Hauppauge HDPVR-1212 Owner's Thread - Page 92

I have been burning AVCHD discs for a year or two now - burned several thousand programs this way with great results. And although I have been very happy with the great HD quality, I have often been frustrated with the limited amount of space. I capture the majority of content from my HD-PVR using 1280x720 input at 7.1 Mbps variable, which provides excellent HD PQ for the majority of content, but it generally limits me to about 3 hours of content on a standard DVD-R.

I have wanted to start using BD-R for the 25GB size, but all the software I had tested insisted on re-encoding all the TME captured files, generally greatly increasing the file size and often reducing PQ. And I won't even mention the unbelievable amount of wasted time waiting for those unwanted and unnecessary recodes! What I wanted was a simple way to just put the exact same files I was burning to AVCHD DVD5 blanks to BD25 blanks. And I finally found it!

If you already know how to create an AVCHD with the TME software you got with your HD-PVR, then you ALREADY know everything you need to know to create the larger 25GB discs. And you can test it for free.

My process is as simple as this - I just edit the files and create the menus in TM Studio, just like I always have, but I keep adding programs until the displayed output size is up to 25GB. Then I simply burn the compilation to the HDD instead of a disc. Finally, I just use the 'write data' function of DVDFab Blu-ray Copy to write the TME output folder directly to a BD-R without any editing or recoding at all. No knowledge is needed here - there is nothing to do other than simply click on the 'Start' button!

I end up with a 25GB AVCHD disc that plays exactly like the 4.7GB discs.

Blu-ray Copy is not free, but it is VERY reasonably priced, and it has lots of functionality beyond simply burning these discs. I have found DVDFab products to be great, and the company provides outstanding support.

In my opinion, the beauty of this method is simply that you do not need to struggle with other unsupported and generally unfriendly software, and there is absolutely zero learning curve. You create the disc with menus just like you have been doing, and then copying it to the BD25 is absolutely nothing more than selecting the correct folder and just clicking on a 'Start' button! DVDFab products have a free 30 day trial, so testing this won't cost you a thing - you have a full month to try it out and see if the ease of use (plus the additional copy/burn capabilities) of Blu-ray Copy are worth the $50 or so to you. If not, keep struggling with the free stuff!

You can just use MultiAVCHD. It is absolutely FREE and doesn't re-encode if your video is compliant with BD specs.

Mozart, I noticed your multiavchd settings for BD are to split the files at 2950mb (or something like that). Why that setting instead of 4000mb or 7950mb?

On what tab do you see that number? Are you referring to INI file?
I attached image with the Author tab that shows split settings of 7950 for DVD DL and 23500 for BD SL.

I never split my files. Real BD's don't.

What's the point of doing that?

I don't split either. Those are default settings that are loaded from default INI file after you install MultiAVCHD. And you need to have some numbers in those boxes anyway.

On the other hand, if you had a chance to look at some real (commercial) BDs on you PC, especially those once with seamless branching, you would've seen that main title is split into multiple M2TS files.

I must have read it wrong, my bad.

Looks like my HD-PVR died No longer recognized on my HTPC and when I plugged it into my laptop, same result. Bummer. I wish there was some magical reset but I don't think so.
The hardware is a few years old and used for TV so it is on all the time. Guess I'll be scraping together some money for a new one. Prices are remarkably the same even after all this time. Hopefully Hauppauge has reved it a few times and made it more reliable.

^Yanking the power cord is the reset. Rebooting windows sometimes helps.

Also in the Arcsoft TME recording page hit the "refresh" button and wait patiently for at least half a minute.

Good luck.

Eh....my Rev. F1 box works better than my Rev. F2 box.

What are the symptoms? Do any of the lights come on when you power the HDPVR up? This very well could be a power supply issue. Those power supplies are horrible. I've already replaced both of mine, and since doing so, they both have been incredibly reliable.

With multiavchd - I can't get 'add chapter at title end' to work when I create custom chapters. I think it used to work before I started messing with the settings. Does anybody know how to get that working again?

Can you describe the process of how you create custom chapters and what setting did you mess with?

PS
Load default INI file that located in MultiAVCHD installed directory and try again.

I tried loading default settings. Didn't help.
When I create custom chapters I just click on edit chapters in each titles properties and add text in this format.
00:00:00.000
00:05:00.000

I could have sworn using custom chapters and add chapter at title end used to work together..

I'm just making another stupid mistake again.
I need to keep the 'add chapter at title end' checked and when I customize chapters I used to always keep the last entry to give me that functionality.
Sometimes I think I'm losing it..

Yes, that check box does the trick.

Also my understanding is that every time you open MultiAVCHD it loads default INI file. So, the first thing I do after opening it and start authoring I click on Settings tab, click Load Settings and load my customized INI file.

Hello all! I haven't been in here for a while. I have added 2 new PC components to my system, an EVGA NVidia GTX570 video card and a 240GB OCZ RevoDrive X2 PCI-Express SSD. The main purpose was to cut down on my AVCHD render time in Sony Vegas Pro11.

So I did a fresh install of Windows7 Ultimate 64bit and reinstalled my Hauppauge HDPVR driver and ArcSoft Total Media Extreme software.

After all updates were done, capturing in PS3 format M2TS files went fine, BUT I've lost my audio during playback when using Windows Media Player 11. The only way I could get audio back was to uninstall Total Media Extreme software.

Does anyone know of a fix for this?

Thanks in advance to those who reply

I just bought the Hauppauge HD PVR and am hoping to use it simply as a means to get recordings off my HD DVR's (Directv HR20). I am planning primarily to burn them to DVD+R (DL) disks to view in a blu ray player.

I have been reading through this forum trying to find something of a "newbie primer" - but my head is swimming now. If anyone could point me to such a thing (if it exists) ... or a particular post ... or just give me a quick re-cap, that would be great. Of course, the simpler the better ... and if any software is needed, cheaper (or free) is better (but willing to pay a little if it is going to make quality much better or process easier and/or less time-consuming).

Things such as help with settings in the software would be helpful!

Is it as simple as using the bundled (TME?) software to capture the video and using multiAVCHD to author and burn the file to DVD?

I would like to be able to clip the file (remove commercials - automatically would be great!) and create reasonable looking DVD menu, insert chapters, etc.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[One more FAR LESS important question ... any advice for using the HD PVR to get stuff into a smaller/ideal file size (format?) for viewing on an iPhone or iPad?]

Yes, that is what I do. You can either create an AVCHD file to burn to DVD or create a blu-ray file to burn to BD. I use ImgBurn to burn the DVD or BD disk. It can be called from multiAVCHD it works well and it is also free.


The best program I have found for removing unwanted stuff from a recording is VideoRedo. It is not free, but it works better than any other program I have ever tried. You can have it scan for commercials and it will mark what it thinks needs to be deleted. You can get a free 15 day copy to test.

By the way, most of what I burn to disk comes from my DirecTV HR21. The Hauppauge works great with those DVRs.

You'll get a lot of differing preferences for software to use for authoring.
I'll mention 3 apps.

1. You can use TME for authoring avchd with basic menu and basic editing.
2. tsmuxer will cut the start/end of file & create avchd file structure to burn but no menu. it's free & fast.
3. multiavchd uses tsmuxer to create file structure but has added features to create menus. free & fast.

I use 2 & 3.
Nero to burn a udf 2.50 avchd disc.

I REALLY appreciate the insights so far! Please keep them coming. And hopefully it will be helpful to other newbies, too! Still would love any links (or references to posts here) that would help me to walk through the process - a "newbie guide" of any sort.

The VideoReDo looks like slick software. I guess I should try out the 15-day trial. Looks like the expensive version even has something for converting videos to iPhone/iPad format (but expensive at nearly $100!). Any other (cheaper?) options would be great. But if it's the best, maybe worth the money???

So ... hypothetically ... I'd use TME to create the TS file from my DVR & Hauppauge ... then use VideoReDo to cut & trim (keeps the file in TS format without any major processing/recoding - or whatever it's called?!) ... then use ImgBurn to burn the TS file to a DVD+R (DL)? Where do I create the chapters and DVD background/menu (using multiAVCHD - after using VideoReDo and before using ImgBurn?)?

Also, any advice on "Device Settings" or "Format Settings" in TME when creating the TS file from the Hauppauge? Do you ever play around with the Brightness, Contrast, etc. in the Device Settings when taking videos off a DVR? Any other advice on the Format Settings - other than I guess playing around with the bitrate settings (trying to figure out how to maximize the bit rate and still have the recording, minus any removed commercials, fit on a 8.5gb DL DVD+R)? Is there any simple schedule or formula out there for figuring out the proper/max bitrate setting depending on minutes/hours of the DVR recording (minus commercials removed)?

Again - thanks for any insights!

good up to this point, then:

[quote][create the chapters and DVD background/menu (using multiAVCHD /QUOTE]

then burn to DVD + or - R, standard or DL depending on how large the .ts file is using ImgBurn.

I am glad to have found this thread!

I bought a Hauppauge 1212 back in October, with the hope of backing up recordings from my 2 cable DVRs (500GB each). I have used TME to record to a dell laptop, and that part seems to work great. I can even record stuff from VOD (for now). I like to watch series from the beginning,

The problem when it comes to actually doing the "pruning" of the .TS files at the beginning and end, and the commercials. Then I find the authoring software hard to understand.

I see the process as three steps:
1) Video Capture
2) Video Pruning of videos
3) Authoring a collection of videos

Total Media Extreme is not organized that way. The "Total Media Extreme" shortcut to an ugly dashboard for the suite of products. It took me a while to figure that out.

From the dashboard you can:
- Launch video capture (no entry in program files), to create .TS files
- Launch "Total Media Theater" (a viewer that can play .TS and other media files, but not a finished AVCHD).
- Launch "Total Media Studio" ( A clumsy video editor / authoring tool, that allows you to select multiple sections of from several .TS capture files, and build an AVCHD file structure).

I am OK with using TME for the Video Capture step, but a more traditional windows interface would be nice. I don't like software that forces me to use the touchpad, when I know there are standard windows shortcut keys that would do the same thing more easily. I love freeware like "imgburn".

TME as it exists does not allow me to prune the .TS to remove unwanted video. I must create an AVCHD project to do that, and it doesn't remove the unwanted from the .TS files. I would rather prune the .TS file right after I capture it, and when I have enough episodes, create an AVCHD project.

Anther problem: TME studio is not Frame Accurate. It is tiresome to enter start/end points to remove video, only to have several frames of unwanted video in the final result.

So I am looking for a tool that will allow me to easily edit the .TS file, without cramping my hand with the laptop touchpad. VideoRedo has been mentioned as a good tool, but seems a bit pricey at $95 for the h.264 version. H264_cutter is a Frame Accurate tool that only costs $40, but I haven't found any meaningful reviews. Another tool I saw on CNET that looked interesting is VideoSpirit Pro at $60.

Finally, there is the authoring step. After 4 months, I have enough episodes of shows I watch to build an AVCHD. I am hearing good things about MultiAVCHD. I can't use it until I solve the "pruning" of .TS files problem.

So what I am asking for is comments from anyone on what frame accurate software I should use to "prune" the .TS capture files, before I input them into MultiAVCHD. Cost is an issue, but usability is also important.

I am also interested in a free lightweight media player that plays AVCHD disks on a PC (and MAC?).

I have recorded well over 6,000 movies from HD Tivo boxes, HD Cable boxes, etc. Over half of those via the Hauppauge 1212 HD-PVR. The 1212 is a terribly flawed device, but still the best option available. I save these recorded programs in virtually all available formats, including HDD, DVD and Blu-ray. My choice of the ultimate archive media is based loosely on type of content, file size, and maybe just the whim of the day.

I regularly use TME1, TME2 (both versions supplied by Hauppauge with the 1212), VideoReDo4, and DVDFab suite of products. I have extensively tested and completely rejected video editing products from Sony, Corel, Nero, and Roxio.

Personally, I have come to really like the TME products included with the HD-PVR. Yes, the editing is somewhat clunky, and it is not actually "frame accurate", but with lots of practice I have found it is actually pretty easy to get virtually "frame accurate" results. It meets 98% of my needs for quick editing of stuff at the front of recordings, the occasional commercial, and the various annoying parts of the ridiculous credits on modern movies while keeping the meaningful pieces such as cast credits.

I generally refuse to watch or record ANYTHING with commercials, but on the rare occasion where I have commercials to edit out, VideoReDo is a fantastic product, and the .ts files saved without re-encoding work perfectly with TotalMedia Studio for quick and effective authoring of AVCHD discs.

Here are my personal thoughts and preferences on the process and products I use:

The vast majority of my recording is from a TiVo HD box. The main source material is either premium HD channels or SD classic movie channels. I have done a lot of testing of all the available output formats from the TiVo, with an eye specifically for maintaining the source PQ while achieving the smallest captured file size. Somewhat surprisingly, I found that my best option is to use 720p fixed output on the TiVo, no matter what the original source material format.

In the TME capture module, I have found that any fixed bitrate is pretty much just a waste of space. I use 7.1 Mbps variable for the majority of content, which results is outstanding HD PQ when viewed up very close on my 72" HD TV. However, program content with lots of fast action, lots of camera panning, or large amounts of detail such as forest scenes or crowded sports stadiums require a higher variable bit rate, often 10 or even 12 Mbps.

At 7.1 Mbps variable, I can generally fit 3:15 of material on a standard 4.7GB DVD+/-R, 6 hours on a dual layer DVD+R, and 16 hours on a 25Gb BD-R. I have found that dual layer DVD+R media are MUCH less reliable than standard DVD+/-R blanks. In addition, the very high laser power it takes to burn DL media results in relatively quick burnout of the drives. I do not have enough experience yet with the BD media to comment on either reliability or burner life.

When creating AVCHD projects for either DVD+/-R or DVD+R DL discs, I do virtually all of my editing, menus, and chapters directly in TotalMedia Studio, and then burn the project directly to the appropriate disc blank. This process is extremely easy, quick and reliable. Total authoring and burning time for a standard 4.7GB disc is usually around 20 minutes.

When creating AVCHD projects that require more space than available on DVD or DVD DL, I do all the project creation work directly in TM Studio, but I add content to the project up to 25GB, then burn the output to HDD and then just use DVDFab Blu-ray Copy to easily write the TM Studio output folder directly to BD-R discs without any further editing or recoding.

Great stuff V7goose & gromittoo ... please keep it coming! Would love to hear more personal experiences from people on the best, fastest, most efficient, cheapest way to get shows off DVR's onto DVD+R's, DVD+R(DL)'s, or BD's (hadn't really thought of that as an option, but I just noticed that you can get a Blu Ray burner for $65'ish - and it seems like BD blanks aren't much more than DVD+R(DL)'s (maybe 2x at most?).

Can you elaborate on why you consider the 1212 to be a flawed device? I'm thinking of ordering one soon, so any input is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Yes. The 1212 has way more than its share of problems - just go review the ArcSoft Total Media Extreme user forums to see the struggles that people are going through. Many are hoping for solutions from ArcSoft because there are special versions of TME bundled with the device and Hauppauge seems to be less than interested in fixing the long-standing problems.

It is my opinion that the vast majority of issues with the HD-PVR are directly caused by the hardware and NOT the TME software. The worst problems are for the folks who cannot get the 1212 to function at all - the TME capture module often does not recognize the device, and sometimes it sees the device, but will display only a blue screen. The majority of these complaints seem to be from folks trying to record game play (which I have no interest in), so I sometimes wonder if it is related to the specific input signals from those devices.

Here are the issues I personally have experienced:

• The HD-PVR is very touchy about the specific cables used and the specific computers used. Even Hauppauge says right on their support page that users should not try to use cables other than what they supply (a completely unrealistic expectation!) You must be sure that your computer meets the minimum specs from Hauppauge, but that does not guarantee good results. I have had strange problems with timed recordings and other issues on some computers that were well above minimum specs, but I finally bought a new computer to just dedicate to the recordings from the HD-PVR and most of the strangeness went away. This machine is just a middle of the road machine that I bought for under $400 almost two years ago, so even though it is well over the minimum specs, it is not a big powerhouse.
  
• If you select the S/PDIF optical audio inputs, but do not have a signal on the connection, the HD-PVR shuts off all video output also (resulting in symptoms that look like a dead HD-PVR). This does not happen using RCA jacks for 2-channel audio input.
  
• When using S/PDIF audio input, any momentary glitch in the audio signal causes the captured program to loose between 4 and 10 seconds of the program. For example, there are a couple of HD channels that frequently have split-second audio dropouts, just enough to hear a very slight pause when watching a program and trigger the display on my system receiver to flash the audio stream info. When this happens, if I am capturing that program with S/PDIF audio, the preview screen shows the video frozen for up to 10 seconds, but if you play back the captured program, the portion is just gone - totally cut out as if someone physically cut out 20 feet of a video tape and spliced it back together. And this "splice" is so clean there is no way to detect it unless you happen to notice the sudden incongruous change in the specific words being spoken or change in the scene that doesn't make sense. My point here is that if you are not actually watching the computer display while the program is being captured and notice this video freeze, you have absolutely no way of knowing that you have a ruined program!
  
  Even though I really want the 5.1 audio tracks on the modern programs, this problem is so bad that I avoid using the S/PDIF input unless it is something that I am willing to watch closely in real time on the computer monitor while I am capturing the program. I want to note here that the updated 1212 drivers from Hauppauge in mid 2011 significantly improved this problem, dropping the signal freeze time from about 10 seconds to around three seconds, but it is still unacceptable. I will also note that using a PCM audio stream for capture instead of the Dolby Digital signal also greatly reduces the extent of this problem, but that is an unacceptable choice to me.
  
• A relatively minor issue is that the S/PDIF jacks on the back of the unit are not logically placed, and more than one user has found they connected the cable to the wrong one. This wouldn't even be worth mentioning other than the fact that the HD-PVR acts like it is dead when you select S/PDIF but do not have an input signal there, resulting in long and pointless troubleshooting struggles until you finally learn about this stupid design quirk. If the video was still displayed instead of acting dead, you would quickly focus on the missing audio and easily correct the problem.
  
• The HD-PVR needs to be restarted regularly. If you leave it on for more than a day at a time (and are doing lots of recording with it), it begins to do strange things. Sometimes it just locks up, sometimes it switches the captured frame rate from 59.940 to 60, sometimes it seems to capture fine during the program, but ultimately refuses to save the captured file, and worst of all, the captured file sizes continue to grow with each subsequent capture until the unit is restarted (more on this in the next bullet). This behavior has been identical on two different units (different rev levels), so I have concluded it is an inherent design flaw and not something wrong with one specific box.
  
  Let me be clear here - most of the types of problems I describe in this bullet seem more like problems with the TME capture software than the hardware, but I have found that regular restarts of the HD-PVR, generally once a day, almost totally eliminates all of them.
  
• Now to the issue of captured file sizes - everything I am going to talk about here was from my extensive testing of the HD-PVR with drivers from 2009 and 2010. I do not know if this problem has been corrected with newer drivers because it is just not worth it to me to waste many hours re-recording the same programs just to compare outputs! Furthermore, this problem is/was most significant when capturing 1080 input streams, which I never do anymore; it was still apparent with 720 input, but nowhere near as bad.
  
  The problem: The file size for captured programs continues to get larger and larger with each successive program capture until the HD-PVR is finally restarted, and the amount of increase is significant. I can no longer find my original testing notes to give you specific examples, but I discovered the problem because it was bad enough that I was seeing inconsistent and unexplainable results when trying to estimate the amount of recording space I would need for specific programs, which led to lots of testing to root out the cause.

So, yes, I think this device is flawed. If there were any other reasonable options for recording HD video streams, I would have dumped this box long ago. But there are not, and despite the flaws in the Hauppauge 1212 HD-PVR, I have found ways to live with it sufficiently to record many thousands of movies. I cannot completely recommend the product to anyone, but if you go into it with your eyes open, it is probably worth the money. Good luck.

Personally, I do not agree with most of your complaints about TME. First of all, TM Theater on my machines plays back the AVCHD disks in a standard DVD drive just fine - full menus and everything.

Other thoughts, in no particular order -

I have no complaints at all with the TME window interface, but that is just personal preference.

It is a bit irritating that TMS does not allow you to directly save the edited file back in its original format, so if I am going to archive a program on the HDD in .ts format, I do all my editing with VideoReDo - a great product, but it cannot create either AVCHD or Blu-ray discs.

If I have a program that I know I will eventually save as AVCHD, I simply edit it with TMS and then save the project. Then each successive program that I want on the same disc, I just open the saved project and add the new program to it for editing. It is not a perfect solution, but it works. The worst drawback for me is that if I change my mind and want to move an edited program to a different project, there is no way to do that without starting a new project - you cannot move edits from one project to another existing project.

You can save the edited program back to the hard drive by "burning" the project to HDD and then digging the .m2ts file out of the AVCHD folder structure, but that is just too much effort for me.

Frame accurate type results from editing with TMS are relatively easy to achieve after you get the hang of how it does the cuts - just takes practice and lots of review. You can fine tune the cut points by using the mouse to click up or down through the frame counter, and I have gotten used to simply backing up the time line a couple of seconds after making a cut to preview the result. If the cuts are not clean where I want, it is not necessary to remove them and start over to just clip out a few more frames - just use the available buttons to move the selection point to the existing cut boundary, select mark in, then adjust the frame count to where you really want the cut and select mark out - this effectively just extends the first cut by the additional frames you want.

I do wish there was a way to automatically produce chapters at fixed time intervals instead of having to take the time to individually place each one.

As I have said in other posts, I agree that TM Studio editing is a bit clunky, but the whole TME package gives me enough of what I want that I like using it. I especially like the quick and space efficient production of the resulting AVCHD projects. If VideoReDo could produce AVCHD discs, I would use it exclusively for editing and production, but it does not.

From my testing of other video editing and production products, I think one of the big benefits of using TME for the whole thing is that it guarantees the formats of the captured files that go into the authoring process will always be what it wants, so there is never a surprise from long and quality reducing re-encodes of the edited files.

Thanks for your extensive explanation, this is very useful. One more question: would I be able to use my computer to do other tasks while it is recording a program (surfing the net, for example)?

ps. thanks also for sharing your bitrate settings in your previous post, I'll refer to them when I receive my HD-PVR.

Yes, I regularly use my browser for just about anything while capturing from the HD-PVR - never had a problem from it that I can detect. I do not often use that computer for much else beyond capturing programs and editing/authoring AVCHD discs (never at the same time). But the browser does not seem to be a problem. I do not know if other use would be an issue - just never wanted to try it.