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Signature Elite 141 Owners Thread - Page 51

post #1501 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

I see no difference in performance between the 141 and the 151.

Jeff, your opinion was strongly seconded by Kevin Miller while he performed an ISF calibration on my 151. He had recently done Robert's 141. I honestly don't think any of us could pick a properly calibrated 141 from a 151 in a blind A/B. You simply can't do better than either of these units in the PQ arena.

On another note, Kevin was surprised by how close my unit was to 'perfect' out of the box. My eyes had also told me that.
post #1502 of 5267
Hi Guys,

I'm currently in my 30th hr of break in using the break in dvd and D-Nice's recommennded 150 hr settings ...with the exception of SillySally's recommandation of using a contrast setting of 45 or below instead of D-Nice's contrast setting of 50.

I've noticed a dead or stuck pixel on the white sceens. Is this an alarming detail or is this normal? Is this a concern that needs to be addressed? I purchased the TV from a B&M store 3 hours away. Does a dead pixel qualify for a return? The hassel of unmounting the plasma from my Salamander mount and driving the 3 hrs?
post #1503 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Jeff, your opinion was strongly seconded by Kevin Miller while he performed an ISF calibration on my 151. He had recently done Robert's 141. I honestly don't think any of us could pick a properly calibrated 141 from a 151 in a blind A/B. You simply can't do better than either of these units in the PQ arena.

On another note, Kevin was surprised by how close my unit was to 'perfect' out of the box. My eyes had also told me that.

Ken, I searched the 9G Threads but didn't find one.. did you Post a Calibration Report? If not, how about a little more information about Kevin's calibration for the record?
post #1504 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

If you are going to use dnice break in settings for the 151, I would keep contrast no higher than +45.

I didn't take any readings (you may have but I missed the post)... did you?


The Contrast Control on the 141 has the same range as the 151.
post #1505 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluedevilfan View Post

Hi Guys, I'm currently in my 30th hr of break in using the break in dvd and D-Nice's recommennded 150 hr settings ...with the exception of SillySally's recommandation of using a contrast setting of 45 or below instead of D-Nice's contrast setting of 50.

I've noticed a dead or stuck pixel on the white sceens. Is this an alarming detail or is this normal? Is this a concern that needs to be addressed? I purchased the TV from a B&M store 3 hours away. Does a dead pixel qualify for a return? The hassel of unmounting the plasma from my Salamander mount and driving the 3 hrs?

it does happen, it's just a numbers game. not everyone is going to get pixel perfect display.

the return would depend on your b&m store policy. it would not usually qualify for a return through your Pioneer warranty. but some stores like a bb will let you return items for any reason within 30 days. many avs buy through stores like that just for this exact reason, one dead pixel and it gets returned/swapped out.

so it's up to you. If you can see it from your viewing area and it bugs you take it back. if not and you can live with it even knowing it's there then keep it.
post #1506 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

I didn't take any readings (you may have but I missed the post)... did you?


The Contrast Control on the 141 has the same range as the 151.

First let me say that D-Nice has been and is the best friend us Kuro owners have. He is the only professional ISF calibrator that will post user settings and raw data charts. And I would go as far to say that D-Nice is on my very short list of ISF calibrators that I would have calibrate my 141.

Yes I did. I am not saying that D-Nice is wrong, I am sure his settings are fine to use. Its just that after breaking in 3 kuros, I am not comfortable with a +50 contrast setting. And as long as the 141 already has 200 hours on it, imo why not play it very safe. And as most of us know the higher the contrast and color settings the quicker the break-in time is.
Also as i would think you know that many folks do not use a break-in at all. They just calibrate as they see fit or use D-Nice settings for there display and there by never raise the contrast as high as you would for a break-in. In my line of thinking not raising the contrast as high as 50 is a happy medium.
post #1507 of 5267
Directv now offers 1080p service. I received a message when I attempted to configure it that my 141 does not have the ability to receive 1080p programming.
Is this true?
post #1508 of 5267
MrRobusto, your 141 is a 1080p display and therefore should have no issue receiving this type of programming.
post #1509 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

I see no difference in performance between the 141 and the 151.

umr how close is the 141/151 to the 150 or the 8G? I for one am not surprised that there isn't any difference between the 141 and 151. They probably use the same core hardware. However given that the 9G came out so close to the 8G, I'm curious how much things had improved.
post #1510 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by av.pallino View Post

umr how close is the 141/151 to the 150 or the 8G? I for one am not surprised that there isn't any difference between the 141 and 151. They probably use the same core hardware. However given that the 9G came out so close to the 8G, I'm curious how much things had improved.

Things have improved quite a bit from the 8G to the 9G. Blacks, color performance and video processing are significantly better. I personally plan to buy a 151 in a month or two because I am so impressed. The odds of something this good coming along again are not great in my opinion.
post #1511 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie View Post

I would agree with you if I didn't know that previously he posted a comment to that effect. I recall him saying that there would be no visible improvement in the picture of 141 than what can already be accomplished in 151. Jeff, correct me if I am putting words in your mouth

Yes I can understand why umr says there is no visible/performance improvement to him. And more than likely to most users of the 141. However there is a difference between the 151 and the 141. Turbe however could tell you what the differences are better than me, because he worked with Pioneer on some of the software/firmware of the 141.
I am not trying to split hairs, but just set the record strait.

Peter.
post #1512 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

Things have improved quite a bit from the 8G to the 9G. Blacks, color performance and video processing are significantly better. I personally plan to buy a 151 in a month or two because I am so impressed. The odds of something this good coming along again are not great in my opinion.

umr...................Do you see any real (world) benefits with the additional video management of the 141? If so, in what way?

Thanks!
post #1513 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrannison View Post

umr...................Do you see any real (world) benefits with the additional video management of the 141? If so, in what way?

Thanks!

No. If I did I would probably buy a 141 instead of the 151 I am going to buy.
post #1514 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

However there is a difference between the 151 and the 141. Turbe however could tell you what the differences are better than me, because he worked with Pioneer on some of the software/firmware of the 141.
I am not trying to split hairs, but just set the record strait.

Peter.

That would be valuable to know!
post #1515 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

No. If I did I would probably buy a 141 instead of the 151 I am going to buy.


Thanks Jeff
post #1516 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrannison View Post

That would be valuable to know!

Here are some of the differences, but like I have already said Turbe is the guy that is much more qualified to give you the inside scoop.

The 141 breaks the gamma into 5 setting increments instead of 3 like the 151. The 141 also has an "all blue screen" feature that the 151 doesn't have.

First Range is 141, 2nd is 151
BRIGHTNESS: 0~120 vs 0~60
COLOR: 0~120 vs 0~60

R-HIGH: 0~120 vs 0~60
G-HIGH: 0~120 vs 0~60
B-HIGH: 0~120 vs 0~60
R-LOW: 0~120 vs 0~60
G-LOW: 0~120 vs 0~60
B-LOW: 0~120 vs 0~60

Link tp this post, see below.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post14642358
post #1517 of 5267
Kevin Miller came by yesterday and calibrated day and night mode on my 141. I like using the day mode on all my sources even at night time since it gives more punch on the image but still not nearly as punchy as my JVC 70 inch Dila Rear Projection was. But thats ok because there are trade offs with any TV tech , right? I dont miss screen grain and bad geometry.

Overall , im very happy with the 141. The controlcal software makes is very easy to dial in what needs to be set and what needs to be changed. I definitely like the overall improvement in the picture. Improved grayscal and color were the biggest improvements i saw with my 141.
post #1518 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Here are some of the differences, but like I have already said Turbe is the guy that is much more qualified to give you the inside scoop.

The 141 breaks the gamma into 5 setting increments instead of 3 like the 151. The 141 also has an "all blue screen" feature that the 151 doesn't have.

First Range is 141, 2nd is 151
BRIGHTNESS: 0~120 vs 0~60
COLOR: 0~120 vs 0~60

R-HIGH: 0~120 vs 0~60
G-HIGH: 0~120 vs 0~60
B-HIGH: 0~120 vs 0~60
R-LOW: 0~120 vs 0~60
G-LOW: 0~120 vs 0~60
B-LOW: 0~120 vs 0~60

Link tp this post, see below.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post14642358

Thanks for the reference
post #1519 of 5267
Does anyone else find that pioneers 72 hz judder removal doesnt work well? I still see judder on panning left to right , or right to left scenes.
post #1520 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post

Does anyone else find that pioneers 72 hz judder removal doesnt work well? I still see judder on panning left to right , or right to left scenes.

Are you sure that is judder or is it in the film source? Film will smear, show jerkiness and otherwise show artifacts in many cases in pans.
post #1521 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post

Kevin Miller came by yesterday and calibrated day and night mode on my 141. I like using the day mode on all my sources even at night time since it gives more punch on the image but still not nearly as punchy as my JVC 70 inch Dila Rear Projection was. But thats ok because there are trade offs with any TV tech , right? I dont miss screen grain and bad geometry.

Overall , im very happy with the 141. The controlcal software makes is very easy to dial in what needs to be set and what needs to be changed. I definitely like the overall improvement in the picture. Improved grayscal and color were the biggest improvements i saw with my 141.

If you can write more about Kevin's calibration and what differences you have noticed, I'd like to include your report in the flat panel (Post#2) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.
post #1522 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

If you can write more about Kevin's calibration and what differences you have noticed, I'd like to include your report in the flat panel (Page#2) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.

Improved grayscale and color were the biggest improvements i saw with my 141 with his calibration.
post #1523 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post

Improved grayscale and color were the biggest improvements i saw with my 141 with his calibration.

Thanks. Sorry to be a pest, but can you edit that comment into your original post. Normally I link to one post.
post #1524 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Thanks. Sorry to be a pest, but can you edit that comment into your original post. Normally I link to one post.

Htwaits , i did quote from my original post. Its the last sentence i wrote. Or am i not understanding you correctly.
post #1525 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post

Htwaits , i did quote from my original post. Its the last sentence i wrote. Or am i not understanding you correctly.

I missed that.

Thanks.
post #1526 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post

Kevin Miller came by yesterday and calibrated day and night mode on my 141.

Thanks for the report. I've added it to the flat panel (Post#2) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.

post #1527 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Yes I can understand why umr says there is no visible/performance improvement to him. And more than likely to most users of the 141. However there is a difference between the 151 and the 141. Turbe however could tell you what the differences are better than me, because he worked with Pioneer on some of the software/firmware of the 141.
I am not trying to split hairs, but just set the record strait.

Peter.

Are these software differences enhancements to core processing algorithms or what is exposed through the GUI.

If it's a GUI enhancement, getting into the service menu should allow you to get the exact results.

As for video processing. These are usually programmed into the chip and unless the video processing chips are different we'll get the same results. I doubt Pioneer used a different video processing chip on the 141. It's more likely the 141 is their higher margin product (i.e. less cost same to higher price) with some marketing to make it more palatable. The slightly thinner profile is also a nice feature.

I also like the downward facing connectors on the 141.
post #1528 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post

Improved grayscale and color were the biggest improvements i saw with my 141 with his calibration.

Ditto my results with Kevin Miller on my 151.
post #1529 of 5267
Kevins Controlcal software was being buggy when doing my Calibration. With the PS3 as my bluray player , using the software it showed that i was clipping white at any contrast setting. But not using the software we can easily see that my PS3 did not clip white. Very weird!!!


I have a copy of controlcal and still am waiting for my usb to serial adapter. Once i get that ill check out what changes he exactly made. I might turn the sharpness up since i didnt notice edge enhancement by my eye until it was at -8 , and Kevin likes it at -13.
post #1530 of 5267
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post

I might turn the sharpness up since i didnt notice edge enhancement by my eye until it was at -8 , and Kevin likes it at -13.

Good point here baddgsx. I specifically mentioned to Kevin that I think most people are too conservative with their sharpness settings. Yes, you can clearly see some ringing on test patterns when the sharpness is set to "0", where I like it.

But I challenged Kevin to find any artifacts such as edge enhancement on normal programming or BD material. We looked and didn't find it on the material we saw...even at closer than normal viewing distances. I almost never see any evidence of these issues that are the result of a setting of '0'. But hey, each to his own.

An important point here is that Pioneer's implementation of 'sharpness' on these panels is much more conservative than many other manufacturers. Going from a minimum setting (or a -13 setting) to 'midpoint' on many other panels will bring about a far greater change in apparent sharpness and some nasty EE.

So I think Pioneer was wise to keep these adjustments conservative.
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