Signature Elite 141 Owners Thread - Page 110

Yeah I know this. Nice try.

But not in this case. Copies will always reveal very subtle differences somewhere in the product or at least in the packaging, like poorer quality printing on the box. This is the real McCoy down to the slanted shaped box that closes with the two velcro buttons and the imprinted MSERIES black velour cable holder. You can see that there is Monster writing on the jacket of the cable under the tech-flex mesh. Plus I seriously doubt that there is a large enough market to bother making fake Monster HDMI cables. The items that are counterfeit copies are high demand items such as watches for example.

Your "chap in Hong Kong" seems to be making money at $22.00 (minus EBay fees) per order delivered. There are a lot of possibilities to explain how he's doing that, but we're off topic.

I thought that I had. Sorry. Yes I would be using an Eye One Pro...

It's not so much the steps for each value. The ISF modes use different base templates, so the values don't matter. There is no way (that I know) to extrapolate settings for any of the ISF modes, into settings that will produce similar results for Pure (or any of the other A/V modes).


Pretty much. There could be some slight variation, but I suspect it would be irrelevant.

Yes you should avoid the display2/lt. Think about it like this, the red push is wrong for the pioneer sets. If you set the grey wrong then you set your color /tint wrong then you set your cms wrong you end up way out in left field. Take it from me I have done it on a 150fd. I pm'd D-NICE about my problems calibrating the set and he explained the reason to only use the one eye pro or chroma 5. I have a NIST certified chroma 5. The certified ones just come out a couple months ago. At one time the chroma 5 was not as good as the one eye pro because there was no certification and the +/- drift was too great. Now that they are certified they are just as good as the one eye pro, for about a year that is. They must be sent back once a year to be recalibrated.
For your question about the pure mode settings they are really close to the isf night mode on my set. You can get away with doing that. Every set is different though. My settings are totally different that sillysally. Here is a link to my settings to show just how different the the settings can be.

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=258

Thanks for the explanation. Though I'm not exactly sure what the "templates" are, I won't bother trying to use ISF settings for my Pure mode.


That's what I assumed, but wanted a second opinion - thanks!

The reason I ask is that way I could start off with HDMI #4/Pure mode with settings "A". I could then switch to HDMI #3/Pure mode and use input settings "B", such as the latest and greatest from SS. That way I could do an A-B comparison to see which settings (A or B) were best for my environment. In lieu of unplugging/replugging an HDMI cable to do the testing, I should consider an HDMI splitter so that I can just use the 141 remote's input buttons and instantly compare the differences.

FWIW, I have connected cables to all four HDMI inputs on my 141. Two of them are continuous cables from the Onkyo output all the way to the 141 inputs (HDMI #3 and #4). Only HDMI #4 is used at this time, the other cable is sitting unused behind the AV rack. The other two inputs (HDMI #1 and #2), if used, would be connected with three (yes, three) HDMI cables and upper/lower HDMI wall plates:

Onkyo => HDMI cable => lower wall plate => in-wall HDMI cable => upper wall plate => HDMI cable => Pioneer (old Hitachi)

This chain was used with my old Hitachi TV, but I was seeing dropouts/sparkles onscreen. I suspected that these six points of connections was most likely the culprit. So before wall-mounting the Pioneer, I ran the two new HDMI cables as continuous lengths, and just left the old wall plates/HDMI cables for future uses, such as an Xbox 360 that we'll eventually buy. I have only used HDMI #1 for running the break in disc via my HD-A35, and I haven't done any critical viewing on this input to see if the dropouts/sparkles also appear on the 141.


Thanks - I'll try yours and SS's settings over the weekend to see how they work for me. And yes, I understand that these settings were tailored to your respective room environments. Though I'm bummed that I'll need to spend a bit more to get the proper calibration sensor. Oh well, it helps the economy, right?

Oh, sorry. They are the factory baseline settings built into each mode, that determine the character of that particular mode.

Yea - the ISF settings are based on the ISF template and are really only good for them.



That would work nicely!


Dropouts/sparkles are definately an HDMI problem. As you suspected, I think you have a few too many connections and/or you cables may be too long overall and/or one or more of them may not be up to spec.



I'd suggest you contact Turbe, get ControlCAL and it's profiles/cable/adapter/etc and input the ISF settings from SS. You may just be MORE than satisfied with that

Exactly my thoughts. The in-wall cables are BJC Series 2 (original), 24 ga, silver-plated (4' IIRC), the two external cables are Monoprice 28 ga (3' @ TV end, 6' @ amp end). Wall plates are MP dual-HDMI, with the built-in stress relief. Too many connections, too many opportunities for signal loss/degradation.

FWIW, my new continuous-length cable is the 24ga flat style from Monoprice. With the fairly tight quarters for the rear panel connectors when wall mounted, the flat cables worked just fine in terms of flexibility for making the U-turn up to the wall scoop. Luckily the 10-foot length was just right for the final install. No dropouts/sparkles that I can see so far.

FWIWx2, the attached pix shows the "swiss-cheesed" wall before the TV was mounted - ignore the crazy mess, it looks much better now! :

Above the mount has the following, from left to right:
wall scoop w/ two 10' flat HDMIs hanging out;
PowerBridge Duo outlet (switched from AVR for bias light);
PowerBridge Single outlet (constant power to TV, you can see the lonely 141 cord dangling);
two-gang wallplate with component (left) and dual HDMI (right)

Below the mount (near floor) has the following, left to right:
Single-gang box (top cut off, low voltage cables only!) for the two flat HDMI cables and one pair surround speakers wiring;
PowerBridge outlet wired to Duo above (plugged into AVR switched outlet);
PowerBridge outlet wired to Single above (for TV, plugged into Panamax);
main wall outlet (Panamax plugs in here);
two-gang wallplate (component/HDMIs);
single-gang cable outlet.

You can see my 141 connection template taped right below the wall mount. This helped me know which HDMI cable would go to what connection #, so that I could get my Harmony One pre-programmed... hm, I might have been a bit obsessive to get it all 100% perfect...


You bet! I'm looking forward to see just far the 141 will go...

Pioneer 9G Elite Monitor 141 ISF-Night Settings.
I used a Oppo BDP-83 for these settings
Oppo Setup for Blu Ray films 1080P@24
Picture Adjustemnt-Default
Primary Output-HDMI
TV Aspect Ratio-16:9 Wide
TV System-NTSC
Output Resolution-Source Direct or Auto
1080p24 Output-On
DVD 24p Conversion-Off
HDMI Options-Film Bias Mode or Auto, Cue corection Off,
Color Space YCbCr 4:2:2, Deep Color Off, Demmo Mode Off,
A/V Sync 0

Oppo setup for SD Films (480i) with these settings.
Output Resolution-Auto
All the rest of the Oppo setup settings are the same as above.



Picture Settings:
AV Selection: ISF-Night
Contrast: 24
Brightness:-1
Color: +4
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -9

Pure Cinema: 2 (Advance)
Black Level: 0 (Off)
CTI: 0 (Off)
Color Space: 2
Color Temp: 6 (Manual)
Screen size 0 (Dot By Dot)

ACL: 0 (Off)
3DYC: 2
I-P Mode: 2
Text Optimization: 0 (Off)
Intelligent Mode: 0 (Off)
DRE Picture: 0 (Off)

Enhancer Mode: 2
Block NR: 0 (Off)
3DNR: 0 (Off)
Field NR: 0 (Off)
Mosquito NR: 0 (Off)

Power Save Mode: Off/Standard
Orbiter: Mode 0 or you can turn on

RGB Controls
R High:+2
G High: 0
B High:+16
R Low: -1
G Low: 0
B Low: -1

Color Management
R: 0
Y: +1
G: 0
C: 0
B: 0
M: -2

Gamma
10%R 0
10%G 0
10%B 0
20%R 0
20%G 0
20%B 0
30%R 0
30%G 0
30%B 0
40%R 0
40%G 0
40%B 0
50%R 0
50%G 0
50%B 0
60%R 0
60%G 0
60%B 0
70%R 0
70%G 0
70%B 0
80%R 0
80%G 0
80%B 0
90%R 0
90%G 0
90%B 0

Template by D-Nice

 

BD83141SS.pdf 168.3291015625k . file

Please try the above setting first for any BD player.

Thanks.

ss

SillySally, what are your thoughts on the 83 compared to the 09 via picture quality on the 141?


Thanx, Chris

Bottom line. The BD-09 has a more processed picture (cleaner) and the BD-83 has a more natural picture, better persevering of how the BD/SD was mastered.

If you look at how I have set up both the BD-83 and BD-09,
you will see I have set my settings very neutral for the BD-83, and use a little more sharper setting for the BD-09.

ss

Are these settings for when you enter ISF mode or can these be set in the normal picture settings mode? If not, how do you get into the ISF mode?

I just got my 141 3 days ago. Should I not play with the setting for a while or should I make changes now?

I also just received my BD-83 yesterday. Its stil in the box.
Thanks,
Steve

Peter,

With sharpness at -9 for the -83 settings, isn't that "sharper" than the -15 used in the -09 settings?

It also looks like the B-High is up a few extra clicks, too.

That's where I am getting slightly confused. I am under the impression that the best way to set contrast (for any mode) was to dial it all the way down to -15 and to set Enhancer mode = 1.

Perhaps his settings of Contrast = -9 and Enhancer mode = 2 is giving some level of granularity slightly different (better?).

Peter?

Why not leave the RS232 cable permanently connected, and access only when needed? Though I don't have ControlCal yet, I connected my six foot RS232 cable before wall mounting my 141, and leave it coiled up behind the TV, hanging from the right mounting arm. I can't see it unless my head is basically against the wall looking behind the TV.

Of course, with my wall mount (Peerless OneMount tilting style, with a few inches of space between TV and wall) I can easily reach behind to pull out the cable. I'm not sure you have that same luxury, in terms of adequate space between your TV and wall. IIRC, yours is on the brick wall, fairly snug?

That's exactly what I do

Of course it took me two times (of excruciating pain & frustration) connecting it up to realize that

Van - went back to your OP and refreshed my memory of your installation. You definitely have way less space behind your 141! But hopefully you can figure something out...

Late off-topic note here (I am late to the 141 owners club!), but like others have mentioned - you have a beautiful home (I've always loved the look of exposed brick) and incredible view! I used to live in DT Seattle with a great view of Mt. Rainier, Elliott Bay and the Olympic mountains, so I know how you feel looking out your windows. I've driven thru Vancouver a million times, mostly on my way up to Whistler, and Vancouver is one of my favorite cities that I've ever visited - it's absolutely beautiful up there...

Congrats, you have made two very good choices. You must have been doing your homework.

If you want to use my settings then you must get a copy of Controlcal to enter the ISF mode of your 141.
I only use my ISF modes on my 141. The reason is simply, the ISF modes bring the best out in our great display.

You should be careful on what you view. No side/top bars, no static images for at least the first 150 hours.
There is a very good break-in link that I will include below. The settings and info where done by D-Nice. He is a very good ISF pro calibrator, and also one of my mentors.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post14384866

You can use my settings for your BD-83 now, if you want. You can also use my ISF settings for your 141 at any time. But please keep in mind my ISF settings are not break-in settings.

ss

You should look at the whole report and settings. With the BD-83, I am now using Enhancer mode 2 (neutral). As before in other settings with other players like the BD-09, I used Enhancer mode 1 (hard). So by going from Enhancer mode 1(hard) to Enhancer mode 2 (neutral) I needed to change the sharpness setting from -15 to -9. There by maximizing the clarity and minimizing any other bad affect caused by too sharp of a picture.

As far as the Blue high being higher than you might think it should be, I actually kept it lower than some 141 may be set at.
And if you look at my calibration for the Kuro 101 the Blue high is very low.
So what I am saying is not all displays are the same. That"s why there is no substitute for a Hands on ISF Calibration.
The settings you don't want to change is the Green High/Low. And also the 9pt gamma settings.

But please ask if you don't understand something. Its the only way we will get better.

btw. Feel free to play with the blue High setting, I don't think you will mess anything up. Blue is the least problematic color to change, in most cases.

Sorry I see you did pick up on the mode 1 and 2 trick.

ss

imo, the best way to go with the BD-83 is keep things as neutral as possible for HD source material. This is the real strength of this BD player for HD 1080p@24 and the Kuro 141. If you come from a Pioneer BD-09 player and then view a BD-83 the PQ may not look at first to be right. Probably what you will think is that the BD-09 has a cleaner picture less background noise and maybe clearer. And imo you are right.
However what you will not see, is a more true to life picture the way that the BD was mastered, when using the BD-09.

And it is for the reasons above why It took me extra time to do this ISF calibration. Plus tiring different power cords and HDMI cables.

And I will add for all you "scientists" out there. I setup the BD-83 using my neutral ISF settings before I calibrated. Those settings were provided by UMR and his very expensive meters and source generator, specially for my 141 . So I guess we all owe him a big thank you for his help.
So to all the "scientists" I hope you can see I really do try to cover all my bases, and try to add to the "science" side of Video and Audio.

ss

Thanks SillySally for that indepth review of a calibrated oppo vs a calibrated 09 on the 141. Much appreciated!! Im going to keep the 09, although theres the panasonics players that make me wonder about chroma resolution. I guess someone said that they produce it better than the 09. You think thats enough to be visible to the eye? or just the meters? im not sure how thats measured actually. Im sure youve thought about this too. Whats your take on it?

Thanx , Chris

What did you notice that was different between Enh=1/Cont=-15 and Enh=2/Cont=-9? I played around with that using the sharpness patterns on both S&M and DVE... Did you use one of these patterns to derive that setting?


I know... sigh. I am going to have to break down and get the meter & SW soon!!!!


Yea... took me a minute to digest the whole post though

Ah... I must have missed it when you first mentioned that Jeff calibrated your display One of the things that D-Nice had said was that the PS-3 and the BDP-83 were "neutral" players. So, my thought was to use them to get my baseline reference (seeing as though I don't have thousands of dollars worth of pattern generators, meters,etc.). That said - how different were the -83 settings from your "neutral ISF" settings?

I can't say anything about the new panny players, because I don't have one. I did have a panny BD-55 and BD-30 however.

I don't think the chroma issue, if in fact there is a issue, will make much of a difference.
The BD-09 is a great player. It just depends on what you want from a player.

Bottom line. Forget about the panny. If you want something new then get the Oppo.