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If your serious about video processing you owe it to ck out Teranex. Pics added. - Page 3

post #61 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastl View Post

You remember Yves famous last words .... something to the effect that I've spent my whole career developing solutions to the de-interlacing problem and have finally concluded that none of them work!

And guess what, he has since been associated with another French company trying to tackle de-interlacing and scaling.
post #62 of 95
Good for Yves! Some people get bored with retirement and have to get an iron back in the fire. BTW, I finally got around to printing out the Let It Wave paper, "Super Resolution Bandlet Upconversion for HDTV". Looks interesting. Probably will take a little while to fully digest.
post #63 of 95
Just like those $15K Faroudja's when $15K was like $50K now. Seriously, I think you are right on this one. I just can't afford $50K. My $4K Lumagen will be my long term processor. I have to come up to your place sometime and see this thing in action.
post #64 of 95
The reason those 15k units were that price is because the ikegami scaler at that time was 13,500. Yves had 3/2 pulldown so he priced it a bit higher.
post #65 of 95
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I have to come up to your place sometime and see this thing in action.

Mark if ever in the area you are always welcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

The reason those 15k units were that price is because the ikegami scaler at that time was 13,500. Yves had 3/2 pulldown so he priced it a bit higher.

Remember this well, brings back memories. Did I just give my age away I was never impressed with the ikegami. Thought it was over priced. The Faroudja was better in terms of performance and features for its day.
post #66 of 95
The unit was all white you can see it 3 units below the monitors here:


I actually thought the sharpness enhancement on the IKe was a bit better.
post #67 of 95
Alan,
I'm surprised you're considering Teranex again.
I remember you, from years ago, mention that Teranex was the biggest mistake you've made in your HT purchase history as you've spent $30k (?) on something that did the same job as a modern projector's de-interlacing chip.

Am I wrong on that?
Man, for $50k, just buy the HT5000 and be happy. Just like Art!
post #68 of 95
We are in a golden age of projectors, technology, sources. Art expects to get a new projector within a year. Who knows what we will see at the high end at CEDIA this year. And then there is commercial cinema stuff too for the big boys. Scalers will be needed for the 4K stuff. I think Alan is getting ready for the future.
post #69 of 95
Thread Starter 
Andrikos you are correct. All I remembered was how well it performed with SD and as a technology leader the wait for them to jump in the HD band wagon was a long one. It seamed consumer VPs were passing them by. The wait is over, its finally here & I would never keep anything in this price range if I were not impressed with its performance.
post #70 of 95
Is it motion compensative or like the consumer models for us peons, motion adaptive?
post #71 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

Andrikos you are correct. All I remembered was how well it performed with SD and as a technology leader the wait for them to jump in the HD band wagon was a long one. It seamed consumer VPs were passing them by. The wait is over, its finally here & I would never keep anything in this price range if I were not impressed with its performance.

Alan,

Can you tell us specifically what is impressive about the Teranex in regards to HD video processing. I am specifically referring to sources from Bluray or HD-DVDs. SD material does not have good enough video quality in the first place so I am not interested in what it can do here. Thanks.
post #72 of 95
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by euryd View Post

Alan,

Can you tell us specifically what is impressive about the Teranex in regards to HD video processing. I am specifically referring to sources from Bluray or HD-DVDs. SD material does not have good enough video quality in the first place so I am not interested in what it can do here. Thanks.

These processors offer filters not yet seen on consumer VPs. Consumer VPs have a typical sharpness filter which do nothing more then peak all frequency's & depending how its used can make a good source look bad and a bad source look worse. For instance most consumer detail enhance or sharpness filters do not go into the negative they only go in one direction...up If your watching an overly sharp transfer you may want to soften it but have no option for doing so. The Tera has a set of notch filters, low pass and peaking filters some of which are frequency selectable allowing you to target the trouble area. You can easily tame an overly edgy transfer while extracting additional detail even on the best transfers while maintaining a natural not processed looking image. You can knock down that digital glare using the aperture filter. You may find the above subjective but for myself titles with excessive edge enhancement/ ringing is an annoyance that reminds me Im watching an electronic media and not film.
The Teranex gives you the tools and flexibility to address this. The NR features are also on another level. The processor also has full color CMS. These are very powerful PCs working in real time and they are noisy.
post #73 of 95
WOW fitteee grand!

Curious does it have an "in - out" button or in other words this is the picture before and this the picture after?
post #74 of 95
Thread Starter 
NR yes because all NR filters are in one window pain so you can kick in several filters at once while in split screen mode. All the other filters show up in individual windows, no split screen but make your adjustment and toggle their on/off button which visually accomplishes the same thing.
post #75 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

These processors offer filters not yet seen on consumer VPs. Consumer VPs have a typical sharpness filter which do nothing more then peak all frequency's & depending how its used can make a good source look bad and a bad source look worse. For instance most consumer detail enhance or sharpness filters do not go into the negative they only go in one direction...up If your watching an overly sharp transfer you may want to soften it but have no option for doing so. The Tera has a set of notch filters, low pass and peaking filters some of which are frequency selectable allowing you to target the trouble area. You can easily tame an overly edgy transfer while extracting additional detail even on the best transfers while maintaining a natural not processed looking image. You can knock down that digital glare using the aperture filter. You may find the above subjective but for myself titles with excessive edge enhancement/ ringing is an annoyance that reminds me Im watching an electronic media and not film.
The Teranex gives you the tools and flexibility to address this. The NR features are also on another level. The processor also has full color CMS. These are very powerful PCs working in real time and they are noisy.


Alan,

I know they are noisy, I have seen them at a friend's place. They seem more targeted as professional equipment for use in a broadcast studio.

It seems to me that all the filtering modes are nice but aren't you in a way modifying the material from the original intent of the master? Even if you were willing to do this, and you had access to the unencrypted video material, you can do even better in non real time by re-mastering the video material and burning a new Bluray disc. This software process would take multiple passes and much more time but would produce the best results. You already have access to unencrypted video because for the Teranex to work, you need HD-SDI which is not encrypted.

You can also do better noise reduction filters in software because you can try many different algorithms and do it selectively for different portions of the video material.

I consider CMS to be useful but you can already get this with a Lumagen Radiance for much less.

It seems that the Teranex offers features useful to a broadcast studio to enable them to on-the-fly, in real time tweak average to poor video material. I am not sure the Teranex buys you anything if the video material were already good such as that which is found in Bluray and HD-DVDs.
post #76 of 95
Thread Starter 
euryd

Yes indeed the HT market was not the original intent.
Regarding modifying the content, the digital master is passed in raw form as the director intended it to be seen to the authoring studio some of whom then pump up the colors, contrast, sharpness and noise reduction removing detail thinking this is what the consumer wants to see on their TV sets.
The Teranex, S&W offer additional flexibility beyond consumer product to restore or further enhance the image to your liking.
These processors do indeed work in the software domain. They are super computers.
Seeing a side by side image processed by your choice of vp to the Tera the difference is easy to see. The larger the display the more these are appreciated. I can only hope over time some of this technology and additional flexibility will find its way into consumer products.
post #77 of 95
I have never seen the Teranex but as I read Alan's description of what it can do I am reminded of the option (in the analog LP world) of adjusting VTA on every album. While there are certainly improvements to be made by doing so, it drove me crazy so I picked one that worked and leave it there.

Alan: When you put in a DVD that needs the improvements that the Teranex can address, how long does it take to dial it all in so you get the results you desire?
post #78 of 95
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post


Alan: When you put in a DVD that needs the improvements that the Teranex can address, how long does it take to dial it all in so you get the results you desire?

Once you become accustomed to the platforms and features it is no different then turning up the volume on your stereo. It does not take long to learn what features associate with any given artifact.
post #79 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

euryd

Yes indeed the HT market was not the original intent.
Regarding modifying the content, the digital master is passed in raw form as the director intended it to be seen to the authoring studio some of whom then pump up the colors, contrast, sharpness and noise reduction removing detail thinking this is what the consumer wants to see on their TV sets.
The Teranex, S&W offer additional flexibility beyond consumer product to restore or further enhance the image to your liking.
These processors do indeed work in the software domain. They are super computers.
Seeing a side by side image processed by your choice of vp to the Tera the difference is easy to see. The larger the display the more these are appreciated. I can only hope over time some of this technology and additional flexibility will find its way into consumer products.

I agree that mastering is done with the original raw uncompressed video material. But you have to compare apples with apples. Your Teranex only has the Bluray compressed material to work with anyway. So I still think that a multipass software approach on this same Bluray material would perform better than the Teranex. The Teranex may be have a lot of cpu cycles but it cannot beat a non real time cpu done with multiple passes.

Also mastering is many times performed with human intervention. This person might decide to edge enhance only softer scenes in the movie. If you do not like this, you can dial it out with the Teranex (or other VP) but you will soften the rest of the movie needlessly. Unless the Teranex can do filtering for selective scenes only. To do this, you will need frame by frame step thru to pick the proper scenes to filter. I think this is better done with software.
post #80 of 95
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by euryd View Post

To do this, you will need frame by frame step thru to pick the proper scenes to filter. I think this is better done with software.

I see what you are saying. Is there such a beast?

In reality if the content were delivered to us left alone without human intervention there would be no need for a VP in the chain. I hope that day is not to far off.
post #81 of 95
euryd

Are you trying to sell him a DaVinci 2k or are you just philosophizing? Most end users don't have the finances to buy that kind of equipment nor do they have the time to sit around color grading purchased material.
post #82 of 95
Actually, now that many of the big boys are dumping their FP CRTs, the time they used to spend futching, converging, yada yada could be put to use color grading, with gobs of time left over. Considering the number of plus $60K projectors sold by AVS and others, I think it fair to say for the REALLY BIG Boys, $50K is a consumer model or a very cheap professional model. I bet Alan's thread results in several consumer AVSers buying the machine. Pocket change to Alan, lost money beneath the sofa cushions to the BIG BOYS. Alas, it will remain the lowly Lumagen Radiance for me.
post #83 of 95
Thread Starter 
Actually not pocket change at all. Some people choose to have a BMW in the driveway where video is my passion so I have a Teranex in the rack
post #84 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastl View Post

euryd

Are you trying to sell him a DaVinci 2k or are you just philosophizing? Most end users don't have the finances to buy that kind of equipment nor do they have the time to sit around color grading purchased material.

Unfortunately, just philosophizing . I am an end user and am not involved in selling equipment.
post #85 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

I see what you are saying. Is there such a beast?

In reality if the content were delivered to us left alone without human intervention there would be no need for a VP in the chain. I hope that day is not to far off.

I think the VP can be used to tweak the constant parameters in ones viewing system such as the PJ and the screen. Changing settings based on viewing material is tedious.
post #86 of 95


I'm sorry Alan, but that's some of the worst video processing I've ever seen. My God, I can see artifacts all over the place. And the pin cushioning is horrid, someone needs to help you adjust your anamorphic lens. And the hot spotting on the lower right, ouch!

post #87 of 95
Thread Starter 
Q, as usual, sharp eye. Also note by the moire in my pictures my touch screens run with perforated material
post #88 of 95
My gosh Alan,

You look like us audiophiles who tweak every aspect of the chain looking for the holy grail... For my 50g's I thought everything I did sounded better, but then...... i just wanted to enjoy the music.

And yes,

I am a CRT guy......

Have fun tweaking.

MAK
post #89 of 95
Alan:

Reading Peter's thread, A Moon of Saturn in a Boutique Hotel ? I stumbled upon your use of the VC300.

Which Package of the VC300 did you buy and if you don't mind me asking what is your work around if any for 1080P60 output
post #90 of 95
I know this is an ancient thread, but I have been wondering how the VC300 compares to the new BMD Teranex 2D. Is the processing on the new unit up to the standard of the old?
As the new units are $1995, it would be interesting to know if they perform as well as the older $50,000 models.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) › If your serious about video processing you owe it to ck out Teranex. Pics added.