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SHARP LED-LCD, Anticipation Thread! - Page 3

post #61 of 603
9/1/08 at 8:05am
This is a 120HZ TV, yes?
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post #62 of 603
9/1/08 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KLee View Post

This is a 120HZ TV, yes?

I would expect it to be when sold in the US or other countries with 60Hz AC power.
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post #63 of 603
9/1/08 at 8:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

I would expect it to be when sold in the US or other countries with 60Hz AC power.

120Hz as in 120 frames per sec
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post #64 of 603
9/1/08 at 8:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KLee View Post

120Hz as in 120 frames per sec

Yes, I knew what you meant. Countries with PAL have 50Hz power and as a result get the 100Hz TVs. Countries with NTSC have 60Hz power and as a result get 120Hz TVs.
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post #65 of 603
9/1/08 at 9:23am
Actually PAL countries get both 100Hz and 120Hz.
if the source is 24Hz we get 120Hz and if the video is in PAL then we get 100Hz.
for NTSC counties it are actually also two different modes but both with 120Hz that makes you think it's the same 120Hz but the processing is totally different.
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post #66 of 603
9/2/08 at 4:14am
Thread Starter 
German interview with Frank Bolton from SHARP;

www.ce-trade.de/epaper/CE_Trade_0908_roe.pdf

(Side 22)

Babelfish
Quote:


Therefore that lies Price for both equipment diagonals within the range of five figures.

So about 10000 EUR for only the 52" XS1!
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post #67 of 603
9/2/08 at 4:18am
They'll just fly off the shelf with that kind of pricing.
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post #68 of 603
9/2/08 at 1:00pm
10,000.00 EUR for a 52" LCD?!?!?!?!?! Are you serious? They are sounding like Sony.
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post #69 of 603
9/2/08 at 6:15pm
A Canadian Sharp dealer told me they where just told the 65" XS1 would be $15K Canadian. Which probably means it would be $10K in the States. Not bad, if it turns out to be true.

That German interview seems to say that both would be within $10K EUR, as in less then. And which would mean substantially less then $20K US in the States and Canada.

The 70" Sony LED was something like $35K.
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post #70 of 603
9/2/08 at 7:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nambit View Post

Okay, so now there are a bunch of LED-based TVs coming from numerous manufacturers. Sharp has some interesting goodies:

1. 65 inch!! (Yes!)
2. Thin bezel
3. RBG-LED (Same as Sony)

Interestingly, the press release seems to tout the local-dimming as a form of
power efficiency feature instead of black-level improvement.

Ah well, I just hope Sharp is able to re-establish themselves as a leader in LCD
technology. Seems Sony/Samsung have roared past them in recent years. Seems
like Sharp has become another Matrox.

If they do it right (i.e. no major issues like banding), and the 65 inch isn't too overly inflated in price, I think they will find themselves a strong nitch, especially for all of us who find 52/55" too small.
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post #71 of 603
9/2/08 at 7:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JX2006 View Post

A Canadian Sharp dealer told me they where just told the 65" XS1 would be $15K Canadian. Which probably means it would be $10K in the States. Not bad, if it turns out to be true.

That German interview seems to say that both would be within $10K EUR, as in less then. And which would mean substantially less then $20K US in the States and Canada.

The 70" Sony LED was something like $35K.

Like I said, if it is priced properly. Sorry Sharp, you almost got me going, but that price is outrageous. I guess they want to be a "boutique" tv manufacturer.
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post #72 of 603
9/3/08 at 6:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad View Post

Like I said, if it is priced properly. Sorry Sharp, you almost got me going, but that price is outrageous. I guess they want to be a "boutique" tv manufacturer.

It's their first generation RGB led's if I'm not mistaken, I wouldn't want to sell many of the first generation either. Combine that with the much more expensive light source. --> high price
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post #73 of 603
9/3/08 at 6:36am
Well, I guess i'll have to look elsewhere with that price, if true. I mean, the
price looks to be far higher than Sony's LED. Truthfully, I'm more interested
in the sharp but the price appears to be too steep.
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post #74 of 603
9/3/08 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carled View Post

I wonder what the "bit depth expansion" entails?

Plugging the least significant bits with zeros?
Some kind of dynamic greyscale?
12 bit panel drivers?
Marketing Gimmick?

Yes
Yes
Yes
No

You're forgetting about the additional color depth supported by HDMI standard.

Also, lets say you do some image processing which does math on the bits.

1000b is the last 4 LSB in the 12 bit driver
1b is the last bit in the 8 bit driver

Now with processing, we do a .5 multiply in hardware
0100b is the 4 LSB in the 12 bit driver
0b is the last bit in the 8 bit driver

As you can see the 8 bit has completely turned off any light.
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post #75 of 603
9/3/08 at 4:48pm
Just posted about an hour ago on Engadget:

"Sharp is unleashing two of 'em (again) today in Denver. The 52-inch LC-52XS1U-S and 65-inch LC-65XS1U-S both sport newly-developed 10-bit Advanced Super View (ASV) LCD panels and feature native 1080p resolutions, AQUOS Net capabilities, an RGB-LED backlight system and a dynamic contrast ratio of over 1,000,000:1. You'll also find a super thin integrated sound system powered by a 1-bit digital amplifier, and the entire set is just one-inch thick at its thinnest part. "

Superior Picture and Sound Quality
Using the latest version of Sharp's proprietary 10-bit Advanced Super View LCD panel, this next-generation series incorporates a new RGB-LED backlight system for an unprecedented 150 percent NTSC color gamut and extremely high Dynamic Contrast Ratio of more than 1,000,000:1 for extremely deep blacks and crisp picture quality. The strong color reproduction scale significantly improves color accuracy for dark scenes and delivers a brighter, more vivid array of colors.

To deliver clear, natural sound to match the high quality of the picture, Sharp joined with Pioneer Corporation to develop a thin-design speaker system that combines with Sharp's unique 1-bit digital amplifier.

Dramatic, Space-Saving Design
With a depth of only one inch at its thinnest part, the new Limited Edition Series TVs provide an extremely small footprint, establishing a new design standard for LCD TV and allowing for an even greater variety of installation styles, such as unobtrusive wall mounting. These TVs offer a metallic edge around the frame for a stylish, sophisticated look, giving consumers more freedom to incorporate the new models into the design of modern interiors.
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post #76 of 603
9/3/08 at 7:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalGriffin View Post

Yes
Yes
Yes
No

Actually, Westa just confirmed they have 10 bit panel drivers, so at least one of your yes' are wrong.

Quote:


You're forgetting about the additional color depth supported by HDMI standard.

No I haven't. I'm hardly putting a lot of concern on HDR right now, given that there is no source material whatsoever and won't be in the immediate future.

Quote:


Also, lets say you do some image processing which does math on the bits.

1000b is the last 4 LSB in the 12 bit driver
1b is the last bit in the 8 bit driver

Now with processing, we do a .5 multiply in hardware
0100b is the 4 LSB in the 12 bit driver
0b is the last bit in the 8 bit driver

As you can see the 8 bit has completely turned off any light.

Actually, I'd temporally alternate between xxxxxxx1 and xxxxxxx0 (dither).
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post #77 of 603
9/3/08 at 7:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

Just posted about an hour ago on Engadget:

"Sharp is unleashing two of 'em (again) today in Denver. The 52-inch LC-52XS1U-S and 65-inch LC-65XS1U-S both sport newly-developed 10-bit Advanced Super View (ASV) LCD panels and feature native 1080p resolutions, AQUOS Net capabilities, an RGB-LED backlight system and a dynamic contrast ratio of over 1,000,000:1. You'll also find a super thin integrated sound system powered by a 1-bit digital amplifier, and the entire set is just one-inch thick at its thinnest part. "

Superior Picture and Sound Quality
Using the latest version of Sharp's proprietary 10-bit Advanced Super View LCD panel, this next-generation series incorporates a new RGB-LED backlight system for an unprecedented 150 percent NTSC color gamut and extremely high Dynamic Contrast Ratio of more than 1,000,000:1 for extremely deep blacks and crisp picture quality. The strong color reproduction scale significantly improves color accuracy for dark scenes and delivers a brighter, more vivid array of colors.

To deliver clear, natural sound to match the high quality of the picture, Sharp joined with Pioneer Corporation to develop a thin-design speaker system that combines with Sharp's unique 1-bit digital amplifier.

Dramatic, Space-Saving Design
With a depth of only one inch at its thinnest part, the new Limited Edition Series TVs provide an extremely small footprint, establishing a new design standard for LCD TV and allowing for an even greater variety of installation styles, such as unobtrusive wall mounting. These TVs offer a metallic edge around the frame for a stylish, sophisticated look, giving consumers more freedom to incorporate the new models into the design of modern interiors.

gives me shivers just looking at it, lol. Did a little calculation today, and a 65" would be 6" taller (screen), over 11" wider, and over 56% more screen than a 52" set. Damn, I hope the other companies get on this 65" bandwagon so we can start seeing some more aggressive pricing.
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post #78 of 603
9/3/08 at 8:02pm
I only want to know one thing. How many zones?
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post #79 of 603
9/3/08 at 8:42pm
it maybe 10K+, but price drop will be soon when 12G Panasonic Plasma comes


http://www.xs-aquos.com/
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post #80 of 603
9/4/08 at 2:29pm
I can't really blame people for having the fear of banding put into them so badly by Sharp, but you folks DO realize that by it's very nature LED backlighting will completely eliminate this particular problem right? These prices will no doubt end up getting corrected too. The market will not support tactics like that anymore, and premium offerings from other brands have dropped in price steeply and steadily.

I will bet anything that this panel becomes the guts of the upcoming Pioneer Kuro LCD series that was announced a while back.
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post #81 of 603
9/4/08 at 3:11pm
You're assuming that the banding is caused by the backlight. It's not... Therefore changing the backlight to RGB LED local area dimming won't solve it.
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post #82 of 603
9/4/08 at 4:28pm
There have been 2 kinds of banding in Sharp televisions:
1) This is inherent in the glass itself due to manufacturing problems. These bands can be horizontal or vertical depending on how the panel was cut from the mother substrate. Sharp has greatly reduced this type of banding in the later models.
2) The other is caused by poorly aligned backlight bulbs. The fluorescent bulbs are U shaped and are long and narrow and run horizontally. All it takes is a slight rotation of the bulb and you'll see bright and dark horizontal bands.

The LED backlight obviously eliminates the second type of banding.

Bob
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post #83 of 603
9/4/08 at 4:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by radavisgb View Post

2) The other is caused by poorly aligned backlight bulbs. The fluorescent bulbs are U shaped and are long and narrow and run horizontally. All it takes is a slight rotation of the bulb and you'll see bright and dark horizontal bands.

The LED backlight obviously eliminates the second type of banding.

I'm sorry, but that's just not true. All the ones I've seen are not U's, but straight tubes. A U shaped tube would cause an inherently non uniform backlight. However, even if they were used and were rotated slightly they would not cause bright and dark horizontal bands. The tubes emit light from all sides just like the larger tubes used in commercial and home lighting, so a rotation would change nothing.
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post #84 of 603
9/4/08 at 5:45pm
Tension in the transparent panels causing uneven liquid crystal solution.
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post #85 of 603
9/5/08 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

You're assuming that the banding is caused by the backlight. It's not... Therefore changing the backlight to RGB LED local area dimming won't solve it.

I believe the problem wasn't the bulb themselves. It was how the light grating which distributes the light was applied to the glass and how it was lined up with the tubes. You don't have the same light grating with LEDs.

Again, I respectfully request that you quit being such a sour-puss and have an open mind. You aren't contributing to this thread, just bashing every chance you get. Until you get your hands on a model, or see a review, please quit bashing. You are bashing vaporware at this point for a defect that may or may not be there, and that's just silly.

And yes, a slight rotation of a bulb can cause a sudden drop in light (causing a banding effect.) The light falloff is a function of incidence angle, IOR, and light projection angle. (The edge of a bulb doesn't appears as bright as the center.) It's non-linear, and therefor causes a sudden light shift. Thinner bulbs (from thinner sets) make this more problematic.

Sharp also noted there was a problem with how the source panel was preped. I believe this problem was solved.
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post #86 of 603
9/5/08 at 10:49am
according to this the 42" will also be released at the same time and prices aren't announced yet.

Quote:


New LCD TVs include the Aquos HDTV LE (Limited Edition) series with LED backlighting in three screen sizes 65 inches (LC-65XS1U-S), 52 inches (LC-52XS1U-S) and 42-inches (LC-42XS1U-S). All ship this month at pricing to be announced.

Models in the series include a cabinet depth measuring less than 1 inch at its thinnest point. Features include 10-bit Advanced Super View 1080p LCD panels, and Fine Motion Enhanced 120Hz frame rate conversion with a 4ms response time for smooth motion sequences.

Sharp claims a high-contrast performance level using its new LED back-lighting system, which employs Spectral LD (Local Dimming) technology in conjunction with an ultra-high performance RGB LED backlight for an improved color gamut and deep black level reproduction. The technology, which adjusts brightness levels across different segments of the screen, is said to save on energy consumption by reducing overall brightness output.

To achieve the thin cabinet design, the LE series has a separate AVC system set-top box for all input terminals. The box then connects to the screen via an included HDMI cable or with an optional wireless HDMI connection to eliminate cable clutter. Source inputs include five HDMI connections as well as dual HD component terminals, all of which are compatible with 1080p signals.

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6592608.html
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post #87 of 603
9/5/08 at 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JX2006 View Post

A Canadian Sharp dealer told me they where just told the 65" XS1 would be $15K Canadian. Which probably means it would be $10K in the States. Not bad, if it turns out to be true.
That German interview seems to say that both would be within $10K EUR, as in less then. And which would mean substantially less then $20K US in the States and Canada.

It seems certain 65 incher will be 5-digit. 5-digit 52" is unbelievable, it is resonable to assume it will be 4 digit close to the Sony 55".

Altogether 5-digit prices look bad, hopefully Sharp will make their minds and sets the 65" price in 4-digit 9999 which will look cheap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JX2006 View Post


The 70" Sony LED was something like $35K.

Yes, but the new Sony 70" XBR-7 will be in the range of 15 kbux. It will be interesting competition between the 70" NonLED and 65" LED.
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post #88 of 603
9/5/08 at 3:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalGriffin View Post

I believe the problem wasn't the bulb themselves. It was how the light grating which distributes the light was applied to the glass and how it was lined up with the tubes. You don't have the same light grating with LEDs.

Again, I respectfully request that you quit being such a sour-puss and have an open mind. You aren't contributing to this thread, just bashing every chance you get. Until you get your hands on a model, or see a review, please quit bashing. You are bashing vaporware at this point for a defect that may or may not be there, and that's just silly.

And yes, a slight rotation of a bulb can cause a sudden drop in light (causing a banding effect.) The light falloff is a function of incidence angle, IOR, and light projection angle. (The edge of a bulb doesn't appears as bright as the center.) It's non-linear, and therefor causes a sudden light shift. Thinner bulbs (from thinner sets) make this more problematic.

Sharp also noted there was a problem with how the source panel was preped. I believe this problem was solved.

I used to be a Engineer at a LCD company, and I have also designed LED and CCFL backlights for LCD displays (both edgelit and direct view). What you're saying is not true. I have a pretty deep background on LCDs and backlight technology that I am drawing from. I'm not a fly by night Wikipedia reading wannabe. If you choose to disregard my opinion feel free, but don't assume I am uninformed on LCD and backlight design and operation.

The CCFL tubes do not projection angles. They are omni directional in emission. They are actually brighter at the ends than the center. There is no light grating on the back of a LCD panel pertaining to the CCFL backlight.

Contrary to your opinion I am adding to this thread. I am adding the fact that a change in backlight technology will not solve the banding issue Sharp has had in the past. Perhaps they have finally solved it, but it won't have been by tweaks to the backlight.
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post #89 of 603
9/5/08 at 3:42pm
Stereodude. What would be better? A LED LCD BL that's edgelit or direct view?
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post #90 of 603
9/5/08 at 3:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by agustus View Post

Stereodude. What would be better? A LED LCD BL that's edgelit or direct view?

Direct view allows for local area dimming. Edgelit allows for a very thin set. Pick your poison.
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