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Denon Authorized Dealers, and Warranties

post #1 of 71
8/18/08 at 4:25pm
Thread Starter 
I'm looking to buy a new Denon 3808, and of course I've read about buying from authorized dealers. According to Denon's website, they are the only places to buy a receiver if I want to have a valid warranty. I have a couple of questions for you knowledgeable folks out there.

1. How do all the other folks on the web ( other than the authorized dealers) get away selling these units and advertise a full warranty? Does Denon really deny a warranty claim if purchased from one of these dealers? Where do they get the units? One would assume that if Denon wants us to buy from an authorized dealer, they would make their products available only through said dealers.

2. All the authorized dealers listed on Denon's site have the same selling price for the 3808, which is retail price. I've read in this forum that one can get this unit for close to a grand...how can that be? I know DakMark had them for 998, but that is refurb, and only has 90 days warranty, as opposed to the 2 year on new.

3. If anyone has experience buying from some other source, and then needing warranty, please advise. How did it go?

4. If anyone knows anywhere I can get a good deal on a new one, with a valid warranty please let me know. I am ready to buy, but I can't see paying retail.

Thanks for all your help. I appreciate it very much.
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post #2 of 71
8/18/08 at 4:34pm
I am in the same boat. One idea I came across was buying it from Costco. They are not an authorized dealer, hence no Denon backed warranty, but they have an incredible return policy. If the unit needs to be repaired, you can supposedly just return it for a new one.

Denon 3808 - http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product...=1&topnav=&s=1

Denon 4308 - http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product...=1&topnav=&s=1

Return policy - http://www.costco.com/Service/Featur...uctNo=11204333

Just an idea. I still may just fork over the extra cash for the Denon warranty. I just need to do some more research with the Costco return policy, and want to see if there is some Labor Day sale.


Poirot
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post #3 of 71
8/18/08 at 4:43pm
I would guess that Denon won't really deny the warranty, but I have no first hand experience on that question so this is just my opinion. If you take Denon at their word they are punishing consumers for their inability to control their distribution channel.

I also didn't realize Costco sold Denon.
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post #4 of 71
8/18/08 at 6:36pm
Just buy form a Authorized dealer. Trust me! My Denon **** the bed 3 days after I got it, my fault actually. Denon repaired it fast and no questions were asked.


I went through J&R Music world. For the same price you can buy it at Costco(unauthorized) you can get it at J&R (authorized)

It has nothing to do with distribution channels. Some places sell refirbs and they DON'T have to disclose it.
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post #5 of 71
8/18/08 at 6:38pm
Quote:


you can get it at J&R

Always call J&R and negotiate with the sales guys!! Do not just order online, you can get some great deals that way.
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post #6 of 71
8/18/08 at 7:02pm
I ordered my 3808 from Costco for three reasons.

1) Because I have no authorized center within two hours drive of me. If I had both a Costco and an Denon authorized dealer nearby then I'd give my support to the Denon dealer.

2) The Costco warranty is a no risk warranty for at least as long as the Denon warranty is. They actually added a year of full warranty coverage to my Panasonic plasma factory plan. So at minimum, if within two years the receiver breaks, all I have to do is drive down the road ten minutes for a full refund or a new replacement.

3) It was fairly priced at $1,300 with free shipping. (Any refund would also cover shipping costs too, and that applies for me because I paid for expedited service).

I'm fairly confident that I won't have any trouble upgrading the 3808 once this becomes available, but guess what? If for some reason I'm not able to upgrade my 3808 and that bothers me, I could just take the receiver back to Costco after my new receiver from the authorized dealer arrives. Zero risk!
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post #7 of 71
8/18/08 at 7:06pm
Thread Starter 
I didn't realize Costco had them either. Please let me know if you find out any more about the warranty from them, Poirot.

It just kills me that some retailers think they can charge retail because they happen to be one of the few that can offer the warranty...which, if you take it at face value over the non authorized sellers, works out to be maybe $400. What a scam.
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post #8 of 71
8/19/08 at 4:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treasure Hunter View Post

I didn't realize Costco had them either. Please let me know if you find out any more about the warranty from them, Poirot.

It just kills me that some retailers think they can charge retail because they happen to be one of the few that can offer the warranty...which, if you take it at face value over the non authorized sellers, works out to be maybe $400. What a scam.

I emailed them for clarification on the warranty/replacement issue. On the 3808 page is the following blurb...

"This item is covered by Costco's guarantee to refund your purchase price if you are not completely satisfied. Costco's guarantee applies, even though this item may not be covered by the manufacturer's warranty, because Costco is not an "authorized" dealer of the merchandise."



Poirot
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post #9 of 71
8/19/08 at 6:42pm
It looks like I will be buying from Costco soon, too. My local dealer refuses to demo ANY receiver and will not budge on the MSRP. I thought I found another one nearby but they went belly up a few weeks ago (small wonder the one remaining dealer in the area refuses to move on price).

I am still a little concerned regarding the pending firmware upgrade in October and how it will be handled for "unauthorized" units. I guess there will also be no point in registering our units with Denon (if that would be possible at all).

I also emailed Costco regarding their policy a few days ago but have yet to receive a reply. The blurb on the 3808 web page is pretty self-explanatory, however. In theory I could return the unit in just under 2 years and say I am no longer satisfied, get my money back and buy the newest model.
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post #10 of 71
8/19/08 at 7:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnergyOwner View Post

It looks like I will be buying from Costco soon, too. My local dealer refuses to demo ANY receiver and will not budge on the MSRP. I thought I found another one nearby but they went belly up a few weeks ago (small wonder the one remaining dealer in the area refuses to move on price).

I am still a little concerned regarding the pending firmware upgrade in October and how it will be handled for "unauthorized" units. I guess there will also be no point in registering our units with Denon (if that would be possible at all).

I also emailed Costco regarding their policy a few days ago but have yet to receive a reply. The blurb on the 3808 web page is pretty self-explanatory, however. In theory I could return the unit in just under 2 years and say I am no longer satisfied, get my money back and buy the newest model.

I was on Denon's site and looked up the registration info. The area where they ask for the dealer name and city is not required, so I assume you can properly register the unit. After all, what if you bought it second hand. The registration makes updates and other info available, so I don't see a problem with the new firmware. I will write Denon and ask that question. I'll let you know what I find out.

Costco sounds like a great place to buy the 3808. I know some people told me that most of the authorized dealers will give pretty deep discounts if you call and ask, so that is an option, and it includes the warranty. I plan on buying mine and putting it on my American Express card, which will give me another full year of warranty, actually most cards will do that, so you should think about that too.
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post #11 of 71
8/19/08 at 7:21pm
6th Ave Electronics is an authorized dealer. If you call them and mention that your an AVS forum member, they will give you an outstanding deal on a 3808. Much better than the prices mentioned at Costco.
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post #12 of 71
8/19/08 at 7:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treasure Hunter View Post

I was on Denon's site and looked up the registration info. The area where they ask for the dealer name and city is not required, so I assume you can properly register the unit. After all, what if you bought it second hand. The registration makes updates and other info available, so I don't see a problem with the new firmware. I will write Denon and ask that question. I'll let you know what I find out.

Costco sounds like a great place to buy the 3808. I know some people told me that most of the authorized dealers will give pretty deep discounts if you call and ask, so that is an option, and it includes the warranty. I plan on buying mine and putting it on my American Express card, which will give me another full year of warranty, actually most cards will do that, so you should think about that too.

I would buy from a local dealer but mine doesn't discount and I won't drive 2 hours to the next dealer. Costco is 15 minutes away. I was going to use my Costco Amex (1% rebate as well).
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post #13 of 71
8/19/08 at 7:27pm
The Costco warranty goes beyond theory; it's been their practice from the beginning. However if I'm going to return something that's not broken, then I'll do so within the first 90 days (their return time frame for computers and other high warranty abuse items). While you really could wait 23.99 months and return a fully functioning 3808 for a full refund, it was those kinds of actions that drove many items down to the 90 day return status. Now if mine breaks in the 23rd month then yes, I'm probably in there for my refund or replacement. One thing you need to remember however, you have to be a member to return something at Costco. Your membership can lapse but you'll need to re-up before you could get the refund.

Also, if you're considering Costco.com as a source on the 3808, you might want to decide soon. At this time they have 4 left (and they're shipping from FL, FWIW).

I should be getting mine by early next week. I look forward to finding out if I have a two or three year warranty. Icing on the cake if it turns out to be covered for three years. That's about how long I owned the 2803 before this upgrade.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EnergyOwner View Post

I also emailed Costco regarding their policy a few days ago but have yet to receive a reply. The blurb on the 3808 web page is pretty self-explanatory, however. In theory I could return the unit in just under 2 years and say I am no longer satisfied, get my money back and buy the newest model.
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post #14 of 71
8/19/08 at 7:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by talen316 View Post

6th Ave Electronics is an authorized dealer. If you call them and mention that your an AVS forum member, they will give you an outstanding deal on a 3808. Much better than the prices mentioned at Costco.

And shipping costs to Canada? Duties? If I have a problem will my local Denon dealer treat me as well as he would if I bought the 3808 from him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canyonlands View Post

The Costco warranty goes beyond theory; it's been their practice from the beginning. However if I'm going to return something that's not broken, then I'll do so within the first 90 days (their return time frame for computers and other high warranty abuse items). While you really could wait 23.99 months and return a fully functioning 3808 for a full refund, it was those kinds of actions that drove many items down to the 90 day return status. Now if mine breaks in the 23rd month then yes, I'm probably in there for my refund or replacement. One thing you need to remember however, you have to be a member to return something at Costco. Your membership can lapse but you'll need to re-up before you could get the refund.

Also, if you're considering Costco.com as a source on the 3808, you might want to decide soon. At this time they have 4 left (and they're shipping from FL, FWIW).

I should be getting mine by early next week. I look forward to finding out if I have a two or three year warranty. Icing on the cake if it turns out to be covered for three years. That's about how long I owned the 2803 before this upgrade.

No worries as I am a Costco Executive member already (2% rebate). I do my weekly grocery shopping there so no chance of membership lapsing either. I wouldn't abuse the policy either, its just nice to know that rather than a repair, I could get the full refund and move on to a new unit.
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post #15 of 71
8/19/08 at 7:45pm
We turned down the executive membership because we just don't shop there very often. I guess it would have been worth it this year however.

I was also willing to pay more for the 3808 (than the 6AVE price) to have the security and convenience of a nearby returns point. That said, I've not heard much in the way of Denon receivers needing to be repaired nor did I have any problems with my 2803. I'm sure I'll be checking back into the 3808 owner's thread due to the shortcomings of the owner's manual though!

Happy shopping.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EnergyOwner View Post

No worries as I am a Costco Executive member already (2% rebate). I do my weekly grocery shopping there so no chance of membership lapsing either. I wouldn't abuse the policy either, its just nice to know that rather than a repair, I could get the full refund and move on to a new unit.
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post #16 of 71
8/20/08 at 5:49am
Here is the response I got back :


Thank you for your e-mail to Costco Wholesale.
This item does not fall under the 90 day return policy.
We guarantee your satisfaction on every product we sell with a full refund. Exceptions: Televisions, projectors, computers, cameras, camcorders, iPOD / MP3 players and cellular phones must be returned within 90 days of purchase for a refund.

We offer two convenient return options. Costco.com refunds include shipping and handling fees.

1. For an immediate refund, simply return your purchase to any Costco location. To find a location, please click http://www.costco.com/Warehouse/Locator.aspx.

2. Or, you may reply to this e-mail if you are unable to return the product to the nearest Costco location due to product size and weight. Please include your name, order confirmation number, phone number, and the reason for the return. You will be contacted regarding your return within 5 to 7 business days.



Thank you,

Rochelle
Costco Wholesale Corporation


----

It would appear that, by extrapolation, that they would refund the full cost if the receiver went belly up.


Poirot
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post #17 of 71
8/20/08 at 8:04am
I recently purchased a 788 manufacturer refurb from uBid, which advertised a 90 day warranty. They aren't listed on Denon's authorized retailers, but I figured that uBid couldn't actually advertise the warranty without it being so. Anyways, the receiver is disfunctional and the company that refurbished it sent me a UPS label to send it back to them to have it re-refurbished. I guess my point is that I don't know how you know for sure that a retailer is authorized, but if they are a big retailer advertising a warranty then it's probably safe.
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post #18 of 71
8/20/08 at 12:18pm
Order placed and shipped. Will take a week or so to arrive and I'll report back when it does.
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post #19 of 71
8/20/08 at 2:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_P View Post

I recently purchased a 788 manufacturer refurb from uBid, which advertised a 90 day warranty. They aren't listed on Denon's authorized retailers, but I figured that uBid couldn't actually advertise the warranty without it being so. Anyways, the receiver is disfunctional and the company that refurbished it sent me a UPS label to send it back to them to have it re-refurbished. I guess my point is that I don't know how you know for sure that a retailer is authorized, but if they are a big retailer advertising a warranty then it's probably safe.

It's my understanding that if they aren't listed on Denon's site, they aren't authorized. Local authorized stores have the authorized sign displayed, but etailers should be on Denon's list to be valid. I wonder who will do the re-refurb on your unit. Let us know if you can.
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post #20 of 71
8/20/08 at 3:31pm
FWIW, I purchased from a non authorized dealer a few years ago and when I went to get some warranty work done on the unit they denied it and I had to jump through hoops and threaten to call the AG and complain about price fixing before they would agree to fix it.

Not sure if it was really worth the savings, I did get it covered under warranty in the end, but it did cost me time and of course the annoyance factor of having to deal with it... Then again I have had to go through the same thing with authorized dealers and warranty work as well...

-pd
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post #21 of 71
8/20/08 at 3:54pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdermody View Post

FWIW, I purchased from a non authorized dealer a few years ago and when I went to get some warranty work done on the unit they denied it and I had to jump through hoops and threaten to call the AG and complain about price fixing before they would agree to fix it.

Not sure if it was really worth the savings, I did get it covered under warranty in the end, but it did cost me time and of course the annoyance factor of having to deal with it... Then again I have had to go through the same thing with authorized dealers and warranty work as well...

-pd


I hear what you are saying on both accounts. I feel that if a company makes their product available from any source, it should be covered under the warranty.
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post #22 of 71
8/20/08 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_P View Post

I recently purchased a 788 manufacturer refurb from uBid, which advertised a 90 day warranty. They aren't listed on Denon's authorized retailers, but I figured that uBid couldn't actually advertise the warranty without it being so.

Right, I mean companies are never dishonest now, are they?

Quote:


Anyways, the receiver is disfunctional and the company that refurbished it sent me a UPS label to send it back to them to have it re-refurbished. I guess my point is that I don't know how you know for sure that a retailer is authorized, but if they are a big retailer advertising a warranty then it's probably safe.

Sure you can, easy enough. Online vendors are displayed here:

http://www.usa.denon.com/OnlineETailers.asp

Your vendor isn't on the list, sorry to say.

It appears one can search for brick/mortar vendors there as well.

The default page, though, is:

http://www.usa.denon.com/1713.asp
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post #23 of 71
8/20/08 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treasure Hunter View Post

It's my understanding that if they aren't listed on Denon's site, they aren't authorized. Local authorized stores have the authorized sign displayed, but etailers should be on Denon's list to be valid. I wonder who will do the re-refurb on your unit. Let us know if you can.

Just from looking at Denon's authorized e-tailers over the last several months, I see it changes sometimes, so I imagine brick/mortar dealers change as well. Do you think Denon sends a rep. to get the sign back. I mean, the vendor can say they lost the sign, and then still use it. The point is, don't trust the sign, always look them up on Denon's site.
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post #24 of 71
8/20/08 at 4:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

Your vendor isn't on the list, sorry to say.

Now, I just remembered having heard of a large online vendor and a brick/mortar vendor that each claimed to be authorized, but weren't on the list. (I think one was actually Denon and the other Marantz, but it doesn't matter, the point is the same.) So, in each case, people contacted Denon (and Marantz), and they confirmed those vendors as actually being authorized. So, if a vendor isn't on the list, try e-mailing Denon, so one has it is writing.
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post #25 of 71
8/20/08 at 8:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnergyOwner View Post

Order placed and shipped. Will take a week or so to arrive and I'll report back when it does.

Mine finally shipped today as well. It was just yesterday that UPS dropped a brand new AVR-988 off in my hands. One that I'd ordered a day before deciding to go with the 3808. I bought the 988 from an authorized dealer and could send it back unopened but will likely put it up for auction after the 3808 arrives.

It's been six months since I had an operational HT due to our relocation so it's pretty tough having a perfectly good HT receiver in the house that I can't/won't unbox.

I'm fairly certain that there are no limits on the refund/warranty for our AVR-3808s. I've found nowhere within the return policy that a time limit has been given.
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post #26 of 71
8/20/08 at 8:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canyonlands View Post

Mine finally shipped today as well. It was just yesterday that UPS dropped a brand new AVR-988 off in my hands. One that I'd ordered a day before deciding to go with the 3808. I bought the 988 from an authorized dealer and could send it back unopened but will likely put it up for auction after the 3808 arrives.

It's been six months since I had an operational HT due to our relocation so it's pretty tough having a perfectly good HT receiver in the house that I can't/won't unbox.

I'm fairly certain that there are no limits on the refund/warranty for our AVR-3808s. I've found nowhere within the return policy that a time limit has been given.

I'm still using my 14-year old RCA Dolby Surround amp. The left channel cuts out occasionally but its better than the TV speakers. I suspect the 3808 will be a noticeable upgrade. Good luck with your new amp.
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post #27 of 71
8/21/08 at 2:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

Just from looking at Denon's authorized e-tailers over the last several months, I see it changes sometimes, so I imagine brick/mortar dealers change as well. Do you think Denon sends a rep. to get the sign back. I mean, the vendor can say they lost the sign, and then still use it. The point is, don't trust the sign, always look them up on Denon's site.

That's interesting. If they drop an etailer, would they then honor the warranty? Wonder how that would work.
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post #28 of 71
8/21/08 at 8:27pm
I went to the Denon website and requested a quote for a 4306 via email from all of the dealers in my state (NJ). Best offer was almost 25% off MSRP and I ended up buying from them. Have had the receiver now for almost 18 mos, no regrets, though I did not need the warranty (yet).
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post #29 of 71
8/21/08 at 9:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnergyOwner View Post

I'm still using my 14-year old RCA Dolby Surround amp. The left channel cuts out occasionally but its better than the TV speakers. I suspect the 3808 will be a noticeable upgrade. Good luck with your new amp.

Back in the late eighties I bought a system for a small room that consisted of a Onkyo TX-906 receiver, Yamaha EQ-630 equalizer, Sony CDP-C910 CD changer, Yamaha KX930 tape deck and four Acoustic Research speakers. 20 years later all of this is still in use at my brother-in-law's home in Minneapolis. That is except for the tape deck and CD player which I still have. None of it has ever needed repair.

I'll be wiring my new HT room this weekend so that it will be ready to go once the 3808 lands. I ordered a long network cable from monoprice that will probably arrive the day after the receiver does.

Have fun setting your 3808 up.
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post #30 of 71
8/22/08 at 9:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

Now, I just remembered having heard of a large online vendor and a brick/mortar vendor that each claimed to be authorized, but weren't on the list. (I think one was actually Denon and the other Marantz, but it doesn't matter, the point is the same.) So, in each case, people contacted Denon (and Marantz), and they confirmed those vendors as actually being authorized. So, if a vendor isn't on the list, try e-mailing Denon, so one has it is writing.

WHen I was searching for dealers in my area, I noticed that the list also contained dealers that have been out of business for weeks or, in some cases, months so I am not sure how often the dealers list is updated.
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