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Signature Elite 141 Owners Thread - Page 48

post #1411 of 5242
11/7/08 at 7:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Good question. Using ISF mode in my 141 there is only one gamma 3. And that imo is why there is a 9 pt gamma (27 RGB controls). I have never seen a perfectly flat gamma with my 141 or 150 before you start calibration your high/low temp settings. Why I use the 9 pt gamma controls that are in ISF mode, is because of the Luminance mainly. However by getting a perfectly flat gamma there are other benefits. Those benefits show up in my latest ISF mode settings. imo doing and using the 9 pt gamma controls results in a more life like picture. What the human eye sees.
Also unlike a lot of ISF for hire calibrators, I do not have a pattern generator. The reason why I do not use a pattern generator is because of the cost ($1600.00) and the fact that I calibrate from the source. ie my panny BD55 and pioneer BD51. Yes I have read that some for hire calibrators say there is really no need to do that, but imo, in the case of the pioneer BD-51/05 you must calibrate from the source. Just look at my two latest ISF calibrations for my BD55 and BD51. The settings may not look much different but just by changing one of those settings changes everything.
I am sure you know all of what i am saying, but I am going into a little detail because of others that are trying to learn.

Thanks. Could the gamma not be perfectly linear because of the source, which is highly possible. Great work you have done
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post #1412 of 5242
11/7/08 at 7:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiDef Bob View Post

I talked to a Pioneer rep face to face today ...

1. He confirmed that the Signature monitors are pre-aged 200 hours. So, there is no need to run the break-in disc.
2. The 141FD can be set to display Black & White. This will give a superior picture when watching older B&W movies. He said they really look amazing. I believe these may be the only monitors that will allow you to do that.
3. There is a hidden menu that will allow you to reverse the picture should you require that option.
4. He mention something about the fact the 141FD can produce a blue mask for setup ... usually a calibrator will have to look through a blue filter which can produce inaccurate results.
5. Regarding the next gen Pioneer plasmas ... yes the glass will be made at the Panasonic plant but to Pioneer standards. Pioneer techs are training Panasonic how to produce them. All other component including the most important ... the video processor will continue to be made in the Pioneer plant. So, the Pioneer plasma quality will be maintained.

Can you calarify that?? I s it something like if you get burn-in/IR from playing madden for too long, you can turn that on and play it more, which reverses the wear. If so, I mentioned that LONG ago as a cool feature but NEVER expected anybody to implement it ever. Can somebody chime in on how the monochrome mode performs?
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post #1413 of 5242
11/7/08 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

Can you calarify that?? I s it something like if you get burn-in/IR from playing madden for too long, you can turn that on and play it more, which reverses the wear. If so, I mentioned that LONG ago as a cool feature but NEVER expected anybody to implement it ever. Can somebody chime in on how the monochrome mode performs?

The rep told me how to find the menu ... I just forgot ... I should have written it down. However, he gave me his card so I can e-mail him. I will ask exactly how the Pioneer produces true monochrome. He has seen the mode in operation ... he said it really improves the image that the color mode produces.
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post #1414 of 5242
11/7/08 at 7:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

Can you calarify that?? I s it something like if you get burn-in/IR from playing madden for too long, you can turn that on and play it more, which reverses the wear. If so, I mentioned that LONG ago as a cool feature but NEVER expected anybody to implement it ever. Can somebody chime in on how the monochrome mode performs?

LOL, not hidden and posted previously, it's on page 71 of your Owners Manual.. Don't you guys read..

Blue Only Mode on page 42 BTW, the 9G ISFccc Elite Monitor Profile for ControlCAL has been updated with a Blue Only Mode Control... I'll upload it to the website when I get a chance.

Just hold Display down until just the Input is Displayed, then press the Home Menu Button. ;}

NOTE: Once you enter the Integrator Menu, the Picture and Screen Options in the Home Menu will be reset to factory defaults... (ISF Memories are not affected).
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post #1415 of 5242
11/7/08 at 10:57pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

Can you calarify that?? I s it something like if you get burn-in/IR from playing madden for too long, you can turn that on and play it more, which reverses the wear. If so, I mentioned that LONG ago as a cool feature but NEVER expected anybody to implement it ever. Can somebody chime in on how the monochrome mode performs?

you wont get burn in. I game for hours and dont even get a hint of it.


If you really want to reverse the picture for any reason you can easily do so and the instructions are in the manual.
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post #1416 of 5242
11/8/08 at 12:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

Thanks. Could the gamma not be perfectly linear because of the source, which is highly possible. Great work you have done

I guess that is possible, and seeing that I generate all my calibrations from the source that is possible. However If the source is creating a bad gamma, then I would think that the bad gamma would hurt the PQ when using that source. So if that is the case then you are always much better off doing a calibration from the source. I my case my two sources are my panny BD55 and my pio BD51.If I ever get around to it I will calibrate my toshiba HD35.
btw; imo the panny BD55 is a far better match for my 141 using BD. And also I find the AQ to be better.

Peter.
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post #1417 of 5242
11/8/08 at 12:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

you wont get burn in. I game for hours and dont even get a hint of it.


If you really want to reverse the picture for any reason you can easily do so and the instructions are in the manual.

That's probably right about the burn in, however I did get a little image retention from using the ISF mode for a few hours at a time do my calibrations.
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post #1418 of 5242
11/8/08 at 7:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

LOL, not hidden and posted previously, it's on page 71 of your Owners Manual.. Don't you guys read..

Blue Only Mode on page 42 BTW, the 9G ISFccc Elite Monitor Profile for ControlCAL has been updated with a Blue Only Mode Control... I'll upload it to the website when I get a chance.

Just hold Display down until just the Input is Displayed, then press the Home Menu Button. ;}

NOTE: Once you enter the Integrator Menu, the Picture and Screen Options in the Home Menu will be reset to factory defaults... (ISF Memories are not affected).

Since when did I have the 141?? Always had the 151.
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post #1419 of 5242
11/8/08 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

Since when did I have the 141?? Always had the 151.

Well, this is the 141 Owners Thread so it would be safe to assume that is what you had..

Anyways, my info was targeted at anyone who didn't already know about the features discussed in the manual...
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post #1420 of 5242
11/8/08 at 4:19pm
Has anyone had any retention issues from watching sports with their score boxes.
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post #1421 of 5242
11/8/08 at 5:10pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiDef Bob View Post

Has anyone had any retention issues from watching sports with their score boxes.

not me ..never. In fact i have been playing fallout 3 on xbox for hours at a time with no signs of IR.
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post #1422 of 5242
11/8/08 at 5:41pm
Do I need anything just to get into the ISF settings menu. I do not currently have any software. I will be purchasing a pkg soon, but would like to at least get into the settings menu for ISF. How do I do this? Thanks
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post #1423 of 5242
11/8/08 at 9:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

Well, this is the 141 Owners Thread so it would be safe to assume that is what you had..

Anyways, my info was targeted at anyone who didn't already know about the features discussed in the manual...

Nahh, I wish, but I'm too impatient to wait You've seen me post in both the non-elite and the elite threads. So does that mean I have both of those too What about some panasonic or samsung threads Just messin' with you. Can anybody post a picture of the inverted or whatever picture. Sounds interesting to me.
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post #1424 of 5242
11/8/08 at 9:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FEARSOMEFAN View Post

Do I need anything just to get into the ISF settings menu. I do not currently have any software. I will be purchasing a pkg soon, but would like to at least get into the settings menu for ISF. How do I do this? Thanks

Buy controlcal from turbe for $25, get a $4 RS-232 cord, and get a computer to connect the cord to (computer to tv) (if you don't already have one ).
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post #1425 of 5242
11/9/08 at 5:52pm
Finally took possession of my 141 on Friday. My dad and I wall mounted it today. All went well. Glass panel arrived in good shape. (Thanks Roman!)

Don't have anything to feed it yet (still moving in). I am looking forward to seeing what it can do for myself.

I appreciate everyone that makes this site so useful. I am sure I will have questions.

I will post pics as soon as I get a chance.
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post #1426 of 5242
11/9/08 at 7:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by coltsfreak18 View Post

Can anybody post a picture of the inverted or whatever picture. Sounds interesting to me.

Sorry, little camera shake..

Mirror


Mirror


Monotone
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post #1427 of 5242
11/10/08 at 4:54am
Pretty excited!!! , Kevin Miller is coming by next Sunday to ISF calibrate my 141. I hope i see a good difference. I would like alot more POP from this display. Right now it doesnt have as much depth as my JVC dila ISF calibrated did. Im sure ill be happy with the final result.
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post #1428 of 5242
11/10/08 at 10:01am
Congrats! Cant wait to see the pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickff View Post

Finally took possession of my 141 on Friday. My dad and I wall mounted it today. All went well. Glass panel arrived in good shape. (Thanks Roman!)

Don't have anything to feed it yet (still moving in). I am looking forward to seeing what it can do for myself.

I appreciate everyone that makes this site so useful. I am sure I will have questions.

I will post pics as soon as I get a chance.
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post #1429 of 5242
11/10/08 at 6:34pm
Hey all. Good to see all the great stuff happening in this thread. I've been off AVS for a month. Woa! Catching up is a feat and a half. (not to be confused with a foot and a half)

I'm continuing to love my 141! And Jeff Meier is coming to callibrate it on Friday!! Last I heard, I was going to be his first 141.

I have a couple of questions for y'all:

1. For those of you who have your 141's mounted very close to a wall (vancouver, others), how did you arrange bias lights? Two were not enough for me because the tiny distance to wall didn't give the light enough room to spread out. I'm getting two additional lights and connecting wires so that I can use 4. I won't be able to experiment with where they go because I can't take down and remount TV more than once. So do any of you have suggestions about how far in you mounted your lights? How did you adjust them? I'm using the Ideal Lumes.

2. Well, I wasn't going to buy a blu ray player because my HD-DVD player seems to be enough. But I'm feeling tempted to get either a blu-ray player or receiver before Jeff arrives. I sure won't change my equipment after that. For those of you who pair a Pioneer blu-ray with a 141 (or 151), do you notice the improvement that was rumored before it came out - you know, they were saying that Pio would create the illusion of 36 bit color when paired with a Pioneer TV. Can you see this distinction?

Thanks all!!
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post #1430 of 5242
11/10/08 at 6:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vashti View Post

Hey all. Good to see all the great stuff happening in this thread. I've been off AVS for a month. Woa! Catching up is a feat and a half. (not to be confused with a foot and a half)

I'm continuing to love my 141! And Jeff Meier is coming to callibrate it on Friday!! Last I heard, I was going to be his first 141.

I have a couple of questions for y'all:

1. For those of you who have your 141's mounted very close to a wall (vancouver, others), how did you arrange bias lights? Two were not enough for me because the tiny distance to wall didn't give the light enough room to spread out. I'm getting two additional lights and connecting wires so that I can use 4. I won't be able to experiment with where they go because I can't take down and remount TV more than once. So do any of you have suggestions about how far in you mounted your lights? How did you adjust them? I'm using the Ideal Lumes.

2. Well, I wasn't going to buy a blu ray player because my HD-DVD player seems to be enough. But I'm feeling tempted to get either a blu-ray player or receiver before Jeff arrives. I sure won't change my equipment after that. For those of you who pair a Pioneer blu-ray with a 141 (or 151), do you notice the improvement that was rumored before it came out - you know, they were saying that Pio would create the illusion of 36 bit color when paired with a Pioneer TV. Can you see this distinction?

Thanks all!!


Nice to see you back

Bias lighting: My mount only gives 1.5" of clearance between the 141 and the wall. turning the Ideal Lume side ways leaves enough room to place them. I taped a wire hanger using duct tape for the lights on the sides, and did nothing but let the light on top sit on top of the mount. Having a low profile mount and using these lights does not leave room to reach the power switch (In fact I had to file one down to just make it fit). I now control the and off using a switch outlet on a power conditioner. Works well if your condition can be controlled via a 12v trigger from your processor. Turns on when the TV turns off and off when its off. I believe you can get and RF controller for the lights form the site if you want to go that route.

On a side not I highly recommend the lights.

In regards to a BD player. As much as I highly recommend on (and I only watch HD movies now except for the very rare exception...Christmas tittles using Apple TV mostly) I would personally wait for the Oppo player due out not to long. If you want to match and get a pioneer then jump on it ASAP. There are too many tittles on BD to not have a player with a TV like yours.
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post #1431 of 5242
11/10/08 at 7:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

Sorry, little camera shake..

Mirror

Ohh, I thought it inverted the colors (kind of if you have the component cables in the wrong spot) so the sidebars would be white, the espn logo would be black with blue.
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post #1432 of 5242
11/10/08 at 7:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vashti View Post

Hey all. Good to see all the great stuff happening in this thread. I've been off AVS for a month. Woa! Catching up is a feat and a half. (not to be confused with a foot and a half)

I'm continuing to love my 141! And Jeff Meier is coming to callibrate it on Friday!! Last I heard, I was going to be his first 141.

I have a couple of questions for y'all:

2. Well, I wasn't going to buy a blu ray player because my HD-DVD player seems to be enough. But I'm feeling tempted to get either a blu-ray player or receiver before Jeff arrives. I sure won't change my equipment after that. For those of you who pair a Pioneer blu-ray with a 141 (or 151), do you notice the improvement that was rumored before it came out - you know, they were saying that Pio would create the illusion of 36 bit color when paired with a Pioneer TV. Can you see this distinction?

Thanks all!!

Vashti, Stay away from the Pioneer 51/05. For now its bad news. Maybe later on Pioneer will fix all of the problems, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

The hottest ticket for a BD player is the Panasonic 55/35. PQ and AQ are at the very least as good as the Pioneer. The load times are much faster, so far very few problems. the panny is also a 2.0. And the price is hundreds less.
The Oppo may be a great BD player but if I were you I would wait and see about the Oppo. Also there are no firm release dates for the Oppo yet.
And yes I think Its a good idea to have everything that you are going to be using when Jeff comes.
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post #1433 of 5242
11/10/08 at 11:12pm
Thread Starter 
or just be safe and buy a PS3.

I cant believe that after all this time a game console is still the best BD player you can get. By best I mean one which preforms the most basic of functions IMO.
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post #1434 of 5242
11/10/08 at 11:50pm
The PS3 is still considered the "player of choice", within the professional industry. Just ask Jeff what he thinks/owns.

Edit: I would also like to add, that I own over 200 BD's, and I have NEVER had an issue with playback of ANY disc.
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post #1435 of 5242
11/11/08 at 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Vashti, Stay away from the Pioneer 51/05. For now its bad news. Maybe later on Pioneer will fix all of the problems, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

The hottest ticket for a BD player is the Panasonic 55/35. PQ and AQ are at the very least as good as the Pioneer. The load times are much faster, so far very few problems. the panny is also a 2.0. And the price is hundreds less.
The Oppo may be a great BD player but if I were you I would wait and see about the Oppo. Also there are no firm release dates for the Oppo yet.
And yes I think Its a good idea to have everything that you are going to be using when Jeff comes.

What sort of "bad news" are you referring to on the Pioneer 51/05 players? We've installed 2 05s so far. One on a 6020 and one on a Panny 850U both I thought looked pretty darn good. We've also done 2 pannys, the 30 and the 50. Both on LCDs though, so it is hard to compare that way. It's nice that you have both side by side to compare. I only have a PS3 for now and am waiting on the Oppo. I had the 980 and now have the 983 and am verry happy with their products. But I am very interested in the new Pioneer. We saw the 09FD at CEDIA and it looked very nice in the demo on a 141. Our rep from Pioneer was there and he went over some of the details. They're using a Pioneer/Renesas jointly developed video processing chipset. A dedicated power supply for the analog audio board, and eight Wolfson WM8740 DACs so the audio side looks to be set there to compete well. But $2000.00! even at my dealer cost, it's still pricey.

I don't want to turn this into a BD thread but does anybody know much about Renesas?
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post #1436 of 5242
11/11/08 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

Nice to see you back

Bias lighting: My mount only gives 1.5" of clearance between the 141 and the wall. turning the Ideal Lume side ways leaves enough room to place them. I taped a wire hanger using duct tape for the lights on the sides, and did nothing but let the light on top sit on top of the mount. Having a low profile mount and using these lights does not leave room to reach the power switch (In fact I had to file one down to just make it fit). I now control the and off using a switch outlet on a power conditioner. Works well if your condition can be controlled via a 12v trigger from your processor. Turns on when the TV turns off and off when its off. I believe you can get and RF controller for the lights form the site if you want to go that route.

On a side not I highly recommend the lights.

My set-up has a tiny bit more clearance. I have 2" where the TV is at it deepest and 3" around the edges. The Ideal-Lume is about 1.75" deep. I'd rather use the supplied velcro than try to use hooks, etc. I will be getting the RF controller. Does turning the lights sideways force you to compromise in any way? I think if I use mine around the edges (where there's 3" of clearance), I may be able to avoid turning them. How far from the edge of the TV did you mount yours? Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

In regards to a BD player. As much as I highly recommend on (and I only watch HD movies now except for the very rare exception...Christmas tittles using Apple TV mostly) I would personally wait for the Oppo player due out not to long. If you want to match and get a pioneer then jump on it ASAP. There are too many tittles on BD to not have a player with a TV like yours.

Well, I don't have nothing. My XA2 is an exceptional player, both with HD-DVDs and SD DVDs. I wish I could wait 6 months, but if I buy, it will be tomorrow - so that Jeff can callibrate it.
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post #1437 of 5242
11/11/08 at 12:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Vashti, Stay away from the Pioneer 51/05. For now its bad news. Maybe later on Pioneer will fix all of the problems, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

The hottest ticket for a BD player is the Panasonic 55/35. PQ and AQ are at the very least as good as the Pioneer. The load times are much faster, so far very few problems. the panny is also a 2.0. And the price is hundreds less.
The Oppo may be a great BD player but if I were you I would wait and see about the Oppo. Also there are no firm release dates for the Oppo yet.
And yes I think Its a good idea to have everything that you are going to be using when Jeff comes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

or just be safe and buy a PS3.

I cant believe that after all this time a game console is still the best BD player you can get. By best I mean one which preforms the most basic of functions IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

The PS3 is still considered the "player of choice", within the professional industry. Just ask Jeff what he thinks/owns.

Edit: I would also like to add, that I own over 200 BD's, and I have NEVER had an issue with playback of ANY disc.

Yeah, I'd also like to know why you're unhappy with the Pioneer. Of course, I'd love to buy something else that costs less - but was just wondering about that supposed benefit (36 bit depth) one gained by combining Pioneer TVs and blu ray players.

As for the PS3, I've read enough to know that this is probably the best thing out there. I know that Jeff really likes it. But I haven't bought any Sony products since the root-kit fiasco. Their corporate practices have bothered me so much that I just really hate filling their coffers with my money. If I can get something almost as good, I'd rather go with second best in this case.

Thanks all for the tips!
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post #1438 of 5242
11/11/08 at 1:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vashti View Post

My set-up has a tiny bit more clearance. I have 2" where the TV is at it deepest and 3" around the edges. The Ideal-Lume is about 1.75" deep. I'd rather use the supplied velcro than try to use hooks, etc. I will be getting the RF controller. Does turning the lights sideways force you to compromise in any way? I think if I use mine around the edges (where there's 3" of clearance), I may be able to avoid turning them. How far from the edge of the TV did you mount yours? Thanks.
.

mounting them sideways wont matter. You will see when you get them that you are able to both direct the light and change the intensity with the black filters that cover the bulb. As long as you dont see hot spots (see the actual light from the side) then mount them closer to the endge. I have mine in at least 8-10"
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post #1439 of 5242
11/11/08 at 1:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vashti View Post

Yeah, I'd also like to know why you're unhappy with the Pioneer. Of course, I'd love to buy something else that costs less - but was just wondering about that supposed benefit (36 bit depth) one gained by combining Pioneer TVs and blu ray players.

As for the PS3, I've read enough to know that this is probably the best thing out there. I know that Jeff really likes it. But I haven't bought any Sony products since the root-kit fiasco. Their corporate practices have bothered me so much that I just really hate filling their coffers with my money. If I can get something almost as good, I'd rather go with second best in this case.

Thanks all for the tips!

I have always hated sony too for many reasons. Sadly the PS3 is the best player. I do take comfort in knowing they lost a little money from me when I bought the 20 Gig version :P

BTW it doesnt matter what player you get you will not see 36 bit color since no movie uses 36 bit, and my money is on the fact no movie ever will on the BD format.
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post #1440 of 5242
11/11/08 at 1:38pm
Yeah, but Pioneer Blu-ray players are supposed to do something with Pioneer TVs - where they fill in missing information and get something like a 37 bit picture. I don't know if it works well or not.
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