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"Official" RX-V1900/RX-V3900 Thread - Page 12

post #331 of 5991
10/23/08 at 5:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

...But if Yamaha manage to keep it (Receiver Manager) hidden this time (or maybe it's not even ready?) it wouldn't be too hard to make a replacement just to save and restore settings (i.e. without the fancy GUI that allows real time control of everything).

I already have something that saves and restores the PEQ settings via RS-232, and could easily add speaker levels, distances, etc. (but I'd rather wait a bit to see if Receiver Manager turns up before doing the work).

This post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post14928866 and the previous one show how the PEQ editor currently looks.

Before long I wouldn't mind a volunteer willing to try it out on the 1900 or 3900 (just to make sure it uses the same RS-232 commands as previous models).

It would also be good to know if the Volume Control program works on the new models (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post14660156)
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post #332 of 5991
10/23/08 at 5:42pm
I've not had time or energy to screw around with the PS3 connection today. Sick as a dog.

What I don't understand is why it works for most with the connection, but not with me? Is the PS3 sending a 'handshake' to the receiver and then that same 'handshake' goes to the TV, is it receiver only, etc? It has always acted a bit goofy with the Westy LCD, but after firmware update 2.xx something I no longer had the video 'blink, blink, blink' issues.
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post #333 of 5991
10/23/08 at 8:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrostyMelon View Post

I've not had time or energy to screw around with the PS3 connection today. Sick as a dog.

What I don't understand is why it works for most with the connection, but not with me? Is the PS3 sending a 'handshake' to the receiver and then that same 'handshake' goes to the TV, is it receiver only, etc? It has always acted a bit goofy with the Westy LCD, but after firmware update 2.xx something I no longer had the video 'blink, blink, blink' issues.

Have you tried powering the PS3 completely off (via the switch in the back)?
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post #334 of 5991
10/23/08 at 8:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Before long I wouldn't mind a volunteer willing to try it out on the 1900 or 3900

I have one problem with the whole DIY hackery thing here: as far as I'm concerned, Yamaha advertises "Receiver Manager Software" as a feature of the receiver and because of this, if for no other reason, they owe it to purchasers to just get off their duffs and make it available for download like normal companies make their software available to their customers. We shouldn't have to beg and hack the interface.
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post #335 of 5991
10/23/08 at 9:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Also DVI doesn't carry any form of sound, just picture

You are abs wrong
Educate a little bit.
DVI-D and HDMI are the same in electrical part and carry the same TMDS signals.
All recent VGA DVI cards (ATI from 2XXX has own sound controller, Nvidia from 8XXX via SPDIF In) have possibility to transfer sound via DVI.

For moninfo reports you need ANY DVI card !!! EDID info transfer via I2C signal. I am able to read it via ancient 2004 year card for example.
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post #336 of 5991
10/23/08 at 10:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrostyMelon View Post

Well, I put the component on the PoS3, tried using HDMI for audio...had picture but no sound. Funny thing is that it read PCM, showed all speakers in display, etc...but not a peep of sound.

For those who have this with PS3...which model of PS3 (40g, 80g)?

Have you tried powering up your PS3 using the auto detect mode? Sometimes even when things are properly set up manually it acts goofy yet when you auto configure it while powering up it seems to make things work.
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post #337 of 5991
10/23/08 at 11:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikl1984 View Post

You are abs wrong
Educate a little bit.
DVI-D and HDMI are the same in electrical part and carry the same TMDS signals.
All recent VGA DVI cards (ATI from 2XXX has own sound controller, Nvidia from 8XXX via SPDIF In) have possibility to transfer sound via DVI.

Every source I know of confirms standard consumer electronics DVI connections do not carry sound:

CNET:
"The reason you're not getting any sound is because the DVI connection doesn't transfer audio, just video."

DVIHDMICABLES.COM:
"While DVI handles only uncompressed, real-time digital video, HDMI can handle both digital video as well as multi-channel audio."

HDMI.ORG :
"Q. Are there any DVI to HDMI cables/Converters out there?

A. HDMI is backward compatiable with DVI. You will not receive any sound by using DVI, but the picture quality should be excellent."

If there are now sound cards that have broken the standard in order to carry digital audio as well (5.1, but none of the newer higher bit rate or uncompressed surround sound formats like HDMI can) then they would require a custom made converter plug (dongle) to convert to HDMI, not one you could buy just anywhere like you suggest:
Quote:


You need PC with DVI + DVI-HDMI cable(or DVI-HDMI connector + HDMI cable).

The recent ATI HD 2600 card seems to be such an example, but I'd hardly think the majority of people who have DVI ports on their computers should expect them to carry sound, even if they found this odd ATI designed converter plug as an aftermarket purchase. [Which is why I don't think it is offered aftermarket by anyone except perhaps as a replacement part directly from AMD/ATI] It is proprietary to their DVI jacks and wont work with any other products.
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post #338 of 5991
10/24/08 at 3:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick W View Post

I have one problem with the whole DIY hackery thing here: as far as I'm concerned, Yamaha advertises "Receiver Manager Software" as a feature of the receiver and because of this, if for no other reason, they owe it to purchasers to just get off their duffs and make it available for download like normal companies make their software available to their customers. We shouldn't have to beg and hack the interface.

Has anyone tried using the "Web Control Center" via web browser? Does it control all set-up functions or is it just very basic? Would the receiver manager software be any different?
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post #339 of 5991
10/24/08 at 5:38am
I have used the RX-V3900 via the http server. It is "basic" in the sense that it does allow control over power and I/O including volume to all the zones and things like station selection for the tuners. It allows control over the iPod. But when I tested THAT just now, it isn't showing the play info and it isn't allowing access to the menus. (Despite in both cases having UI for these.) (Ooops--upon further review--it does IF you enable "Browse" mode with a radio button.)

What it doesn't allow is control over/visibility to ALL the settings (PEQ, setup options, stored system memory settings, etc). It doesn't that I've figured out allow station presetting or input assignments or renaming. The one thing like this it does do is allow renaming the Zones. It also allows loading the MAC filter table. It also does not seem to have any way to save/restore all of the settings. Receiver Manager for the RX-V3800 (the only one I have used) does ALL of these things.
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post #340 of 5991
10/24/08 at 5:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick W View Post

I have one problem with the whole DIY hackery thing here: as far as I'm concerned, Yamaha advertises "Receiver Manager Software" as a feature of the receiver and because of this, if for no other reason, they owe it to purchasers to just get off their duffs and make it available for download like normal companies make their software available to their customers. We shouldn't have to beg and hack the interface.

I definitely agree with that. The program should be available and also the RS-232 command protocol documentation for people wanting to do their own stuff. Also I have the HTR-6190 which is functionally identical to the RX-V1800 but they made sure that Receiver Manager for the 1800 wouldn't work with the 6190 (it does now!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miamiabc View Post

Has anyone tried using the "Web Control Center" via web browser? Does it control all set-up functions or is it just very basic? Would the receiver manager software be any different?

If you want to see what Receiver Manager looks like you can download the one for the 3800 (links in the 1800/3800 thread) and run it on your PC without a connection to the receiver. So anyone with a 3900 can compare it to the Web browser interface. I assume Receiver Manager for the 3900 will be very similar to the one for the 3800.
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post #341 of 5991
10/24/08 at 6:41am
Hey guys. Has anyone figured out how to adjust levels of different inputs? When I go from either the xbox or the TV to Ned Radio. My volume on Net Radio is so loud. I need to adjust the volume down almost 10 db. Also what is the short message that I see when switching inputs. It is only up for a short time. I think its "DiaAudio +4" then it goes away and I see my volume control. Thank you
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post #342 of 5991
10/24/08 at 7:22am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDave View Post

Hey guys. Has anyone figured out how to adjust levels of different inputs? When I go from either the xbox or the TV to Ned Radio. My volume on Net Radio is so loud. I need to adjust the volume down almost 10 db. Also what is the short message that I see when switching inputs. It is only up for a short time. I think its "DiaAudio +4" then it goes away and I see my volume control. Thank you

On my RX-V3900, there's an input volume trim. On the 2700, it's in the Input Select menu, grouped under each input.
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post #343 of 5991
10/24/08 at 8:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

On my RX-V3900, there's an input volume trim. On the 2700, it's in the Input Select menu, grouped under each input.

Thank you found it under page 85. Input volume trim.
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post #344 of 5991
10/24/08 at 8:16am
I noticed similar--as yet not completely characterized--major volume differences from input to input that I didn't have on the 3800 without ever touching volume trim. (Yes, it's in the same place on the RX-V3800. But I'm not sure every source has one.) I don't think the volume trims are anywhere near sufficient in range (+/-4db IIRC) to fix this issue based on my very limited effort looking into it so far.

I'm not sure where to go with this but am DELIGHTED to hear it may not be just me. If this issue really exists and can get better characterized and worked with Yamaha (probably worked and worked and worked and worked and …) maybe there can be a FW fix?
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post #345 of 5991
10/24/08 at 9:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Every source I know of confirms standard consumer electronics DVI connections do not carry sound:

CNET:
"The reason you're not getting any sound is because the DVI connection doesn't transfer audio, just video."

DVIHDMICABLES.COM:
"While DVI handles only uncompressed, real-time digital video, HDMI can handle both digital video as well as multi-channel audio."

HDMI.ORG :
"Q. Are there any DVI to HDMI cables/Converters out there?

A. HDMI is backward compatiable with DVI. You will not receive any sound by using DVI, but the picture quality should be excellent."

If there are now sound cards that have broken the standard in order to carry digital audio as well (5.1, but none of the newer higher bit rate or uncompressed surround sound formats like HDMI can) then they would require a custom made converter plug (dongle) to convert to HDMI, not one you could buy just anywhere like you suggest:


The recent ATI HD 2600 card seems to be such an example, but I'd hardly think the majority of people who have DVI ports on their computers should expect them to carry sound, even if they found this odd ATI designed converter plug as an aftermarket purchase. [Which is why I don't think it is offered aftermarket by anyone except perhaps as a replacement part directly from AMD/ATI] It is proprietary to their DVI jacks and wont work with any other products.

Your knowledge stay on the 2006 year level .
After that produced more than 50mln VGA DVI cards which are able transfer sound (2 and 8(ATI 4XXX only) channel LPCM, DD, DTS). All those cards support HDCP.
Also produced roughly the same q-ty IGP MB (Intel, AMD, Nvidia) with the same capabilities.
Are you not one from 100 mln?
You may visit http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forum...aysprune=&f=26 to know many new things.
Good luck !
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post #346 of 5991
10/24/08 at 11:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikl1984 View Post

Your knowledge stay on the 2006 year level .
After that produced more than 50mln VGA DVI cards which are able transfer sound (2 and 8(ATI 4XXX only) channel LPCM, DD, DTS). All those cards support HDCP.
Also produced roughly the same q-ty IGP MB (Intel, AMD, Nvidia) with the same capabilities.
Are you not one from 100 mln?

100 million computers and or sound cards out there provide 5.1 digital audio or better through their DVI ports? Please provide a link to back that quantity. Thanks.

I have HDMI out, but I rarely use it, since you asked.
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post #347 of 5991
10/24/08 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

100 million computers and or sound cards out there provide 5.1 digital audio or better through their DVI ports? Please provide a link to back that quantity. Thanks.

I am talking just about VGA + IGP
You may visit http://jonpeddie.com/about/press/index.shtml and calculate figures for last 2-3 years.
ATI(AMD) almost all VGA series 2XXX, 3XXX and 4XXX support sound via DVI from 2006. Almost all IGP support sound from 2007(690/780/790).
Intel IGP support sound via DVI from 2007 (G9X5, G3X, G4X)
Nvidia support from 2007 (8XXX, 9XXX). IGP from 2008 (8X00, 9X00).
After that evaluate DVI implementation. Let's say divide all figures by 4 (my lowest expert evaluation).
As whole desktop market AIB+IGP roughly 200mln per year.
In 2008 all solution support sound via DVI. With DVI implementation let's say 50 mln. Another 50mln for previous 2 years.
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post #348 of 5991
10/24/08 at 2:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikl1984 View Post

Your knowledge stay on the 2006 year level .
After that produced more than 50mln VGA DVI cards which are able transfer sound (2 and 8(ATI 4XXX only) channel LPCM, DD, DTS). All those cards support HDCP.
Also produced roughly the same q-ty IGP MB (Intel, AMD, Nvidia) with the same capabilities.
Are you not one from 100 mln?
You may visit http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forum...aysprune=&f=26 to know many new things.
Good luck !

DVI = No Audio

HDMI = DVI w/extra connects for audio

Some video cards *DO* have extra pins added to their DVI port to support audio output to a display device with an HDMI input, but they can only be used with a specialized DVI-HDMI adapter from the card manufacturer. And even then, most did not have their own audio controller until recently.
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post #349 of 5991
10/24/08 at 11:04pm
HDMI=DVI-D Single Link and has the same 19 Pins
Special connectors were introduce by ATI during launch this technology in 2006.
Now it's working with any connectors and cables on all solutions from Intel/AMD/Nvidia

But I stop education in this thread due to offtopic.
Please stay with your opinion
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post #350 of 5991
10/25/08 at 4:15am
Can you assign different settings for each HDMI input so that the receiver remembers them?
For example HDMI 1 = pass through, HDMI 2 = PReP + upscale, HDMI 3 = pass through.
I still dont quite understand how all this HDMI stuff and video processing is suppose to work.
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post #351 of 5991
10/25/08 at 5:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShredFIN View Post

Can you assign different settings for each HDMI input so that the receiver remembers them? For example HDMI 1 = pass through, HDMI 2 = PReP + upscale, HDMI 3 = pass through. . . .

Not on the 3900.
The Z7 allows you to store six video configurations in 'presets', and then associate one of the presets with each input.
The video settings on the 3900 are global; the closest you could come would be to use two or more of the four system memories to store ALL the receiver's settings and then one button push on the remote would switch configurations . . .
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post #352 of 5991
10/25/08 at 5:55am
Thread Starter 
Right; and that, in my opinion, is the selling point of the Z9. Next year's "3900" may very well contain this same functionality, but there's no way to know that, of course.

It's a bit dissapointing to think that the 3900 is completely capable of this same feature - it's obvious that it's just software.
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post #353 of 5991
10/25/08 at 6:13am
Thread Starter 
With regards to the Z7's optical output, It seems to me that you would almost need to use a receiver for zone 4 to get the full functionality. It's not as if amplifiers regularly have optical inputs.

Something else that occurs to me is that the manual does not really explain what is output to the zone 4 optical jack. Is optical a downmix of multi-channel sources? Or is it always just the L/R channels of whatever source with no downmixing? (which seems like the most likely answer.)
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post #354 of 5991
10/25/08 at 6:27am
Thread Starter 
Have any 3900 tried out Rhapsody? Looks like there's a free option even, where you could play 25 songs. I think that would let you try out Rhapsody for free.

They claim they have 4 million songs. But it's not clear to me to easy it is to use the search feature.
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post #355 of 5991
10/25/08 at 6:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

Right; and that, in my opinion, is the selling point of the Z9. Next year's "3900" may very well contain this same functionality, but there's no way to know that, of course. It's a bit dissapointing to think that the 3900 is completely capable of this same feature - it's obvious that it's just software.

Right on both points IMO. The Z7 is next year's 3900.
And Yamaha is intentionally disabling software features to boost revenue.
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post #356 of 5991
10/25/08 at 8:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

Have any 3900 tried out Rhapsody? Looks like there's a free option even, where you could play 25 songs. I think that would let you try out Rhapsody for free.

They claim they have 4 million songs. But it's not clear to me to easy it is to use the search feature.

If you are a Comcast Internet customer, you get Rhapsody for free. You can use that account for the 3900. The search feature is a bit annoying. I prefer to set up my own channels of artists I like and Rhapsody will play music from those artists as well as other artist with a similar sound. I like Rhapsody, but I wouldn't pay $12.99 a month for it.
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post #357 of 5991
10/27/08 at 3:10am
Maybe i've missed the post, but had anyone checked RGB clipping issue with 3900?
I've read two positive replies about 1900 (it passes BTB), but found nothing about 3900.
I'm intended to purchase 3900, so if someone can do the test - it will be much appreciated
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post #358 of 5991
10/27/08 at 4:31am
http://www.4shared.com/dir/9285447/3...3/sharing.html

This should work.
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post #359 of 5991
10/27/08 at 6:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddielives View Post

http://www.4shared.com/dir/9285447/3...3/sharing.html

This should work.

Yes, the link works and the program seems to (except I don't have a 1900). Thanks!

The Equalizer page confirms that you can change Auto PEQ type at any time to Front, Flat or Natural (on the 1800 you can only do this when you're about to run YPAO). So the 1900 must be storing 3 complete sets of PEQ parameters. I'll modify my PEQedit program to let you select which of the 3 sets you want to overwrite with custom values (right now it always overwrites Natural on the 1800 and 1900 -- at least it's supposed to, it hasn't been tested on a 1900 yet).

BTW, even people who don't want to set up an RS-232 connection might want to see what the PEQ filters look like as the gain and Q factor are varied. If you are ever going to tweak the PEQ settings manually, it helps if you have a clear idea what effect the various settings have. You can download PEQedit here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post14947997, and you can run it even without a connection to your receiver.
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post #360 of 5991
10/27/08 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddielives View Post

http://www.4shared.com/dir/9285447/3...3/sharing.html

direct link to Yamaha
Enjoy
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