The Reasons Why I'm Heading Back To DVD From Blu-ray  

a larger display might change your opinion of the bd pq.
imo, 37" is a bit small to get much WOW! out of an hd format (or even the oppo 983).
but the 983 is a great way to go!
i like my dvds just as much as my hd dvds or bds.
many/most of my 800-900+? dvds will never make it to blu, at least in my lifetime.

i dont have a 983 but i use the onkyo hd805, a tosh xa2 clone-with reon vp-almost as good as a 983.

either way, enjoy!

ps-do yourself a HUGE favor and get an hd projector (for a ~100"+ image!!)
you'll be glad u did.

Kage, you have some valid points do what makes you feel good with your setup... a good quality upconverting player does look good damn good at that.. makes me think sometimes why I spent my money on the newer format players...

westgate, going with the PJ (native 1080p) was the best move I've done. I enjoy it more than the 50" plasma.. It even got better when I put that (HE LENS) in front of the PJ. "CIH" Cinemascope all day everyday.

Steve

oh, man. now i got to be jealous all day. i'm still in the dreaming stage re lens based cih.
congrats and enjoy!!

Here are my reasons for dumping Blu-Ray:

1). The quality of my standard DVD's being up-converted is fine by me. Wife and neighbors can't tell when I'm playing transformers in HD or from the DVD. I do see some improvements with a blu-ray or HD-DVD movie, but nothing that would make me replace an existing movie that I already own on DVD.

2) I don't like Sony. They have never been a consumer friendly company and they are always trying to push proprietory formats.

3). I can download HD content since I have a HTPC. More online content is starting to emerge and with 15 meg download speed with my fios line downloading a hefty 10 + GB movie does not take too long. Not to mention all those awesome HD *.mkv files that you can get on usenet.

4). My Xbox 360 can download 720p movies and they look great to me.

5). The WOW factor is not there with DVD vs Blu-Ray. I do see the WOW factor with SDTV and HDTV over cable. I have DirecTV and standard def channels look ok, but the HD channels make a big difference. The same cannot be said for DVD to Blu-Ray. Sure if you sit 3 inches from your TV there is some improvement but not to the degree that some suggest when you are at a normal viewing distance.

6). The overall movie watching experience is not that different. I have several duplicate movies on DVD and Blu-Ray / HD-DVD. ( I have a dual HD-DVD / Blu-Ray drive in the HTPC ). The Mission Impossible series on Blu-Ray looks the same to me as it does on DVD. Transformers on HD-DVD looks slightly better then the DVD version but not OMG better. You could watch the DVD version of Transformers on my setup and still be blow away with how awesome it looks.

7). I think people are starting to see that Blu-Ray is more hype then quality. You pay a huge premium for the hardware and movies and then realize that the overall experience is not that different from a nice upconverted DVD. I bought into the hype at first, but now I'm back to DVD.

I thought that I would be purchasing a bluray player Christmas '06. That turned into Christmas '07, which still resulted in no bluray purchase. So I figured Christmas '08. Now, with the Sony S550 coming out, we are where we should have been over two years ago (where HD DVD was). Let's wait and see what SD DVD pq is like on the new Sony. To tide me over, I purchased an Oppo 983 over the summer. The pq is pretty good. I fear that it will be another year before there is a player out that does bluray with all audio codecs and has kick ass SD DVD pq and it at 2.0. Still better yet, I want DVD-A and SA CD. So, a do it all player would probably cost $2K (the rumored new Denon is like $3K). Screw that. So I guess I will just hang on to my 983. Also, there are hundreds, if not thousands of titles that will never be released on bluray.

No offense thats cool you wanna stay SD and all. Why do people need to start a thread to justify their way, need support for your actions??

Or reply to them.

Ask him how many DVD players he's bought over the past few years.

-Bill

I'm not trying to "justify" my way. I'm just posting to say I got sucked into the hype of 6 x better quality, 1080p, blah blah blah. I went out and purchased a "LG GGC-H20L" Bluray / HD-DVD drive for my HTPC thinking that it would blow me away. Boy was I wrong. I have a decent setup with a Samsung 52" model 650A which came out this spring. It has the 120Hz and all the bells and whistles that a current gen LCD tv should have. I connect my HTPC to this tv using HDMI not DVI. My video card is ATI Radeon 3450 with HDMI out, so its not a cable thing either. Like I said in my previous post. I have an upconvert philips DVD with HDMI out and if I put duplicate movies in and just switch the source on the TV while the movies are playing I only see a very slight difference. Certainly not the quality difference I would expect with a product that by the numbers is 6x better then 480p.

To boil it all down for me. It's not worth the money at this point to jump to Blu-Ray. It's not the same jump in quality from VHS to DVD. I know the math suggests that in theory it is, but visually the quality jump is not that great with the current gen LCD tv's and upconverting DVD players. I post this information so that someone on the fence about making the jump to a blu-ray player may decide to stick with DVD and save some cash. To each his own.

On my 60inch SXRD, there is a substantial upgrade in PQ over my Oppo. Noticeably vibrant colors and details, compared to bluray the picture on the oppo looks dark and muddy. Would even say that on most of new films, its day and night difference. Watch "Super bad", "Zodiac", "Transformers", "Hot Fuzz", "Corpse Bride", "Cars", "Enchanted" and "21", all I've seen them both on HD and SD and doesn't even compare. I have no idea how you guys are saying theres not much difference, maybe you guys are connected using composite cables or something??

There are a lot of factors to consider; TV type, size, specs, calibrated or not, source material, lighting, sitting distance/angle and of course opinions. Personally I think to take full advantage of Blu-Ray your display should be at least 50'' sitting no more than 10 ft away. But that's just my opinion. It's great for projectors and huge screens, that I know for sure.

You would have to be blind not to see the difference between 480p and 1080p. Regular DVD's are just plain nasty to watch after the HD experience. If you want to go backwards to that inferior format...fine. But trying to argue for little difference is just plain silly.

I agree there is a substantial difference... Still I'm with the OP as I've already returned to DVD. My decision was easy as I chose the wrong side in the hd battle...

Meh, I bought the hddvd player as an upconvert first anywho. To me the picture is an improvement over my oppo 980, and with the 10 free movies and 50 bucks back from best buy it really paid for itself.
Add to that I live in an apartment- and don't see that changing too soon- watching a 37" screen. At 37" hd disc is really unnecessary. Part of the reason I stick with the 37! (I'm incredibly picky )

And let's be honest, hd isn't there yet... Hd cable is so so, 360 looks nice but even a lot of its' stuff isn't ACTUAL hd (halo 3, we're looking at you), and blu ray still has a rather large chance of stalling in the market.

Plus, there is so much great stuff still in SD! Not just DVD but also many TV shows we watch have yet to jump over, of course the wii... hell I still play ps2 and dreamcast on my lcd!

And before anyone flames me- yes, I admit I still go to the theater; and yes, I'm still using dipole/biople rear speakers... I'm a little behind the times :P

You missed the biggest reason. You don't have to worry where you want to watch the movie when you buy the movie. Unless you have a blu ray player on every screen and in the car, it can be a problem.

Too bad there is no combo discs for BD. I have a couple combo HD DVD discs. Everytime someone complains BD/HD does not offer enough wow factor for PQ, I just play them the same movie on each side of the combo disc. The difference is crystal clear

That being said, most films are shot in low contrast and soft image deliberately. The 1080p HD resolution will not showcase the potentials of higher details it can offer in those situations. But the difference is there. You just need to pay attention to. The WOW factor will show more clearly in materials that are shot using HD video cameras as opposed to films.

Some of the OP's points about expensiveness of BD movies and players are valid points. But remember some of us will spare no expense to achive any bit of PQ improvements, i.e. those who spent >$1k for a SD DVD player.

im also sticking with upconverting dvds for now. anyone know roughly in how many years they will stop making dvds? when that happens i will switch to blu ray

If that happens, they probably stop making blu ray as well. I don't see regular DVD disappear any time soon.

wow thats completely false.

One issue that's only being mentioned recently -- and that I've seen for myself with Tartan's recent release of Bergman's "Seventh Seal" on blu-ray -- is how much better black and white films look on blu-ray.

It's quite astonishing, actually. I wasn't prepared for the difference -- and I'm thrilled to see it. Tartan included both the SD and BD in the Bergman pack -- and it's quite an eye-opener to visually see the difference (on a mere 46" Samsung no less.) I read about blu-ray and b&w -- but I wasn't convinced until I saw it for myself.

(And P&P's recent 'Black Narcissus' on blu-ray. Holy cow -- mind boggling color and detail. Beautiful.)

I expect Criterion's upcoming 'The Third Man' and 'The 400 Blows' will be quite a revelation in b&w.

Anyway, if you're not into blu-ray -- that's fine. I'm sure blu-ray will do fine without you.

I do agree, though -- enough with releasing the newest crap (i.e. wretched films) on blu-ray. The content is key in this next year, I suspect. More b&w please.

Hmmmm..... where have I heard the term 'good enough' before?

I agree with some of the OP's concerns. While I don't own a BP. A good friend does and I have watched a handful of movies at his house on it. We both have the Sony 60A300 SXRD. The picture does look good.

My number one complaint has been that there are too many problems with these players. It seems that you just can't buy one,hook it up and watch movies without it freezing up, powering down, needing to be returned because of color washout or needing the firmware upgraded etc.

I decided to upgrade to the Oppo 983H. I have had it a week and it is giving me problems. It has locked up twice and it does not always do what is commanded from my Harmony remote. I guess I should just stick with my trusted 4yr old Pioneer 59avi that has not had one glitch since day one.

I'm also waiting for a better player. Specifically a carousel changer (not a megachanger. 5 or 6 disc.)


Well, in their defense, those new movies are what sell. I'd also like to see more b&w films, but the general public seems to prefer Aston Kutcher acting like a fratboy.

OK........ I give you permission to stay with Standard DVD's.

we may now lock this thread!

-Mike

And why does someone need to justify an individual purpose by using an argument for "most people". Smells like a dodge to me...

It doesn't help that half the reasons are wrong, or only correct if you're actively making them hard for yourself.

I have a 52" RP LCD 720p from Panny. I bought a Toshiba HD-DVD A3 for $80 after Toshiba bailed and several HD-DVDs on sale from Amazon. I also have an Oppo 981. For me, there is no substantial change to PQ between the Oppo and the A3. I can see a difference, but not enough to tell which version I am watching. I think several good points were made here on pricing, portability and the wow factor. I realize that a large 1080p TV will increase the wow factor, and that a HDMI AVR should do the same for the sound, but for now, no BD player in my immediate future. I certainly want to wait for the problems to be resolved, the prices of both players and media to come down, and for my 2 year old HDTV to die.
My wife thinks I'm an HD snob because I hate to watch SD programming, but some of the posting in this thread make me look like a piker.

Contrary to those who don't like this post I think it does provide some insight into why people who are perfectly capable and appreciative of HDM don't jump in.

I had HD DVD but returned it for all the reasons outlined above. Even today I think the players are just getting up to a very minimal level of Profile 2 functionality. The spec has so many optional features that there is too much variability in functionality between players for me. I suspect that all players will eventually support on-board audio decoding and have the minimum amt of storage included to be classified as Profile 2 out of the box. BD just needs a little more time in the oven for me.

I'm not heading back to DVD from Blu-ray, but expect to keep buying more DVDs. I mean...how many zombie, horror, sci-fi, matrix, spiderman, and lord of the rings films do I really want to watch in HD? Geeze, when they used to talk about the PS3-crowd favorites dominating the releases in Blu-ray, I think they were right.

the horror and sci-fi movies are the ones i want to see in hd. the major space operas (star wars, aliens, etc), the hellraiser series, stuff like that.
i agree-dont need to see any more zombie movies.
i havent seen any of the l o t r movies and dont plan to.
sp'man 2 & 3 i have yet to see.

1. My job is good enough
2. My house is good enough
3. My car is good enough
4. My phone is good enough
5. My stereo is good enough
6. My TV is good enough

....the list goes on. Life is all about making choices. Unfortunate as it may seem. Even DVD v. Blu Ray is a trade-off and I have yet to find a movie that I did not enjoy on DVD enjoyable just because it was Blu Ray - with one exception - Patton

just kidding. I enjoyed both versions. But the Blu Ray looked really nicely restored to me.

Blu Ray is the best way to see a movie as it looked like in a theatre - often better. If that is what drives you then Blu Ray is the way to go. But getting a front projector and a 100 inch plus screen is probably equally important. If you are going with a 50 inch or so screen, then you've already compromised the Directors intent. After all which director intended the movie to be seen on a 50 inch screen or smaller.

Amazing, but some movies like Miami Vice look like they were shot in SD to me!!! Just the style.