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Signature Elite 141 Owners Thread - Page 131

post #3901 of 5242
9/25/09 at 4:34pm
Hey all, excuse me for going off ownership issues a bit, but I was wondering if anyone had leads for where to pick up a 141 or even 151 in SoCal. I had a good price on a 141 from a forum sponsor, but after the second cracked panel showed up today, they don't want to ship another one to me.

Still hoping to join the thread as an owner. Thanks.
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post #3902 of 5242
9/26/09 at 6:49am
Interesting... I've never seen the gamma #'s more than +/- 2, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mak99 View Post

Please do not repost these setting, thanks.

ISF - Night calibrated settings

Pioneer 9G Elite Monitor 141 / ISF-Night Settings
Pioneer BDP-51FD (fw 1.32), 1080p/24, same video settings as PURE mode above

Per Sillysally’s reminders, you will need ControlCAL to unlock ISF Modes. I have listed the items below in order shown via ControlCAL’s data: Profile 1 (P1), then Profile 2 (P2) values - left column (LC) first, then right column (RC):

AV Selection: ISF-Night
(P1/LC)
Contrast: 24
Brightness: -1
Sharpness: -9

Color MGMT R: 0
Color MGMT Y: 0
Color MGMT G: 0

Color MGMT C: 0
Color MGMT B: 0
Color MGMT M: 0

(P1/RC)
Color: +6
Tint: +4
Color Temp: 6 (manual)

R-High (Drive): -11
G-High (Drive): -8
B-High (Drive): 0

R-Low (Cutoff): -1
G-Low (Cutoff): 0
B-Low (Cutoff): -1


(P2/LC)
Black level: 0 (off)
Color space: 2

ACL: 0 (off)
I-P mode: 2
Intelligent mode: 0 (off)

Enhancer mode: 1 (hard)
Block NR: 0 (off)
Field NR: 0 (off)

(P2/RC)
Pure Cinema: 2 (Advanced)
CTI: 0 (off)
Color temp: 6 (manual)

3DYC: 2
Text optimization: 0 (off)
DRE picture: 0 (off)

Screen size: 0 (Dot by Dot)
3DNR: 0 (off)
Mosquito NR: 0 (off)

Gamma points:
10% R: -5
10% G: -5
10% B: -5
20% R: -5
20% G: -5
20% B: -5
30% R: -5
30% G: -5
30% B: -5
40% R: -5
40% G: -5
40% B: -5
50% R: -5
50% G: -5
50% B: -5
60% R: -5
60% G: -5
60% B: -5
70% R: -5
70% G: -5
70% B: -5
80% R: -5
80% G: -5
80% B: -5
90% R: -5
90% G: -5
90% B: -5

^^ I never noticed these “-5” Gamma values until I downloaded the data last night. I don't recall seeing any other calibration postings showing something similar...
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post #3903 of 5242
9/26/09 at 8:39am
I have never seen green high numbers that low either. Most I have ever seen are +-1. Maybe SillySally can chime in.
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post #3904 of 5242
9/26/09 at 9:09am
I missed the green #'s... wow, yea - they are very high. It's generally advisable to NOT mess with green, unless you absolutely have to. And, then - only very minimal tweaks.

I also have sharpness = -9, however, that is with Enhancer =2. There's another puzzling combination of settings.
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post #3905 of 5242
9/26/09 at 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

I also have sharpness = -9, however, that is with Enhancer =2. There's another puzzling combination of settings.

I run with edge enhancement (sharpness) at -10 with blur (enhancer) off.

Sometimes I wonder what the video chain is with some calibrations. I have a complete set of VP controls in my Blu-ray, AVR and monitor. It can be difficult to discern the neutral setting.
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post #3906 of 5242
9/26/09 at 11:29am
Enhancer mode = 0?
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post #3907 of 5242
9/26/09 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

Interesting... I've never seen the gamma #'s more than +/- 2, either.

I'll double-check the #s sometime this weekend, in case I just plain misread some of the values.

But to be clear, the picture does look great to me. Regarding the comments about the green values being so far from "0", how would that affect the picture? Would there be an excessive greenish tint, not enough greenish tint, or...?

I can always fire up my ControlCAL and make adjustments to the ISF settings, and I can always go back to Michael's values anytime. This is where I'm considering an HDMI splitter so that I can take the output from the Onkyo and send the signal along two HDMI cables into my 141. That way I could leave HDMI 4 ISF settings untouched with Michael's calibration, then use HDMI 3 to make adjustments like I mention above to see if there's a visible difference.

I see Monoprice has a few 1x2 HDMI splitters - any recommendations?
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post #3908 of 5242
9/26/09 at 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mak99 View Post

any recommendations?

The 402E (item 5312) is known to work well. I have one.
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post #3909 of 5242
9/26/09 at 5:32pm
Damn, after only 20 hours my 141FD went dark. I tried power cycling and nothing. I see a red flashing power light 2 flashes then a pause and this just repeats. local store has no replacement in stock so it looks like I'll be giving up watching my favorite shows for a while.

Anyone with suggestions?
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post #3910 of 5242
9/26/09 at 5:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfelbab View Post

I see a red flashing power light 2 flashes then a pause and this just repeats.

It needs to be repaired.
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post #3911 of 5242
9/26/09 at 5:42pm
Part of the problem with those settings is the source generator, it is a PIO BD-51. I had fits tiring to get (luminance) my settings right using that BD player ( 1 of the discs I use is DVE HD Basics for gray scale).
However I thought that the crush problem was fixed with the later firmware.

And yes with my ISF settings that I came up with before the firmware fix with my PIO BD-51, I used the 9 pt gamma and green. However that was with my 8G pro not my 141. And after D-Nice and UMR took my under there wings, I never used H/L green or 9pt gamma in ISF modes.

From looking at the before pure mode charts, the Green Gamma line is nice and flat from 10% to 100% IRE. So in my mind all that has to happen is first you drop Blue high by about 4 points and then retake your readings and fine tune your H/L Red and Blue.

Please understand that this is just speculation on my part.

In closing, I am sure that the calibrator had his reasons for doing what he did. and as the owner said "But to be clear, the picture does look great to me"

ss
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post #3912 of 5242
9/26/09 at 5:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mak99 View Post


I see Monoprice has a few 1x2 HDMI splitters - any recommendations?

Yes, stay away from splitters. The best way to go is with the fewest brakes in your HDMI 1.3 cable.

And you may want to look at a Oppo BD-83 or a PIO BD-09.
I like the Oppo better but the PIO-09 has two HDMI out ports.

Also make sure your A/V is set to pass through your video.

ss
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post #3913 of 5242
9/26/09 at 6:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfelbab View Post

Damn, after only 20 hours my 141FD went dark. I tried power cycling and nothing. I see a red flashing power light 2 flashes then a pause and this just repeats. local store has no replacement in stock so it looks like I'll be giving up watching my favorite shows for a while.

Anyone with suggestions?

As has already been said, It needs repairs.

You could try and unplug your 141 from your power source over night and then hold the power button in for about five seconds, then plug back in. I don't think that this will help, but at this point what do you have to loose.

ss
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post #3914 of 5242
9/26/09 at 6:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mak99 View Post

I'll double-check the #s sometime this weekend, in case I just plain misread some of the values.

But to be clear, the picture does look great to me. Regarding the comments about the green values being so far from "0", how would that affect the picture? Would there be an excessive greenish tint, not enough greenish tint, or...?

I can always fire up my ControlCAL and make adjustments to the ISF settings, and I can always go back to Michael's values anytime. This is where I'm considering an HDMI splitter so that I can take the output from the Onkyo and send the signal along two HDMI cables into my 141. That way I could leave HDMI 4 ISF settings untouched with Michael's calibration, then use HDMI 3 to make adjustments like I mention above to see if there's a visible difference.

I see Monoprice has a few 1x2 HDMI splitters - any recommendations?

As SillySally said, I'm sure your calibrator had good reasons to make those settings. If the picture looks great, I wouldn't worry about it.

You really can't "eyeball" those things with any degree of accuracy. You do need to instrument and measure. But, since you know what the settings are, there is no harm with playing around. You can always go back to the settings that your calibrator left you with.

A good HDMI splitter won't do much harm, if any to PQ. But, if you are just using it to A/B settings - that seems like a waste. It would be easier to use, for example, ISF Day as the comparison. Just make sure you correctly write down the values in ISF Day, then input your Night settings and tweak them. You can now flip between ISF Day and ISF Night and see the comparison. There is nothing different between the ISF Day and Night memories, other than the name.
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post #3915 of 5242
9/27/09 at 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

There is nothing different between the ISF Day and Night memories, other than the name.

I thought there was a difference in their baselines? I believe I read this on one of the many Pio threads here (or possibly ControlCAL forum), and it might have been D-Nice who said it. It's been a while, so I could be mistaken.

Can anyone confirm this?
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post #3916 of 5242
9/27/09 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

As has already been said, It needs repairs.

You could try and unplug your 141 from your power source over night and then hold the power button in for about five seconds, then plug back in. I don't think that this will help, but at this point what do you have to loose.

ss

I had a similar situation with my 111. I had blinking red light but I don't recall if it was constant blinking or not. Unplugged it and plugged it back in. It's been working for at least 12 hours now. The next time it happens, I'll be calling Pioneer.
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post #3917 of 5242
9/27/09 at 5:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mak99 View Post

I thought there was a difference in their baselines? I believe I read this on one of the many Pio threads here (or possibly ControlCAL forum), and it might have been D-Nice who said it. It's been a while, so I could be mistaken.

Can anyone confirm this?

I believe D-Nice's comment was around different templates between the factory modes (Pure, Movie, etc.) and the ISF modes.

I'll defer to others on this, but afaik the ISF modes are built around the same template - except ISF-Auto, which makes use of the external sensor(s). And, in fact, Auto may be, too... and accepts sensor input for dynamic adjustments.
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post #3918 of 5242
9/27/09 at 5:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

As SillySally said, I'm sure your calibrator had good reasons to make those settings. If the picture looks great, I wouldn't worry about it.

You really can't "eyeball" those things with any degree of accuracy. You do need to instrument and measure. But, since you know what the settings are, there is no harm with playing around. You can always go back to the settings that your calibrator left you with.

A good HDMI splitter won't do much harm, if any to PQ. But, if you are just using it to A/B settings - that seems like a waste. It would be easier to use, for example, ISF Day as the comparison. Just make sure you correctly write down the values in ISF Day, then input your Night settings and tweak them. You can now flip between ISF Day and ISF Night and see the comparison.

Quote:


There is nothing different between the ISF Day and Night memories, other than the name

.

You are 100% correct. No difference.

ss
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post #3919 of 5242
9/27/09 at 6:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

You are 100% correct. No difference.

ss

Thanks for the confirmation Peter... I was beginning to wonder if I had stored that information in brain cells, previously damaged by excessive use of controlled substances

BTW... just did a "touch up" calibration at 1100 hours. During that, I tried Enhancer=2/Sharpness=9... love it!!! Everything else was still "too close to tweak". It'll be interesting to see how it looks at 1500 hours.
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post #3920 of 5242
9/27/09 at 8:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

I believe D-Nice's comment was around different templates between the factory modes (Pure, Movie, etc.) and the ISF modes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

You are 100% correct. No difference.

Baseline, templates - I was close!

Thanks for the confirmation, maybe I'll try some adjustments later this week, and just keep the calibrated ISF-Day values untouched.
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post #3921 of 5242
9/27/09 at 9:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mak99 View Post

Baseline, templates - I was close!

The ISF Day/Night thing is a very common misunderstand. I have been ask that question many many times.

ss
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post #3922 of 5242
9/28/09 at 4:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

I have been ask that question many many times.

Perhaps there should be a Pioneer tech FAQ.

Of course non-KRP monitor owners can take some advantage of the KRP FAQ which happens to have the answer to this question.
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post #3923 of 5242
9/28/09 at 2:16pm
Generally speaking, how does the price of a "touch up" isf calibration on the 141fd compare with the cost of the initial isf calibration? Just curious about whether it would be cheaper with possibly less to to be done during the follow up calibrations.
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post #3924 of 5242
9/28/09 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrish View Post

Generally speaking, how does the price of a "touch up" isf calibration on the 141fd compare with the cost of the initial isf calibration? Just curious about whether it would be cheaper with possibly less to to be done during the follow up calibrations.

it should be 50% or less of the orginal calibration cost.
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post #3925 of 5242
9/28/09 at 4:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

it should be 50% or less of the orginal calibration cost.

D-Nice, have you ever adjusted the green high down as far as the couple posts above? You have looked at my greyscale over on controlcal site and after tweaking it is
R High -8
G High 0
B High +11
R Low 0
G Low 0
B Low 0
These settings are right for my set but Sillysally has helped me with not lowering the red so much, If I try to raise the blue higher and not lower the red the green is too low. Is this the way it should be?
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post #3926 of 5242
9/28/09 at 4:51pm
Hey guys,

i'm about to order one of these Pio 141s and i was wondering how high on my wall should the Pio be hung?

i have a 50 inch fujitsu that is hanging roughly 3 ft from the floor. if i were to centre the Pio around the same midpoint, the Pio (being larger) would hang closer to the floor, correct?

how high have you guys hung yr Pio 141s?

thanks in advance for taking the time to reply.

CMM.
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post #3927 of 5242
9/28/09 at 4:56pm
I do not push the Green High/Low controls beyond +/- 2 on the SIgnature Series. As far as your settings below, where are your charts for these settings? They look fine, but I need to see the raw measurements behind them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madkaw View Post

D-Nice, have you ever adjusted the green high down as far as the couple posts above? You have looked at my greyscale over on controlcal site and after tweaking it is
R High -8
G High 0
B High +11
R Low 0
G Low 0
B Low 0
These settings are right for my set but Sillysally has helped me with not lowering the red so much, If I try to raise the blue higher and not lower the red the green is too low. Is this the way it should be?
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post #3928 of 5242
9/28/09 at 7:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by galve2000 View Post

Hey guys,

i'm about to order one of these Pio 141s and i was wondering how high on my wall should the Pio be hung?

i have a 50 inch fujitsu that is hanging roughly 3 ft from the floor. if i were to centre the Pio around the same midpoint, the Pio (being larger) would hang closer to the floor, correct?

how high have you guys hung yr Pio 141s?

thanks in advance for taking the time to reply.

CMM.

Mine is 27" from the floor. Looks perfect to my eyes at 11 feet away.
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post #3929 of 5242
9/29/09 at 11:24am
can anyone tell me how thick the frame around the actual plasma screen of the Pio 141is?

my centre speaker (B&W HTM2 or 3 -- havnt decided yet) is 13 inches tall and i am shopping around for an A/V stand that would make everything "fit"

i am looking at A/V stands that are fairly short -- most are either 20 or 22 ft tall. ideally i would like to find something that can fit the center speaker inside the A/V stand rather than above it -- buit this speaker is so large that thsi is proving impossible. so i am left with no choice but to place it above my AV stand.

i wanted to hang my Pio 141 around 30 inches from the ground -- Vancouver has already mentioned that he hangs his 27 inches from the ground, which sounds pretty ideal and is certainly helpful -- but i dont have enough room for that.

if i hang my Pio 30 inches from the ground, and get a 20 inch stand, i am missing 2 inches. i dont mind if the treater covers the frame, but will be really annoyed if it covers part of plasma screen. also, i'm not sure 1 or 2 inches is enough of a margin for some of these sloppy HT guys. i will say however the last HT setup i did, things lined up EXACTLY where i hoped they would. but that last time around i micromanaged EVERYTHING and unfortunately do not have that kind of time these days. i may even have to have the plasma delivered and hanged while i am not around

god.. i need a drink!

do i raise my 141 further off the ground?
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post #3930 of 5242
9/29/09 at 1:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by galve2000 View Post

can anyone tell me how thick the frame around the actual plasma screen of the Pio 141is?

The 141 "CAD" drawings have all the architectural dimensions.
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