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Dish network installer - refused to ground dish/ant

post #1 of 37
Thread Starter 
I just had Dish Network come to my house to install a over the air antenna (since they don't get local channels in HD in my area) and the dish. He didn't ground either. I told him that I wanted them grounded as they are being hooked up to a $12,000 home theater system. He told me that grounding was not needed, and that he's been doing it for 30 years and has never grounded anything and none of his customers have ever had any damage. He also told me that lightning comes UP from the ground, not down from the sky - which makes grounding pointless according to him.

He refused to ground them, and said there wouldn't be any problems. I am very scared about this. He also told me I am not able to run my coaxial cable through my surge protector/power conditioner and it MUST go straight to the receiver. I've never heard of this either.. I should be able to surge protect my coax cable lines?

Is this guy crazy, or is he right? I'm very close to calling dish and telling them that the guy refused to ground my equipment when he installed it.
post #2 of 37
He should be fired, fined and licence revoked (if he's licenced).

Call Dish and complain.

http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads.../ug/Safety.pdf
"Note to Satellite TV System Installer: This reminder is provided to call the satellite TV system installer’s attention to Article 820-40 of the National Electrical Code (NEC) that provides guidelines for proper grounding and, in particular, specifies that the cable ground shall be connected to the grounding system of the building as close to the point of cable entry as practical."
post #3 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post

I just had Dish Network come to my house to install a over the air antenna (since they don't get local channels in HD in my area) and the dish. He didn't ground either. I told him that I wanted them grounded as they are being hooked up to a $12,000 home theater system. He told me that grounding was not needed, and that he's been doing it for 30 years and has never grounded anything and none of his customers have ever had any damage. He also told me that lightning comes UP from the ground, not down from the sky - which makes grounding pointless according to him.

He refused to ground them, and said there wouldn't be any problems. I am very scared about this. He also told me I am not able to run my coaxial cable through my surge protector/power conditioner and it MUST go straight to the receiver. I've never heard of this either.. I should be able to surge protect my coax cable lines?

Is this guy crazy, or is he right? I'm very close to calling dish and telling them that the guy refused to ground my equipment when he installed it.

It's code that antennas (OTA and satellite) be grounded. In other words, he is required by law to ground his installations, whether the viewing equipment be a $12k HT system or a $100 13" TV set.

Article 810 (Radio and Television Equipment) sets out the standards for safety related to antenna systems. You'll find many similar references in 810 as you will to 820 (Community Antenna).

Article 810.15 starts our tour:

810.15 Grounding.
Masts and metal structures supporting antennas shall be grounded in accordance with 810.21.

...but before we get to 810.21, we have to stop at 810.20

810.20 Antenna Discharge Units Receiving Stations.
(A) Where Required. Each conductor of a lead-in from an outdoor antenna shall be provided with a listed antenna discharge unit.
Exception: Where the lead-in conductors are enclosed in a continuous metallic shield that either is permanently and effectively grounded or is protected by an antenna discharge unit.
(B) Location. Antenna discharge units shall be located outside the building or inside the building between the point of entrance of the lead-in and the radio set or transformers and as near as practicable to the entrance of the conductors to the building. The antenna discharge unit shall not be located near combustible material or in a hazardous (classified) location as defined in Article 500.
(C) Grounding. The antenna discharge unit shall be grounded in accordance with 810.21.

810.21 Grounding Conductors Receiving Stations.
Grounding conductors shall comply with 810.21(A) through (J).

(F) Electrode. The grounding conductor shall be connected as follows:
(1) To the nearest accessible location on the following:
a. The building or structure grounding electrode system as covered in 250.50
b. The grounded interior metal water piping systems, within 1.52 m (5ft) from its
point of entrance to the building, as covered in 250.52
See the commentary following 250.52(A)(1).
c. The power service accessible means external to the building, ascovered in 250.94
d. The metallic power service raceway
e. The service equipment enclosure, or
f. The grounding electrode conductor or the grounding electrode conductor metal
enclosures;

(J) Bonding of Electrodes. A bonding jumper not smaller than 6 AWG copper or equivalent shall be connected between the radio and television equipment grounding electrode and the power grounding electrode system at the building or structure served where separate electrodes are used.
post #4 of 37
This installer blatantly and knowingly violated code.

They should not be in this business.
post #5 of 37
Thread Starter 
I quoted the article to him and he got PISSED. He said he'll be here in 3 weeks since thats how long it is until hes back in this town.

His quote

Him: "I don't know why the hell you have to keep pushing this, I told you it was fine!"
Me: "Well, its law, and I fear for my safety and the safety of my equipment."
Him: "I won't be back in your town for 3 weeks so i'll do it then"
Me: "Thats fine"

Hes basically yelled that first line to me.

I am calling dish and reporting him for violating code and being rude to me.
post #6 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post

I quoted the article to him and he got PISSED. He said he'll be here in 3 weeks since thats how long it is until hes back in this town.

His quote

Him: "I don't know why the hell you have to keep pushing this, I told you it was fine!"
Me: "Well, its law, and I fear for my safety and the safety of my equipment."
Him: "I won't be back in your town for 3 weeks so i'll do it then"
Me: "Thats fine"

Hes basically yelled that first line to me.

I am calling dish and reporting him for violating code and being rude to me.

More people need to report installers who commit violations. Cumulatively, cable companies across the U.S. have been fined millions of dollars for grounding violations.
post #7 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post

I am calling dish and reporting him for violating code and being rude to me.

... and ask that your equipment be properly grounded ASAP. Don't wait.

You may also suggest that they investigate other installations performed by this joker. There could be 30 years worth of potential disasters because this contracter is downright wrong and lazy.
post #8 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

... and ask that your equipment be properly grounded ASAP. Don't wait.

You may also suggest that they investigate other installations performed by this joker. There could be 30 years worth of potential disasters because this contracter is downright wrong and lazy.

Yup I told them that I wanted a different guy to come out and inspect the previous installers work, and also ground my equipment.
post #9 of 37
i would have them come out the same day and do it. no way would i wait 3 weeks.
post #10 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post

I just had Dish Network come to my house to install a over the air antenna (since they don't get local channels in HD in my area) and the dish. He didn't ground either. I told him that I wanted them grounded as they are being hooked up to a $12,000 home theater system. He told me that grounding was not needed, and that he's been doing it for 30 years and has never grounded anything and none of his customers have ever had any damage. He also told me that lightning comes UP from the ground, not down from the sky - which makes grounding pointless according to him.

He refused to ground them, and said there wouldn't be any problems. I am very scared about this. He also told me I am not able to run my coaxial cable through my surge protector/power conditioner and it MUST go straight to the receiver. I've never heard of this either.. I should be able to surge protect my coax cable lines?

Is this guy crazy, or is he right? I'm very close to calling dish and telling them that the guy refused to ground my equipment when he installed it.

1) I would call the local city, county or whoever does your building codes. Tell them the story and have them come out. I suspect that someone's license will be revoked - or they will be heavily fined at most.

2) I would communicate with Dish and tell them that you have to disconnect the system until it is properly grounded by order of the (whatever) building inspector - and you do not want to be charged for anything until it is done properly, inspected and meets local codes. Tell them that the local building inspector has mandated this after the original job was done and you have 10 days to get it done or face fines. How do they want to handle it?

3) Copy #2 to ceo@dishnetwork.com
post #11 of 37
You should've told him you weren't going to sign off on the install until everything was grounded to NEC & local codes.
post #12 of 37
Thread Starter 
Soo my cable company's quality looked like crap on my HDTV, so I decided to go with dish, which is all digital and offers alot more HD channels.

I'm starting to think it was a huge mistake..

August 2:
I order dish via phone. $50 to install.

August 12:
I find out they don't offer local channels in HD. Requires me to spend $99.95 for antenna + install (Up to about $150 now).

August 28:
Dish arrives, installs my dish and antenna, and sets up my receiver. They put the worse ends i've seen on the coax cable. Signal was messing up when the guy was here, however he said he peaked the signal for the antenna and dish and the signal issue is because its still downloading data. He leaves. 2 Hours later 3 tips that he put on the coax cable have fallen off. I test the others and sure enough i'm able to pull them off with ease. I call him up and tell him I want him to come back with high quality ends and do the install right. I also tell him that by law he's required to ground my dish and antenna (which he didn't).

August 29:
He arrives again with the new tips for the coax cable which were the exact same thing. After he puts them all on I test them and make sure they won't come off. I manage to pull one off with ease, he says the tip must be bad (Sorry doesn't work like that...). Finally he manages to get all the tips on to the point they won't come off. He also charged me $5 to come back and put tips on. I remind him that he needs to ground the antenna and dish, he refused and says it does no good. He leaves shortly after.

August 30:
I find the article that talks about grounding, and call him up. I tell him that he is required by law to ground the stuff he installed within 10 days - and I quote the article to him. He yells at me (Quote "Why the hell do you need to keep pushing this?!") and finally says he will be back... in THREE WEEKS. I call dish and complain about the installer they sent out, they say they will look into it and send a installer to ground my system and fix my signal issues on the 14th of sept. (Uhh thats more than 10 days..). They also say they will call me back within 24hrs to let me know more details and who will be doing the job. I never get the call.

August 31:
I call dish, and ask why I never received the call. (I didn't want the same guy doing the job). I tell them the situation and she tells me the only person that can do the job is this guy. I tell her that he is from a city 2 hours from me, and says he can't make it back for 3 weeks. I also tell her there is a dish installer 3 blocks from my house, and why can't they get them to do it... and she tells me i'll have to call them and set that up.

So here I am.. 2 of the 4 local channels I get are cutting out (Antenna installed wrong most likely - Signal is above 70/100 at all times, which should be plenty). Certain channels on dish rarely come in or never come in (TBS has only been on for about 1 hour, and during that hour it was really glitchy). My signal varys from 15-82 on a clear day (it depends on the channel), which is unacceptable. The guy didn't point the dish anywhere near south, he pointed it NE. Also, did I mention.... If a storm rolls through I most likely won't get any signal and i'll have to worry about my 12 grand home theater system getting surged by a ungrounded antenna and dish?

I had directv 5 years ago when I was out in the country and never had any of these issues, we maybe lost signal 3 times over 4 years.

Sigh.. i'm unsure what to do.
post #13 of 37
Three things... #1) You must have a very inexpensive Dish package as Dish bends over backwards to assist me. I've found that cable and satellite companies (more so) tend to be nicer when you have higher end premium packages. #2) I believe there is a cancellation window within 3 days of install or something like that. #3) You obviously didn't raise enough of a stink. You should've told them to send someone out ASAP then threatened to call the FCC, FTC, etc.

There are great installers and bad installers out there. From the sound of things you got a bad one.
post #14 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by allargon View Post

Three things... #1) You must have a very inexpensive Dish package as Dish bends over backwards to assist me. I've found that cable and satellite companies (more so) tend to be nicer when you have higher end premium packages. #2) I believe there is a cancellation window within 3 days of install or something like that. #3) You obviously didn't raise enough of a stink. You should've told them to send someone out ASAP then threatened to call the FCC, FTC, etc.

There are great installers and bad installers out there. From the sound of things you got a bad one.

1) America Top 100 + Bronze HD ($49.99/month), its not the lowest package but its no where near the highest.
2) Didn't know that but if they can get this to work i'd like to keep it.. but if they can't I don't want it.
3) I did, I told them I refuse to pay for anything until they come out and fix everything... They still took forever. I never threatened to call the FCC.

EDIT: I called again, and they gave me 2 weeks free. Which is nice... They also told me it is to late to cancel and they said there is no 3 day refund policy. I'm in a contract for 2 years, and she said that they will get the service working correctly. Basically now I just have to wait a hope that they fix it.
post #15 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post

1) America Top 100 + Bronze HD ($49.99/month), its not the lowest package but its no where near the highest.
2) Didn't know that but if they can get this to work i'd like to keep it.. but if they can't I don't want it.
3) I did, I told them I refuse to pay for anything until they come out and fix everything... They still took forever. I never threatened to call the FCC.

EDIT: I called again, and they gave me 2 weeks free. Which is nice... They also told me it is to late to cancel and they said there is no 3 day refund policy. I'm in a contract for 2 years, and she said that they will get the service working correctly. Basically now I just have to wait a hope that they fix it.

why did you start another thread.

call your building inspector about grounding. have him order it removed.

the call dish and tell them that the building inspector had it removed and cancel.

D* and E* both pay the installers **** and thats why you get what you get. The guy knows there are no other options around you and he knows he doesnt have to do it right.

The installer down the street won't work for the money Dish is offering.
post #16 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post

Soo my cable company's quality looked like crap on my HDTV, so I decided to go with dish, which is all digital and offers alot more HD channels.

I'm starting to think it was a huge mistake..

August 2:
I order dish via phone. $50 to install.

August 12:
I find out they don't offer local channels in HD. Requires me to spend $99.95 for antenna + install (Up to about $150 now).

August 28:
Dish arrives, installs my dish and antenna, and sets up my receiver. They put the worse ends i've seen on the coax cable. Signal was messing up when the guy was here, however he said he peaked the signal for the antenna and dish and the signal issue is because its still downloading data. He leaves. 2 Hours later 3 tips that he put on the coax cable have fallen off. I test the others and sure enough i'm able to pull them off with ease. I call him up and tell him I want him to come back with high quality ends and do the install right. I also tell him that by law he's required to ground my dish and antenna (which he didn't).

August 29:
He arrives again with the new tips for the coax cable which were the exact same thing. After he puts them all on I test them and make sure they won't come off. I manage to pull one off with ease, he says the tip must be bad (Sorry doesn't work like that...). Finally he manages to get all the tips on to the point they won't come off. He also charged me $5 to come back and put tips on. I remind him that he needs to ground the antenna and dish, he refused and says it does no good. He leaves shortly after.

August 30:
I find the article that talks about grounding, and call him up. I tell him that he is required by law to ground the stuff he installed within 10 days - and I quote the article to him. He yells at me (Quote "Why the hell do you need to keep pushing this?!") and finally says he will be back... in THREE WEEKS. I call dish and complain about the installer they sent out, they say they will look into it and send a installer to ground my system and fix my signal issues on the 14th of sept. (Uhh thats more than 10 days..). They also say they will call me back within 24hrs to let me know more details and who will be doing the job. I never get the call.

August 31:
I call dish, and ask why I never received the call. (I didn't want the same guy doing the job). I tell them the situation and she tells me the only person that can do the job is this guy. I tell her that he is from a city 2 hours from me, and says he can't make it back for 3 weeks. I also tell her there is a dish installer 3 blocks from my house, and why can't they get them to do it... and she tells me i'll have to call them and set that up.

So here I am.. 2 of the 4 local channels I get are cutting out (Antenna installed wrong most likely - Signal is above 70/100 at all times, which should be plenty). Certain channels on dish rarely come in or never come in (TBS has only been on for about 1 hour, and during that hour it was really glitchy). My signal varys from 15-82 on a clear day (it depends on the channel), which is unacceptable. The guy didn't point the dish anywhere near south, he pointed it NE. Also, did I mention.... If a storm rolls through I most likely won't get any signal and i'll have to worry about my 12 grand home theater system getting surged by a ungrounded antenna and dish?

I had directv 5 years ago when I was out in the country and never had any of these issues, we maybe lost signal 3 times over 4 years.

Sigh.. i'm unsure what to do.

Please keep your threads on the on-going topic to one.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...424&highlight=
post #17 of 37
Topics merged.
post #18 of 37
E-mail ceo@echostar.com and politely explain the problem. Ask them to have someone contact you and leave a daytime phone number. That office solves problems and can be quite helpful.
post #19 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorman View Post

E-mail ceo@echostar.com and politely explain the problem.

FYI, the CEO is Charlie Ergen.
post #20 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_M View Post

FYI, the CEO is Charlie Ergen.

You really think Charlie Ergen or a CSR reads emails to that address
post #21 of 37
I don't know who reads them, but, based upon my experience, you will get a response. You can also try charlie.ergen@echostar.com
post #22 of 37
I know who the ceo is. I posted the address to a division that addresses customer complaints and problems. Do they read them, yes. Will someone call you, probably. I've contacted them this way. These people are CSRs beyond the first and second stages.
post #23 of 37
Intresting thread.. I searched directv vs. dish hoping to have a side by side comparission with HD channels included with the comparission.

Got this instead.. You've helped me decide on directv..

I'd be calling the city inspector like stated above and have his license revoked...He told you he's never grounded an antenna...Per previous posts sounds like he's broken the law in every single install....Wait your 10 days..If they recognize the law is 10 days and they are the ones telling you it can't be done in two days they are indirectly at fault since you are communicating thru them..

The short
Dish Network subcontracts out an install
The install is done illegally, causing a potential fire hazard and safety issue
You calll Dish Network and tell this to them and explain the 10 day LAW
Dish network contacts the "subcontractor" and gets back to you telling you they are breaking the law..and that's all they can do for you..

Dish Network is indirectly responsible for this..
I don't care how many disclaimers they have their contractors sign saying they don't work directly for dish network..
The fact is that Dish Network is aware of the illegal activity, aware of the fact they have 10 days to correct it, you are communicating thru them to have the contractor come out..and they blow you off and in a nice spin of words tell you there is nothing they can do but have the contactor break the law....
At the very least you would think they would have someone come out and disconnect the cable from the house to prevent there from being in any sort of violation.

Locally we have a news channel who reports on this kind of stuff.(Not alot of crime in my neck of the woods)..I'm not sure if you have a news channel that does that where you live, but if you do I would give it a try...They'll want your story and in return will help you get results.
post #24 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by LCD guy View Post

Intresting thread.. I searched directv vs. dish hoping to have a side by side comparission with HD channels included with the comparission.

Got this instead.. You've helped me decide on directv..

I'd be calling the city inspector like stated above and have his license revoked...He told you he's never grounded an antenna...Per previous posts sounds like he's broken the law in every single install....Wait your 10 days..If they recognize the law is 10 days and they are the ones telling you it can't be done in two days they are indirectly at fault since you are communicating thru them..

The short
Dish Network subcontracts out an install
The install is done illegally, causing a potential fire hazard and safety issue
You calll Dish Network and tell this to them and explain the 10 day LAW
Dish network contacts the "subcontractor" and gets back to you telling you they are breaking the law..and that's all they can do for you..

Dish Network is indirectly responsible for this..
I don't care how many disclaimers they have their contractors sign saying they don't work directly for dish network..
The fact is that Dish Network is aware of the illegal activity, aware of the fact they have 10 days to correct it, you are communicating thru them to have the contractor come out..and they blow you off and in a nice spin of words tell you there is nothing they can do but have the contactor break the law....
At the very least you would think they would have someone come out and disconnect the cable from the house to prevent there from being in any sort of violation.

Locally we have a news channel who reports on this kind of stuff.(Not alot of crime in my neck of the woods)..I'm not sure if you have a news channel that does that where you live, but if you do I would give it a try...They'll want your story and in return will help you get results.


Your post is rather hard to follow.

I used 10 days as an example - no idea what your or the OP local code is - as, its local.....and I am not.

Some may not even allow 10 days in violation of an issue.
post #25 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by LCD guy View Post

Intresting thread.. I searched directv vs. dish hoping to have a side by side comparission with HD channels included with the comparission.

Got this instead.. You've helped me decide on directv..

Your decision makes no sense, unless you get the exact same installer, which is highly unlikely.
post #26 of 37
LCD guy: For whatever it is worth, none of my neighbors have ever had a Direct TV installer ground their systems. I think it is an installer issue. If you aren't watching, it may not get done, irrespective of the company.
post #27 of 37
I think its lazyness and cheepness of the installers. They know its the law and they must do it. But in many case the installers are sub-contractors so they have to pay for their supplies. If they can cut copper ground wire out of the install that's a few more bucks in their pocket
post #28 of 37
New Guy question??????
I had ALL coax (Dish & OTA) run into surge protecters, Disn installer says this causes signal degradation & is not a necessary connection.
True or False?
Thanks for the knowledge on this site!!!
post #29 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogrobber View Post

New Guy question??????
I had ALL coax (Dish & OTA) run into surge protecters, Disn installer says this causes signal degradation & is not a necessary connection.
True or False?
Thanks for the knowledge on this site!!!

There could be some degradation especially if the coax ends aren't making good contact. But if things are good the loss would be insignificant.

Having surge protection makes lots of sense to protect equipment.
post #30 of 37
Also!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is not required to put your coax through a surge protector. In fact it will screw up the signal. The Dish Network or Direct TV receiver powers your Satellite. Just don't hook up into a surge protector cause there is nothing that is going to surge too high and mess things up. Even if something does mess up you will get a free receiver anyways. An installer is to do no more that hook up strait to your TV. Anything else is extra work for free. Please don't be a terrorist and think everything is free in life. And value your installers time there because they are there to do a job. Not to be a slave for people who have money and time just to waste cause your installer is there and his time is money. Be nice to your installers cause they are doing the job for a cheap economy and paying outrageous gas prices to be there.
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