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Pioneer PDP 5020FD or Panasonic TH-50PZ800U - Page 3

post #61 of 121
then im sorry that you dont have a good sight then auditor because real life results and specs show otherwise .....

even D-nice perferd his 9g non elite 6020 over his 8g elite 1150... think why he would pefer the inproved PQ which is 5x inproved blacks not 5 %....
post #62 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Just a slight improve is right. In fact I have a hard time telling the difference.

I imagine you do.
post #63 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

Take it from someone who has owned both.

The 9G blacks are considerably better than the 8G. They are a little brighter also.
Even with the lack of controls, I would consider the 9G non-elite before even an 8G elite. Those blacks really do make a big difference when it comes to detail, color depth, contrast.

statistically though the blacks arent that much more improved, it's only by a few hundreths of a FTL this time. The only reason the percentage improvement is so high is because it was already so low to begin with.

While i can pick out an 8G kuro in a store due to the slight black difference, i cannot pick out a 9G, the difference just isnt that obvious.
post #64 of 121
the black inproved by 5x not 5% and the lowest measured is 0.00066 on the 9g

on the 8g i belive the lowest was 0.004
post #65 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by spincut View Post

statistically though the blacks arent that much more improved, it's only by a few hundreths of a FTL this time. The only reason the percentage improvement is so high is because it was already so low to begin with.

While i can pick out an 8G kuro in a store due to the slight black difference, i cannot pick out a 9G, the difference just isnt that obvious.

You are correct, the differences are slight at best. However they do a great job of marketing.
post #66 of 121
The differences in black levels in store may not be so obvious but if you view in a darkened room it is. Maybe not in brighter scenes as much but it's there. If you can't tell that much of a difference then black levels aren't as important to you as you think they are. And anyone who can't tell that much of a difference between the 8G and 9G shouldn't get very excited about infinite blacks because the difference between the 9G and infinite will be less than the difference between the 8G and the 9G.
post #67 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

Take it from someone who has owned both.

The 9G blacks are considerably better than the 8G. They are a little brighter also.
Even with the lack of controls, I would consider the 9G non-elite before even an 8G elite. Those blacks really do make a big difference when it comes to detail, color depth, contrast.

I had a 6010 and a 6020 and I can attest that what Chad says is true with the black levels.
post #68 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

I had a 6010 and a 6020 and I can attest that what Chad says is true with the black levels.

To some, the Kuro is perfection. Even thought we know its not.
post #69 of 121
I think even Kuro owners know they are far from perfection, we are still years away from the "perfect" display. But yes, today for most they are as close as you can get or a high end PJ if you prefer size over performance.
post #70 of 121
Pioneer PDP-6020fd:$3,995(Once added to Cart)

Panasonic TH-58PZ800U:$3,699
( Both from Bhphotovideo)

Just a $300 difference
Is it worth it?

What does the pansonic have over the pioneer?
The Pioneer over the panasonic?
post #71 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by caveman ruby View Post

Pioneer PDP-6020fd:$3,995(Once added to Cart)

Panasonic TH-58PZ800U:$3,699
( Both from Bhphotovideo)

Just a $300 difference
Is it worth it?

What does the pansonic have over the pioneer?
The Pioneer over the panasonic?

No.

$300 is lot of money in this economy to spend on minimal display quality differences.

btw, you're not supposed to discuss price around here.
post #72 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

No.

$300 is lot of money in this economy to spend on minimal display quality differences.

btw, you're not supposed to discuss price around here.

are you kidding me?? the differences are worth 300 easy.
If you knew the differences you probably would not make statements like this.
And I am not talking about walking past them in BB.
minimal display quality differences???
post #73 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

No.

$300 is lot of money in this economy to spend on minimal display quality differences.

btw, you're not supposed to discuss price around here.

The differences all depend on viewing situation. Remember all those "SED Killing" remarks all those media people were touting that you got so offended with?

It all depends on how challenging the environment is. AKA how dark the room is.

In the darker rooms the 9g Kuro is quite a jump from the 8g. I remember quite clearly from my old Kuro and seeing a new 151FD.

Diminishing returns is approaching for contrast videophiles. But just to not sound like a plasma fanboy... I've seen OLED. And OLED is insanity.

If you blow it up to 50 inches, I'll take OLED over a 9g Kuro because my room and tastes merit a dark viewing area.
post #74 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

are you kidding me?? the differences are worth 300 easy.
If you knew the differences you probably would not make statements like this.
And I am not talking about walking past them in BB.
minimal display quality differences???

I do know the differences and they're not a great as you want people to believe. I've have seen the 6020 and as I said before, its not much of improvement over the 6010.

The Kuro has reached the point of diminishing returns!!
post #75 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

The differences all depend on viewing situation. Remember all those "SED Killing" remarks all those media people were touting that you got so offended with?

It all depends on how challenging the environment is. AKA how dark the room is.

In the darker rooms the 9g Kuro is quite a jump from the 8g. I remember quite clearly from my old Kuro and seeing a new 151FD.

Diminishing returns is approaching for contrast videophiles. But just to not sound like a plasma fanboy... I've seen OLED. And OLED is insanity.

If you blow it up to 50 inches, I'll take OLED over a 9g Kuro because my room and tastes merit a dark viewing area.

I agree with you on the point of diminishing returns regarding the Kuro. As for OLED, its coming, I'm sure its magnificent. Also, please don't count out SED, there are signs that life is being breathed back into that most magnificent display technology. We will either get it in the form of SED or FED. The future of display technology is looking bright.
post #76 of 121
auditor55 please excuse me but this is gotta be the stup!^t thing i'v ever heard on avs forums, $300 from panasonic to pioneer kuro, the kuro is worth more, i wont discuss / argue more with you as you seem to be agaisnt kuro's for small prices like this it makes perfect sense to upgrade.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

No.

$300 is lot of money in this economy to spend on minimal display quality differences.

btw, you're not supposed to discuss price around here.
post #77 of 121
There's no use arguing with a fanatic gus if the Kuro was cheaper he'd probably say it wasn't worth it.
post #78 of 121
Well, after I finally save up enough for a Kuro, those knuckleheads at Pioneer take away all the picture adjustments that I am used to having on all of my other sets. I am a tweaker at heart (I mess with every show it seems trying to get the best), and this is a real bummer for me, possibly a dealbreaker. It is for this reason that I am also checking into the Panny 850. IMO, I don't care who manufactures it, but when a manufacturer charges between 3-4k for a 50 inch set, it better have more adjustability than a 180 dollar Sylvania. I am kind of upset about this, as it took a while to save, only to find out its been severely dumbed down. Decisions, decisions.
post #79 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by r1dude57 View Post

Well, after I finally save up enough for a Kuro, those knuckleheads at Pioneer take away all the picture adjustments that I am used to having on all of my other sets. I am a tweaker at heart (I mess with every show it seems trying to get the best), and this is a real bummer for me, possibly a dealbreaker. It is for this reason that I am also checking into the Panny 850. IMO, I don't care who manufactures it, but when a manufacturer charges between 3-4k for a 50 inch set, it better have more adjustability than a 180 dollar Sylvania. I am kind of upset about this, as it took a while to save, only to find out its been severely dumbed down. Decisions, decisions.

lol, to be honest I think Pioneer did you a favor. Soemtimes tweaking becomes more important than the programing and you never really get to enjoy the programming. The tweaking should never be more important than the picture quality and the 5020 is one of the better sets available.
post #80 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

I do know the differences and they're not a great as you want people to believe. I've have seen the 6020 and as I said before, its not much of improvement over the 6010.

The Kuro has reached the point of diminishing returns!!


Poor auditor, no matter how hard you try, the Kuro still gets rave reviews from the experts and the owners.
post #81 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

To some, the Kuro is perfection. Even thought we know its not.

Let's just say the Kuro has a better reputation that you do in this forum, lol.

post #82 of 121
r1dude get the pioneer non elite even with the reduced picture controls it will beat any other tv in PQ you will notice it.

also it is possible to calibrate it to a degree.

if you really must be a tweeker then get an elite

but its certianly NOT a deal breaker.

poor auidtor i dont understand him, since i was new and i joined because of sed tv to be, now he is all on to it, i gave it up bought a kuro non elite PDP-5020 and enjoy'd

i will get an elite 111 later and wait out to see what the future in 5 yrs or so brings me (oled should be for the avg person if plasma doesnt inprove over it.)
post #83 of 121
Nope it's not a deal breaker, I just set to D-Nice's settings and don't even bother with any other adjustments.
post #84 of 121
I recently saw a new model Panasonic and was impressed by not the PQ (although that was good) but by some of the other features that it could do. Not so much conectivity, but the ability to display images direct from a variety of media sources. In the age of the digital camera, I can't imagine why you would by a new set without this kind of setup. Yes you could hook up a computer direct to the screen, but lets face it I really don't want to do that, there are better things to do with my time.

Not sure if it was the TH-50PZ800U or not. Didn't look that closely. Does the Pio have the same setup?
post #85 of 121
holy crap tng are you looking on a tv to watch tv or to make things more simple? connection wise?

a tv is made for TV, if you want addtional features why not pay up?

i would never sacrifse PQ over connectivity/features/functions....

you want pc options like internet connection use a dv/hdmi connection,

or use the ps3, or buy those boxes to get internet with a keyboard.

the bottom line why would you get reduced PQ just for connections/feature? a tv is a TV for god's sake what is this world turning out to....


Quote:
Originally Posted by TNG View Post

I recently saw a new model Panasonic and was impressed by not the PQ (although that was good) but by some of the other features that it could do. Not so much conectivity, but the ability to display images direct from a variety of media sources. In the age of the digital camera, I can't imagine why you would by a new set without this kind of setup. Yes you could hook up a computer direct to the screen, but lets face it I really don't want to do that, there are better things to do with my time.

Not sure if it was the TH-50PZ800U or not. Didn't look that closely. Does the Pio have the same setup?
post #86 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by gus738 View Post

holy crap tng are you looking on a tv to watch tv or to make things more simple? connection wise?

a tv is made for TV, if you want additional features why not pay up?

i would never sacrifse PQ over connectivity/features/functions....

you want pc options like internet connection use a dv/hdmi connection,

or use the ps3, or buy those boxes to get internet with a keyboard.

the bottom line why would you get reduced PQ just for connections/feature? a tv is a TV for god's sake what is this world turning out to....

Give me a break, if I can get both why not?

My pc is just that, a PC.

I view what have hanging on the wall as a monitor that I can DISPLAY things on.

Now if a set is capable of giving me more options to display more stuff, other than off the PC, than I will look more favorably on it.

The model I was looking at was I believe the model that the original OP was commenting on. Sorry that you can't see the connection.

BTW did you read that I said that the PQ was good?

Of course I see by the tag line on your post that you are a proud Kuro fan and my question was answered, I guess that the Kuro does not offer this type of connectivity.
post #87 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNG View Post

I recently saw a new model Panasonic and was impressed by not the PQ (although that was good) but by some of the other features that it could do. Not so much conectivity, but the ability to display images direct from a variety of media sources. In the age of the digital camera, I can't imagine why you would by a new set without this kind of setup. Yes you could hook up a computer direct to the screen, but lets face it I really don't want to do that, there are better things to do with my time.

Not sure if it was the TH-50PZ800U or not. Didn't look that closely. Does the Pio have the same setup?

The Panasonic PZ800 has an SD CARD slot while the Pioneer has a USB connector and what they call Home Media Gallery. The below is from CNet:

"Pioneer added its Home Media Gallery to the TV this year, which lets it interface with a USB thumbdrive or your home network via an Ethernet port to view photos, or play music and video files on the TV. Pioneer's implementation doesn't include as a media-rich experience like Samsung's LN46A750, which has built-in Shockwave tutorials, weather reports, and other more advance features, but it still offers a decent DLNA option with a wide array of supported file format"
post #88 of 121
sorry TNG i didnt want to cause heat, what im trying to say sure if we can have both thats great, but not if it comes to a sacrfise in PQ because the tv is ment for a tv you know?
post #89 of 121
I just recently sold my 42 inch panasonic and am looking at the 58 800u and also atPioneer Pro 151 FD. Up above people are comparing a 58 panasonic to a 50 Pioneer 5020. First of all the 5020 is not the sdame caliber as the 111 FD.That is the Elite series. The salesman for the Elite said that the 5020 is not all made by Pioneer as is the Elite series.Every one knows that Pioneer is the best but is it worth a few thousand more. I asked my independent ISF calibrator his thoughts. He said that if you are putting Tv in a home theater environment with special lighting then the Pioneer is worth the dollars. If you are just watching tv with no special lighting,go with Panasonic as it is not worth paying extra for the Pioneer. The Elite series is much better than the regular Pioneer. Hope this helps
post #90 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by gus738 View Post

sorry TNG i didnt want to cause heat, what im trying to say sure if we can have both thats great, but not if it comes to a sacrfise in PQ because the tv is ment for a tv you know?

Dude, not everyone is going to buy a Elite and spend the bucks. Some of us just want to flip the set on and channel surf through a variety of SD and HD channels. The PQ is not there to begin with from many of the stations that I get on my cable setup, so why should I worry?

I do watch the occasional movie off a upscaled DVD, but I don't plan to invest in a BD player anytime soon. I run more Halo on my set on a typical weekend than watching TV. For me having something like this would be great, I am not sacrificing PQ, I don't care that much like you guys do.

I have seen great FPD's before and I can't really afford the ones that I really want anyway. Time for me to let things progress and in 5-6 years I can buy into the next biggest thing.
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