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"Official" Denon AVR 2809CI/989 Thread - Page 6

post #151 of 5669
I noticed the 2809 have two 32bit processors whereas the 2309 & 1909 only have one. Can someone tell me in what capacity does having two processors improve the functions of the AVR. I'm planning to buy one of the new Denon receivers probably the 2809 and would like to justify spending $350 more on the 2809 over the 2309. My speakers are, 2 Paradigm Studio 60, 2 paradigm studio 20 and a paradigm Sub, also a PS3 and a Panasonic Plasma Th-42px80u and my current AVR is Yamaha 2400 @ 120 watts.
Based on my Yamy's 120 watts I'm planning to purchase the 2809 at 115 watts but wasn't sure if i could squeek by saving a few hundred dollars with the 2309. Thanks for you help.
post #152 of 5669
Anyone with the 2809 care to give me a little info on how the sound "improves" or "changes" when using no audio processing/pure direct, using Audyssey MultiEQ, and using Audyssey during BR playback? I have no interest in Dynamic Volume. I've read all the Denon techno babble about the features but would like an opinion of an owner on the audio quality when these are used or not on the 2809.

Thanks in advance.
post #153 of 5669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Classico View Post

The flagship 5308 is list price at $5500 (unless you mean the AVP-A1 which is $7500) The "midship" 3808CI is $1600 and can be obtained for about $1100 (Certified Denon Retailer) if you know where to buy it. The word on the forum is the new Audyssey DynamicEQ features will cost around $150-200. I guess you'll have to make the price/value determination. But with the 2809 being new and NO discounts being offered just yet, maybe the 3808 isn't such a bad deal. In several months, when the 2809 is in more abundant supply, it may be $300-400 cheaper--if you're willing to wait. I have the 3808 & knowing what I know now, I would pay the extra money for the upgrade. But that's just me.

Classico

Thanks Classico, I was over exaggerating with the "flagship" term but just mainly that the 3000 series of Denon receiver's were well renowned.
post #154 of 5669
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_4_me View Post

I noticed the 2809 have two 32bit processors whereas the 2309 & 1909 only have one. Can someone tell me in what capacity does having two processors improve the functions of the AVR. I'm planning to buy one of the new Denon receivers probably the 2809 and would like to justify spending $350 more on the 2809 over the 2309. My speakers are, 2 Paradigm Studio 60, 2 paradigm studio 20 and a paradigm Sub, also a PS3 and a Panasonic Plasma Th-42px80u and my current AVR is Yamaha 2400 @ 120 watts.
Based on my Yamy's 120 watts I'm planning to purchase the 2809 at 115 watts but wasn't sure if i could squeek by saving a few hundred dollars with the 2309. Thanks for you help.

Considering you're running Studio 60s, I'd get the 2809 for the extra power anyways. Especially if you plan to add a centre channel down the road. Also, it has preouts for an amp if you choose to run your towers separately.
post #155 of 5669
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Spiff- View Post

Classico, what specifically do you know about the 3808 that would persuade you that it's better than the 2809?

My only real interest in 3808 is the additional power (for hopes of better dynamics, not volume) and the lower signal-to-noise DACs. My concern is that the better DACs might make a difference if I ever decided to use the pre-outs (which is unlikely).

While the 3808 does also have better ADCs, I don't really care since my audio pipeline will be purely digital->analog.

Generally, the out-of-the-box-without-a-hassle Audissey features of the 2809 make it a much stronger contender for me... And if it's good enough (actually the 2808) for a DTS theater to differentiate DTS-MA and DTS core, then it's probably good enough for me.

Anyone know which has a better scaler for 1080p video and better video pass-through features? BTB/WTW, Deep Color and xv.color are all quite important to me, since I don't want to upgrade the receiver if a new Blu-Ray standard comes out that supports any of these.

Check the 2809CI vs 3808CI thread. You can also read the last few pages of the official 3808 thread, as there are some user concerns that are discussed.

Both use the same video chip set (FL2310) and fully supports HDMI 1.3a (deep color, xvYCC), and there are no BTB/WTW issues with Denon models like recent Yamaha and HK models.

So far the AVR-2809 has not exhibited any problems such as video or audio dropouts. The Oppo 983 pass through at 1080P is flawless using HDMI -> HDMI.
post #156 of 5669
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Spiff- View Post

Anyone know which has a better scaler for 1080p video and better video pass-through features? BTB/WTW, Deep Color and xv.color are all quite important to me, since I don't want to upgrade the receiver if a new Blu-Ray standard comes out that supports any of these.

As John mentioned, both have identical video chipsets. However, the 3808ci allows processing of digital video, whereas the 28xx and down only allow video processing on analog>digital conversion.

That being said, you don't want the 3808ci messing with your digital video other than deinterlacing/scaling 480i/p signals. The Faroudja chip was never designed to handle HD resolutions, and it shows.

The only real advantage to the 3808ci in this respect is that you can plug your cable/dish box via HDMI and let the Faroudja process SD cable, whereas if you want video processing on the 2809 you'd have to hook your cable box up via analog. If that matters to you....

Here is a review of the 3808ci's video performance:
http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/...at/index2.html

Everything there is applicable to the 2809's performance, except of course the digital video part.

Here is CNET's review of the 3808ci, which essentially corroborates that link above (scroll down to the video performance section at the end):
http://reviews.cnet.com/av-receivers...-32553611.html

In summary: very good at 480i/p deinterlacing/scaling, very bad at 1080i deinterlacing, and analog>digital conversion will slightly soften the picture.

........

Anyway, back on topic, this should really now head to the 2809 vs 3808 thread that John linked.
post #157 of 5669
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_4_me View Post

I noticed the 2809 have two 32bit processors whereas the 2309 & 1909 only have one. Can someone tell me in what capacity does having two processors improve the functions of the AVR.

I believe the extra processing primarily allows for Audyssey MultEQ XT (vs normal MultEQ on lower models), which has higher resolution filters and additional measurement points, and requires more processing power to implement correctly.

There are also secondary processing improvements on the 2809, like AL24+ processing, extra DSP's, etc...

But I'm certainly no expert, you'd have to call Denon to know for sure.
post #158 of 5669
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post

Considering you're running Studio 60s, I'd get the 2809 for the extra power anyways. Especially if you plan to add a centre channel down the road. Also, it has preouts for an amp if you choose to run your towers separately.

Also Have Paradigm Center Channel just forgot to mention it, thanks the 2809 is where I was leaning just wasn't sure the reason for two processors.
post #159 of 5669
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamstate View Post

Anyone with the 2809 care to give me a little info on how the sound "improves" or "changes" when using no audio processing/pure direct, using Audyssey MultiEQ, and using Audyssey during BR playback? I have no interest in Dynamic Volume. I've read all the Denon techno babble about the features but would like an opinion of an owner on the audio quality when these are used or not on the 2809.

Thanks in advance.

I'm not big on using the pure direct mode as no sound field, no tone adjustments when using CD's or DVD's. Using a receiver with or without MultiEQ XT calibration is like night and day if you want accurate sound fields.

Shame you have no interest in Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ as it changes the audio field recreation so sounds that were too faint can now be heard and ever so slightly attenuates extreme audio peaks like explosions (day mode), and all without effecting the overall audio quality. This works with both analog and digital inputs.

You can also just run Dynamic EQ only if you want, or disable both Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ.
post #160 of 5669
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Spiff- View Post

Classico, what specifically do you know about the 3808 that would persuade you that it's better than the 2809?

My only real interest in 3808 is the additional power (for hopes of better dynamics, not volume) and the lower signal-to-noise DACs. My concern is that the better DACs might make a difference if I ever decided to use the pre-outs (which is unlikely).

While the 3808 does also have better ADCs, I don't really care since my audio pipeline will be purely digital->analog.

Generally, the out-of-the-box-without-a-hassle Audissey features of the 2809 make it a much stronger contender for me... And if it's good enough (actually the 2808) for a DTS theater to differentiate DTS-MA and DTS core, then it's probably good enough for me.

Anyone know which has a better scaler for 1080p video and better video pass-through features? BTB/WTW, Deep Color and xv.color are all quite important to me, since I don't want to upgrade the receiver if a new Blu-Ray standard comes out that supports any of these.

The 3808 has a higher number for a reason. I would have liked the 4308, but the price/performance/value proposition did not convince me. The same goes for the 2809 and the 3808. However at this time the price/performance/value proposition favors the 3808 for reasons best stated on the Denon site and in other posts & threads on this forum. Additionally, the simple ability to update/upgrade via the ethernet connection is crucial. It does NOT appear that the 2809 has an UPGRADE path.

I believe the 2 units are aimed at DIFFERENT market segments. But in the end the question remains--what is it you need or want from a receiver? For anyone to perceive the difference between these 2 very fine units as ONLY one of features is being misled. If after all the discounts are figured in and there is only a $100-200 difference BEFORE the new Audyssey features are purchased, that becomes YOUR price/performance/value proposition.

BTW, I have had NO issues or problems with my 3808. I am on this site looking at the 2809 for my son whose price/performance/value proposition is different than mine--and for him, going from a Denon 19xx series to this 2809 would be an excellent choice.

Classico
post #161 of 5669
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

I'm not big on using the pure direct mode as no sound field, no tone adjustments when using CD's or DVD's. Using a receiver with or without MultiEQ XT calibration is like night and day if you want accurate sound fields.

I'm not sure about Dynamic EQ/Volume, but you can definitely still apply the Audyssey EQ filters when listening in "DIRECT" mode (though I think they turn off in "Pure Direct"). In the setup you have the option to enable it for Direct modes -- I listen to HD DVD soundtracks in "MULTICHANNEL DIRECT" mode with EQ'ing enabled.
post #162 of 5669
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Classico View Post

Additionally, the simple ability to update/upgrade via the ethernet connection is crucial. It does NOT appear that the 2809 has an UPGRADE path.

Just a FYI but if you needed to correct some software problems by a installing an new firmware release on a AVR-2809 then you would just use a laptop connected to the RS-232 port to update the firmware from the file you got from Denon internet site.

This unique time Denon has a working $$ firmware update solution (October 2008) for 3808 users to extend existing Audyssey software to include the Dynamic Voice and Dynamic EQ support, offer HDMI 1.3a - CEC support.

The new AVR-2809 does not need a UPGRADE path at this time because it has all those features.

I also think that both are very fine units.
post #163 of 5669
Quote:


But with the 2809 being new and NO discounts being offered just yet

Isnt $999 shipped from J & R a discount??
post #164 of 5669
I just got my 2809 last night and I'm thrilled with the sound quality, it is a HUGE step up over my old Pioneer. I am having one major issue, though:

It isn't letting me use a single optical input for two separate component video inputs.

Since I've never owned a Denon AVR before, is there any possible way to get this to work? I'm not Denon-literate yet, since I've only had it for about 24 hours now.

I also had an issue earlier when I was trying to find a way to configure this. I tried putting the HDP to Optical 1, and it took the TV off of Optical 1. When I switched the TV back to Optical 1, all I got was a static sound. The only way I got it fixed was to unplug the optical cable from the back, and plug it back in. Odd, I hope this isn't going to be a major issue.
post #165 of 5669
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Isnt $999 shipped from J & R a discount??

$1000 for a 2809 or $100 more for a 3808 is a no brainer for me. PLUS $150 more for the Audyssey upgrade--if I REALLY wanted those features--Still a no brainer. But that's just me.

Classico
post #166 of 5669
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDP View Post

I just got my 2809 last night and I'm thrilled with the sound quality, it is a HUGE step up over my old Pioneer. I am having one major issue, though:

It isn't letting me use a single optical input for two separate component video inputs.

Since I've never owned a Denon AVR before, is there any possible way to get this to work? I'm not Denon-literate yet, since I've only had it for about 24 hours now.

I also had an issue earlier when I was trying to find a way to configure this. I tried putting the HDP to Optical 1, and it took the TV off of Optical 1. When I switched the TV back to Optical 1, all I got was a static sound. The only way I got it fixed was to unplug the optical cable from the back, and plug it back in. Odd, I hope this isn't going to be a major issue.

Technically, you should be able, in the set-up mode to change which component video input is associated with optical 1 without an issue. I am confused as to WHY you don't just buy a 2nd optical cable?

Denon's are designed to associate ONE audio input to ONE device. ONE video input to ONE device. In this way Denon allows you to set various parameters associated with that device and then REMEMBER those settings when you switch to that device.

I'm also assuming you are using OPTICAL because you have NO devices that use HDMI or SPDIF (cable). HDMI would solve a multitude of problems--if you can use it--and give you FAR BETTER SQ/PQ with your new 2809.

Good luck,

Classico
post #167 of 5669
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Network capability (streaming from computer, internet radio) can still be done to any Denon receiver with using either ASD-3W: Denon iPod/Networking Client Dock with WiFi, or the ASD-3N: Denon iPod/Networking Client Dock. Using the ASD-3W for example gives you WIFI which the 3808 lacks, but no firmware updates are possible using this connection. The 2809 gets firmware updates via computer using RS-232 port. If you get a 3808 and have a Ipod then your still stuck getting a Ipod adapter.

Now the firmware update for 3808 has been said to be $150 (100 Euros in Europe) in October, but "no" Denon USA announcement has been given, so still big unknown for customers. Also Denon plans to raise prices a few hundred for a 3808A afterwards incorporating the new firmware, and then also is the so-called 3810 due a few months later (summer 2009).

So if you want Dynamic Voice and EQ now the 2809 is recommended.


Is it only Dynamic Voice and EQ in the $150 update? What will the 3808A include? Will it have more features?

Also I was told by one on-line dealer that if I bought the 3808 soon I'd be eligiable for free Audyssey Volume? Does this sound right?
post #168 of 5669
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlaavenger View Post

Is it only Dynamic Voice and EQ in the $150 update? What will the 3808A include? Will it have more features? Also I was told by one on-line dealer that if I bought the 3808 soon I'd be eligiable for free Audyssey Volume? Does this sound right?

Also HDMI CEC protocol support. Probably have to wait until CEDIA to find out. Not that I have heard.

This discussion should continue in the 3808 users thread.

Note: This is the AVR-2809/989 thread.
post #169 of 5669
Quote:


$1000 for a 2809 or $100 more for a 3808 is a no brainer for me. PLUS $150 more for the Audyssey upgrade--if I REALLY wanted those features--Still a no brainer. But that's just me.

Yes, if the upgrade gives you everything the 2809 has (Im not convinced!) and you believe the SQ/PQ of the 3808 is worth the $300 extra the no problem.

IMO, I will not consider the SQ that different ( I did extensive tests over the years with higher/lower end AVRs like the 3805 vs 1905 and so on).In the end for me there is simply no reason to spend the extra $300 because I would consider it a waste of money.

Plus, I decided I wanted to buy new this time even though Im a huge fan of buying 1 or 2 year back models because bugs are fixed and issues are known.
post #170 of 5669
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Also HDMI CEC protocol support. Probably have to wait until CEDIA to find out. Not that I have heard.

This discussion should continue in the 3808 users thread.

Note: This is the AVR-2809/989 thread.

I posted a while back in the 3808 thread about this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post14234451
post #171 of 5669
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Yes, if the upgrade gives you everything the 2809 has (Im not convinced!) and you believe the SQ/PQ of the 3808 is worth the $300 extra the no problem.

IMO, I will not consider the SQ that different ( I did extensive tests over the years with higher/lower end AVRs like the 3805 vs 1905 and so on).In the end for me there is simply no reason to spend the extra $300 because I would consider it a waste of money.

Plus, I decided I wanted to buy new this time even though Im a huge fan of buying 1 or 2 year back models because bugs are fixed and issues are known.

If you cannot hear the difference then don't spend the difference--save your money. As far as the UPGRADE is concerned, that remains to be seen (heard). But after all, it is ALL done with software, so why should it be any different? Even so, any trade off (for the Audyssey UPGRADE) is offset IMO, by the intrinsic value of the 3808 architecture.

Classico
post #172 of 5669
Hi, apologies if this is seen as a cross-post - there is another "Official" Denon AVR 2309CI/889 Thread in these forums but it seems to have gone stale - I suppose this one replaced it.

Anyway, could someone please explain what the implications are of the 2809 having "2 -21366 x 1 and 21367 x 1 32-bit Floating Point" whereas the 2309 has "1 - 21367 32-bit Floating Point"? - this is from the Denon website comparison. Seems like twice the processing power is a lot but I don't know when/how this is used. Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere - I've tried to look.

Thanks.
post #173 of 5669
I have been struggling with this decision but finally decided today to go with the 3808CI. I called Denon and asked them if the upgrade was confirmed for North America and was told yes and that it would be available for $100 in October. I then called J&R and after negotiating with them I didn't get a price I felt comfortable paying and almost resorted back to the 2809. I called 6th Ave and got a fantastic price and placed my order.

From what I have seen it looks like I am only paying $50 additional for the 3808 and then with the $100 upgrade fee (assuming that holds true)means a $150 premium for the 3808 with the features I want. I think the GUI and the Internet capabilities are probably worth the extra $150. Although I am now >$300 over the original budget I had planned on when I thought I was going with the Onkyo 806, I feel pretty good about it.
post #174 of 5669
Quote:
Originally Posted by njdcampbell View Post

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere - I've tried to look.

Um, did you look at the top of this page? Where the exact same question was asked, 21 posts prior to yours?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_4_me View Post

I noticed the 2809 have two 32bit processors whereas the 2309 & 1909 only have one. Can someone tell me in what capacity does having two processors improve the functions of the AVR.
post #175 of 5669
Quote:


From what I have seen it looks like I am only paying $50 additional for the 3808 and then with the $100 upgrade fee (assuming that holds true)means a $150 premium for the 3808 with the features I want. I think the GUI and the Internet capabilities are probably worth the extra $150. Although I am now >$300 over the original budget I had planned on when I thought I was going with the Onkyo 806, I feel pretty good about it.

Nice job! Ebay is an alternative for some people. Microsoft Live search offered 25% cash back two weeks ago, this week its only 8% but ebay has a 10% discount option too so thats 18% off any "Buy Now" item on ebay which does put the 3808 down below $1k shipped.

Its Ebay ( I love it but others do not) and I have no idea about warranty but I use "squaretrade" if needed.

2809 isnt on ebay yet so....just in case others are still trying to make a $$$ comparison between the too.....25% cash back (up to $200) would have been sweeter but I go that with another ebay item anyways
post #176 of 5669
Hi, batpig, yes I did. The poster had a couple of topics in there and the initial responses all seemed to respond to the power issue. And I then missed your response. Apologies and thanks (x2!). Seems like the 2309 will be good enough for me.
post #177 of 5669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_G View Post

I have been struggling with this decision but finally decided today to go with the 3808CI. I called Denon and asked them if the upgrade was confirmed for North America and was told yes and that it would be available for $100 in October.

nice.
post #178 of 5669
Thread Starter 
Whats Hi-FI magazine has a AVR-2809 review planned according to this post.
post #179 of 5669
Personally, I can't wait, but I have made enquiries and believe that retailers in the UK are only expecting the 2809 to arrive at the end of September. I am envious of all you folk across the water!
post #180 of 5669
Anyone with a 2809 hooked up to a XBR4 care to comment if they're having the audio dropout issues that are plauging the 3808. I was ready to pull the trigger on a 3808 until I found out about this issue.
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