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Hauppauge HDPVR-1212 Owner's Thread - Page 123

post #3661 of 3814
Have you guys tried changing your Luma & Chroma settings? I read somewhere else that dropping the settings to 1 or 2 sharpens the captured video...
I tried it and didn't think it was better.. Wondering if anybody else tested it..
The default settings are 3 aren't they?
post #3662 of 3814
I think if you are recording professionally pre-made material, and wish to keep it intact as if you were watching it live, not your recording of it, everything should be left at the default values. All those adjustments are for when you have a weird, compromised source, say your own video camera output which has no controls of its own, and you need to tweak the image to get it to be accurate to what you see with your actual eye.

Read my signature line below this post and then read the following paragraph.

There will always be some hot-dog, gung ho, cowboy who fundamentally doesn't understand that "high fidelity", be it audio or video, means "as truthful or faithful [fidelity] a rendition of the original, warts and all, with the highest level of quality, ideally total transparency, and with no second guessing or adulteration of what the original artist(s) intended." Such people, often kids, seem to think they will set the bass and/or treble [or say brightness and/or chroma, aka color] to what looks "best" to them, but it's what is actually the sharpest and most punchy to their eye, at the expense of fidelity to what would have been experienced at the live event.

It is extremely difficult to argue with these people because they don't even grasp the fundamental concept of "never messing with another person's art". To them if the movie Citizen Kane "looks better colorized", even though it would make Orson Wells turn over in his grave, they just don't give a damn and they'll colorize it, add artificial EE (edge enhancement) to make it look "sharp", etc., with no concern for the true meaning of "hi-fi".

Equalizers, be they audio or video versions, should never be set by eye/ear alone, but instead should only be used if there is a calibration tone/image [example: SMPTE color bars for video or pink noise for audio]. To the people who claim, "Oh no, I'm superior to Mr. Zillch, I can do it by eye/ear alone", I say "Baloney. What you can do is set it to your taste, not to what is accurate".

Humans invariably prefer smiley face EQ in audio and punchy, over sharpened, red pushed images in video. That's what they set the controls for, given the chance using eye/ear alone, yet insist it is "accurate".
Edited by m. zillch - 7/31/13 at 8:06pm
post #3663 of 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

I think if you are recording professionally pre-made material, and wish to keep it intact as if you were watching it live, not your recording of it, everything should be left at the default values. All those adjustments are for when you have a weird, compromised source, say your own video camera output which has no controls of its own, and you need to tweak the image to get it to be accurate to what you see with your actual eye.
Read my signature line below this post and then read the following paragraph.
There will always be some hot-dog, gung ho, cowboy who fundamentally doesn't understand that "high fidelity", be it audio or video, means "as truthful or faithful [fidelity] a rendition of the original, warts and all, with the highest level of quality, ideally total transparency, and with no second guessing or adulteration of what the original artist(s) intended." Such people, often kids, seem to think they will set the bass and/or treble [or say brightness and/or chroma, aka color] to what looks "best" to them, but it's what is actually the sharpest and most punchy to their eye, at the expense of fidelity to what would have been experienced at the live event.
It is extremely difficult to argue with these people because they don't even grasp the fundamental concept of "never messing with another person's art". To them if the movie Casablanca "looks better colorized", even though it would make Orson Wells turn over in his grave, they just don't give a damn and they'll colorize it, add artificial EE (edge enhancement) to make it look "sharp", etc., with no concern for the true meaning of "hi-fi".
Equalizers, be they audio or video versions, should never be set by eye/ear alone, but instead should only be used if there is a calibration tone/image [example: SMPTE color bars for video or pink noise for audio]. To the people who claim, "Oh no, I'm superior to Mr. Zillch, I can do it by eye/ear alone", I say "Baloney. What you can do is set it to your taste, not to what is accurate".
Humans invariably prefer smiley face EQ in audio and punchy, over sharpened, red pushed images in video. That's what they set the controls for, given the chance using eye/ear alone, yet insist it is "accurate".

I hear ya.. Are the defaults 3 for each setting? (Chroma/Luma)
post #3664 of 3814
Yes, 3 and 3. "Refresh" restores them to these default values.
post #3665 of 3814
My long winded rant was actually about the contrast, brightness, saturation, tint, and sharpness settings, I mistakenly thought you were talking about, which are found on another tab, by the way. Oops. My bad.

I'm not entirely sure what the low pass settings, you speak of , do, but if "3" was not truly the best value for them, I would ask then why Hauppauge has set the defaults as they have? [Does the created file size skyrocket if set differently, for example? That's the only logical reason, that comes to mind at the moment, as to why Hauppauge/Arcsoft would undermine the image quality of their own product, and it is a "stretch".]
Edited by m. zillch - 6/7/13 at 10:59pm
post #3666 of 3814
I've had my 1212 for a while, and it works well, but I saw the 1512 is out now.

I'm recording off component with optical audio.
I have no use for StreamEez.
Is there different/better hardware inside the 1512?
Will recording non-HDCP materials via HDMI produce better output than component?

I mainly view my recordings via my LG Bluray Players (BD390 and BD570) which natively play MKV files, .MTS and others, without the need for a DLNA server. The 1212's output files are playable but lack FF/RW abilities, so as I trim commercials and other unwanted parts in VideoREDO, I save as... and pick H.264 Matroska MKV to make them "more compatible." I've also been playing them via DLNA on my Sony TV's (using Serviio as my server).

Is there any reason to upgrade to the 1512, or should I just stick with the 1212?
post #3667 of 3814
I don't have one but you might want to check out this thread..
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1460986/hd-pvr-2-1512-owners-thread/30#post_23438032
post #3668 of 3814
Has anyone installed this on Windows 8 64bit and got it working? I just got one of these from a friend. I was able to get the latest driver, which I downloaded from the Hauppauge web site, installed. When I load the record module, I keep getting an error telling me the device is not available or is being used by something else. The official site does state that "Windows 8" is on the list of supported OSes:
Quote:
HD PVR driver version 1.7.1.30059
This version is for Windows 8, 7, Windows Vista or Windows XP.
They also mention specifically, later in the notes, that both platforms are supported:
Quote:
This is a Windows driver only for Windows 8, 7 and Vista (32 and 64-bit versions) plus Windows XP (32-bit only)
I do have a virtual machine with Win7 32bit, so I installed the drivers/apps there and it actually worked fine.
post #3669 of 3814

You have to be sure you have the latest drivers/firmware for both the hardware AND the Arcsoft software. Also, I can tell you that  the turn on sequence can be a little finicky. I turn on my PVR but then instantly launch the TME software, before the hardware even gets a chance to stabilize. If still no love 20 seconds later , I then hit the refresh button in the software, wait another 20 seconds, and by doing all these things I just mentioned, I can get it to go 95% of the time. The other 5% requires me rebooting window 7 64bit. Hope this helps.

post #3670 of 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

You have to be sure you have the latest drivers/firmware for both the hardware AND the Arcsoft software. Also, I can tell you that  the turn on sequence can be a little finicky. I turn on my PVR but then instantly launch the TME software, before the hardware even gets a chance to stabilize. If still no love 20 seconds later , I then hit the refresh button in the software, wait another 20 seconds, and by doing all these things I just mentioned, I can get it to go 95% of the time. The other 5% requires me rebooting window 7 64bit. Hope this helps.
Wow, that sounds insane. Actually, when I had it installed under Win7, I NEVER had issues to tell you the truth. Now that I've updated to Windows 8, I can't get it working at all. I just sent Hauppauge support an email. Will see what they say. Hopefully I'll hear something tomorrow. If they help me to get it working under Windows 8, I'll be sure to post the solution here. It's amazing that there is so little info on the 1212 with Windows 8. I just couldn't find anything helpful prior to posting my question.

I tried what you mention actually and I found a YouTube video (for the newer 1512) and thought I'd try it and neither worked. What's strange is that the driver is working and I can even get info from the device by using graphedt/graphstudio by loading the WDM capture filter and setting some properties that give me the frame rate info. So there's something else going on.
post #3671 of 3814

The fact that you've examined the signal coming in from the USB  by an alternate means might have actually exacerbated the problem. From me weak understanding, the main problem arises from alternative couplings the TME software is sniffing for. It might turn on and say to the USB hub, etc. "Hey, who wants to hook up?" Incoming feeds that already have a partner are overlooked for "free" ones. For example, if you ever connected a web cam to the hub the software might be diligently just sitting there thinking, "OK, I see the 1212 already has an assigned partner, but I'm sure he'll be connecting the webcam for me to hookup with, any minute now. I'll just sit here patiently waiting for him to plug it in."smile.gif

post #3672 of 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

The fact that you've examined the signal coming in from the USB  by an alternate means might have actually exacerbated the problem. From me weak understanding, the main problem arises from alternative couplings the TME software is sniffing for. It might turn on and say to the USB hub, etc. "Hey, who wants to hook up?" Incoming feeds that already have a partner are overlooked for "free" ones. For example, if you ever connected a web cam to the hub the software might be diligently just sitting there thinking, "OK, I see the 1212 already has an assigned partner, but I'm sure he'll be connecting the webcam for me to hookup with, any minute now. I'll just sit here patiently waiting for him to plug it in."smile.gif
No, there's no hub nor are there any other devices trying to connect to this capture device. I only tried to "talk" to the device after the problems appeared with TME not able to successfully connect to the device. I just wanted to be sure the device actually recognized and there was communication with it. It's called troubleshooting. wink.gif This would NOT have exacerbated the problem.
post #3673 of 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikknightt View Post

I don't have one but you might want to check out this thread..
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1460986/hd-pvr-2-1512-owners-thread/30#post_23438032
Thanks. I missed that thread.
post #3674 of 3814
All,
My 1212 has been working flawlessly for about 2 years. Now, I'm getting AC hum in the audio and slight color change bars in the video. I haven't changed any cables, or AC hook ups. I did try a replacement power supply, but no joy. Think it's caps on the main board? Something else?
post #3675 of 3814

Sounds to me to be a ground loop. You would think they can't occur when everything seems rock solid, and recordings come out fine, and then all of the sudden, BAM, out of no where, you start to hear hum and see horizontal color bands (bars). The give away is if these bars scroll slowly up the image, which you didn't actually mention. Do they?

post #3676 of 3814
Oops, that's what I meant by the color bars, forgot to say they were moving. Like I said, I haven't rewired anything in a while, wonder what happened?
post #3677 of 3814

I would try quickly disconnecting, and then firmly re-seating, BOTH ends of all the various inputs and outputs on the Hauppauge. It could be a connection is simply loose or slightly corroded, and this procedure will hopefully restore the conductivity to that of a clean, solid, new connection. [With RCA connections, it is always best to apply a slight twisting action, both as you insert and remove them. This helps scrape clean the conductive surfaces.] Also, be sure your source device (cable box, sat box., etc), the HDPVR, and the computer are all plugged to the same AC power strip, which is then plugged to only ONE AC wall outlet.

 

[Ground loops occur when one of the devices sees two alternate ground paths. You want to be sure each one only sees one path, so this can't occur. It is unfortunately not just the power cords though. If for example you had a printer plugged in to a different AC outlet, and it to the computer through a USB cord, oddly, even though it wouldn't seem to have anything to do with the HDPVR and its recordings, the ground loop problem could be coming from it!]


Edited by m. zillch - 7/4/13 at 9:35am
post #3678 of 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_helm View Post

All,
My 1212 has been working flawlessly for about 2 years. Now, I'm getting AC hum in the audio and slight color change bars in the video. I haven't changed any cables, or AC hook ups. I did try a replacement power supply, but no joy. Think it's caps on the main board? Something else?
There was talk some time back about power supply failures. That may be the culprit. I've also tried to keep the supply cool and decrease the load by checking the "Disable Bling LEDs" box in the Format Settings section of the Capture Module.
post #3679 of 3814
Quote:
 I did try a replacement power supply, but no joy

 

.

post #3680 of 3814

I've never liked how when inserting the RCA plugs to the back, the entire board bends inward from the pressure of pushing the RCAs on (another reason why a slight twisting action can be beneficial, BTW). I once opened my unit and was aghast to see that the RCA jack pack is simply soldered to one of the main boards perpendicularly and has no dedicated support to keep it from putting lots of strain on the solder joints when pushed. This makes the delicate solder connections easy to crack, accidentally, including the outer shield which is a ground. This can cause hum and other issues. 

post #3681 of 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

... AC power strip, which is then plugged to only ONE AC wall outlet...

You were right, ground loop. Wonder why it took so long to show up? Stuff ordered to replace the temp setup.

(There are times when I wish all analog devices had a signal ground connector, so you could try all signals together!)


Thanks all.
post #3682 of 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

.
Ooops! Dyslexia rears its ugly head (or maybe liquor eek.gif ).
post #3683 of 3814
Do any of you use a workstation with an Intel i3 3.4ghz with HD 2000 graphics for your h.264?
I might want to upgrade from my 5yr old dual core AMD 2.0ghz clunker with radeon 3400 and don't have a lot to spend..
Was wondering how the i3 performed when editing these PVR files with VideoRedo / MultiAvchd / Tsmuxer...
It's gotta be quite a bit better than what I got right?
I see some Gateway & Dell systems for $300-$400 out there..
post #3684 of 3814
SUBJECT: My Hauppauge PVR-1212 w/Win-TV is Randomly Not Recording Scheduled Shows...

Since three 'Brown Outs' within 10 seconds took out my HTPC using Vista WMC and 2 SiliconDust HDHR3-US tuners, I've been using my BACKUP Magnavox 2160A DVDRs @ SLP feeding my ReplayTV 5XXXs via S-Video for my FiOS ClearQAM channels. But, since most of the current PRIME TIME ClearQAM/OTA shows are repeats, I've been using my FiOS Motorola 7100 HD STB and PVR-1212 much more.

My problem is that the Hauppauge-provided WinTV Scheduler is randomly NOT RECORDING about 1 out of 20 shows. It doesn't matter if it's a MANUALLY scheduled sequential USA NCIS or a WEEKLY scheduled USA NECESSARY ROUGHNESS. My PVR-1212 will record the PREVIOUS show and the FOLLOWING show - I don't understand why it RANDOMLY misses the show in the middle?!?

Examples:
  • USA was broadcasting NCIS from 1300 until 1900; the show at 1700 didn't record.
    .
  • I have NECESSARY ROUGHNESS scheduled to record WEEKLY. ROYAL PAINS recorded - NECESSARY ROUGHNESS didn't.

I did some GOOGLE'ng which suggested that I look at the Windows TASK SCHEDULER. I use TitanTV to select the shows that I want to record.

Any ideas as to why RANDOMLY some shows don't record?

Thanks! smile.gif
post #3685 of 3814
SUBJECT: Recording Input Resolution vs Encoding Bit Rate...

I'm an "Old Fart" on a fixed income literally FORCED to purchase a new Panasonic 32" 720p LCD HDTV (to replace my recently deceased Panasonic 27" CRT) that I view from my couch @ ~11'. From everything I've read thus far, to avoid 'translation problems', I've set my FiOS Motorola 7100 HD STB to output @ 720p and I've set my Hauppauge PVR-1212 to record @ 720p. I started out with an Encoding Bit Rate of 13.5, then 11.0, and currently 8.0 to save HDD space. My eyesight is constantly deterioating so although most shows are completely viewable @ 8.0, when they display either cell phone or CRT/LCD PC screens I have to REWIND / PAUSE / ZOOM to read the screen.

With my current settings, these screen are often BLOCKY. Is this due to the Motorola 7100 STB feeding the PVR-1212 a 720p signal or is it due to my dropping my Encoding Bit Rate to 8.0? i.e. Should I change the Motorola 7100 STB output to 1080i or should I increase the Hauppauge-PVR-1212/WinTV Encoding Rate?

On various forums, I've seen recomendations to feed the BEST available signal "Down-the-Line" and trust that the encoders, fed with EXCESS BITS (i.e. 1080i-to-720p), will output an image better than if they were fed with EXPECTED BITS (i.e. 720p-to720p).

With the interest of conserving HDD space, what should I do?

Thanks! smile.gif
post #3686 of 3814

Blockiness , aka tiling or macroblocking, especially noticeable when there is fast motion on much of the screen, is due to an inadequate bit rate. You may find that 8.0 MB/s  is perfectly adequate for slow paced sitcoms or watching a fairly static image like a talking head give the news, but it gets into trouble for fast camera panning sequences or with a complex moving image, such as an action movies or sports. I would try 11 or 12 MB/s as a bare minimum for those.

 

Although it is always nice to conserve hard drive space, keep in mind that the price of external drives you can easily supplement your computer with and are easy to use via USB connection, have plummeted in recent years. Here's an example . Buy one and you can then record at 13.5 MB/s for 100+ 2hr movies.

 

As for using 720 instead of 1080i because your TV is natively 720 and that means hypothetically there is no need for the signal to be translated [transcoded] through a potentially image degrading scaler, I wouldn't worry too much about that [since you are still using a transcoding scaler actually, the one in the cable box] ; instead, ignore that advice and try using 1080i to see how the results look to you. Keep in mind that both the TV and the Hauppauge might need to have their settings readjusted for the new incoming resolution. On my TV, for example, the color/tint/brightness/etc. controls for an incoming 720 signal is an independent thing, even when using the same input port, compared to a 1080 signal, [although I don't know how common that is.]


Edited by m. zillch - 7/26/13 at 8:54am
post #3687 of 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearToLand View Post

SUBJECT: Recording Input Resolution vs Encoding Bit Rate...

I'm an "Old Fart" on a fixed income literally FORCED to purchase a new Panasonic 32" 720p LCD HDTV (to replace my recently deceased Panasonic 27" CRT) that I view from my couch @ ~11'. From everything I've read thus far, to avoid 'translation problems', I've set my FiOS Motorola 7100 HD STB to output @ 720p and I've set my Hauppauge PVR-1212 to record @ 720p. I started out with an Encoding Bit Rate of 13.5, then 11.0, and currently 8.0 to save HDD space. My eyesight is constantly deterioating so although most shows are completely viewable @ 8.0, when they display either cell phone or CRT/LCD PC screens I have to REWIND / PAUSE / ZOOM to read the screen.

With my current settings, these screen are often BLOCKY. Is this due to the Motorola 7100 STB feeding the PVR-1212 a 720p signal or is it due to my dropping my Encoding Bit Rate to 8.0? i.e. Should I change the Motorola 7100 STB output to 1080i or should I increase the Hauppauge-PVR-1212/WinTV Encoding Rate?

On various forums, I've seen recomendations to feed the BEST available signal "Down-the-Line" and trust that the encoders, fed with EXCESS BITS (i.e. 1080i-to-720p), will output an image better than if they were fed with EXPECTED BITS (i.e. 720p-to720p).

With the interest of conserving HDD space, what should I do?

Thanks! smile.gif
My immediate thought is you're sitting way too far from the TV of this size, especially since you claim your eyesight is deteriorating (I'm in the same boat). You can find recommendations on line, like this one, for optimum viewing for your display size and resolution.

One thing you can try is to find a channel that has a constant scrolling ticker, e.g., news channels like FOX, CNN, etc., and record a 30 second clip starting at 8Mbps, 9, 10 through 13 and then do a compare on them for clarity and smoothness of scrolling. The one you like with the lowest bit rate should work for what you need.

However, if you're not planning on permanently storing your shows, then just get a 2 or 3 TB HDD and use the max bit rate. By the time you get close to using up all that space, you would have not deleted a ton of shows.
post #3688 of 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikknightt View Post

I asked about the Pwr Cord becuz I was trying to figure out a reason for smaller file size..
A 720p capture at 12.0mb used to be about 3.5gb but a recent capture was down around 2.5gb.
This was after resetting the box by unplugging it...
.
A VBR capture file size is always going to be directly related to the amount of MOVEMENT - i.e. recording 2 hours of a static Station Test Pattern:
.
.
is going to use less space than recording a basketball game.
post #3689 of 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by cctvtech View Post

...I've also tried to keep the supply cool and decrease the load by checking the "Disable Bling LEDs" box in the Format Settings section of the Capture Module.
.
How many mA do you think those LEDs are consuming?
post #3690 of 3814
BUMP!
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearToLand View Post

SUBJECT: My Hauppauge PVR-1212 w/Win-TV is Randomly Not Recording Scheduled Shows...

...Any ideas as to why RANDOMLY some shows don't record?

Thanks! smile.gif
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