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"Official" Denon AVR 2809CI/989 Thread - Page 91

post #2701 of 5602
4/8/09 at 4:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MashedBuddha View Post

I picked up the Denon AVR 2809ci and have it set up. I ran Audyssey. I find the audio (cable or HD-DVD) to be rather bright/not warm. Is there a break in period? I didn't notice this brightness with a Pio Elite VSX82. I use a separate receiver for listening to music so my questions only apply to surround enabled video.

Hi, welcome.

I have heard of a break-in period with speakers, but if you are referring to the AVR, I don't think that is a real factor with solid state electronics.

Here's some specifics that can affect brightness:
Are you using the Audyssey (reference) curve or Audyssey FLAT (which sounds brighter)? Are you using DynEQ or tone controls? Are your front tweeters at seated ear level, aimed at main listening position and was the mic at that height and kept in the tweeters' sound field for all positions?

If none of that seems pertinent it might also help if you gave more detail about your equipment, the room layout, the autosetup settings and any changes you made, what exactly you're listening to (what exactly is "surround enabled video"?) , on what settings, is the brightness from all speakers, etc.

well, nevermind....
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post #2702 of 5602
4/8/09 at 4:59pm
Hey i went to pickup a 2809/3808 to my local dealer today and the vendor said both model where discontinued and the new replacement coming next month. Whats up with that ? didint the xx09 model just came out ? He called his denon rep just in front of me because i wanted more info about the 3808 upgrade pakage and he said both model i was looking for cant be ordered anymore ... What you guys think ?
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post #2703 of 5602
4/8/09 at 5:02pm
I think you are telling us something we already know New products come out every year, get used to it!

The XX09 models came out last year around May/June, so it's actually time for their replacement. The 1910 will be first, and then the higher end models phasing in over time.

The 2809/3808 are both being discontinued and replaced by the 3310CI, which will slot in between them in terms of powers/features/price. There will be two higher end models, 4310CI and 4810CI.

There is a little more info in this thread, but mostly we are working off of rumors:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1122905
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post #2704 of 5602
4/8/09 at 9:13pm
Oh thanks batpig didint know there was a thread on the xx10 model
I just wanted to know if my dealer was ********ting me :P

i think im gonna wait the 3310 then thx a lot
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post #2705 of 5602
4/8/09 at 9:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Hi, welcome.

I have heard of a break-in period with speakers, but if you are referring to the AVR, I don't think that is a real factor with solid state electronics.

Same here, I read in a Pioneer AVR thread someone had said that so I thought maybe that was the case.

Quote:


If none of that seems pertinent it might also help if you gave more detail about your equipment, the room layout, the autosetup settings and any changes you made, what exactly you're listening to (what exactly is "surround enabled video"?) , on what settings, is the brightness from all speakers, etc.

I just meant 5.1 surround sources (dvd, cable, xbox) not surround audio (SACD etc) and not 2.1 anything.

So I'm using HD movies (on cable and on HD dvd) to test the sound of the AVR.

Yes the brightness is from all the speakers, and not using any dynamic vol or compression.

I have B&W fronts, the tweeters are at ear level, A Definitive Mythos 3 for the center (it's on a mantle so can't be too large a speaker) and two Orb Audio speakers on stands for surrounds. The sub is in the corner left from viewing perspective.

The room is about 15x15 sq ft, cathedral ceiling but there is an open back (over some stairs) behind the main viewing area and the side is open to the kitchen. Hard to describe but there's a fair amount of space for the sound to fill.

I found that when I dialed in the settings myself things started to improve. I'm going to keep experimenting and also run the Audyssey again. Also making sure the fronts are set to small.
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post #2706 of 5602
4/8/09 at 11:57pm
I've head that some AVR's does not support pre-out function if the sound carried over optical/coaxial..Pre-out's are only functional if the sound came through analog multi-in..
In this case I plan to carry sound over hdmi from asus xonar hdav1.3 to 2809, do you know if I use pre-out for fronts?
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post #2707 of 5602
4/9/09 at 5:42am
Wanted to know what was the best way to run two subs out of the 2809ci. I have an older Boston sub and just picked up an Outlaw LFM-1 Plus. Is there some kinda of splitter that connects to the sub out on the receiver ( Denon )?

Thanks
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post #2708 of 5602
4/9/09 at 6:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimGoodwin View Post

Wanted to know what was the best way to run two subs out of the 2809ci. I have an older Boston sub and just picked up an Outlaw LFM-1 Plus. Is there some kinda of splitter that connects to the sub out on the receiver ( Denon )?

Thanks



Just use a standard RCA Y-cable
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post #2709 of 5602
4/9/09 at 6:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaRaBeeN View Post

I've head that some AVR's does not support pre-out function if the sound carried over optical/coaxial..Pre-out's are only functional if the sound came through analog multi-in..
In this case I plan to carry sound over hdmi from asus xonar hdav1.3 to 2809, do you know if I use pre-out for fronts?



ALL AVR that have pre-outs it will process the inbound signal and send it out them no matter what. The inbound can be analog, can be digital audio (coax/toslink/HDMI).


What ever you read was 100% false.
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post #2710 of 5602
4/9/09 at 6:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimGoodwin View Post

Wanted to know what was the best way to run two subs out of the 2809ci. Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Just use a standard RCA Y-cable

Also, reread the Audyssey setup Guide with careful attention to the section on multiple subs.
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post #2711 of 5602
4/9/09 at 6:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Also, reread the Audyssey setup Guide with careful attention to the section on multiple subs.

What did you find in that section that was useful?
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post #2712 of 5602
4/9/09 at 6:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

What did you find in that section that was useful?

Penn, what would you advise Tim to do? Is there a problem with this portion of the Guide, in your experience?

"III. Dual mono (LFE) Subwoofer Setup... you can follow the below advice to have two subwoofers share one Audyssey equalization curve.
A. Place the subwoofers symmetrically within the room, if at all possible.
B. Place the subwoofers at identical distances from the primary listening position, if at all possible.
1. When two subwoofers are driven as one unit, proper time alignment is critical.
2. The two subwoofers will not be properly time aligned unless they have the same physical distance from the primary listening position.
3. Adjusting the physical distance of the two subs effectively adjusts their time delay.
C. The above advice applies only to sealed rectangular rooms without any openings.
D. Follow the steps in subwoofer setup (section II.) for each subwoofer.
E. As an alternative to locating the subs at equal distances from the main listening position, you may insert an electronic device between the receiver / processor and the nearest subwoofer.
1. This device should introduce a time delay such that its output sound reaches the main listening position at the same time as the farthest subwoofer.
F. Attempt to match the output level of both subwoofers.
1. Use the receiver / processor internal LFE test tone while adjusting the volume control on the subwoofer to perform the following:
2. Turn one subwoofer on, and adjust the output level to 80 dB using an SPL meter.
a. Ensure the SPL meter is located where the first Audyssey measurement position will be taken (see section V.), and is set to C and Slow.
b. If you do not have an SPL meter, adjust the level by ear.
3. Turn off the first subwoofer, turn on the second subwoofer, and repeat the procedure.
4. Turn on both subwoofers and calibrate with Audyssey."
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post #2713 of 5602
4/9/09 at 7:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Penn, what would you advise Tim to do? Is there a problem with this portion of the Guide, in your experience?

"III. Dual mono (LFE) Subwoofer Setup... you can follow the below advice to have two subwoofers share one Audyssey equalization curve.
A. Place the subwoofers symmetrically within the room, if at all possible.
B. Place the subwoofers at identical distances from the primary listening position, if at all possible.
1. When two subwoofers are driven as one unit, proper time alignment is critical.
2. The two subwoofers will not be properly time aligned unless they have the same physical distance from the primary listening position.
3. Adjusting the physical distance of the two subs effectively adjusts their time delay.
C. The above advice applies only to sealed rectangular rooms without any openings.
D. Follow the steps in subwoofer setup (section II.) for each subwoofer.
E. As an alternative to locating the subs at equal distances from the main listening position, you may insert an electronic device between the receiver / processor and the nearest subwoofer.
1. This device should introduce a time delay such that its output sound reaches the main listening position at the same time as the farthest subwoofer.
F. Attempt to match the output level of both subwoofers.
1. Use the receiver / processor internal LFE test tone while adjusting the volume control on the subwoofer to perform the following:
2. Turn one subwoofer on, and adjust the output level to 80 dB using an SPL meter.
a. Ensure the SPL meter is located where the first Audyssey measurement position will be taken (see section V.), and is set to C and Slow.
b. If you do not have an SPL meter, adjust the level by ear.
3. Turn off the first subwoofer, turn on the second subwoofer, and repeat the procedure.
4. Turn on both subwoofers and calibrate with Audyssey."



Thanks for the advice. I will pick up a Y-cable and follow the Audyssey steps.
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post #2714 of 5602
4/9/09 at 8:40am
With my dual sub setup, I leveled to 75dB for each, that produced a 78dB level when both were turned on. Audyssey set my subs to +3.5dB after doing so. I would suspect that using the 80dB setup of the guide, Audyssey would then cut my subs' level.
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post #2715 of 5602
4/9/09 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

ALL AVR that have pre-outs it will process the inbound signal and send it out them no matter what. The inbound can be analog, can be digital audio (coax/toslink/HDMI).


What ever you read was 100% false.

I'm willing to bet he confused the pre-outs with what he has heard about the zone 2 pre-outs, since it is often repeated in these Denon threads that you can't take digital audio out to Zone 2.
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post #2716 of 5602
4/9/09 at 10:35am
Sorry for another comparison but I am curious what Denon owners think of their product compared to Marantz. Overall it sounds like both are high quality units.

I am familiar with the obvious feature differences but in terms of sound quality and reliability what is you opinion? I have mirage omd speakers and am not sure if either AVR would sound much different although I have heard Marantz is warmer and Denon is darker (not sure how audible that is). Ideally I would like to audition both but don't have any dealers close by who stock Marantz.

I was almost decided on the marantz and was following the threads but wanted to hear opinions from the other side of the table.
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post #2717 of 5602
4/9/09 at 10:40am
tildawn, the Marantz receivers have some limitations on Audyssey that the Denons do not. I believe the limitation is that they can't apply Audyssey to bitstreamed HD audio codecs.

Also, the 2809 has MultEQ XT, Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume.

The Marantz only has MultEQ.

As for the sound, I can't say because I have not heard the Marantz.
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post #2718 of 5602
4/9/09 at 10:48am
Sound & Vision has reviewed both models recently. Might help...

Denon 2809/989 review:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/rec...-receiver.html

Marantz 6003 review:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/rec...-receiver.html
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post #2719 of 5602
4/9/09 at 12:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tildawn10 View Post

Sorry for another comparison but I am curious what Denon owners think of their product compared to Marantz... I have heard Marantz is warmer and Denon is darker (not sure how audible that is). Ideally I would like to audition both

Of course "what Denon owners think of their product compared to Marantz" is kinda predictable. I almost bought a Marantz, it is a good brand. Both of those models are very good AVR's and quite comparable except for one thing. I agree with Shape, the deal-breaker for me would be the MULTEQXT with DynEQ/Vol as implemented in the Denon 2809 compared to last year's lower-end MultEQ in the Marantz. I cannot stress enough what a big difference that makes with decent speakers like you have. It is difficult to compare modern AVR's with room correction EQ without running autosetup on each in your room; but I predict you'll be so happy with the 2809 you'll not want to bother with trying out that Marantz, and you'll never look back.

"Denon is darker"? IMHO, once properly set up, the 2809 will "light up" your HT SQ as you've never heard it before.

BTW the review batpig referenced was on a 989, so ignore the comments on the remote, the 2809 remote is actually really cool.
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post #2720 of 5602
4/10/09 at 9:03am
My entry level sub has 2 line in jacks, one labeled Mono and the other LFE. Should I get a splitter so I can connect my sub cable to both jacks? The sub manual doesn't specify.

Also, my monitor audio front speakers have 2 sets of posts. Am I supposed to connect the speaker wire to both sets of posts? I get reduced sound if I only connect to one set.
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post #2721 of 5602
4/10/09 at 9:10am
Quote:


My entry level sub has 2 line in jacks, one labeled Mono and the other LFE. Should I get a splitter so I can connect my sub cable to both jacks? The sub manual doesn't specify.

Generally a sub will have one jack dedicated for a mono/LFE connection.... but the fact that on your sub one is labeled mono and one is labeled LFE is a little confusing! What model/brand is it?

I would venture to guess that the "LFE" input is the correct one, that probably bypasses the internal crossover.

Quote:


Also, my monitor audio front speakers have 2 sets of posts. Am I supposed to connect the speaker wire to both sets of posts? I get reduced sound if I only connect to one set.

there should be a set of jumpers that connects the upper and lower pairs of binding posts. if there is no jumper (usually a brass-plated strap) connecting the posts, the reason you are getting reduced sound is that the upper posts only feed the tweeter and the lower posts feed the woofers.

It should look like this with the "shorting strap" or "jumper" connected:




With the strap in place, you only need to connect to one or the other (upper or lower) it doesn't matter which. Let us know if you have those jumpers...
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post #2722 of 5602
4/10/09 at 11:23am
Is there a difference in the following configurations on the 2809?
LFE+Main
Front = small
Crossover Front =60Hz

VS

LFE
Front = small
Crossover Front = 60Hz
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post #2723 of 5602
4/10/09 at 11:33am
no, when speakers are set to small the "LFE/LFE+MAIN" setting is irrelevant. It would make more sense if Denon just removed it as an option when there are no speakers set to large....
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post #2724 of 5602
4/10/09 at 11:53am
I sometimes lose the SW in stereo mode when the subwoofer setting is in LFE after Audyssey has been run leaving me in 2.0 mode. By applying LFE+Main always returns the SW in this situation putting me back into 2.1 mode. This will be my workaround for now.
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post #2725 of 5602
4/10/09 at 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

one is labeled mono and one is labeled LFE is a little confusing! What model/brand is it?

I would venture to guess that the "LFE" input is the correct one, that probably bypasses the internal crossover.


Let us know if you have those jumpers...


It's a Velo VX-10C. Darn, I'd hate to go through the audessy setup again. It took me about 6 tries to do it right this first time. (I know using this sub with the 2809 is like wearing tennis shoes with a tux. )

I'm missing those jumpers between the posts.
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post #2726 of 5602
4/10/09 at 12:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadek View Post

I sometimes lose the SW in stereo mode when the subwoofer setting is in LFE after Audyssey has been run leaving me in 2.0 mode. By applying LFE+Main always returns the SW in this situation putting me back into 2.1 mode. This will be my workaround for now.

note that you can set this separately for 2CH modes (Stereo) in the 2CH DIRECT/STEREO menu.
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post #2727 of 5602
4/10/09 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by twalkman View Post

I'm missing those jumpers between the posts.

If you are missing the jumpers, you have two options:

OPTION 1 - create your own "jumpers" with a short piece of speaker wire. Just snip off a couple of 3-4" lengths of speaker wire, and use it to connect upper-to-lower binding posts (red to red, black to black). Then they will become "one unit" again.

OPTION 2 - if you are not using the surround back amps (for 7.1 or zone 2), you can set AMP ASSIGN to "FRONT A BI-AMP" and connect the surround back amps to one set of posts, and the front amps to the other set.
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post #2728 of 5602
4/10/09 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by twalkman View Post

It's a Velo VX-10C. Darn, I'd hate to go through the audessy setup again. It took me about 6 tries to do it right this first time. (I know using this sub with the 2809 is like wearing tennis shoes with a tux. )

I'm missing those jumpers between the posts.

The online sub manual isn't helpful either. http://www.velodyne.com/products/man...ish_web%20.pdf

I agree with bp, use LFE and for good measure turn that filter to max, phase=0.

As for the speakers, did you get them used/demo? Someone was probably biwiring/biamping them. If you are running 5.1 you could passive biamp using your surround back terminals, or just use a simple jumper wire of sufficient size (16 ga or larger size), you don't need the original plate.

oops, bp answered way faster
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post #2729 of 5602
4/10/09 at 12:19pm
9 minutes? you're losing your edge!
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post #2730 of 5602
4/10/09 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

9 minutes? you're losing your edge!

I keep letting damn work slow down my replies!
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