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SHARP LED-LCD, Anticipation Thread! - Page 9

post #241 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtms View Post

BTW, I don't care much about blooming. I'm hoping for more zones so that static contrast is improved.

Nobody seem to be reporting any problems with static contrast in this year sets. Last year Samsungs had fluctuating blacks problem which was evidently due to zones and annoying people. This is now gone so where do you see remaining problem with static contrast (in frontal view)?:
post #242 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Nobody seem to be reporting any problems with static contrast in this year sets. Last year Samsungs had fluctuating blacks problem which was evidently due to zones and annoying people. This is now gone so where do you see remaining problem with static contrast (in frontal view)?:

Are you saying that static contrast on 950 is the best videophiles can ever hope for and that any future Sony, Samsung, Pioneer sets will not have PQs looking visibly better than 950 or XBR8?
post #243 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtms View Post

Are you saying that static contrast on 950 is the best videophiles can ever hope for and that any future Sony, Samsung, Pioneer sets will not have PQs looking visibly better than 950 or XBR8?

One can say that video technology has movied on the curve of diminishing returns following the audio technology. There will be always improvements in ever smaller details. Videophiles will thus follow the audiophiles in their never ending quest for improved quality, even if illusory, but always fun .
post #244 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by happy hopping View Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blooming_(laser)#Blooming

From the above, they said blooming only occur w/ plasma, they didn't talk about LCD at all. So what's all these talk about blooming and zone?

LED blooming is due to the diffuser plate. Having a localized backlight means the diffuser plate spreads (blooms) out the light. I am very sensitive to this. In fact, on the 950 if the backlight is on max the blooming is so bad that I can see a sort of moving flashlight effect in the black bar areas of movies. On any sort of angle the issue is even worse.




Also, LED-LD has inherent black crush due to the variable static contrast. There are ways around this but it seems that Samsung has not implemented them yet.
1st pic = LED without local dimming
2nd pic = LED with local dimming
3rd pic = LED with local dimming and pixel compensation


Using both pixel and LED compensation algorithms can really mitigate these issues but is expensive and I would guess computationally intensive.

post #245 of 603
thank you very much. this is a 1000X better than the prev. page explanation. It looks like from the above, that (b) has the best picture quality.

Now, is there a diagram when those guys talk about the "zone"? because it's hard to understand what "zone" is, especially w/o a diagram.

And since this is a sharp LED LCD thread, are you guys saying the old Sharp has this issue?
post #246 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by st_o_p View Post

After digging some more, it seem the XS1 will have Bluetooth remote control. Huge disappointment. The Sony ZX1 goes for RF remote, and now Sharp goes for Bluetooth. Why?? To me that's a big point against it, as one cannot use universal remote. I mean how difficult would it be to put an IR receiver somewhere (even on the tuner box)

Your LCD only realistically connects to your cable or satellite most of the time. So if I were to watch TV, I usually walk into my TV room, turn on my integrated amp., then my TV. And I never need to touch TV remote until I turn off the TV.

Now, in about 10% of the time, some of us do watch DVD, if so, we need to use the remote to switch to say input 1. But w/ the price of gas the way it is, watching a movie on satellite is much cheaper than driving to the store, rent out a movie, and return it later.

In some rare occasion, some of us may connect our PC to the input of a Sharp 65" for the purpose of playing PC games, but most people don't have that set up.

In the end, why would you need your remote?
post #247 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

LED blooming is due to the diffuser plate. ....[images, images, images...]

xrox... can you give us the source for all those excellent illustrations, images, so we can get some more education ?

thanks

TVbc
post #248 of 603
That bluetooth remote may well be the wave of the future. If I am right then this is a feature that will be appreciated more over time as others migrate to what is probably a better technology. If you are buying top of the line then you probably are making a long term investment and bluetooth may be your protection "down the road".

And Hoppy hopping is right about using the TV remote only occasionally for most people. The satellite or cable remote are certainly more important.
post #249 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVbc View Post

xrox... can you give us the source for all those excellent illustrations, images, so we can get some more education ?

thanks

TVbc

1st graphic made myself with powerpoint.

2nd graphic (3 pics) is from a Samsung technical paper on LED local dimming (I'll post the reference when I dig it up later)
- note that this is supposed to show that the 3rd picture is best by reducing black crush using pixel compensation. There is a thread on LED local dimming on the flat panel forum that explains everything in detail.

3rd graphic (2 plots) is from an NHK internet article (I'll try and dig that up as well)
- note that the first plot shows 7 led zones and the desired luminence they produce depending on the type of compensation. The blue dotted line is the most accurate with regards to blooming/crosstalk but messes with white level uniformity per zone. This is LED compensation.
post #250 of 603
thanks i'll look for that thread, and for your references when you find them...it's nice to get some real information amongst all the conjecture.

TVbc
post #251 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by happy hopping View Post

thank you very much. this is a 1000X better than the prev. page explanation. It looks like from the above, that (b) has the best picture quality.

Now, is there a diagram when those guys talk about the "zone"? because it's hard to understand what "zone" is, especially w/o a diagram.

And since this is a sharp LED LCD thread, are you guys saying the old Sharp has this issue?

The C is by far the best picture... You can't see any of the stars on picture B. There are pictures of the "zones" on both the XBR8 threads and the 950 threads.
post #252 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

The C is by far the best picture... You can't see any of the stars on picture B. There are pictures of the "zones" on both the XBR8 threads and the 950 threads.

I actually like B aswell, The picture seems a bit sharper on B then C although you can see more stars on C....
post #253 of 603
I have a Olevia 65 LCD with a panel from Sharp, it has a viewing cone even when sitting right in front of it, the edges are lighter than the middle of the screen, is this the same as blooming?. I know my LCD has banding and I'm thinking about calling to get it replaced since some have had replacements that were perfect as far as the banding, but I guess this blooming will be with me no matter what I get. I thought the days of viewing cones were long gone with flat panels, I was really depressed to see it rear its ugly head on my LCD. I have a 20 Samsung LCD for my PC and it seems almost perfect. Since its 5 years old I thought I'd be getting about the same only larger, but its far more even than the Olevia, I like my Olevia but the banding right in the middle of the screen is killing me, other wise Dead Space for the PS3 is looking damn good.
post #254 of 603
When is sharp due to release there first LED display? size?
post #255 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

When is sharp due to release there first LED display?

Sharp LED series is XS-1 and it is just being released globally. In fact, first sightings of the sets in some shops are reported from Germany, both 52" and 65".

Amazingly, what those first people are reporting is one big disappointment of Sharp PQ due to the shock of price/PQ ratio, expectation was that for the price one can at least see in a shop LED LCD with stunning PQ. In truth, while the 65" size and depth are imposing, the PQ is not that superb at all, and supposedly this is not due to bad settings.

Beware: These reports require further verification.
post #256 of 603
were are these first people posting there comments on these new sets?
post #257 of 603
Probably Germany as well.
post #258 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by happy hopping View Post

Your LCD only realistically connects to your cable or satellite most of the time. So if I were to watch TV, I usually walk into my TV room, turn on my integrated amp., then my TV. And I never need to touch TV remote until I turn off the TV.

In some rare occasion, some of us may connect our PC to the input of a Sharp 65" for the purpose of playing PC games, but most people don't have that set up.

In the end, why would you need your remote?

I disagree with this. Although I do have a reciever that I will route the sound through for DVD's, normally I only use the sets speakers when I watch normal TV. I have the remote for the Sony DVR that I use set up to control volume on the set along with the other features of the DVR.

If the remote for the set was Bluetooth, to make volume adjustments I would have to have the second remote as well. This would be a pain IMO.
post #259 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by happy hopping View Post

Your LCD only realistically connects to your cable or satellite most of the time. So if I were to watch TV, I usually walk into my TV room, turn on my integrated amp., then my TV. And I never need to touch TV remote until I turn off the TV.

Now, in about 10% of the time, some of us do watch DVD, if so, we need to use the remote to switch to say input 1. But w/ the price of gas the way it is, watching a movie on satellite is much cheaper than driving to the store, rent out a movie, and return it later.

In some rare occasion, some of us may connect our PC to the input of a Sharp 65" for the purpose of playing PC games, but most people don't have that set up.

In the end, why would you need your remote?

Gee, what kind of reasoning is that - it's Ok cause we don't need remote for the TV. I personally need a remote. Yes, I can keep the Sharp's original remote next to my universal remote - it's just a pain. And, BTW I have also a projector, receiver, 2 DVD players and all kinds of other equipment; I need to control all of them and that's why I have universal remote. I'm just hoping that the bluetooth is in addition not in place of IR

Anyway, this TV is one big question mark at this point so I'm not losing sleep over the remote. But whoever figured that they can sell high end TV without IR remote - and that will be considered a plus - must be smoking something
post #260 of 603
Bluetooth is the future. You should start to get used to the superior technology.

I think it's funny to see what the idea of "a pain" is to the comfortable lazy persons.


OMG, I have to use TWO REMOTES!!!
post #261 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hynad View Post

Bluetooth is the future. You should start to get used to the superior technology.

I think it's funny to see what the idea of "a pain" is to the comfortable lazy persons.

Seen plenty of "superior" technology that was supposed to be the future and for some reason just didn't make it.

I don't see it as lazy that you should expect a high end set to have a "compatible" remote. When I say compatible, I mean IR that can be taught to any number of other universal remotes, so that my coffee table at home does not have remotes for the DVD, AVR, DVR SD, DVR HD, TV, subwoofer, Ipod, etc..... on it. OK maybe I am lazy, I just don't want to dust around them every week.

By your standards you would want us to have them all out all the time?
post #262 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNG View Post


If the remote for the set was Bluetooth, to make volume adjustments I would have to have the second remote as well. This would be a pain IMO.

I have been doing that for 10+ yr. I use an Sony ES integrated amp. piped to 5.1 speakers for all sound output. So when the commercial comes, I press the mute button, and then I focus on my work on computer screen. I don't use universal remote.
post #263 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Amazingly, what those first people are reporting is one big disappointment of Sharp PQ due to the shock of price/PQ ratio, expectation was that for the price one can at least see in a shop LED LCD with stunning PQ. In truth, while the 65" size and depth are imposing, the PQ is not that superb at all, and supposedly this is not due to bad settings.

Beware: These reports require further verification.

where's the review? Since this is a global launch, shouldn't there be some US review by now?

The bottom question is, is there any banding?

By the way, the PQ looks very good from their web site link.
post #264 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by happy hopping View Post

where's the review? Since this is a global launch, shouldn't there be some US review by now?The bottom question is, is there any banding? By the way, the PQ looks very good from their web site link.

Apparently the XS-1 sets went first for sale in Germany. They are in selected shops there. People who reported their PQ had no chance to change settings. No review is available yet.
post #265 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNG View Post

Seen plenty of "superior" technology that was supposed to be the future and for some reason just didn't make it.

I don't see it as lazy that you should expect a high end set to have a "compatible" remote. When I say compatible, I mean IR that can be taught to any number of other universal remotes, so that my coffee table at home does not have remotes for the DVD, AVR, DVR SD, DVR HD, TV, subwoofer, Ipod, etc..... on it. OK maybe I am lazy, I just don't want to dust around them every week.

By your standards you would want us to have them all out all the time?

You say you already use a single universal remote for all your stuff. What is so horrible to need a SECOND remote?

Bluetooth is superior in that you can access your menu without even pointing at the IR sensor. Compatible or not, it's just a second remote. So yeah, I guess you are lazy.

And by my standards, I don't see what's wrong with having a better technology surfacing and slowly taking the place of the antique one. But you know what? I'm sure a third party developer will manage to get this little IR into a Bluetooth remote. For people who might get a tendonitis if not for it.
post #266 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hynad View Post

You say you already use a single universal remote for all your stuff. What is so horrible to need a SECOND remote?

Bluetooth is superior in that you can access your menu without even pointing at the IR sensor. Compatible or not, it's just a second remote. So yeah, I guess you are lazy.

And by my standards, I don't see what's wrong with having a better technology surfacing and slowly taking the place of the antique one. But you know what? I'm sure a third party developer will manage to get this little IR into a Bluetooth remote. For people who might get a tendonitis if not for it.

This is stup1d discussion. Not having IR is clearly a downside. If it doesn't bother you - good for you, but it bothers the rest of us. Don't get me started on potential downsides of bluetooth (and there are plenty). But enough OT-ing this thread.

Anyone knows if the XS1 is out in the US yet, or if not - when?
post #267 of 603
Who cares about a remote. Its not that big of a deal, if you dont like it dont buy it, and be on your way.

And stop posting about it.
post #268 of 603
The sharpusa web site still doesn't even show this model as available yet. As for the remote battle, not wanting to be forced to use a 2nd remote is not lazy. If someone is going to spend a couple hundred dollars on a quality remote, the purpose is to eliminate the clutter and confusion of multiple remotes. I have a Harmony that controls all components of my AV home theater, except one, my PS3. Sony decided to go the BT only route as well, and that is the only thing I dont like about the PS3.
post #269 of 603
Dude's stop with the remote crap, **** you in your stupid remotes.
post #270 of 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by potnhd View Post

Dude's stop with the remote crap, **** you in your stupid remotes.

Eloquently stated. Thanks for your input which provided even less value to this thread. If this discussion is for the anticipated release of a new tv and the new tv has a feature that is less than desirable, by all means it should be discussed. It is not like there is much more info available on this set yet. Unless you have some breaking news that could change the topic of conversation, why spew garbage?
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