Hauppauge HDPVR-1212 Owner's Thread - Page 119

Hey guys, I apologize if this has been discussed previously, I just had no idea what to search for. My HDPVR has worked basically flawlessly for a long time now...occasionally needs rebooting, but otherwise fantastic. Well, recently I did some rewiring and managed to plug the wrong power supply into it, and of course had to ship it off to get repaired. It came back yesterday, and its not working flawlessly anymore. Ive been able to capture some stuff with no issue, but other times, the captures are full of huge drop outs (1 hour is cut down to 20 minutes, for example). Using the standard software, you see this live (video and audio drop out, video goes to blue, etc...for significant periods of time). I was attempting to dump something from my DVR: the first time it was full of these problems, the second time it had no issues at all, and of course the DVR is playing back things fine. Any idea what might be causing this?

So I SHOULD update the drivers??

No, the box the HDDVR is connected to is an H20. Autotune not only works well but even remembers to power itself up if I forget. D*'s Autotune is rather cumbersome to use, but it does work enough for the scant few channel changes I need.

Check out this thread. I asked there if it'd be possible to get a guide put up, but no response so far. It looks like Venom is (who said in some other threads too that his set up was rock solid) using a DVBLink setup with that Directv.exe program. He did mention there was a way to use the native drivers, but that info is buried which is unfortunate (and looking around that board couldn't find them too). There's some other threads on that board, but no real instructions on how to set them up.

I have a 1212 and use it to move some HD TV content over that I want to save. I'm recording at 13.5mb, and pulling in 1080i to M2TS files, then process them with Handbrake so I can make them available to my ATV3. For those who also use Handbrake, I'm wondering what RF setting they use. I've left it at the normal value of 20 for a lot of the presets, but wonder if others find there is enough information there that they've run it with an RF setting of 21 or 22. I'm going to play with it a bit myself, but thought I'd also ask to see if others saw a benefit, or thought there is enough data in the source stream to even warrant a higher setting. Thanks.

Hello all -

I've seen many times in different forums where the advice is to never record in mp4 mode because of audio sync problems. I have a little bit of a different setup and have not been able to find an answer to my question.

I have my 1212 "pretending" to be a cable box in my Win7 MCE setup. I've tried it with both the native Hauppauge/MCE drivers and the DVBLink drivers. Feeding the 1212 are the component and optical outputs of a Roku box which is pointing to the BYUTV channel. I like using the DVBLink driver setup better because they supply an "On Idle" event with which you can trigger things and I use it (On Idle = false) to re-initialize the BYUTV channel stream and then send dummy Roku key presses through a Telnet connection to the Roku to keep the stream alive in case it has timed out or an error occurred. I had to do that because after an hour or so a message box would come up saying "Are you still there?" or something like that - kind of like how Pandora does it to keep from wasting bandwidth if no one is watching/listening. It was a bit disappointing at first to come home to watch the game only to see 2 or 3 hours of "Are you still there?" Then I use the On Idle = true to stop keeping the stream alive so I wouldn't be one of those bandwidth wasters.

Of course when MCE "tunes" to the channel (the only one) in my guide that says BYUTV it is really just pointing to the 1212 which is being fed by the output of the Roku box. When I first set my system up (4 OTA tuners, 3 cable tuners, 1 BYUTV "tuner") I never had any audio sync problems from the BYUTV recordings I would make. One day I noticed the dreaded sync issue. It's the one where it starts out pretty good but after a half hour it's off by a second or two, with the audio lagging.

I do like to play around with things and it's possible I "broke" something. I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling everything short of the OS. I will probably get around to that some time soon if I don't figure this out.

The MCE recordings are wtv but they are obviously coming from and the content is being compressed by the 1212 first. In what form are they coming? When you tell it to make an mp4 or a ts does it do anything different with regard to compression that could be the source of my audio sync problem ? Is there a setting in the DVBLink or Hauppauge driver that I missed that could have changed? Could it be related to any codec packs I may have installed (and have since uninstalled) ? I've seen many mentions of audio sync issues but is there a definitive source for troubleshooting ?

Thanks!

turn off aero and use windows basic. This eliminated for me the momentary pauses and other minor glitches. Dont know why other that my problems were solved.

Sent a sample file to Pegasys regarding TAW5 and 1212 files. I mentioned the MBAFFF/nonMBAFF finding. Here is their reply:

"Dear Matt, thank you for your file. The profile level does not meet the standards for BDMV (NTSC) and the GOP fields got over the standard."

Level on the 1212 file is Main@4.0, my Vidcam files are High@4.1 and will SR in TAW5.

I asked for further details, I asked why BDMV structure made from tsRemux works fine with these files but TAW Full Renders. Here is their reply:

"This is because the smart rendering function of Authoring Works 5 deeply check video and audio stream parameters. Then when such parameters meets the output target format it will be smart rendered by all means. Some freeware probably does not deeply check such parameters.

Frequently the time code, header, GOP data of these files recorded are weird or broken. Also the TV Software or capture cards does not captures so good at the beginning of the file. Some times file header and GOP information is incorrect, has audio glitch, has weird data, garbage or unusable data into them. When TMPGEnc software uses Time code for thumbnail preview and process, so it is necessary to read files deeply. Several Capture systems, DVR, DVB or Satellite receiver does not capture so good at the beginning of the files as well. So sometimes MPEG header and GOP information also is broken, incorrect or has unnecessary data.

Please try to record in another format or if possible make setting when recording."

Does not look like they intend to "fix" anything.

Matt

Thanks for checking with Pegasys. I guess I will continue using MultiAVCHD and Imgburn to create Blu-Ray and AVCHD discs. I've created with both TAW5 and MultiAVCHD and can see no difference in the way the discs play in my Blu-Ray player. TAW5 takes about 2 hours to create a 2 hour Blu-Ray disc while MultiAVCHD and Imgburn can create one in about 10 minutes.

TAW5 can do it in 10 minutes if it smart renders and I do love the many menu options. My vidcam files smart render and complete in very little time.

I never figured out how to use multiAVCHD, too confusing for my poor little brain I guess.

Matt

I emailed Hauppauge engineering on Thursday with no response.

It would help to also phone support there with your findings.

Rick

Hi Guys

As a relative newcomer to the 1212 here in Australia, I have finally worked out a system which gives me a good quality video. However, I am curious as to how the 1212 works in the US with the NTSC system. When you use Arcsoft TME with an SD cable box, do you get an image which completely fills the preview window and a video which captures at 800 x 480 and completely fills the screen when viewed? Here PAL from the 1212 is seen as 720 x 576i (SCART to component). The preview is seen as widescreen but does not completely fill the window (black bars at the top, bottom and left sides). The recorded .TS file has a wide black border on the left side and a small black border on the top and left. It is seen as 720 x 576 but plays as widescreen. The .TS file also plays showing a large number of horizontal lines from top to bottom and looks terrible. However, if I convert to .mp4 using AVS Video Converter (forcing 1280 x 720 output with 6 Mb/s bit rate), I get a pretty much perfect picture. I get rid of the ads with AVS Video maker which is frame accurate (as long as the .mp4 is generated with AVS Video Converter?). However, I still need to crop which I use Easiestsoft Video Converter (which also converts; I use the parameters of the original .mp4 file) but can force the output to 1280 x 720 so I get a full screen video. The video I start with usually crops to 1249 x 709 which is pretty much 16:9. However, this is a 3 stage process which is a bit tedious. Easiestsoft video converter will convert a .TS video to .mp4 but the horizontal lines are still there so using it directly on the .TS file is not an option. Any clues? I also record at 8 Mb/s on the 1212 which I think is the default. Does anyone think this is too high (or too low) for SD cable? I am more than happy with the final output (approx. 2 GB for a 45 min video) but would like to make the conversion faster. I looked at going to HD cable but the result I am getting seems great with SD. With HD I would have to use HDMI which would necessitate using something like ViewHD or the HDFury. These seem to have disappeared from US sites: have they been banned in the US?

Will be interested in your replies.

Thanks in advance.

I finally got around to plugging in the 1212 and setting it up with my recordings from my PVR (Dishnetwork 211K/Bell 6141). The recordings look just fine, but the interlace problems only show up when I try to play the TS files (what really is the difference in M2TS and TS files anyway?) on the computer screen. If burned to disc, they are not interlaced on playback on my RCA 720p, nor my Sony Bravia 1080p sets.

I'm recording at 13.5 MB/sec. CBR and files are about 9GB for a 1.5 hour movie. Just wondering if this can be lowered for black and white movies or should you change settings in the TME2 software if you are recording those kinds of films? Also, would VBR lower the file size so AVCHDs made from these files fit onto a double layer disc? If I leave them on the hard drive after trimming with Videoredo or burn them to BD-Rs, I guess that would be moot since you can fit a few films onto those without thinking about compressing them into MKVs or reencoding the capture or redoing the capture at a lower bit rate.

Luckily, I spent many hours going over the posts here and other places before setting this up. Lots of posts on setting up a PVR system with the Hauppage and automatic recording, scheduling, etc. but that's not what I am interested in so it's moot. Haven't tried to cap at 13.5 MB/sec. VBR or from live TV but that will be for another day. I'm thinking a lower bitrate would also work with things like TV cartoons since there is little movement in them anyway, or is everyone just using the one setting and not touching it?

Also, TCM recordings give the postage stamp effect, with black bars surrounding the picture. Any way to correct that? Not truely a problem as Zoom on the Bravia fixes it somewhat. The RCA has no zoom but there is an aspect ratio button that I can use to see if that corrects it. It would be best to correct it before making a disc though if possible...

Nope, the RCA has no way of correcting the picture at all...
Edited by Doug O - 2/12/13 at 8:50pm

Opinions vary on how use the 1212 effectively. You might have to do some testing to figure out your preferences.
I only capture using VBR. It does create smaller files than CBR.
I figure out out what type of disc I'm going to burn before capturing. Depending on length of video & how important it is to me ~ I then choose resolution and bitrate.
My DTV DVR is capable of changing apsect ratio & resolution.. 720p or 1080i. (try changing apsect on your dvr for TCM)
You can change the bitrate for capturing in TME under 'format settings'.

Wouldn't changing the aspect of your classic movies make the video out shape? If it's broadcast in 4x3 I keep it that way.
I posted approx bitrates by size of disc on page 93 of this thread. It might be a good starting point for you.
You can try estimating total file size of a capture by test capturing a 1 min clip. Multiply that by the total number of minutes. Then divide that by 1024. That will give you the estimated number of GBs for the capture.
I think a safe file size threshold for a dual layer dvd is right around 7.75gb. You need to save a little room for the extra files when authoring an avchd disc..

Thanks for the post. I just checked the original recording on the PVR and it also displays the postage stamp effect but not as badly. Probably an aspect ratio mismatch when the SD version of the film was converted to HD. TCM seems to have a lot of that going by posts in other forums. Post production reencoding seems to be the only solution other than zooming on your TV if it has that function. TCM SD probably had the correct aspect ratio. The film in question is available on DVD so I'm nit going to worry about it.

I'll try VBR with the file sizes you had on page 93. I actually printed that out so I could reference it.

The Bell/Dish STBs also allow you to change the output to 480i, 720p and 1080i 4:3 or 16:9 though I haven't played with them much. Still trying to get the aspect ratio corrected on the Bomba The Jungle Boy films broadcast last year on the last film which I mistakingly recorded in HD instead of SD like all the others. I should be able to fix it with my Vision Quest DVD recorder or looped through to my Pioneer 650 DVD recorder but I haven't tried it yet. TCM is a crapshoot anyway. Sometimes you have to go check out Imdb to find out if the film was shot in widescreen before recording it so you can fix it if any problems crop up. It's a bit of a pain...

Videredo can also change the aspect ratio. Look under 'options' when saving the file. There's an option for aspect ratio and aspect correction.

Further to my post #3553, are the horizontal lines I am seeing in my .TS files due to the video being interlaced (Australian TV is 576i)? The problem of the video not filling the screen completely sounds a bit like the postage stamp problem you are experiencing. I get around this by cropping with Easiestsoft Video Converter. You just drag the bars to the area you want to keep and do a conversion to any format you want. You can select the aspect ratio so it's easy to keep the widescreen format. If the original aspect ratio is incorrect, AVS Video converter does a good job of conversion since you can select the output aspect ratio you want.

Thanks. I'll look into doing that. I have also been told I can play the video back but set the PVR for a 480i TV output and either direct record it to the Vision Quest or loop it from the Vision Quest though the S-Video output to the Pioneer 650 to correct the aspect ratio. Worst case scenario I can fix it with Videoredo.

Went back and checked and found this explanation and fix:

http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/350495-Hauppauge-HD-PVR-SD-Cropping-Info

With a little work, I think I can get these problem caps fixed...
Edited by Doug O - 2/17/13 at 8:21pm

Well, tried to cap through the Vision Quest component inputs directly to the Pioneer 650 with everything set to PS 480i and still get the picture in a box effect. Odd thing is the high def channels like AMC display correctly when direct viewed. Guess I'll have to try a re-encode using Videoredo.

Update. The PVR has 2 480i display outputs. Going to try a recap with the second setting to see what happens...

Tried to use Videoredo to correct the aspect ratio and ran into the dreaded "audio ring buffer overflow" twice now. Apparently this is still a problem with the most recent build. I've set all the options in the hidden menu to the forum moderator's suggestions but the conversion is slow going now, stuck at about 11 minutes. The last two times the program just froze. Looks like the program is great for h264 recorded material but no good for DVD sources with their current encoder. Pity that...

20 minutes later...crashed again! Have to try again but denuded so there is NO audio. Will check back again...

Hmm...program says it can't handle elementary streams. Have to dig out some of my old encoders from a few years ago that could...
Edited by Doug O - 2/19/13 at 6:29am

Well, took awhile but had some time to call Hauppauge on this today. I have had good conversations with their tech folks before....this one not so good. The guy i spoke to had no idea what MBAFF was and said the encoding criteria were determined by a combination of their driver and Arcsoft TME. I mentioned that in your post you said that software prior to 2010 seemed to work because of the MBAFF setting. He offered to try and find me a driver pre-2010 to try.

Between the 2 responses from Hauppauge and Pegasys it seems we are SOL for TAW5.

Will post if old drivers do any good.

Matt

Yes, deinterlacing can create horizontal lines. A lot depends on the quality of the deinterlacer and how much motion is present. Although I'm very happy with my Hauppauge device overall, I feel its deinterlacing falls a bit short. Working in the CCTV field (hence my username), I've seen much better deinterlacing in many analog-to-digital encoders than the Hauppauge provides.

I also use a timebase corrector when dubbing from videotape (almost done with that project after dubbing ~300 tapes). That at least stabilizes the picture, though it doesn't seem to help the deinterlacing one bit.

Question: I capture via optical in order to maintain Dolby 5.1, but Ive noticed in the instances Ive edited the audio, that the center channel bleeds into the left and right (commentary during a sports broadcast is usually center channel only). I assumed this was just the fault of the broadcast, but listening closely to an actual broadcast today, and the bleeding doesnt show up. Is this bleeding standard with the PVR, or is there something wrong with my setup?

It varies by broadcast and from moment to moment. There may be perfect separation at the start of the show but then half way through there might be a section that "bleeds". I'd hardly think this would matter much in actual livingroom playback unless you are doing some tricks like intentionally stripping away the announcer to watch without the commentary.

You can verify what I'm claiming by recording the show to your cable box or sat box DVR and replaying the same section back again to see if it is in fact embedded in the broadcast signal.

Homebuilt HTPC or off-the-shelf desktop? I had this issue with my Dell which shipped with some kind of "sound enhancement" software built-in. The software was intentionally pushing left-right bleedthru. Once I dug that software out of the system, all was fine.

I have been using my HD PVR for years with no issues. Recently, I've noticed a scrolling horizontal band on the video. It is not in the recording. It looks fine on the DVR. I attached an image. Anyone else have this problem. I changed all the cables and still have it. I also changed the out let it was plugged into and still the same. Has my unit reached it's usefulness. I think I bought it when it first came out something like close to 5 years ago. Any help would be great. I have sent a message to Hauppauge but no response back probably because it's the weekend. Thanks

Still using the original power supply that came with it? If so, I'd suspect the Power Supply is going.

99% of the time scrolling horizontal bars in video are due to a ground loop in your system. They are hard to diagnose, especially since you may only see the problem on some material yet it is completely obscured on others. Also things would think couldn't possibly have anything to do with the video, like for example which specific AC power outlet of your room your subwoofer is plugged into, can potentially be the culprit and cause the video degradation, even though the video signal doesn't travel to that device.

A ground loop is created when your system "sees" two (or more) alternate ground paths which have a slightly different "potential", as they call it. Here's a really quick test which often covers I'd say 50 % of these issues:

-Generate the problem in a reliable way which you can instantly monitor during the test.
-While viewing the problem image, disconnect the incoming RF signal wire, (usually a screw-on F connection) to your cable box/DVR (or sat box/DVR or TV tuner).

Did the problem go away? Depending on your results I can tell you what to do next.

Thanks
I disconnected the wire and it is still there. I changed outlets for the cable box too and unplugged my subwoofer.

In a nut shell, to kill ground loops you want everything to connect to the same ground {and ideally have that be its ONLY ground]. You also have to remember that the problem can travel over any kind of wire, not just AC cords but also ethernet, RJ45, USB, coax RG59/6, minijack IR flasher command wires, anything. The RF wire into the cable box is a common culprit, too bad that wasn't it because that's an easy fix.

The next step is to make sure all the AC cords get plugged to the exact same power strip.* This means your TV, stereo system, computer, sub, cable box, EVERYTHING to the same strip. [You can piggy back an extra power strip onto the first if you need more slots.] Problem gone?

Another approach is to stare at the visual problem on screen and one by one start yanking power cords from their existing outlets until the problem goes away.



*This is called "star grounding" because all the grounds lead back to a central point like the rays of light emanating from a star. It is referred to as "Single Point Power Ground Connection" in the bottom diagram in this very good article you should read:

http://www.cinemasource.com/articles/gnd_loop.pdf

If you still have problems you may have to resort to the band-aid approach of applying transformers , which are discussed in that article.

On rare occasions the problem is from the source material. If when you hit the pause button the hum bar freezes on screen and stops scrolling, then that means the source movie/TV show has the problem! Nothing you can do about that.
Edited by m. zillch - 3/8/13 at 6:47pm

When I hit pause, the scrolling does stop. It happens on all channels and only when I use the PVR. It doesn't show when I watch the recording on the DVR nor can I see it when I watch a TV channel although I can see it when I watch the same show through the PVR on my computer.