"Official" Denon AVR 2809CI/989 Thread - Page 11

Thank you John, I really appreciate it. I thought I tried that earlier but maybe I didn't have the 2 channel stereo thing set up right at the time. Thank you very much sir, I will try it out when the kids are done watching movies...

viking - also note that engaging "DIRECT" mode disables bass management, so if you have small front speakers for 2-channel and want to listen to CD's in 2.1, use the STEREO mode.

If you toggle over to DIRECT the fronts will be sent a full-range signal and the subwoofer will be "doubling up" the bass of the mains below the crossover frequency you set in the "2 CH DIRECT/STEREO" setup. You can turn the subwoofer off specifically for DIRECT mode in the PARAMETERS menu.

It's a little confusing, but the "2 CH DIRECT STEREO" setup really only affects STEREO mode, since no matter what you do DIRECT mode will essentially treat your fronts as LARGE.

well I guess I'm ready to pull the trigger here.
I really appreciate this thread JohnAV, and I want you to know that this will be an historic purchase for me because this will mark my FIRST foray ever into a surround receiver.
I got an HD DVD player in 2006, and was going to get one then, but ended up getting my Kuro instead. I now have a Panny bd-30, and an Oppo 983 also, and have been eagerly awaiting the day when I could finally enjoy my hd media with surround sound.
I have slowly built my set-up, and now have a Furman power conditioner, HSU sub, Paradigm middle cc290, and adp-190 rears. Unfortunately, only Polk bookshelfs for the fronts at the moment.
I really hope I can turn to everyone for help when I get this receiver because it is going to be a real challenge for me to get everything up and running with my limited knowledge of these receivers.
wish me luck!
btw: any suggestions for a good place to order from--
maybe Vann's or J&R?

This is confusing...Hopefully I can figure it out when the kids my wife babysits go home for the day. If I have further questions I will be summoning you guys later and thank you all for your help.

ok sounds great.
thanks a bunch.

EDIT: chalk up another order to Jacques!
supposed to be at my house on Wednesday!
I'm getting excited.

Hey, I got my 2809 on FRI and everything works great..it's a noticeable upgrade from the ONKYO 705 it replaced. However the LEARN function on the remote dosen't work so well...it only actually worked for 1 of the buttons I tried. It acted like it saw it when programmed, it flashed twice, but still not working for all. Has anyone else tried to use LEARN? If so, any troubles?

In what way have you noticed an improvement of the 2809 over the 705, I'm interested in your impressions of both.

Thanks!

The DENON to me sounds better w/music. It seems to have a broader range than the ONKYO. The Pre-Outs seem to give me better SUB/FL/FR response, now when I listen to 2CH music I can really hear the lower freq.'s thru my FL/FR mains, plus I like having the 12v trigger, the extra HDMI port, and the fact it runs cooler. It's just a more "future proof" better unit, in my op. It $$$ 2x the ONKYO 705, however.. The ONKYO saves you $$$, and they cram ALOT of features into that thing, after hearing both, i'm keeping the DENON.

I spoke with a Denon Tech twice - once on the 2309 and once on the 2809. In both cases I was told the online specs are wrong. the 2809 is not .05% thd nor is the 2309. (Online it once said that it was). This really ticks me off on the Denon. Other online specs are wrong as well and I would not trust them for making a purchase decision. Look and the manual instead.

Great post and just what I needed since so much of what is posted on the Denon site is beyond my current level of comprehension (scary how quickly you get out of date with this stuff).

I had been considering the 2809 as it was the "easy" answer but now I'm really questioning that logic if what is posted below essentially distill what the non-tech user can discern between the models.

I have no need for multi-zone as I have that covered off by a Russound system, I have a 5.1 system with no option to expand. I will only have 2 HDMI inputs that I can think of - HDPVR and Blu-ray player. I never use the CD player since burning all my CD's to a dedicated audio PC and phono won't be used. No requirement for big volume nor a pre-amp. I do loop the Russound through the AVR so that it can play on the HT speakers as well. I think that covers everything.

I have Paradigm front, center and surround with an HSU sub.

Budget isn't a huge issue but if I don't need to spend it I can find other places to use the $'s I save.

Based on the above can I ask for an opinion as to which of the 3 units (2809/2309/1909) would seem to best fit and I know there isn't a perfect answer but I'd really appreciate any input that can be offered.

Thanks.

What is HDMI to HDMI scaling? And what would scaling have to do with GUI capabilities?

Thanks!

How do rate the two with movies?

Most receivers with video processing do not allow you to do any video processing on the digital video inputs (HDMI in), the only scaling allowed is when transcoding the analog inputs (composite, s-video, component) to an HDMI output.

For receivers with an onscreen display or GUI, if they can do video processing to the digital input it allows them to overlay the graphics on top of the image. So, for example, on the 3808ci (the lowest denon which allows HDMI video processing), when you are watching an HDMI input and you change the volume or call up the parameters menu or something, it overlays on top of the video image. Whereas on the 2809 or lower models, the screen will blank out, and then the OSD/GUI will take the place of the video.

This article is pretty informative about receiver video processing:
http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/608recfeat/

I haven't had a chance to watch that many movies w/ the 2809 yet; I did watch HOT FUZZ on HD-DVD and it sounded great; the SUB response was alot higher on the DENON watching this movie than on ONKYO. Perhaps the DENON adds a bit more "punch"...

(I'm repeating a post I made on the 3808 thread as my questions apply here too.)

I'm considering a purchase of a 3808 (or potentially 2809) and would want to connect it to my existing 2-channel system for the front L/R. This will be my first A/V processor. The best way appears to be to hook up the processor's pre-outs on front L/R to the pre-ins on my existing amp, a Denon PMA-2000.

Questions:
- Is it OK to mix & match by hooking up the other channels (rears in future) to the processor's amplified outputs? I assume you have the free choice of using pre-out or amp stage on any channel but want to confirm. I also plan on adding a sub (and the Audyssey EQ, at least on the sub, is a big sales point for me).

- More important is the issue of which unit controls volume (the processor has to be in control). The PMA-2000 has a special mode where you can de-activate its own volume control and then volume is based on its pre-input levels. Is this going to work properly when connected to the processor pre-outs?

- For playing music, has anyone noticed a difference (at least in 2-channel or 2.1-channel mode) when inserting the processor in between the source and an external amp? The processor audio specs look pretty good but, assuming analog input, even in direct or pure direct mode I assume there's an additional A/D and then D/A conversion going on.

Thanks!

1. it's OK to mix and match, the pre-outs and speaker terminals are all active all the time

2. I don't know for sure, but it sounds like when you put the PMA-2000 in that mode it is just behaving as a straight amp and the volume will be controlled on the AVR. you'll certainly have to balance your levels of course to make sure the volumes are matched.

3. my understanding is that, with an analog input, the PURE DIRECT mode completely bypasses the digital stages and the AVR is behaving as purely analog amp.

I go and pick up my 2809 tonight finally. Looks like it could turn out to be a late night I'm sure I'll be full of questions tomorrow.

Matt

Hey guys,

I am about to receive a new Panasonic 850U and know it has vieralink. From what I understand this can link to receivers, etc using the HDMI as a control to other components. I don't have the receiver choice nailed down yet. Can anyone explain if this is possible with the 2809CI? I am also taking a look now at the Pioneer SC-05. I was reading over there and apparently others are using the control aspect for example to have the TV when it is turned on send a signal to the receiver to fire up as well over the hdmi. Any info would be appreciated. I didn't know this functionality existed.

Thanks!

Just started with hooking up the 2809 tonight, however I have a question regarding the ON Screen Display.

I remember reading about a conflict (regarding the On Screen Menu Guide not appearing) using just the HDMI only to my Plasma. I added the Component connection and the Guide reappeared.

Only hassle with this setup is that I have to switch my Input selector on my TV if I will be leaving both inputs attached.

Is there a way to show the GUI for the receiver by using just the HDMI, or is it a Digital / Analog conflict...

Any other pointers for inital hookup, I am manually setting my settings now.

Thanks,

Nawlins...

the OSD should definitely appear over HDMI.

it's possible your TV doesn't accept 480i over HDMI... check the HDMI setup and make sure the i/p scaler is turned on (A to H) and that the resolution is 480p or higher, or just set it at "Auto".

I have the Panasonic 50PZ85U and the 2809CI and yes when I power up the plasma it does turn on the Denon. It will also control the volume on the Denon using the remote from the tv without programming it.

I only got as far as getting everything connected last night before I needed to help the neighbor. What are the advantages to bi-amping my fronts? Or should I just use the back surround to play music in another room? Thanks

there should be very little advantage, but you might as well hook it up yourself and see if you can hear a difference.

the thing is, it's not truly "bi-amping" when you use two channels in the same receiver, they all share the same power supply.... you may gain a little headroom, but if you truly find you need extra power you should use those pre-outs and get a nice external stereo amp.

Not really looking for more power. I was thinking more on the lines you could set the cutoff frequency and the amp wouldn't have to produce all of the frequencies.

say what? I'm not sure you are understanding the concepts here, the crossover frequency has nothing to do with bi-amping....

if you have an EXTERNAL crossover with ACTIVE bi-amping (i.e. the signal is split after it leaves the receiver and then the separated highs/lows are amplified independently, bypassing the speaker's internal crossover) then maybe. but you can't do this with a consumer AVR, and typical speakers with internal crossovers.

if all you want to do is ease the load on your AVR, just use a good sub and set your speakers to SMALL. that is actually "bi-amping", because all the low frequencies will be produced by the subwoofer's dedicated amplifier and the easier higher freq's will be handled by the AVR's amps.

I was talking about setting the crossover frequency in the receiver using the manual setup. Allowing X Hz and up to the lows in the towers and then another crossover point for the mids/highs in the tower. Instead of sending all frequencies out of one channel in the amp.

not possible, what you are describing is only doable with what I described above (an external active crossover network).

and, even if you could do it in the receiver, your speakers have INTERNAL crossovers built in.

again, if you want to ease the load on your amp, get a good sub. or get a powerful external amp.

go do some searches in the speaker forum on "active bi-amping" and "passive bi-amp" and read up on some threads so you get a good understanding of how this stuff works.

Thanks for the help. I'll pass on bi-amping and just run the back set to the other room.