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Echostar TR-40 - Page 3  

post #61 of 421
Sure, I'll gladly give that a try, kenavs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeper View Post

Symbios,

The TR-40CRA remote looks the same as the DTVPal.

Is it still the 1.5 NDB? (Number on backside)

Beeper

No 3.2 to be found here... It's the same 1.5 remote.
post #62 of 421
Symbios,

Are you saying that your TR-40 remote looks identical to the DTVPal remote (like a mini version of a normal Dish receiver remote), but says 3.2 on the back?

DTVPal remotes have said 1.5 NDB on the back and have, unfortunately, used the same codes as some older Dish receivers. - Rumor has been that Dish might issue a 3.2 remote that addresses that problem.
post #63 of 421
The test results are in...

I set the DTVPal and the TR-40 up identically: both were locked onto KCNC, both had 5 timers set to the same stations and were set to fire at the same times.

I turned the boxes off and let them sit for 4 hours.

First, I powered the DTVPal up and let it download guide data. I checked its timers and found the last 2 had been deleted for no reason and the first 3 had been changed to record stations I never told it to.

I then powered the TR-40 up and anxiously waited while it downloaded guide data. I checked its timers and found all of them remained intact. Absolutely nothing had been altered.
post #64 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWind View Post

Symbios,

Are you saying that your TR-40 remote looks identical to the DTVPal remote (like a mini version of a normal Dish receiver remote), but says 3.2 on the back?

DTVPal remotes have said 1.5 NDB on the back and have, unfortunately, used the same codes as some older Dish receivers. - Rumor has been that Dish might issue a 3.2 remote that addresses that problem.

Sorry, wasn't very clear. It still comes with 1.5.
post #65 of 421
thanks for the results symbios...now i'm definitely leaning towards the tr40-cra...
post #66 of 421
I am leaning toward using 1 of my 2 coupon on TR40-cra assuming it's totally bug free...
post #67 of 421
Great news! Thanks so much for testing this!!
post #68 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Symbios View Post

The test results are in...

...
I then powered the TR-40 up and anxiously waited while it downloaded guide data. I checked its timers and found all of them remained intact. Absolutely nothing had been altered.

sounds great...so when does dish inform us DTVPal owners that we'll be getting $20 back and a TR40-CRA shipped free of charge?
post #69 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Symbios View Post

The test results are in...

I set the DTVPal and the TR-40 up identically: both were locked onto KCNC, both had 5 timers set to the same stations and were set to fire at the same times.

I turned the boxes off and let them sit for 4 hours.

First, I powered the DTVPal up and let it download guide data. I checked its timers and found the last 2 had been deleted for no reason and the first 3 had been changed to record stations I never told it to.

I then powered the TR-40 up and anxiously waited while it downloaded guide data. I checked its timers and found all of them remained intact. Absolutely nothing had been altered.

Thank you very, very, very much!
I believe you may have just provided one of the most important data points in understanding this beast.
It sure looks like digital TVGOS is linked to the fatal downloads being triggered. I strongly suspect that people who are currently singing the praises of their DTVpal boxes, which they think work perfectly for timing, may be in for a rude surprise when a local CBS station starts transmitting digital TVGOS.
At least it sounds like they are making some progress toward making these things usable as front ends for old recorders.
I suspect that DISH could do a lot of testing by just using units in their own building. They could deliver the standard antenna feed to some units, and also send the same antenna signal, with KCNC-DT filtered out, to some other ones. I think they would have the 2 critical market situations available to run their tests.
It is hard to understand how it was not spotted right away with DISH based here. The kind of people I worked with would have grabbed models and had the set up to play with in every lab we had.
Once again, Thank you very much!
post #70 of 421
I bet they do the upgrade by OTA -- and that the CSR who said it couldn't all be fixed via OTA was referring to the remote, which was also on his list. I would think DTVPal owners would be ok with waiting a bit longer, to be sure these TR-40s work across the country. For a problem of this complexity, I don't think the wait has been all that bad. I hoped for a fix to the DTT900, and had to live with the chirp.

pabeader seemed to think the firmware could be OTA -- for all we know they have already tried it out on the beta testers, assuming they can select the upgrade by version.
post #71 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

I bet they do the upgrade by OTA.
...

I really doubt it!
post #72 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

I bet they do the upgrade by OTA -- and that the CSR who said it couldn't all be fixed via OTA was referring to the remote, which was also on his list. I would think DTVPal owners would be ok with waiting a bit longer, to be sure these TR-40s work across the country. For a problem of this complexity, I don't think the wait has been all that bad. I hoped for a fix to the DTT900, and had to live with the chirp.

pabeader seemed to think the firmware could be OTA -- for all we know they have already tried it out on the beta testers, assuming they can select the upgrade by version.

......Perhaps Dish Network is hoping that many people who are (understandably) dissapointed with the "DTV PAL" will replace it with the TR-40 (assuming that they can somehow obtain additional coupons).
It's just a thought......but this would be a viable solution to the nightmarish timer issues......at least for some......assuming that the bugs are truly exterminated!

......watch for 'DTV PAL" paperweights (selling for next to nothing) on E-bay!
post #73 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenavs View Post

I strongly suspect that people who are currently singing the praises of their DTVpal boxes, which they think work perfectly for timing, may be in for a rude surprise when a local CBS station starts transmitting digital TVGOS.

Sorry, but my market is supplying TVGOS now and I am still singing the praises of this box. Man, you guys just want to be pissed. The box has problems, but nothing monumental that a physical swap for a new DTVPal with 1.03 won't fix. I know, we might have to spend $10 on shipping it back to EchoStar / DISH Network, but my coupons were expiring and I wanted it for its awesome EPG. Any first adopters feel the growing pains. I've learned not to buy first generation Apple products because of this.
post #74 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiga View Post

Sorry, but my market is supplying TVGOS now and I am still singing the praises of this box. Man, you guys just want to be pissed. The box has problems, but nothing monumental that a physical swap for a new DTVPal with 1.03 won't fix. I know, we might have to spend $10 on shipping it back to EchoStar / DISH Network, but my coupons were expiring and I wanted it for its awesome EPG. Any first adopters feel the growing pains. I've learned not to buy first generation Apple products because of this.

You seem to be the first person, I recall, with the F100 or F100 firmware, who clearly stated they were in a digital TVGOS market and getting the time lock, who was trouble free.
Let me get this clear. Have you done the same experiment that Symbios just performed?
1-Set several timers and noted the times and stations.
2-Put the unit in standby for at least 4 hours.
3-Turned on the unit, and observed whether the EPG download took place.
4-Verified that all the timers were still as originally set.
If that works, you will have wiped out the theory that the digital TVGOS station detection will always cause the fatal download on powerup, which seems to corrupt the timers.
post #75 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenavs View Post

You seem to be the first person, I recall, with the F100 or F100 firmware, who clearly stated they were in a digital TVGOS market and getting the time lock, who was trouble free.

I'm not using timers. I've stated that fact in a few posts, maybe not this thread though.

I'm just tired of people swaying those that probably don't own VCRs. My EPG works and I totally dig it, especially being a TiVo guy. The time was off, but it was the local CBS station. One telephone message to the station's engineer and a day later the time was accurate.

Don't get my wrong, the box is not flawless, but hell, swap it out right before your 90 days and get one with the latest firmware. We were early adopters and we could have bought other converters.
post #76 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiga View Post

I'm not using timers. I've stated that fact in a few posts, maybe not this thread though.

I'm just tired of people swaying those that probably don't own VCRs. My EPG works and I totally dig it, especially being a TiVo guy. The time was off, but it was the local CBS station. One telephone message to the station's engineer and a day later the time was accurate.

Don't get my wrong, the box is not flawless, but hell, swap it out right before your 90 days and get one with the latest firmware. We were early adopters and we could have bought other converters.

Considering that you were replying to this line in my post which you quoted:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenavs View Post

I strongly suspect that people who are currently singing the praises of their DTVpal boxes, which they think work perfectly for timing, may be in for a rude surprise when a local CBS station starts transmitting digital TVGOS.

and which was immediately preceded by this line which you snipped:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenavs View Post

It sure looks like digital TVGOS is linked to the fatal downloads being triggered.

I think many would have thought you were refuting a direct linkage between the digital TVGOS detection and the timer problems. I think it would have been helpful if you had made it clear that either: You do not know if timers work for you, or you know they don't, but you just don't care.

IMHO: Most would agree that my post was clearly focused on the timer issues, as were the Symbios test results that my post was responding to. It is fine that you do not care about the timers, but please don't confuse those who are trying to get a handle on the timer issues, and who might be at risk of timer problems in the future, even though they do not experience any at this time. I really don't think there is going to some Magic OTA update, or a recall that will be well publicized to every one who bought the DTVpal, so I don't want people to think that just because their timers are working now, they can be confident that there unit is immune from the problem.
post #77 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiga View Post

I'm not using timers. I've stated that fact in a few posts, maybe not this thread though.

I'm just tired of people swaying those that probably don't own VCRs. My EPG works and I totally dig it, especially being a TiVo guy.

Users like me have only one reason to purchase this box and that is for the Timers for existing NTSC recording devices. If I didn't want timers, there are better boxes. As posted by kenavs, Timers are the major selling point of this box and need to be dealt with.

If someone wants to purchase this box and not use the Timers, then fine. I don't believe anyone here has discouraged that.
post #78 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Symbios View Post

The test results are in...

I set the DTVPal and the TR-40 up identically: both were locked onto KCNC, both had 5 timers set to the same stations and were set to fire at the same times.

I turned the boxes off and let them sit for 4 hours.

First, I powered the DTVPal up and let it download guide data. I checked its timers and found the last 2 had been deleted for no reason and the first 3 had been changed to record stations I never told it to.

I then powered the TR-40 up and anxiously waited while it downloaded guide data. I checked its timers and found all of them remained intact. Absolutely nothing had been altered.

Thank you very much for taking your time to do these tests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nwiser View Post

sounds great...so when does dish inform us DTVPal owners that we'll be getting $20 back and a TR40-CRA shipped free of charge?

Doubt that will ever happen but it does drive home the point that at least one of the problems may have been fixed by Dish, yet we are still not hearing anything official from them regarding our defective DTVPals.
post #79 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiga View Post

I'm not using timers. I've stated that fact in a few posts, maybe not this thread though.



Don't get my wrong, the box is not flawless, but hell, swap it out right before your 90 days and get one with the latest firmware. We were early adopters and we could have bought other converters.

If you had bothered to read the main Pal thread you would know that to just "swap it out right before your 90 days and get one with the latest firmware" is NOT the easiest thing to do with a company that is willing to send a tech TO YOUR HOUSE rather than to admit they have defective product in the field and, indeed, still being sold to unsuspecting consumers.
post #80 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by biker19 View Post

When they were finally going to ship it they saw an opportunity to make another $20 - what business owner wouldn't?

One that wasn't a deceitful, greedy slime bucket?

Oh, wait, you're right.
post #81 of 421
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Symbios View Post

I see no absolutely no differences between the TR-40CRA and the DTVPal.[/url]

how can you say that when your own pictures clearly shows the TR-40CRA box is simply brown cardboard while the DTVPAL box is full color.
post #82 of 421
I'm colorblind.
post #83 of 421
just a quick question...sorry if it has been answered. Is the echostar TR-40 coming out supposed to be identical to the Dish TR40-CRA except different branding? I'm guessing the echostar tr40 will be just like the tr40-cra except it won't be a limited edition?

also, with all this talk about the f103 version seemingly working, it seems like no one with a dtvpal has tried to get a replacement? I understand it must be a hard process...but i thought trp2525 was working on it, but he hasn't posted an update yet.
post #84 of 421
I just looked for warranty info on the TR40-CRA website. I found none except for the statement that all sales are final. Anyone have other info?
post #85 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheaplikeafox View Post

just a quick question...sorry if it has been answered. Is the echostar TR-40 coming out supposed to be identical to the Dish TR40-CRA except different branding? I'm guessing the echostar tr40 will be just like the tr40-cra except it won't be a limited edition?

also, with all this talk about the f103 version seemingly working, it seems like no one with a dtvpal has tried to get a replacement? I understand it must be a hard process...but i thought trp2525 was working on it, but he hasn't posted an update yet.

Who knows what the deal is with the TR-40. It may never be released. I stopped trying to figure out the reasoning behind all of these different models a long time ago. It made my head hurt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Kolton View Post

I just looked for warranty info on the TR40-CRA website. I found none except for the statement that all sales are final. Anyone have other info?

The warranty is the same as the DTVPal. 90 days parts / 90 days labor.
post #86 of 421
I just discovered that the TR-40CRA is actually pretty good at keeping time on its own. After that timer test I did yesterday, I disconnected the antenna from the TR-40 so that I could hook it back up to my HD tuner. This afternoon I walked by and happened to notice the green light on the TR-40 was on. I turned on my TV to see what it was doing and realized it turned on because one of my test timers went off.

Without any signal at all, it still fired at the right time and on the right channel (although it was just a "Signal has been lost" message). I was pretty impressed... (which makes me sad a little).

I took it a step further and unplugged it to force it to do a guide download with no signal at all. I checked my timers again, and they were fine.
post #87 of 421
Symbios,

sorry if you answered already, but does your TR40 gets kind of hot if you put your hand on top of it?
post #88 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Symbios View Post

I just discovered that the TR-40CRA is actually pretty good at keeping time on its own. After that timer test I did yesterday, I disconnected the antenna from the TR-40 so that I could hook it back up to my HD tuner. This afternoon I walked by and happened to notice the green light on the TR-40 was on. I turned on my TV to see what it was doing and realized it turned on because one of my test timers went off.

Without any signal at all, it still fired at the right time and on the right channel (although it was just a "Signal has been lost" message). I was pretty impressed... (which makes me sad a little).

I took it a step further and unplugged it to force it to do a guide download with no signal at all. I checked my timers again, and they were fine.

thanks again for sharing your tr40-cra timer experiences with us! now i'm looking forward to getting one once my coupons get in... I think the tr40-cra is a worth risking a coupon on...
post #89 of 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseShip View Post

Symbios,

sorry if you answered already, but does your TR40 gets kind of hot if you put your hand on top of it?

It gets warm, but I wouldn't say it's hot. I dug out my infrared thermometer and tested the top, it measured about 98.8°F. The bottom where the CPU is, measured 112.4°F, which I still wouldn't say is hot.

The RF jacks, however, will burn you if you hold them long enough. But that's actually fairly common with ATSC tuners.
post #90 of 421
Thanks for the inform. I got 2 coupons...maybe I'll risk 1 of them...since there doesn't seem to be other timer based box to choose from except Zinwell. I'd prefer get one in store, but they don't sell this in store...have to sit on this one for just a little while before I make a decision.
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