input values for each of the menu settings I fully expect the display output to be the same as it was prior to the values being reset. If this is not true it is most definitely a bug in the software.
post #81 of 808
Anyone had their 835 ISF 'tweaked' by a BB (Geek Squad) tech? Were they any good?

Or anyone recommend a decent company in the Buffalo/WNY area?

Cheeky I know.

Seggers
post #82 of 808
Quote:
Cid67, I’m sorry to disagree with you but with the exception of the gray scale adjustments I made all my primary and secondary color corrections from the user menu (perfect color and perfect tint). I had no problems. I suppose I could have used the service menu but 835 models provide perfect tint, which makes the job a little easier. Why not use it?
Why do you think redoing the service menu values from a recorded list isn’t valid? I’ve done it and it worked fine.
clearly you need to read some more about color science. there are three characteristics that define any color. they are gain saturation and hue. with perfectcolor you have gain. with perfectint you have hue but without the service menu you don't have saturation. as i said earlier you can use the color control to adjust saturation but it only works on the colors at the same time so unless all your colors are the same in saturation adjusting for one color with the color control will throw off the other colors.

gain is how bright the color is. saturation is how rich the color is. for example a very low saturation will have less color in it and get closer to grey the lower you go. hue is how accurate the color is. a inacurate hue will shift the color toward another color making it less pure. for example if red had an hue shifted toward green it would apear more yellow than it should.

you dont have to believe me on all this if you don't want to, its your color accuracy that will suffer not mine. I'm willing to bet my delta e for colors is closer than yours . the reason, i use saturation as well as gain and hue.

you asked why i use the service menu gain and hue. well, I use the service menu because in may cases it will allow you to hit measurements that are in between the adjustments you can make with perfectint and perfectcolor.

I said that you cant use the same settings to get back to a calibration you did earlier because that's what my eye one is telling me. its not far off but its off. so if you calibrate than change your settings than go back you will likely have to tweak it to some extent to get it right again. this is my experience at least.

heres some color hcfr data of to compair against yours. be aware that when interpreting data its best to look at delta e and not just look at graphs.

 

wd-65835 calibration.zip 3.9423828125k . file
post #83 of 808
Quote:
Originally Posted by cid67 View Post

gain is how bright the color is. saturation is how rich the color is. for example a very low saturation will have less color in it and get closer to grey the lower you go. hue is how accurate the color is. a inacurate hue will shift the color toward another color making it less pure. for example if red had an hue shifted toward green it would apear more yellow than it should.

Your definitions need some explanation. I agree about low saturation getting closer to grey. But isn't also true that low saturation can also get closer to white, which is similar to your definition of gain being how bright the color is? If you look at chromaticity definitions, there are only two elements that define a color. The RGB gains control the luminance of the image and need to be adjusted to produce the desired color temperature of white over the entire range from black to white. PerfectColor and PerfectTint control the chroma saturation and purity.
post #84 of 808
Cid67, I won’t pretend to be an expert on this but my understanding is gray scale calibration sets the gain. Gain is controlled by RGBHighEnd, when you calibrate the gray scale. This is all accomplished in the service menu. Once you have your gray scale calibrated, you don’t need to go back into the service menu on the 835s because you have perfect tint. You can move the primary and secondary color points on the CIE diagram with perfect color and perfect tint. You can also do it in the service menu but it’s a little more labor.
Your delta E is very good but that was accomplished during your gray scale calibration. All that I am trying to say is once my gray scale was calibrated I didn’t have to go back into the service menu. Perfect color and perfect tint moved the points on the CIE diagram and had no impact on delta E.
post #85 of 808
once my greyscale was calibrated my colors delta e was in the 30 to 40 range for most of them and the cie chart looked quite close. it was gain for colors that brought it in line so from what i can gather the greyscale did not define gain for the colors.

Quote:


But isn't also true that low saturation can also get closer to white, which is similar to your definition of gain being how bright the color is

no because gain doesn't actually change the color so gain would never make the color white just brighter or more ftl.per color.

from what i understand saturation would not make a color white in this instance because it is a measurement of how far the color is saturated from d65. at its lowest point it would be d65.

I am no expert on this ether and i will be perfectly willing to concede that i am wrong but I would like to here from an expert first. in fact if i am wrong i would like to know as a better understanding of this will only benefit my calibration

this guide is what i based much of my understanding of the cms on maybe i need to re read it or missed something.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536
post #86 of 808
Quote:
Originally Posted by cid67 View Post


this guide is what i based much of my understanding of the cms on maybe i need to re read it or missed something.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536

Yes, this explanation is for those sets that do not have user settings of individual colors or a color management system (CMS). In the Mits parlance, PerfectColor, PerfectTint.
post #87 of 808
well just because Mitsubishi has some control over the cms in the user menu doesn't mean that the concept shouldn't apply. the guide also clearly defines the gain(lightness) (luminance), saturation and hue that I referred to earlier that was stated to be untrue. the only thing I can see that doesn't apply in this guide is getting your measurement for the secondarys right by adjusting the primarys do to the color wheel on the Mitsubishi containing secondary colors, at least as far as i can tell. on what verifiable information do you state that this guide is only for those that dont have some some user menu control over cms as well as control of cms in the service menu, or as you said but I cant believe you meant, those that have a CMS period. this guide is for users with a cms.

I dont mean to be rude but your argument seems to be getting more ridiculous to me in light of the fact that the very guide i referred to seems to be debunking many of you arguments but all you can do is claim the whole guide doesn't apply. at the bottom of the guide it clearly list a reference to the 2008 Mitsubishi diamond having a fully functional cms and this does imply that the guide should be considered with these sets.
post #88 of 808
Quote:
Originally Posted by cid67 View Post


I dont mean to be rude but your argument seems to be getting more ridiculous to me in light of the fact that the very guide i referred to seems to be debunking many of you arguments but all you can do is claim the whole guide doesn't apply. at the bottom of the guide it clearly list a reference to the 2008 Mitsubishi diamond having a fully functional cms and this does imply that the guide should be considered with these sets.

You and I are apparently talking past each other. To be specific, here's what I'm referring to:

Color Decoding. This is the display's ability to properly render the relative lightness of the primaries and hue of the secondaries. All commercial displays include a Color and Tint control. These are basically color decoding controls, though their effectiveness is extremely limited because Color adjusts the lightness of ALL of the colors and Tint effects hue of ALL of the secondaries. The problem is that displays all-too-often have color decoding errors that effect the colors differently. For example, you can adjust Color/Tint to get the correct lightness of blue and the correct hue of cyan, but the lightness of green and red can still be inaccurate. You could adjust the color control for red, but then blue and green would be inaccurate. See the problem? A full set of color decoding controls addresses this problem by offering color/tint controls that operate on red/magenta and green/yellow independently.

This paragraph, except for the last sentence is totally talking about a color system with no CMS. Now if you are thinking along the same lines then we're on the same channel.

Edit - after some additional thinking on this definition, I think there may be an error in the paragraph which might be confusing you. A color control associated with a color decoder is affecting the saturation of all colors not the lightness. Lightness is totally dependent on the luminance component of the color, and is adjusted using a grey scale TP.
post #89 of 808
I would say we are in agreement there. this is what i have been saying. color controls saturation for all primary colors. tint controls hue and a fully functional cms has control for hue,saturation and luminance for colors. are we in agreement? if so where is the disagreement.

I contest that you can fully adjust the mitsubishi colors without using hue, saturation, and lightness or luminance. that is why you cant fully adjust the colors without using saturation controls unless the saturation is already correct. I don't see how grey scale would determine a colors luminance or saturation. it could shift a colors hue in the direction that grey may be shifted toward if its off but that's it to my understanding.
post #90 of 808
My 65736 arrived today...I just plugged your settings in...wow! Looks great!

Only thing is my darks (when in between sceens, the black screen seems a little light) are not real dark.

Any suggestions?
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