Originally Posted by sircular
In contrast, if one were to trawl through the Pioneer Kuro discussions, it's the other side of the coin - quality and how to achieve visual perfection-cum-addiction. As such, it's a toss between domesticity and techno-voyuerism. In these hard-earned money times [or else there will few postings for those with large wallets seldom bother about trivial matters like costs - they pay their way thru the melee], deciding on how to value one's cash-pile can be a daunting proposition. Looking to buy a 65 Panny or a 60 Pioneer. Now, if only the Pioneer comes in a 65" size, the decision will be simple - meaning that to what degree of visual quality one must sacrifice to achieve the 65 size requirement. Yes, the black level/contrast is well known but what about other little nuances, like judder [and not so much phosphor lag which is inherent in plasmas] and other weaknesses that the Panasonic may-have/have. C'mon, you can do it, just forget about that stand for a moment. Let's hear about the visual merits when compared to the Pioneer Kuro. Afterall, you guys managed to land some people on the moon without having to talk about the carpeting and similar distractions.
I examined the Panny and Pioneer Elite in a darkened room in a Tweeter Store. I chose the Panny and here's some strengths and weaknesses I saw.
Weaknesses of the 65-
-Doesn't handle 1080p/24 without flicker in 48hz mode. Switch to 60hz and no flicker but apparently you get judder which I can't for the life of me see so I'm not gonna look too hard for it.
-Blacks are not as good, but I don't notice this without the Pioneer beside it to compare the two.
-Color handling is comparable to the Pioneer in my observation and most reviews I have read.
-Overall the Panny looked brighter than the Pioneer. It seemed to me as if Pioneer obtains it's superior blacks by darkening the entire set.
-I got the 65 Panny for $500 less than the lowest price I have seen for the 60 Pioneer
-There is no "buzz" from the panel
I am no videophile and have been hesitant to post any review of the picture other than it looks amazing. Seems if you start to say the PQ is equal to, or comparable to, the Pioneer in any way you just get piled on by the Pioneer owners. Either you are obviously not very observant, you didn't put D-Nice's settings into the Pioneer, or any myriad of other reasons why you don't see what they do. I could not see a big enough difference in the PQ between the two to pay more for a smaller set.
Here is a review comparing the Pioneer Elite and the 850 series in the 50" size.HD Guru Review
I think it sums it up pretty well. If you look at the bottom it summarizes the comparison and it seems as though it's a pretty even split if you take away black levels and energy consumption. Is the Pioneer the best. Sure,
"Is it worth the extra dollars? That is up to you to decide." - from the HD Guru review