Epson Ensemble HD 1080 - The Home Theater for everyone but us? Let's Discuss!

Greetings all,

Time for a little controversy (enthusiastic discussion), about what I consider to be the breakthrough product of 2008 for millions (not 10s of thousands) of people.

Most of us on the forums are "hard core enthusiasts and hobbyists". We seek the best individual components, and assemble the best home theater systems for ourselves. We often are DIYer's who do most if not all of the installation.

We are a small group, relative to the entire home theater (including those tiny Plasma's and LCDTV) world.

Why, because projector based home theater is simply too much work - too much research (projector, receiver, speakers, cabling, remotes, etc.), too much comparing, too complicated an installation, basically too much hassle, for the vast majority (that can afford one) to even contemplate one. Almost everyone would love a projector based home theater, but few have the time, or the intestinal fortitude, to tackle a major project.

Enter the Epson Ensemble HD 1080. It's designed so that almost anyone with a suitable room, can buy one, and be up and running (scheduling allowing), fully installed by a dealer, the same day!

Boy, does that change the dynamic of the industry. Please note, this is simply the first complete system. I see most of the manufacturers likely to emulate what Epson has done, so expect to see more, similar systems, at future CEDIA's and CES shows!

We are the early adopters, the recommenders, the folks our friends turn to for advice. Yet we fail them far more often than not. We can't convince our friends to join the world of real home theater, they just don't want the stress and hassle, even if they have the dollars. They go out and buy a plasma. End of conversation.

No longer. Consider: The Ensemble HD has a very good projector - the Epson Home Cinema 1080 (not the UB), a great sound system - full 5.1, with lots of power, tuner, DVD player, etc. pre-programmed universal remote control, all the wiring, and even exterior wiring channels, so you don't even have to open the walls. You just need one AC outlet.

And the complete system can be installed in 4-5 hours.

It's great. I now have one in my second theater! My wife loves, it, my daughter loves it, (even I do). My brother-in-law is getting one for his birthday. Is it the ultimate home theater? Obviously not. But it is so well thought out, and integrated, and so easy to install, that it is the first home theater for the masses!

No longer do we have to fail our friends. We can help our friends enjoy the glory of home theater. We finally can talk about something that they will consider.

The Epson Ensemble HD 1080 is a true "instant home theater" it is one all but the hardest core enthusiast can thoroughly enjoy. I've now got one installed in my "second theater", and I must tell you, it is truly a complete and impressive system.

It is our chance, to make a difference in the world. Lifting millions from the poverty of small screens and pathetic in plasma speakers, into the up-lifting world of shake the house action movies, and watching the Olympics and football with the best seats in the house.

OK, it's not for all the masses. It does cost about $7000+. And it's probably not suited for the typical condo or apartment, especially if you like that 150 watt sub-woofer cranking on an action flick, or what Bon Jovi playing at concert levels. Other than that, though, this looks like the winnder, and a new breed of product.

For those with a decent credit card line, or an equity line, it means years of outstanding enjoyment. And no hassles! Decide today, enjoy today, (or tomorrow, next day, depending on how busy the dealer's installers are). But part of the beauty, is that they will be in and out of a house in an afternoon.

So, what do you think? Is this the product we can recommend to all our "hobbyist challenged" friends?

It should make for a lively debate. I reviewed the whole system, including the installation, publishing just the other day. It should answer most of your questions.

I really am looking forward to knowing whether we - our friend's "experts", can look upon with enthusiasm, a product, not necessarily for us, but one that works for most people who turn to us for advice.

Let the games begin!

for those who need to know more, here's a link to the full review.

Thanks! -art

Greetings!

No, I was unaware of this issue. I have never used a HTPC/equivalent, only DVD, Blu-ray, and HDTV sources, and have never spotted that problem, either when I originally reviewed the Home Cinema 1080, or in the 30-40 hours I have watched the system installed.

I acknowledge this may be a problem for PC based folks, but, if my observations are correct, it doesn't appear with normal hdmi input from DVD/Blu-ray/HDTV. If it does, then perhaps I have never spotted it, because single pixel wide text is not likely to occur when when watching movies, and other non-PC content.

And, for the target market, I really doubt more than a tiny percentage of potential owners will ever interface a computer to their system.

Still, something to consider for some.

Well, the thread is generating the type of comments I expected. I'll respond to a few other comments so far, mostly to restate the key concept. -a

Ahh, jhunt17

I do believe you are missing the point. I have never suggested that it would be a good, or great value for DIYers. In fact I seriously doubt any DIYer would ever buy a complete, pre-packaged system. This was not designed for DIYer's.

It's designed for the friends of DIYers - the ones who have no intention of ever running a wire themselves, or painting a wall, or researching or shopping for audio speakers, receivers etc.

The folks who admire your system, but simply would never consider investing even 10% the time you have invested in yours.

Those folks, IMO, may want a system like yours (perhaps not that good), but it's just too much work!

I conjecture, that no matter how helpful you are to those friends, they simply would never tackle dealing with deciding all the key elements in a complete system, and they sure aren't interested in opening their walls, drywalling and painting.

Now, someone mentioned it's for rich folks. Sorry, nope, rich folks - you know, the one's Obama wants to tax to death, don't spend $7,000 - $8000, unless it's an extra system for their kid's 400 sq foot bonus room. Rich folks - spend $25K, $50K, $250K. Hey, they'll spend $7,000 just for a couple of chairs or couch for the room, and a faux antique theater style pop-corn machine.

So, again, this not for you. Question is, do you think that it will be a successful system for those who otherwise not buy a projector based system.

So, ask yourself, your friends who will never tackle what you have done, would they be happy with a system with this level of performance, for this price??? (I'm assuming they can afford the roughly $7500 installed, over the $4500+ installation, that you would need to perform as well. Yes, you will try, and try, and try, to convince them, that if they do it your way, piece by piece, they will get more performance, but you already know, they aren't interested in the work, only the end result. Which means 100" not 42" or 50".

Keep in mind, that currently, larger LCDTVs + plasmas, likely outsell home theater projectors in the US, by at least 20:1, and maybe 50:1. And on top of that, since projectors are mostly bought by enthusiasts, we enthusiasts are far more likely to replace a projector every year or two, people will use that same old plasma for a decade or more.

Also, one nice thing that I like about the Epson projector (UB still would be better), is that while it's brightness is pretty average in best mode, it can crank out about 1500 lumens when you need it, for that football game, or olympic event. And I imagine that many of the potential buyers are going to be at least as much interested in sports/TV, as with movies. I suspect that most of us, are "movies first" in terms of priority. -art

As noted, it's an HC1080, not a UB, so it's value is probably $2000, not $2800.

As to getting better sound for $1500 with receiver, are you remembering that your $1500 system's speakers would most likely have to be in-walls? At the minimum, extremely small satellite speakers, mounted high, out of the way of anything else in the room. One of the nice things about the system, is that there are no speakers taking up space, just the cradle for the projector and a screen enclosure that is a few inches deeper than most motorized screens. That will have great appeal, especially when it's "wife approval time".

No one will argue that at $7000, that we can't put together more pure performance, hand selecting everything.

Real world - people - do you know that the average car shopping test drives only one model car, with all the brands, and competing models out there?

Well less than one percent of car shoppers, I believe, test drive 3 or more vehicles before making a purchase (I'm talking new cars now, everyone test drives used cars.)

These are your neighbors, we're talking about. They are buying their 3rd Camry in a row, and only test drove the first one, but sat in the last two.

Do you really think they will spend 20+ hours picking out a system, meeting with 3 different installer companies for a quote (they will not do the work themselves, that's you guys, not them). Not a chance.

My point is this is the ticket for the masses (that can afford $7000-$8000).

Sure, Epson would sell more if they charged $5000, or $4500, but that's not the point. If a product like this can prove to sell sufficient tonnage, to prove the viability, then you'll see competing models, and you will see dramatic reductions in cost (20-40%), Epson will be able to figure out how many more 1080 versions they can sell at $6000, $5000, $4500, $4000, and will, of course, once they have a handle on the overall viability of the concept, they will no doubt adjust the price for maximum marketshare and maximum profit, as any good business would. My biggest fear, is that Epson isn't a great marketing company. Someone mentioned Bose. (BTW I have never cared for the sound from Bose - going back 30+ years to the old 901s). Bose could sell millions of these, them suckas are the king of marketing in the audio industry. -art

Hey, do any of you DIYers have any idea what it really costs to pay a professional, to open up at least one wall, and lots of ceiling and possibly rear wall (speakers everywhere), and run all those wires (to code)? Don't forget, in a typical installation, you need to provide power to at least three separate locations - where the electronics are, the screen (it's motorized, as most people prefer who don't have a dedicated room only for home theater (our target market) then to drywall it, then to repaint over everything? Most local installers charge a minimum of $125 an hour, $150 is probably typical for folks who are seasoned, and good at it. Don't forget you'll want a licenced electrician, to set up the power. When I wired up my main theater, (high ceilings), just the wiring was over $2500 and I got a good break on the price, since I referred those folks lots of biz. Then I still had to pay for drywalling, and repainting. Because of the building codes in my relatively new home (10 years old), it took 22 separate cuts to wire my room. (Had I had normal celings, that would have dropped to about 14 cuts.)

The point is, people who want to pay professionals to install a system - $500 as someone mentioned, just ain't gonna happen. Hey Circuit City and Best Buy charge $500 to mount a plasma to a wall, provide the power, and hook up the wiring, and it's only that cheap, if the equipment, is basically right below the screen. and that folks is about as easy as it gets. $500! (The beauty of this, is that with the channels, no wall need be opened at all, keeping the cost down). -art

Enough you get the idea! -a

I hope you are kidding? Dealers have been putting together packages since day one. As others point out, though, most of us, are too picky, we want this projector with those speakers, and that sub, and that AV receiver, and the next guy wants something different.

You want dealers to do all that extra work (costs money), and then most of us will complain that they are charging too much, and you can get the stuff for less.

Epson has done what you have suggested, and look at the feedback from the bulk of us. They are in much better shape to be able to do so, and not go out of business, than a dealer. Imagine if Jason said - "hey, here's this system. You can only buy this combination, and it costs more than if you buy each thing separately from wherever, but we have a manual?" I'd wish him luck. Enthusiasts normally do not pay for information, that would be no fun. I've offered consulting services over the years. When I tell people I'll provide them basic help and recommendations for $150 (when their looking to spend $3000 - $6000 - so 2.5% to 5%, there aren't any takers. such is life. -art

PS, ok gotta get back to work or I'll never get this Mitsubishi HC1600 review published, I'll stop back tomorrow, or late tonight. -a

Ahh, it's you again - jhunt17.

You are off the mark. Your statement about the Z2000 is not relevant. Consider, the Z2000 is perhaps the dimmest 1080p projector on the market.

That makes it a weak choice for those that see this as an all purpose solution, SPORTS and other TV, as well as movies. The Sanyo on a good day, downhill, with a strong tailwind, (and so-so color) still can't find six hundred lumens (mid-zoom point), even if its life depended on it, even in its brightest mode. The Epson does a respectable job for sports at 1300+ lumens. Big difference. Purists - Sanyo, definitely, masses - Epson will be the better choice for most. We are not talking about "best projector, but best solution" I think that is the important point. -art

Yep, those "upper middle class" folks have been keeping the economy in general, and Best Buy and Circuit City, in business for a long, long time. And there are 10s of millions of them. Out here in "the O.C", median home price is "down" to just below $500,000 and the 75% line - the home price that represents the bottom of the 25% most expensive, I believe is still hanging in over $800,000. Population of the county - almost 3 million. Households - 1 million - that makes 250,000 families in homes worth at least $800,000. Lot's of potential customers! Just got an email from - get this, a builder. He says biz is ******, but when it starts picking up (he builds about 150 homes a year, he's thinking about making it a "standard option".

BTW: $7500 = 15 movies a year at $65 each for a family of 4, (excluding gasoline), for 7 years. By the time 7 years rolls around, it will cost $100 minimum (7 years ago, a large soda, and large popcorn was $5. have you been out there lately. More like $12. Figure, for anyone who likes movies (and that's nevermind those "decent" Laker's tickets at $150 a piece, whose seats will never have the view I get in my theater.)

Now many of us still go to the movies (couldn't wait for Transformers, or Bond, to go to disc, etc.) At our home, probably 7-9 trips a year to the theater, and another 50 movies and uncountable hours of sports and events, every year in our theater. But we used to hit the theaters at least 20 times a year.

So, epson's problem will not be whether there are enough customers, but how to reach them, and educate them as to how practical the whole idea is. As I've said previously, Epson tends to make great product, but isn't the mega-marketer that some others are. -a

That's good feedback, I wasn't aware it has been shipping there for a while, but it's not surprising, anything "new" that's good, tends to get early traction in Japan, a good sign for Epson's efforts here.

Thanks polygonkilla! (interesting handle - are you an engineer?) -art