Signature Elite 141 Owners Thread - Page 47

Diddo, only I wish he was family. Thanks D-Nice for all your help.

D-Nice

I think that most of the folks on AVS truly appreciate your knowledge, input and contributions. Your truly a pillar of knowledge and HIGHLY RESPECTED among us.

THANKS for all your help

I was talking to a sales person today at a high-end home theater store and he told me that the processor in the pioneer elite 151 is superior to the 141's processor. This guy really seemed to know his stuff but I am wondering if he just got the model numbers confused. I thought both plasmas contained the exact same processor. He also told me that the break in period for these 9g kuros is completely unnecessary. Hmm little confused

1. The 141FD is totally unrestricted when it comes to an ISF calibration. Apparently 151FD is not ... there are a few menus that are not accessible. Calibrators have said calibrating an 141FD is like calibrating a professional display.
2. The 141FD is pre-aged at the factory for 200 hours.

Yes you are right, the 151 settings do not work for the 141.
However I did use the 9 gamma point settings this time and I like what I am seeing.

Thanks for being a stand up guy. If it wasn't for you I don't think I would be were I am now with the hole calibration thing. You suggested that I get the I1Pro and you were right.
btw: after i run some checks on these setting i will post here. Maybe you can get some ideas.

Peter.

vancouver, I'm working on getting Vancouver, BC covered by another Calibrator.. he just contacted me in regards to ControlCAL... Now, I need to find that other Vancouver, BC 9G owner...

You still want a Professional Calibration, correct?

It sounds like you are not too confident with your results.

I'd say very likely the processors are the same, but the firmwares are different.

I'd get the 141 for it being thinner. I'd get the 151 because it comes with a stand and has speakers.

Other nice to haves about the 151 include TV tuner, usb port and media gallery software.

Other nice to have about 141 include things like a more detailed menu and web based access to calibration controls etc.

Based on what I know

Are right-angle adapters recommended for the HDMI cables when wall-mounting?

Thanks!

I didn't know if there would be enough room for the cable to go through the wall (horizontally) and then turn (vertically) to plug into the 141.

The blacks on the 141FD are so outstanding that when watching a movie with black bars top and bottom, in a semi darkened room you are totally unaware of them ... they disappear ... the picture just seems to float in the room. It is near impossible to see where the black bars start and the black TV frame starts.

I recently watched the BD "Iron Man" ... it looked amazing on this set ... the amount of fine detail and overall picture quality was outstanding. I love this TV more every day I watch it. And the scary thing about it is that it will look even more amazing once I have it ISF calibrated.

Is it normal for the Enhancer mode (set to 1) to cause sort of a flickering of fine details in the image? I find it is fairly severe at times espeically if the fine detail covers a large area of the screen. Enhancer mode 3 (soft) totally eliminates this problem but really softens details.

That's why you use enhancer mode 2 (natural). It only makes sense for 1 to introduce problems.

Sorry I wasn't more specific. Enhancer mode 3 is the only way to get rid of this flickering (both 1 and 2 cause or enhance it). Problem is that mode 3 is too soft. Nambit is coming over tonight. Maybe he can take a look at what I'm seeing.

Oh, that isn't good. I agree. 3 is way too soft, but 2 is perfect for me (and one does cause some artifacts and EE). It sounds like a problem.

Enhancer mode 1 (hard) should not be a cause of your flicking problem. Try and lower your Sharpness setting to -15. Also you may want to try 3DYC 2. How high is your contrast setting?

See my post below. Also If you have controlcal give these settings a try. And then see if you still have the flickering problem.

Do Not Repost These Setting, Thanks.


Pioneer 9G Elite Monitor 141 ISF-Night Settings.
I used a Pioneer BDP-51/05 for these settings.
High Speed On, Source direct, Professional mode.

Picture Settings:
AV Selection: ISF-Night
Contrast: 16
Brightness: 0
Color: +10
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0

Pure Cinema: 2 (Advance)
Black Level: 0 (Off)
CTI: 0 (Off)
Color Space: 2
Color Temp: 6 (Manual)
Screen size 0 (Dot By Dot)

ACL: 0 (Off)
3DYC: 2
I-P Mode: 2
Text Optimization: 0 (Off)
Intelligent Mode: 0 (Off)
DRE Picture: 0 (Off)

Enhancer Mode: 1
Block NR: 0 (Off)
3DNR: 0 (Off)
Field NR: 0 (Off)
Mosquito NR: 0 (Off)

Power Save Mode: Off
Orbiter: Mode 0

RGB Controls
R High: 0
G High: 0
B High: +8
R Low: 0
G Low: 0
B Low: 0

Color Management
R: 0
Y: 0
G: 0
C: 0
B: 0
M: 0

Gamma
10%R +2
10%G +2
10%B +2
20%R +2
20%G +2
20%B +2
30%R +2
30%G +2
30%B +2
40%R +1
40%G +1
40%B +1
50%R 0
50%G 0
50%B 0
60%R 0
60%G 0
60%B 0
70%R 0
70%G 0
70%B 0
80%R 0
80%G 0
80%B 0
90%R 0
90%G 0
90%B 0

 

1104.pdf 51.076171875k . file

SillySally,

Did you have to adjust the brightness one notch in the 51?

Why isn't the gamma perfectly linear?? On the elites they are, but you have to adjust the 9 pt controls. Or did you choose that for personal preference.

Nambit and I took a look at at the problem tonight. It looks like it could be a signal born issue that is amplified by the enhancer mode. Mode 3 just seems to average out the pixels making the flashing/flickering nearly disapear. Reducing Sharpness to minimum does help but not nearly as much as using mode 3.

BTW, Nambit is one extremely nice fellow and well stocked with media

On a side note I've decided to keep my 141 even though it's got the buzzzzzzzzzzz. I'm starting to get used to it and notice it a lot less.

Cheers

^^ You're still up?!

Heh, I might have forgotten my PS3 remote over there! Was a pleasure to meet
you! Thanks for letting me mess with your 141... sure brought back memories
of having the 150FD (nice big screen... beautiful picture). If only my laptop
was more cooperative. Ahh well...

I talked to a Pioneer rep face to face today ...

1. He confirmed that the Signature monitors are pre-aged 200 hours. So, there is no need to run the break-in disc.
2. The 141FD can be set to display Black & White. This will give a superior picture when watching older B&W movies. He said they really look amazing. I believe these may be the only monitors that will allow you to do that.
3. There is a hidden menu that will allow you to reverse the picture should you require that option.
4. He mention something about the fact the 141FD can produce a blue mask for setup ... usually a calibrator will have to look through a blue filter which can produce inaccurate results.
5. Regarding the next gen Pioneer plasmas ... yes the glass will be made at the Panasonic plant but to Pioneer standards. Pioneer techs are training Panasonic how to produce them. All other component including the most important ... the video processor will continue to be made in the Pioneer plant. So, the Pioneer plasma quality will be maintained.

I also talked face to face to a Professional ISF Calibrator ...

For anyone interested in having a professional ISF calibration done in the Greater Vancouver area I can give you the name of a highly qualified calibrator who has many years of experience. He spent many years doing calibrations for a couple of high end video dealers before forming his own company. His pro equipment has ControlCal built in. He explained to me what exactly what he does and showed me the equipment he uses. He is a true professional calibrator who comes with the highest recommendation from dealers he has worked with. Send me a PM.

He said unlike many TV's the Pioneer Elites are usually within 5% of optium out of the factory, while the lesser brands can be over 100% from optimum.

Also, I saw a flat screen that could give Pioneer a real challenge if they can reduce the price. It is the latest 65" Sharp. The blacks are jet black ... the best by far that I have ever seen on an LCD ... they appear to be every bit as good as the Pioneer Signature Elites. The colors are excellent. There is little or no fall off in PQ way off axis. And it is the thinnest TV on the market today. The downside ... list is $16,000 in Canada, more than double the cost of the 60" 141FD.

Bob, would you say that the Sharp trumped the Pioneer in all aspects? Did you notice any ill effects on the LED strobing? Blooming? Crosstalk? Picture noise? How is the motion performance?

When I saw the XBR8, my initial impression was "OH MY!". After about 15 minutes, flaws began to surface. The biggest one IMO, was this odd rippling effect throughout the entire screen when dynamic bl was engaged. It was extremely noticable during dark scenes. Also, on 2.35:1 content, you could see backlight seapage on all four corners, and the blacks, while obviously very "black", had this washed out look to them, which I assume is due to the matte finish screen.

P.S. I did tweak the settings for an improved picture.

I did not spend enough time to fully evaluate it to be able to answer those questions. Next time I am at the store I will spend more time. I wouldn't say it trumped the Pioneer ... but it may be very close to its equal. The only negative that I saw was cosmetic in nature ... it has a silver frame with not option black one. At the moment the price definitely makes the Pioneer the better buy even if it were slightly better.

Nope. I took care of that in my settings. However there still is a small white crush around IRE 60%. Nothing I can do about it unless I want to sacrifice something other than this.

btw; I am posting settings for my new Panasonic DMP-BD35. You will see a difference in the settings.

Peter.

Do Not Re Post These Setting, Thanks.


Pioneer 9G Elite Monitor 141 ISF-Night Settings.
I used a Panasonic DMP-BD35 for these settings (US 1.5).
24P on, 1080P.

Picture Settings:
AV Selection: ISF-Night
Contrast: 17
Brightness: 0
Color: +7
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0

Pure Cinema: 2 (Advance)
Black Level: 0 (Off)
CTI: 0 (Off)
Color Space: 2
Color Temp: 6 (Manual)
Screen size 0 (Dot By Dot)

ACL: 0 (Off)
3DYC: 2
I-P Mode: 2
Text Optimization: 0 (Off)
Intelligent Mode: 0 (Off)
DRE Picture: 0 (Off)

Enhancer Mode: 1
Block NR: 0 (Off)
3DNR: 0 (Off)
Field NR: 0 (Off)
Mosquito NR: 0 (Off)

Power Save Mode: Off
Orbiter: Mode 0

RGB Controls
R High: +1
G High: 0
B High: +7
R Low: -1
G Low: 0
B Low: 0

Color Management
R: 0
Y: 0
G: 0
C: 0
B: +1
M: 0

Gamma
10%R +2
10%G +2
10%B +2
20%R +2
20%G +2
20%B +2
30%R +1
30%G +1
30%B +1
40%R 0
40%G 0
40%B 0
50%R 0
50%G 0
50%B 0
60%R 0
60%G 0
60%B 0
70%R 0
70%G 0
70%B 0
80%R 0
80%G 0
80%B 0
90%R 0
90%G 0
90%B 0

Peter.

 

Panny55.pdf 51.32421875k . file

Look forward to your thoughts and observations.

Good question. Using ISF mode in my 141 there is only one gamma 3. And that imo is why there is a 9 pt gamma (27 RGB controls). I have never seen a perfectly flat gamma with my 141 or 150 before you start calibration your high/low temp settings. Why I use the 9 pt gamma controls that are in ISF mode, is because of the Luminance mainly. However by getting a perfectly flat gamma there are other benefits. Those benefits show up in my latest ISF mode settings. imo doing and using the 9 pt gamma controls results in a more life like picture. What the human eye sees.
Also unlike a lot of ISF for hire calibrators, I do not have a pattern generator. The reason why I do not use a pattern generator is because of the cost ($1600.00) and the fact that I calibrate from the source. ie my panny BD55 and pioneer BD51. Yes I have read that some for hire calibrators say there is really no need to do that, but imo, in the case of the pioneer BD-51/05 you must calibrate from the source. Just look at my two latest ISF calibrations for my BD55 and BD51. The settings may not look much different but just by changing one of those settings changes everything.
I am sure you know all of what i am saying, but I am going into a little detail because of others that are trying to learn.