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"Official" Denon AVR 2809CI/989 Thread - Page 16

post #451 of 5602
10/8/08 at 12:02pm
Only thing I wish the 2809ci had was networking/ethernet connection then I would be sold for sure!! We need future proof as they say!!!!
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post #452 of 5602
10/8/08 at 1:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stylz25 View Post

Only thing I wish the 2809ci had was networking/ethernet connection then I would be sold for sure!! We need future proof as they say!!!!

That begs the question of what future audio codec, or HDMI based application would the 2809CI not be able to handle or easily worked around?

For example you can still use a old non-HDMI receiver with a Blu-Ray player along with a 1080P HDMI display. The HDMI video simply runs straight from the player to the display and the Blu-Ray player can act as the decoder and output to the receiver if it offers optical outputs. There are always workarounds with new technology.

You already have Ipod, XM/Sirius connections built in. Via Denon iPod adapter you gain network access to your ISP for internet radio, or playing tunes from computer if needed. You can also add HD radio for $100 with a external tuner.

The 2809 already has Dynamic Volume and EQ, Sirius w/interface connector, HDMI-CEC, so what does the networking buy you? If you are thinking that most receivers have lots of firmware updates, they don't usually. There's still the RS-232 port if there was a necessary update per Denon.
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post #453 of 5602
10/8/08 at 1:42pm
Anyone experienced 2ch music problem? I've 988 not sure if the setup options are the same but recently after I config Audysessy the 2CH sounds are gone. All PURE DIRECT, DIRECT, and STEREO have no sound now. I've check amp setting it is in 3 which will do auto switch between Multi-ch and 2ch, and input setting is AUTO and my DVD player is hook up via Coaxial 3. This setup works before I config Audysessy so I'm not sure what setting got mess up. Any idea?
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post #454 of 5602
10/8/08 at 2:14pm
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by amik View Post

On either side of the "front A" text is an "L" and an "R". To hook up one set of front speakers you just use "Front A".


L&R is always from the frame of reference of the listener. So if you sit in the listening position, facing the front speakers all the right channels are to your right, left to the left.

oh wow, now I feel REALLY stupid.
I see now that the "front a" and "Front B" would be a total of 4 speakers.
somehow I got in my mind that Front A would be either the right front or the left front.
I got it now.
thanks a bunch.
I hope all will be patient as I try to get through this setup.
on to the manual now.
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post #455 of 5602
10/9/08 at 12:50pm
After some searching I thought I'd ask here..

I have a 2809 and recently purchased an ATI 4870 so I could run audio/video via HDMI. However, I soon discovered that the sound doesn't want to work. I should have a DVI doctor showing up today and I'll do some more "work" on trying to get this combination going.

I read that I need to use HDMI Input 4 (DVR). Other than that, are there any AVR settings that I need to adjust in order to "help" get audio working over HDMI from an ATI card?

Cheers!
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post #456 of 5602
10/9/08 at 2:07pm
Just got my 2809 today. First denon and the setup is taking a little bit. So far it sounds good on a couple demos.
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post #457 of 5602
10/9/08 at 2:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamprey View Post

After some searching I thought I'd ask here..

I have a 2809 and recently purchased an ATI 4870 so I could run audio/video via HDMI. However, I soon discovered that the sound doesn't want to work. I should have a DVI doctor showing up today and I'll do some more "work" on trying to get this combination going.

I read that I need to use HDMI Input 4 (DVR). Other than that, are there any AVR settings that I need to adjust in order to "help" get audio working over HDMI from an ATI card?

Cheers!

does the ATI card handle audio? that would be the first question. I'm not a big computer guy so I dont know. I do know that ATI makes video cards. i thought computers have separate video and sound cards. most likely your computer has a soundcard with an optical out.

edit: i looked up the ATI 4800 series real quick and saw it listed audio support. id imagine youd have to take a look more closely how the audio is supported...and make sure the computer is not using the older sound board.
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post #458 of 5602
10/9/08 at 4:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by higuy View Post

does the ATI card handle audio? that would be the first question. I'm not a big computer guy so I dont know. I do know that ATI makes video cards. i thought computers have separate video and sound cards. most likely your computer has a soundcard with an optical out.

edit: i looked up the ATI 4800 series real quick and saw it listed audio support. id imagine youd have to take a look more closely how the audio is supported...and make sure the computer is not using the older sound board.

Bascially, I was curious about any settings that I can set on the Denon that might affect it's output of the EDID (is that the right acronym). Yeah, yes, I'm glad you looked the card up. ATI included some RealTek audio on their HD cards so they can output both Audio and Video over HDMI. Apparently, ATI has a pretty hard time working with ARVs from what I have read and I'm included with those people. Again, I'm just looking for any AVR settings that might ease the pain.

EDIT: Well jsut a quick update I was able to get the 7.1 working from the ATI card to the receiver. I had trouble installing the drivers on several occasions. I had to go into the registry and wipe out all the Realtek references. However, as suggested by another forum member, using the 4th HDMI prort (DVR) seems to be the trick to get the card to be able to recongnize the receiver properly. Hopefully, that'll help someone else in the future.

Cheers!
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post #459 of 5602
10/10/08 at 8:41am
Another setup question:

If I have this receiver in my theater room (upstairs game room) and want to run the second zone to 2 downstairs speakers for XM radio, please tell me if I understand this correctly.

1)You can do a 5.1 system in the game room and then assign the rear surround speakers as zone 2, so that you can be watching a movie on zone 1 and listening to XM on zone 2 at the same time. Is this correct?

2) I can setup a 7.1 speaker config in the theater room and use FRONT A speakers for my downstairs XM speakers and then play either XM or watch a movie but not at the same time.

Can I do either of these things? This is my first receiver where these options are available to me, so I just want to understand. Thank you for your replies.
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post #460 of 5602
10/10/08 at 9:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamprey View Post

EDIT: Well jsut a quick update I was able to get the 7.1 working from the ATI card to the receiver. I had trouble installing the drivers on several occasions. I had to go into the registry and wipe out all the Realtek references. However, as suggested by another forum member, using the 4th HDMI prort (DVR) seems to be the trick to get the card to be able to recongnize the receiver properly. Hopefully, that'll help someone else in the future.

Cheers!

So there is a difference in HDMI input 4 than the other 3? What is the difference? I am only curious because I have a Dell Studio laptop and can't get audio from it to the Denon 2809's HDMI ports no matter what settings I try, even though it works fine connected to two TVs.

Thanks,
Dennis
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post #461 of 5602
10/10/08 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by djwilso View Post

So there is a difference in HDMI input 4 than the other 3? What is the difference? I am only curious because I have a Dell Studio laptop and can't get audio from it to the Denon 2809's HDMI ports no matter what settings I try, even though it works fine connected to two TVs.

Thanks,
Dennis

Dennis,

I'm not sure myself. Perhaps it was a fluke, but it seems others are having more success with port 4. Why that port would be any different I'm not sure but, it did work for me.

If you are still having trouble you might want to look up a product called DVI Doctor. It is supposed to help with some of the handshake or EDID issues.

Good luck!
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post #462 of 5602
10/11/08 at 12:32am
Hello all, first post!

I purchased a Denon AVR 2809CI and have a few questions.

When I first purchased the reciever and performed a rough pass through the settings I was pretty "meh'd" by the sound vs my old reciever (Denon AVR 1603). After that I decided to try the Audyssey setup, and I was amazed at the results. For the first time I understood what the term "warm sound" meant. It sounded nearly perfect.

Then for whatever reason I decided to reset the reciever to factory defaults and start over thinking that I could get those settings back easily if need be. The problem is I can't. I've ran Audyssey twice after that in order to get the sound back, but I can't get it. I thought I had written down the settings exactly, but even when I match them, the sound falls short. The bass isn't full enough and the highs are just slightly too high/loud. The only thing I can think of is that the manual EQ was enabled with the near-perfect configuration, but I could swear it wasn't. Are there other hidden settings or some other setting I'm missing? Basically I just set the speaker distance, crossovers, volumes, and all EQs to disabled.

I know this is quite a vague problem, but I'm pretty frustrated. I know the amazing sound is there, but I can't quite get it. One thing note-worthy is that when I setup Audyssey I only let it check the main position... I never do the other 5 positions as my listening space is small-ish. Does it really make a difference? The near-perfect config was obtained with only the main position measured.

Thanks in advance for any advice/answers!

PS: If it makes any difference, my setup is the 2809, Klipsch VF-35 Fronts, VC-25 Center, VB-15 Rears, and a PS3 for Blu-Ray.
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post #463 of 5602
10/11/08 at 9:45am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iorek View Post

Hello all, first post!

I purchased a Denon AVR 2809CI and have a few questions.

When I first purchased the reciever and performed a rough pass through the settings I was pretty "meh'd" by the sound vs my old reciever (Denon AVR 1603). After that I decided to try the Audyssey setup, and I was amazed at the results. For the first time I understood what the term "warm sound" meant. It sounded nearly perfect.

Then for whatever reason I decided to reset the reciever to factory defaults and start over thinking that I could get those settings back easily if need be. The problem is I can't. I've ran Audyssey twice after that in order to get the sound back, but I can't get it. I thought I had written down the settings exactly, but even when I match them, the sound falls short. The bass isn't full enough and the highs are just slightly too high/loud. The only thing I can think of is that the manual EQ was enabled with the near-perfect configuration, but I could swear it wasn't. Are there other hidden settings or some other setting I'm missing? Basically I just set the speaker distance, crossovers, volumes, and all EQs to disabled.

I know this is quite a vague problem, but I'm pretty frustrated. I know the amazing sound is there, but I can't quite get it. One thing note-worthy is that when I setup Audyssey I only let it check the main position... I never do the other 5 positions as my listening space is small-ish. Does it really make a difference? The near-perfect config was obtained with only the main position measured.

Thanks in advance for any advice/answers!

PS: If it makes any difference, my setup is the 2809, Klipsch VF-35 Fronts, VC-25 Center, VB-15 Rears, and a PS3 for Blu-Ray.

After you have redone Audyssey measurements, have you listened to the audio with Dynamic Volume and EQ on. A green light will display on the bottom right of the 2809 display as you press the DYN button on the remote. It cycles through 4 settings I believe. I also at first would just accept the settings in Audyssey rather then manually tweak them after measurements and calculation.

Also you have to do the measurements in a dead quiet room without holding microphone in your hand as either will effect Audyssey quite a bit.
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post #464 of 5602
10/11/08 at 12:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iorek View Post

Hello all, first post!

I purchased a Denon AVR 2809CI and have a few questions.

When I first purchased the reciever and performed a rough pass through the settings I was pretty "meh'd" by the sound vs my old reciever (Denon AVR 1603). After that I decided to try the Audyssey setup, and I was amazed at the results. For the first time I understood what the term "warm sound" meant. It sounded nearly perfect.

Then for whatever reason I decided to reset the reciever to factory defaults and start over thinking that I could get those settings back easily if need be. The problem is I can't. I've ran Audyssey twice after that in order to get the sound back, but I can't get it. I thought I had written down the settings exactly, but even when I match them, the sound falls short. The bass isn't full enough and the highs are just slightly too high/loud. The only thing I can think of is that the manual EQ was enabled with the near-perfect configuration, but I could swear it wasn't. Are there other hidden settings or some other setting I'm missing? Basically I just set the speaker distance, crossovers, volumes, and all EQs to disabled.

I know this is quite a vague problem, but I'm pretty frustrated. I know the amazing sound is there, but I can't quite get it. One thing note-worthy is that when I setup Audyssey I only let it check the main position... I never do the other 5 positions as my listening space is small-ish. Does it really make a difference? The near-perfect config was obtained with only the main position measured.

Thanks in advance for any advice/answers!

PS: If it makes any difference, my setup is the 2809, Klipsch VF-35 Fronts, VC-25 Center, VB-15 Rears, and a PS3 for Blu-Ray.

If you adjust anything lower than what Audyssey calculates such as crossover points, it will void the settings. Did you happen to lower a crossover point? Did you double check the measurements taking by Audyssey with a tape measure after the first calibration?
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post #465 of 5602
10/11/08 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by unorthodoxx View Post

If you adjust anything lower than what Audyssey calculates such as crossover points, it will void the settings. Did you happen to lower a crossover point? Did you double check the measurements taking by Audyssey with a tape measure after the first calibration?

This morning I restored the Audyssey settings and didn't adjust anything other than channel volume. I assume this won't void the settings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

After you have redone Audyssey measurements, have you listened to the audio with Dynamic Volume and EQ on. A green light will display on the bottom right of the 2809 display as you press the DYN button on the remote. It cycles through 4 settings I believe. I also at first would just accept the settings in Audyssey rather then manually tweak them after measurements and calculation.

Also you have to do the measurements in a dead quiet room without holding microphone in your hand as either will effect Audyssey quite a bit.

This seemed to do the trick. Dynamic EQ + Dynamic Volume set to Day makes the system sound so much better. Thanks a ton! I typically don't like things like EQ/Volume adjustments because I don't like the sound being manipulated, but hey, whatever works.
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post #466 of 5602
10/11/08 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iorek View Post

I typically don't like things like EQ/Volume adjustments because I don't like the sound being manipulated, but hey, whatever works.

I am glad it works out for you now! About the manipulation...I don't believe Audyssey manipulates the sound like the DSP settings do (which I avoid using). It helps compensate for room deficiencies and speaker placement. I love the way it has tamed my subwoofer. It isn't boomy anymore the sub frequencies have a quality/accurate sound to them now. On a bad note though, I now realize I need a sub that can go lower than 40hz!
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post #467 of 5602
10/12/08 at 8:48am
My decision between the 2809 and 3808 has come down to the user interface. I know there are other differences, but I am not an audiophile (yet) and would probably not understand or notice the subtleties of small hardware variations. The lack of networking is another, smaller worry.

For anyone who has used both -- does the 3808's new user interface make setup/usage exceptionally easier? Is the ease of use, in your opinion, worth the price difference from the 2809?


START BONUS RANT

As a user interface designer, I find it appalling that Denon thinks it OK to artificially cripple some of its units with a poorer interface just to have an added differentiator between products. All products, regardless of price, should be built with ease-of-use in mind.

Furthermore, in trying to research these products, I was shocked at the laziness and lack of care that Denon exhibited on their own website - listing incorrect specs, features that the product doesn't actually have and offering a compare mechanism that basically lies. Again, why make it hard for potential customers to learn your products?

For those with Denon products --- do they treat their customers better when it comes to live support? I worry that a company with the above issues would all-around just not be interested in helping their customers.

END BONUS RANT
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post #468 of 5602
10/12/08 at 9:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lem0nayde View Post

For anyone who has used both -- does the 3808's new user interface make setup/usage exceptionally easier? Is the ease of use, in your opinion, worth the price difference from the 2809?

I have not owned an 3808 before however this is my first AVR ever and my third ever receiver. The second receiver I owned was an Aiwa bookshelf stereo with T-Bass (lol) given as a gift over 18 years ago. I must say I was expecting GUI overlay for menu options I also expected that when I adjusted the volume or changed sound fields. At first the user interface was overwhelming with all the button presssing and terminology. Some things were buried in menu trees that I thought would not even include the option I was looking for. The remote was something new to learn as well but all in all I have caught on well to the to the use of these features within one day. Once set I rarely change anything other than Multi EQ to flat and Audyssey for music or movies or day and midnight mode.
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post #469 of 5602
10/12/08 at 11:19am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lem0nayde View Post

My decision between the 2809 and 3808 has come down to the user interface. I know there are other differences, but I am not an audiophile (yet) and would probably not understand or notice the subtleties of small hardware variations. The lack of networking is another, smaller worry.

For anyone who has used both -- does the 3808's new user interface make setup/usage exceptionally easier? Is the ease of use, in your opinion, worth the price difference from the 2809?


START BONUS RANT

As a user interface designer, I find it appalling that Denon thinks it OK to artificially cripple some of its units with a poorer interface just to have an added differentiator between products. All products, regardless of price, should be built with ease-of-use in mind.

Furthermore, in trying to research these products, I was shocked at the laziness and lack of care that Denon exhibited on their own website - listing incorrect specs, features that the product doesn't actually have and offering a compare mechanism that basically lies. Again, why make it hard for potential customers to learn your products?

For those with Denon products --- do they treat their customers better when it comes to live support? I worry that a company with the above issues would all-around just not be interested in helping their customers.

END BONUS RANT

First the AVR is not a computer, so don't expect anything more then a series of nestled command lists that you can adjust or initiate a limited number of functions.

You can have a pretty graphic setup GUI and text/icon setup GUI but they both achieve the same for most functions. Most receivers can have a confusing setup GUI interface to a new user, but then you learn. The manual (available online) is pdf which you can do a hypertext search on any key word or phrase to work out how to control the AVR interface.

Generally there are so many dealers its not hard to get assistance with a particular issue, but you can still call or email Denon for technical support. Denon make receivers that are judged excellent as far as reliability and operation by most users.

As unorthodoxx stated you don't spend a lot of time in the setup GUI interface after initial setup to your environment because the 2809 is not a network based AVR used for listening to internet radio stations or playing tunes as the 3808. You can end up with nearly the same functionality using the Denon networked iPod adapter which offers a additional graphic GUI to utilize.

Denon does however need to improve its website accuracy on comparison of spec's versus receivers.
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post #470 of 5602
10/12/08 at 2:55pm
Thanks unorthodoxx and JohnAV. You both confirmed my assumption -- that initial setup will maybe be a slightly bigger learning curve, but once the receiver is setup, the menus won't be used that often.

My current AVR has no on-screen abilities at all - so I imagine even an ugly interface will be a step up from straining to read the display on the front of the receiver!

JohnAV - though the receiver is not a computer, all interfaces should be organized, labeled and user-tested to guarantee the easiest possible experience for the user. Even a plain text interface can be a joy to use! Consumers must unite and demand more! Sorry, usability design is my passion.
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post #471 of 5602
10/12/08 at 3:16pm
Any thoughts on which input would be best for AppleTV? I am now connecting to HDMI/HDP but there is no button on the Denon remote to directly select that input. The DVD/HDP input select button toggles between DVD and HDP. This makes it difficult to program activities on the Harmony remote. Kind of strange since the source select knob can select the AppleTV.
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post #472 of 5602
10/12/08 at 6:00pm
ok just tried my first auto-setup with Audyssey.
got an error "phase" message with the subwoofer.
manual says you can get a phase error and have the speaker connected correctly.
I have an HSU sub with lfe cable placed in the "L" jack
crossover is set to 90hz, and volume at 12 o'clock position.
crossover choice is set to "in"
sub is connected to the pre-out sub jack. that's the right place correct?
couldn't find any other sub jack to use.
maybe I have to use a Y adaptor and connect to both "l" and "r"
maybe I need to set crossover setting to "out"
I honestly have no idea.
subs are not my strength unfortunately.
I had this hooked directly into the back of my Kuro before now.
guess I'll wait for an answer here before proceeding.
also, I don't have any hdmi cables connected to the display at the moment.
Does it make it any easier to do things if I can see the menu on the tv screen?
Like I said previously, I've never had a surround receiver so this is all new to me even though I know a great deal about the hd formats and so forth.
So I apologize again for my newbieness, but I'm completely on my own here--me and my manual.
also, I'm assuming the test tones are a default volume.
they sound awful loud. Is that normal?
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post #473 of 5602
10/12/08 at 6:36pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16x9enhanced View Post

ok just tried my first auto-setup with Audyssey.
got an error "phase" message with the subwoofer.
manual says you can get a phase error and have the speaker connected correctly.
I have an HSU sub with lfe cable placed in the "L" jack
crossover is set to 90hz, and volume at 12 o'clock position.
crossover choice is set to "in"
sub is connected to the pre-out sub jack. that's the right place correct?
couldn't find any other sub jack to use.
maybe I have to use a Y adaptor and connect to both "l" and "r"
maybe I need to set crossover setting to "out"
I honestly have no idea.
subs are not my strength unfortunately.
I had this hooked directly into the back of my Kuro before now.
guess I'll wait for an answer here before proceeding.
also, I don't have any hdmi cables connected to the display at the moment.
Does it make it any easier to do things if I can see the menu on the tv screen?
Like I said previously, I've never had a surround receiver so this is all new to me even though I know a great deal about the hd formats and so forth.
So I apologize again for my newbieness, but I'm completely on my own here--me and my manual.
also, I'm assuming the test tones are a default volume.
they sound awful loud. Is that normal?

Sometimes you get a phase error with speakers hooked up correctly. I found auto setup not that difficult. Yes it does make it easer if looking at the setup menu on the display if using HDMI cable IMHO. Yes test tones are awfully loud.
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post #474 of 5602
10/12/08 at 6:39pm
thanks for the response.
Trying to read the HSU manual it seems that maybe I need to set the crossover switch to "out"
any idea about this or whether I need to use a "Y" adaptor or not?
I mean does it sound like I have it correct right now?
the auto-setup wasn't too difficult until this error message.
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post #475 of 5602
10/12/08 at 6:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16x9enhanced View Post

I have an HSU sub with lfe cable placed in the "L" jack
crossover is set to 90hz, and volume at 12 o'clock position.
crossover choice is set to "in"
sub is connected to the pre-out sub jack. that's the right place correct?
couldn't find any other sub jack to use.
maybe I have to use a Y adaptor and connect to both "l" and "r"
maybe I need to set crossover setting to "out"
I honestly have no idea.
subs are not my strength unfortunately.

Right - subwoofer gets connected to SW jack from PRE OUT (see page 10 users manual)
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post #476 of 5602
10/12/08 at 6:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lem0nayde View Post

Thanks unorthodoxx and JohnAV. You both confirmed my assumption -- that initial setup will maybe be a slightly bigger learning curve, but once the receiver is setup, the menus won't be used that often.

My current AVR has no on-screen abilities at all - so I imagine even an ugly interface will be a step up from straining to read the display on the front of the receiver!

Just remember...take the first calculation in Audyssey and verify the speaker distances with a tape measurer. Also if your subwoofer isn't within - / + 3 adjust your level. Once all is good you can go on to get at least six measurements. This prolly took me the most time because I really wanted to tweak the speaker toe in and placement before listening/testing half my library (which was pretty exciting)and I didn't want to calibrate again until I upgraded down the line.
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post #477 of 5602
10/12/08 at 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16x9enhanced View Post

thanks for the response.
Trying to read the HSU manual it seems that maybe I need to set the crossover switch to "out"
any idea about this or whether I need to use a "Y" adaptor or not?
I mean does it sound like I have it correct right now?
the auto-setup wasn't too difficult until this error message.

Obvious question but you didn't mention this earlier. Does your sub have a phase control on it? I only have 0/180 phase switch. I know some HSU have a variable phase knob.

I have set my phase set to 0 that gives me the fullest low end compared to 180. I also came up with no phase errors, in the subwoofer. The center was a different story but in that case I did have the wires crossed.
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post #478 of 5602
10/12/08 at 8:30pm
Does anyone know if album art from a second generation iPod nano (does not have the apple proprietary chip) can be displayed on my sony XBR5 via an iPod dock? I have done a search where someone states some receivers can not do this, but it was not the Denon 989. I am using RCA cables from the dock to the 989 and a Svideo cable form the dock to the receiver. I have assigned the input to the 989 as the ipod dock. (this is a generic iPod dock not the expensive denon models). Music plays fine but neither the iPods menus nor the album art is being displayed on the TV. The receiver input I am using is the one labeled VCR/iPod and the S video cable is connected to the S video input directly above the RCA analog audio inputs. I can not figure out how to assign that S video input. Do I have an input problem or is it not possible to display the album art and iPod menus on the TV screen?

Thanks
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post #479 of 5602
10/13/08 at 1:39am
yeah I have the 0 to 180 degrees switch.
I have it set to 0 which as far as I can tell from reading the HSU manual should be correct.
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post #480 of 5602
10/13/08 at 6:53am
So I want to get the 2809ci today. I have coupons for CC but they only sell the 989. Is that the same as 2809ci? What is the diffence?

Thanks all this thread was helpful in my decision.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › "Official" Denon AVR 2809CI/989 Thread