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"Official" RX-V1900/RX-V3900 Thread - Page 181

post #5401 of 6030
Email from Yamaha tech support and they confirmed Sirius is working the issue with their internet player. Wish there was an easy way to obtain this information.
post #5402 of 6030
Hello all,

I just got my new 1900 in yesterday and will be hooking it up today. I am coming from a RX-V1500 which in all respects was a nice receiver but lacked the latest lossless audio decoding and HDMI capabilities along with some other features. One thing I will miss though is the A/B speaker switch which allowed me to bi-amp my front Mirage bi-polars and still keep open terminals for Rear Surround speakers.

The 3900 would have real sweet but for the latest NewEgg deal I could not pass the 1900 up. Now all I need is a 1080P TV vs the 1080i unit I have now.
post #5403 of 6030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles944 View Post

One thing I will miss though is the A/B speaker switch which allowed me to bi-amp my front Mirage bi-polars and still keep open terminals for Rear Surround speakers.

AFAIK A/B speakers are always connected to the same amplifier (channel), so this would be bi-wiring not bi-amping. You can still do that with a 1900 without sacrificing rear surround speakers.
post #5404 of 6030
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spturtle View Post

AFAIK A/B speakers are always connected to the same amplifier (channel), so this would be bi-wiring not bi-amping. You can still do that with a 1900 without sacrificing rear surround speakers.

Right. And you can buy an external AB switch if you want, that would do the same thing, but there's no point to it I can see.
post #5405 of 6030
Quote:
Originally Posted by spturtle View Post

AFAIK A/B speakers are always connected to the same amplifier (channel), so this would be bi-wiring not bi-amping. You can still do that with a 1900 without sacrificing rear surround speakers.

Yes you are right, I mis-spoke, or shall I say typed. I am planning on using bare twisted wire at the seat of the terminal for "highs or tweeters" and then one tightened down, plug the "lows or woofers" via banana plug into the same terminal.

This is the only way I could see to bi-wire the fronts.

Thanks all,
post #5406 of 6030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles944 View Post

Yes you are right, I mis-spoke, or shall I say typed. I am planning on using bare twisted wire at the seat of the terminal for "highs or tweeters" and then one tightened down, plug the "lows or woofers" via banana plug into the same terminal.

This is the only way I could see to bi-wire the fronts.

Thanks all,

If you're doing that, why not strap the speaker terminals together instead and save the extra run of wire? You're not gaining anything by running two wires from the same post at the amp.
post #5407 of 6030
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoiseGoth View Post

If you're doing that, why not strap the speaker terminals together instead and save the extra run of wire? You're not gaining anything by running two wires from the same post at the amp.

Well I had already had the speaker cables run anyway due to the previous bi-wire so it was actually more laborious to remove the cables. I cannot recall what manual I had read it in, either a Pioneer manual or for the RX-V1800 but the bi-wire method I used by using two set of cable on the same terminal was the prescribed method.

On another topic, for those that have speakers with less than a 6.5" woofer do you have them set as "small"? During the YPAO calibration process depending on how I had my Mirage 595i surround speakers orientated they were either "large" or "small". They have 5.5" woofers. My mains Mirage 1090i speakers have 6.5" woofers always came out as "large".

Thanks for all the input.
post #5408 of 6030
Thread Starter 
I feel Yamaha is overly fond of choosing large. I manually set all my speaker to small, and feel it sounds better that way.

You can try manually changing the setting yourself, or trying out an audio analyzer program to see which method looks to have the flattest response.

Woofer size is the not the only indicator of bass extension, so I would not go off woofer sizer. Cabinet size, porting, and other factors could all affect bass extension.

IMO, large speakers really should go down to the same lower bound as your sub, or they're small.
post #5409 of 6030
Regarding YPAO with the RX-V1900...

I have a 7.1 setup. I already have a separate parametric equalizer (Behringer Feedback Destroyer Pro) for my subwoofer that has been tuned using Room EQ Wizard.

Therefore I don't want the YPAO system to operate on the subwoofer channel. Is it possible to run the YPAO routine for the 7 speakers only, without making any adjustments to the subwoofer channel?
post #5410 of 6030
Quote:
IMO, large speakers really should go down to the same lower bound as your sub, or they're small.
The frequency specs on the Mirage S8 sub I have is 27Hz-120Hz.
The frequency range on the main Mirage 1090i front speakers are 32Hz-28KHz.
The main front speakers have a useable bass response down to 28Hz though, so I would presume they should be set to "large".
post #5411 of 6030
Just watched TOP GUN DTS 6.1 version and it was fantastic on the 1900. I had noticed more detail than before such as a distant typewriter clattering away in the background during some of the in office scenes out of the FL speaker.

I lend some additional realism to the re-orientation of the surround bipolar speakers. I had them previously slightly staggered from R to L due to room orientation and furniture and positioned parallel with the Main Front R&L speakers (My RX-V1500 manual gave this parallel setup in the manual for dipole and bipolar speakers). I have since put the surrounds in line with each other and turned them into the listening positions thus perpendicular to the Mains. This also helps their "breathing room" for the rear firing drivers and reflectivity off the walls behind them

Really enjoyed some orchestral X-mas music on the "Church in Freisburg" as well!

Just wanted to clarify that Presence speakers will not operate at the same time as Back Surround speakers will? It is either one or the other?

Thank you all!
post #5412 of 6030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles944 View Post
Just watched TOP GUN DTS 6.1 version and it was fantastic on the 1900. I had noticed more detail than before such as a distant typewriter clattering away in the background during some of the in office scenes out of the FL speaker.
Yes, I really like using TOP GUN DTS 6.1 as a 'demo' disk with my Yamaha AVRs too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles944 View Post
Just wanted to clarify that Presence speakers will not operate at the same time as Back Surround speakers will? It is either one or the other?
Yes, that's true on all current Yamaha models except the RX-Z11, RX-A2000, and RX-A3000.
post #5413 of 6030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles944 View Post
The frequency specs on the Mirage S8 sub I have is 27Hz-120Hz.
The frequency range on the main Mirage 1090i front speakers are 32Hz-28KHz.
The main front speakers have a useable bass response down to 28Hz though, so I would presume they should be set to "large".
If you have a sub, then your speakers are small. At least that's the advice given here. Yamaha doesn't use Audyssey, but the article still applies. It lists some reasons why you should set all speakers to small, and there are others. For example, moving your sub around to find the optimal location is a great way to improve your bass, but you can't exactly move your main speakers to arbitrary locations.
post #5414 of 6030
Hey thanks Chris for the link! And thank you again for all your help on my 1800 firmware troubleshoot!!

I went in and set the main's to "small". Have yet to watch a demo disc to see the results. Will post back when I do.

Soundchex,
Would have loved to land a RX-A2000 or RX-A3000, maybe in a few years. The 1900 fulfills my needs. Before another new receiver I need to get a 1080P TV. Mine is still a 1080i HDTV 47". Not shabby, but not great either (especially with shadow detail and blacks (Gamma)).
post #5415 of 6030
To any of the more Techie people out there, what are the chances of adapting the Z7 Firmware for use by the 3900. Useful for me would be the Party mode.

Is it possible to do, obviously without turning the receiver into a brick.
post #5416 of 6030
Quote:
Originally Posted by markymiles View Post

To any of the more Techie people out there, what are the chances of adapting the Z7 Firmware for use by the 3900. Useful for me would be the Party mode.

Is it possible to do, obviously without turning the receiver into a brick.

You would have to either decode the firmware update file, or gain access through a built-in serial port. I haven't seen any indication that someone managed to do this for a network receiver.

Loading the Z7 firmware directly may be possible (but I don't consider it likely) by patching the first few bytes. If this works, you have a good chance at bricking the receiver, however.
post #5417 of 6030
Not worth the risk then.

Just thought the innards are extremely similar betwen the two so it's only Yamaha putting restrictions in the firmware.
post #5418 of 6030
I'm not sure if the Z7 has extra hardware for party mode, but you're in for some serious pain if you try to patch the firmware. The files are encrypted and have checksums, so even a small patch implies a lot of work.

Maybe you can rig up something like party mode with some kind of external switch? (no idea what kind, but maybe someone else does).
post #5419 of 6030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles944 View Post

Hello all,

The 3900 would have real sweet but for the latest NewEgg deal I could not pass the 1900 up. Now all I need is a 1080P TV vs the 1080i unit I have now.

I'm right there with you, Charles... mine will be here tomorrow.

Mark
post #5420 of 6030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles944 View Post


I lend some additional realism to the re-orientation of the surround bipolar speakers. I had them previously slightly staggered from R to L due to room orientation and furniture and positioned parallel with the Main Front R&L speakers (My RX-V1500 manual gave this parallel setup in the manual for dipole and bipolar speakers). I have since put the surrounds in line with each other and turned them into the listening positions thus perpendicular to the Mains. This also helps their "breathing room" for the rear firing drivers and reflectivity off the walls behind them

I have a set of Polk bipole/dipole surround speakers (selectable) and I wondered about this as well. My previous setup had them on the left/right sides of the couch along the wall, parallel as yours were. Unfortunately, only one speaker has a wall behind it, so it doesn't sound the same (or have the same perceived SPL output) on each side.

I'll move them around a little bit this weekend and see if I have similar results. Thanks for the idea.
post #5421 of 6030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasthotrod View Post

I have a set of Polk bipole/dipole surround speakers (selectable) and I wondered about this as well. My previous setup had them on the left/right sides of the couch along the wall, parallel as yours were. Unfortunately, only one speaker has a wall behind it, so it doesn't sound the same (or have the same perceived SPL output) on each side.

I'll move them around a little bit this weekend and see if I have similar results. Thanks for the idea.

Hey no prob, Please let us know how it works out for you. Right now, both my R&L Surround speakers came in at +3.5dB according to the YPAO setup. I measured the distance from the listening positions (I have 3 on the 1900) outward to the speakers and they came out with in a couple inches. Then I tried to keep the reflective walls (behind the towers or those drivers that face away from the listening position) about the same between the R&L's.

Before with the bipolars facing parallel with the mains and my L Surround not having any wall behind it to reflect off of the dB setting were at least 2+ off and of distances were not equidistant.

Now, the imaging and sound has drastically improved. I would have liked to tried it with my old RX-V1500 to get a real apples to apples comparison. The 1900 improved the overall sound experience especially with the lossless audio decoding and multi-listening position YPAO settings.
post #5422 of 6030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasthotrod View Post

I'm right there with you, Charles... mine will be here tomorrow.

Mark

Hey Mark, congrats as well!

Are you going to run 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1? You planning on presence speakers? I have never tried the presence speakers just a back surround speaker. I was curious on the level of value added sound.
post #5423 of 6030
I hate to do this, but to get the point across clearly, it's my only choice.


In the shop
Pair of dbx Soundfield V's in the shop.
1-Klipsch-RT10D.
1-Sam 36"

In the Office
A new pair of of RS62's,
which are the only speakers for the moment in the office.
No Sub, Pending..
1-Sam 52"
MacPro's sound system, separate on Bose w/sub.
Which I may make a simple lead heading to Yamaha to use the Bose.

Space between Office & Shop.
RXV3900 on glass chrome tower, eye height.
Niles IR system, from Shop or Office, works great.
Other components typical/
Sharp Blue-ray, Apple TV, Yamaha's iPod Dock, JVC DVD video recorder.


The system works great pounding the shop in 2 channel stereo with sub in the shop. Keep in mind all speakers are no less than 5 feet off the floor.

I threw together a quick sample to see the set-up.
It was for a another purpose, but will do for now. I didn't have office speakers yet.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Philscbx?feature=mhum

With the new addition of the Klipsch-RS62's in the office, a whole new dilemma has got me thinking I may need to bi-wire both the shop & office speakers to the Front L/R Ports.

If it has to be, then one looses the options to dial in the outputs so office is not drastically louder than the shop, or vise verses.

The Zone 2/3 option, just now tried, is not what I thought it was, while assuming it was a speaker A/B type deal.

Even though you can hear the speakers if set on Zone 2, you have no control over it's volume regardless all the way up or down, the output stays the same.

It seems to run the output like a Pre-Amp signal.
If this is true, then one could use the ports to a second amp, and then do what ever.

if you shut down the Amp, Zone 2 continues until you hit zone 2 button to shut it down completely on this section of Amp.
One can fire up the Amp as well with Zone Button.
Features never explored before, Crazy.

Transplant new speaker shipment to the Shop/
All day affair making cables, routing them through walls,
put up shelf over Sam52 to hold 56lbs a pair of RS62's.

Speaker Cable build/
soldered/shrink-tubed 1280 view.

I didn't realize the ends of solder type banana plugs spin to relieve possible wire twist. Pretty slick.




The Main Issue/
Cannot get the office pair to fire up on any channel ports unless Yamaha is switched to 7 channel. Not Cool for this application.

I probably don't have to describe how crap sounding this effect has for a second room that has a pair plugged into anything other than Front.

7 channel conversion/
The Front's sound, more like 100 watts, going to the shop, while the RS62's in the office in surround mode sounds like 20 watts, except with added mixed in effects to where voice is cut and only portions of music is sent.

So it appears there is no option to set selected speaker outputs to the same output type as Fronts, In 2 Channel Stereo.
Bummer. That's a lot of wasted ports.
Or somehow the choice was missed, but I doubt it. I spent 4 hours switching ports & switching settings with no results.

Now the next question/
with the speakers listed, is this going to add stress to the Amp if bi-wired with both sets of speakers (Shop & Office) to the Front L/R Ports?

Or,
Possible realization, I may have purchased the wrong Amp for this application.
Feel Free to suggest the right Amp for this set up.
It was a little easier in 1975 with Marantz.

Speaker Port hot swap question/
Can speaker connects be hot swapped safely on this guy, or shut the Amp Off first, as I did.
I'm sure the ole Marantz didn't care.
post #5424 of 6030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles944 View Post

Hey no prob, Please let us know how it works out for you. Right now, both my R&L Surround speakers came in at +3.5dB according to the YPAO setup. I measured the distance from the listening positions (I have 3 on the 1900) outward to the speakers and they came out with in a couple inches. Then I tried to keep the reflective walls (behind the towers or those drivers that face away from the listening position) about the same between the R&L's.

Before with the bipolars facing parallel with the mains and my L Surround not having any wall behind it to reflect off of the dB setting were at least 2+ off and of distances were not equidistant.

Now, the imaging and sound has drastically improved. I would have liked to tried it with my old RX-V1500 to get a real apples to apples comparison. The 1900 improved the overall sound experience especially with the lossless audio decoding and multi-listening position YPAO settings.

Okay... I'll see what changes result from moving the speakers around.

I'm curious about the part where you said that your surround speakers came in at +3.5 dB. I have done the auto setup from a single position, and all I can see after that is the individual 'sliders' for each channel volume level. I can't see an actual numeric readout anywhere. Am I not looking in the right place?

I have to say that I am already impressed with the sound quality... YPAO was interesting to listen to, and the change was very noticeable. Much better sound than my old receiver for sure. I can't wait to get my power amp setup for the mains and get it dialed in... it should be sweet.

Mark
post #5425 of 6030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles944 View Post

Hey Mark, congrats as well!

Are you going to run 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1? You planning on presence speakers? I have never tried the presence speakers just a back surround speaker. I was curious on the level of value added sound.

As of right now, I am running 5.1 in the living room. Front mains are Carver Amazing Loudspeakers. Center is an Infinity MTM design. Rears are Polk Audio Bipole/dipole.



(Old picture... before I got the RX-V1900.)

I don't plan on using presence speakers for now... it would be hard to match the 60" ribbons (two 30" ribbons on each side) and I get great imaging as it is... but I might get froggy and give it a shot just to see how it sounds.

I have my patio speakers on SP1/Zone 2 for now... took me a while to figure out that I had to turn on the internal amp and all of that. Yea, I know... RTFM.

I don't have much room behind the couch unless I keep the speaker height below the top of the couch... but then the speakers would be right next to my head. I don't know if that would work out or not... maybe I need to experiment with some ceiling speakers? I'd like to see (hear) what difference a 7.1 setup would make.

I'll let you know what I find out...

Mark
post #5426 of 6030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philscbx View Post

...
With the new addition of the Klipsch-RS62's in the office, a whole new dilemma has got me thinking I may need to bi-wire both the shop & office speakers to the Front L/R Ports. If it has to be, then one looses the options to dial in the outputs so office is not drastically louder than the shop, or vise verses.

The Zone 2/3 option, just now tried, is not what I thought it was, while assuming it was a speaker A/B type deal. Even though you can hear the speakers if set on Zone 2, you have no control over it's volume regardless all the way up or down, the output stays the same.

Wiring two sets of speakers in parallel could cause problems, so you'd be better off getting zone 2 to work.

The 3900 does give you separate control over the zone 2 volume, but you have to select zone 2 on the remote before pressing volume up/down. The front panel display will tell you whether you're changing the main volume or zone 2 volume. The zone stuff is complicated and not very well documented, but try reading that section of the manual again and the info is in there somewhere.
post #5427 of 6030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasthotrod View Post

Okay... I'll see what changes result from moving the speakers around.

I'm curious about the part where you said that your surround speakers came in at +3.5 dB. I have done the auto setup from a single position, and all I can see after that is the individual 'sliders' for each channel volume level. I can't see an actual numeric readout anywhere. Am I not looking in the right place?

I have to say that I am already impressed with the sound quality... YPAO was interesting to listen to, and the change was very noticeable. Much better sound than my old receiver for sure. I can't wait to get my power amp setup for the mains and get it dialed in... it should be sweet.

Mark

Hi Mark,
Once the YPAO auto setup has been completed while you are still in the Menu screen seen on the On-screen view (your TV) you can scroll through the results (page 31 #4 in manual)

OR once you are out of the menu mode and just sitting there watching TV if you hit the LEVEL+ button on the remote (bottom left side) it will bring each of the connected speakers dB level on the main screen of the receiver. And by using the main arrow pad in the middle of the remote you can UP or DWN arrow to select the speaker and L or R to decrease/increase the level in dB units from -10.0 -- +10.0. (page 46 in manual)

I take it you are going to run an external power amp for the Carver's (very sweet speaker I must say, in both sound and aesthetics)?
What is there recommended amp rating and how efficient are they?

The YPAO sounds are quite different, pink noise I think it is called...always gets mu dogs attention...she just stares at the speaker with her head cocked and ears at attention.
post #5428 of 6030
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Wiring two sets of speakers in parallel could cause problems, so you'd be better off getting zone 2 to work.

The 3900 does give you separate control over the zone 2 volume, but you have to select zone 2 on the remote before pressing volume up/down. The front panel display will tell you whether you're changing the main volume or zone 2 volume. The zone stuff is complicated and not very well documented, but try reading that section of the manual again and the info is in there somewhere.

I have the 1900 but I would imagine that the steps are the same.

Page 85 in my manual says that you need to go into the;

Menu --> Manual Setup --> Option Menu --> Zone Set.

Select "Zone 2" and tell it which amp you want it to use. (SP1, SP2, Both, or external.) Mine is setup as Zone 2 = SP1.

Now set the "Volume" to VARiable. If this is set to FIX, then the output is fixed, more like a line level output.

Setup the Max Volume and Initial Volume where you prefer. (I have mine set at +16.5 dB and -40.0 dB)

Now, I'm not sure if you have your configuration setup for 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 so I can't say if that is going to cause you issues or not. Mine is setup as a 5.1 setup, so I am not using 'presence' speakers or 'rear back surround' so maybe that is an issue for you?

Anyway, to adjust the input of the Zone 2 or 3 inputs, do the following:

Open the front door and press the zone you want to control. (Say Zone 2 for this example.) You should hear the amp 'click' while it turns on the zone. Now press the ZONE CONTROLS button. Zone 2 should start blinking in RED, telling you that you are now controlling the zone. Now adjust the input (DVD, Tuner, etc...) and volume as you want. You should see the input change when you rotate the INPUT knob, and the volume level change as you adjust the main volume knob.

To do the same using the remote:

Press the "Zone" button and select the Zone you wish to control. Press the POWER button to turn it on. As long as the remote is selected to the Zone, the main volume and input buttons will control the Zone. To switch back to the mains, press the Zone button until the display shows MAIN. To turn the Zone off, press ZONE until the zone is shown on the remote, then press the STANDBY button.

Hope this helps.

Mark
post #5429 of 6030
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

The 3900 does give you separate control over the zone 2 volume,

try reading that section of the manual again and the info is in there somewhere.

Thanks, I just found the manual, I'll give it a try.
post #5430 of 6030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasthotrod View Post

Quote:


YES


Quote:


Menu --> Manual Setup --> Option Menu --> Zone Set.
Select "Zone 2" and tell it which amp you want it to use. (SP1, SP2, Both, or external.) Mine is setup as Zone 2 = SP1.

I was there, and making choices was the hard part.
Then go look at rear panel to try to make sense of it, I let it be as it was before I got too deep.
A pop-up cloud was needed to help steer.
Quote:


Now, I'm not sure if you have your configuration setup for 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1

Just simple 2 Channel Stereo being this is 2 separate rooms in the shop vs one theater room.
Quote:


to adjust the input of the Zone 2 or 3 inputs, do the following:
Open the front door and press the zone you want to control.

I will copy/print to have at the tower.
It gives me major hope setting this guy up.

During conference call to Ultimate Electronics yesterday, quite surprised
the tech is not familiar with this upper end gear
You spend 5k, you'd think help would be hand & foot, if not to your door freely vs $100 an hour.
If it was my shop, I'd be their if eating again in the future was a concern.

Quote:


Hope this helps.
Mark

By All Means, a Huge Help, and a Major Thank You Mark.
I have manual in hand, and will update the process later.
When it's flawless, an instructional video could follow.
Cheers
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