Sony Next Generation Blu-ray Mega Changer Anticipation Thread - Page 12  

It has to exist before we can complain about it's performance

According to this recent news from SonyInsider, the 400 disc BDP-CX7000ES will be out in August for $1899, and the 200 disc BDP-CX960 will be out in October for $799.

Ha ha. True, true.

Good golly, if those prices are true, the ES is a no-brainer for me...unfortunately. 200 discs simply won't cut it, and doubling non-ES units to make it 400 while just shaving off $300 and losing any of the ES perks is idiotic.

Sigh.

James

This is the problem with these "rumored" issues, such as this. You can't fathom what is new and additional verification, or just a rehashing of what you've already read.

Recall that a poster on this thread stated earlier this month that, as a Sony ES dealer, he'd received a memo on this from Sony, and that it was a special product, subject to Sony's "sure" pricing (i.e., don't lower the price, retailers).

What followed on the Sony Insider site was simply a bit of copying from this thread. The Sony Insider read:


.

I wonder how much reality there is to the idea that Sony will come out with changers sporting two different chassis? Doesn't that seem counter-productive? I do note that the "cheaper" model is referenced as hitting the market at least two months after the first one, and that would make sense, i.e, Sony permitting the market to suck up all the impatient money that it can. But it doesn't make sense to read of a 200 and 400 disc chassis.

Still, the official announcement eludes.

Thanks,

Nick

Yeah, I kinda questioned the 200 and 400 disc differentiator myself. Perhaps (if true) they feel it will be the hook that really grabs an enthusist and makes them buy the ES right out of the gate, essentially instilling the "fear" that once they pass up 200 discs (which could be VERY quickly, especially when you consider many will add their existing DVDs) they'll be SOL (or at least have to buy another $800 player). Really, someone like ME, I guess.

Otherwise, you'd think it'd be a bit pricey to manu two different chassis' but, building disc changers is not my area of expertise, LOL. STILL, at potentially over DOUBLE the price, I think one of two things: 1. they HAVE to have a more significant addition than just a warranty and "better" D/A's, therefore the extra 200 capacity. 2. There could potentially be even larger technical/user differences if they're both 400 disc models.

who knows? This is the end of my speculation, we'll see what we see.

James

I, too, question this source. But those dates are new, and so are the prices.

The two hundred discs capacity sucks, if true, but if they let you link them up, I'll live with it.

I'll probably wait until they spin a non-ES 400 disc model, as I don't have that many Blu-ray movies yet, so for the moment I can handle loading them manually into my single-disc Blu-ray player. My guess is that a year from now they will have a non-ES 400 disc model at a more affordable price. All they need to do is take the existing 400 DVD mega changer and put a Blu-ray drive instead of a DVD drive in the back corner, and update the firmware and menus and stuff to support Blu-ray discs. You would think that would have been obvious to them from the get-go and they wouldn't have ever bothered with a 200 disc model. But big companies rarely do things that actually make sense...

Wasn't there a 200-disc DVD changer way back when? Before they went to 300 and then 400 discs? If my memory is correct, then I see a couple of possibilities:

1 The 200-disc DVD changer is easier to "upgrade" to BD, and thus gets it out on the market faster.

2 They still plan to get a 400-disc BD out there, but this way they get to double dip.

3 Both of the above.

I have both the 400 disc CD changer and the 400 disc DVD/CD changer. They both appear to use the exact same 400 disc caurosel internally, and presumably they have the same mechanism for loading/unloading a disc from the actual player, which is located in the far back left corner of each unit.

Both of the units have identical dimensions. Even the bump out in the back corner that houses the player is identical. The only externally visible differences are the somewhat different front panel controls, and the different set of output connectors on the back panel. Given that Blu-ray discs are the same size as CDs and DVDs, you would think that the existing carousel and loading mechanism would work for Blu-rays. All they would need is a Blu-ray player instead of a DVD player installed in the back corner (which shouldn't care how many discs that the carousel can hold), and then just update some of the firmware for the controls. Heck, it probably could even use the same front panel as the existing DVD/CD model. You'd think in these days of cost savings that would have been a no brainer from the product engineering perspective.

On the other hand, the double dipping theory might have some merit, as the marketing types don't always do things that make sense from a product engineering perspective. That theory would suggest that a 400 disc non-ES model could appear as next year's model. It will be interesting to see what shows up at the Sony booth at CES in January...

Yes, when DVD was in its infancy, Sony was the first one to release a changer, and it was 200 discs. But that was quickly replaced by a 300 disc series, and, finally, the 400 disc series.

But I can't agree with the rest of what you say. It doesn't seem reasonable that Sony would "start" at where the video technology left off--400 discs--and, particularly, the only thing we've ever seen by way of prototype display is just that--400 discs.

Sony will be able to double dip just fine by offering an expensive ES version a few months before anything else. The impatient among us, such as those on this thread, will dig into their pockets for the fare.

Thanks,

Nick

Okay, I'm confused. I would have thought they'd just start with the 400. You say that doesn't seem reasonable. If it doesn't seem reasonable that Sony would start at 400, then where should they start?

I was simply guessing at reasons why they would start with the 200, because that doesn't seem reasonable to me, but is what was reported above.

My post was worded badly. What we've heard thus far is that the 400 disc ES version will come out first, but then a non-ES version (which one poster speculated would be 200 discs) would follow. I simply mean that the progression doesn't make sense. They will start at 400 and stay at 400--my guess.

Nick

I think this thread is primarily devoted to the HDMI output based changers, but do you think there is any chance Sony would resurrect the Firewire based changer that was a 200 disc model meant to be connected to an HTPC.

I'll still can't figure out what the delay is on the changers (hasn't the concept of a changer, going back to the first CD changers, been around for about 15 years!!).

In case it makes any of you feel better about Sony, note that Creston's 200 disc Blu-Ray changer keeps getting delayed as well, so apparently no one can figure this yet.

It still seems kind of crazy to me that all these highend theater installs that I see in magazines have huge 12+ wide screens and Kaleidescape systems, so they are only taking advantage of an SD quality picture on a systems that cost 200K - 500K or more. Yeah I suppose they can get off their butt and load a Blu-ray, but I bet most of them just deal with the SD image from the K* system.

So what seems to be the problem, is there really not enough interest from HT enthusiasts and those that buy 100K plus systems to incent manafacturs? Is it too hard to build a changer? Or are manufacturers not aware of the interest?

We just celebrated 40 years of being to the moon, yet a Blu-ray changer takes years to build?

Ah, then we are in agreement. I too would think they'd start with the 400 and just stay with it, since 400 seems to be the physical limit.

I'm not going to worry about the second version until the first one comes out.
Eight days till the end of the month and still nothing. When/if it shows up, I wonder who'll be the first to stock it, Best Buy (Magnolia)???

Just for kicks, in case some haven't seen picks of this unicorn yet, take a look:

http://www.engadgethd.com/photos/son...anger/1018165/

Notice, the "rental" button? Seems to indicate to me that there'll be an online movie "store" of one sort or another.

That could really be a nice addition for many. Something to square it up against other media players/HTCP's. Albeit of course at a higher cost. Still, a crucial feature, IMO.

Lastly, it may not be as big as I initially thought, at least height-wise. You figure an i-phone is 4 1/2 inches tall and judging by the foto, it appears just over 2 i-phones tall, so about 10-11 inches? Hope so, as I built a center channel speaker stand that I'm hoping to get it under (no, I didn't build the stand with the changer in mind, LOL). Honestly, the current 400 disc DVD changer is under 7 1/2, so with BD's and DVD's being identical in size, I'm wondering why this 400 disc unit would be any taller at all? Perhaps there IS a new take on the design of the changer chassis? Or, a HDD to "buy" some of these rentals?

Just a thought.
James

I would be very, very careful from reading too much into a mock-up model.

I think that the assumption about the rental button was that it would be used in a similar fashion to other "+1 changers" - it's just a slot where you stick a rental disc.

Both units are 400 disc, they are not doing a 200 disc. Sony had both units at a recent regional training and they are both 400 disc. It would cost a lot more money to do two totally different chassis.

Ahhh. Thanks. I've never owned a changer before so that makes a bit more sense than my assertion.

It would be a bit odd for much of the controls to be on the unit anyway when all you reall need is a directional pad, "menu", and an enter button to navigate an online store (like apple tv).

Good to hear reassurance that both units will be 400 discs...just hope we don't have to wait more than a couple of months for the non-ES version AND it's (the non-ES) not a completely technologically/GUI-neutered unit.


James

Were you there? Do you know anything about GUI? I'm wondering if they'll use the same one as in the HES-V1000, which was kind of a poor-boy Escient interface, but still superior to the clunky interfaces that Sony has provided in the past.

Thanks,

Nick

I wasn't there unfortunately. One of my co-workers went and I haven't asked him about the user interface. The ES model is scheduled to ship in August and Sony is accepting orders from dealers. We received that info about three or four weeks ago. The standard line unit is scheduled for October at this point. I'll ask him if he got a chance to use them or if they were just mock ups.

October for the standard issue would be scrumptious. I figure I owe myself a Halloween present. Is it crazy to think that they'll implement a GUI VERY similar to the Xross Media Bar currently used in the ps3, TV's, Receivers, and BD players? Seems pretty linear to me.

James

According to the preliminary info I have they will have the XMB. It also states that there will be "internet look up for jacket art for easy content navigation". Time will tell what that is like and if it will be easy to use.

The ES step ups that are listed are RS232 control, Super Bit Mapping, HD Reality Enhancer, and the 5 year ES warranty. Once the product is real, we'll see if there is anything else.

Hi there:

I'm very interested right now, any word on WIFI -internet hook up- capability?, I mean for that price ($$$$), it should have..

Thanks

I'm betting that this will be the same lookup as is included on the HES-V1000, which downloads cover art and gives some disc info. There is a thread somewhere on AVS about the HES-V1000, and there are pictures of it. It's rudimentary, but it's adequate. It's leagues ahead of Sony's Disc Explorer, or whatever their previous user interfaces have been. It's not nearly as good as Escient's interface but my understanding is that the Escient Vision series has a MSRP of $4999, so I'm betting that most won't go that route.

By the way, what is "XMB?"

Thanks,

Nick

Found this at Widescreen Review:

They also feature the ability to download information from Gracenote's MusicID® and VideoID products to organize movies and music. When a disc is inserted into the device, Gracenote technology automatically downloads information across an existing Internet broadband service and saves title, director, some cast information, release year, and genre information for most titles, allowing users to easily navigate the library intuitively through the player's xross media bar menu system.


http://db.widescreenreview.com/blog_...232&FORM=ZZNR7

Well, the WSR link is as close to official as we can get. So it's official: Sony is about to gouge a few of us that have thirsted for this changer for a long time.

The RS232 is of zero interest to me, since the only thing I've found it useful for on the DVP-CX7777ES was hooking up to Escient controllers. But even if you are inclined to use an Escient, it won't be via 232, but, rather, HDMI or ethernet, both of which are included on both models. The better build quality is a nice thing to keep in mind, but not for $1100 more.

Will I be a sucker and let my impatience get the best of me? Of course I will.

Thanks,

Nick

Well, it didn't take long.

http://www.jr.com/sony/pe/SON_BDPCX7000ES/

Thanks,

Nick

That's the best news I've seen in a while. To all those naysayers about changers, please tell me how you are going to get 20TB of data on an HTPC (400 Blu-Ray * 50gb each) with full Blu-Ray capability for less than $800??

Also, now that this is coming, I wonder if these changers combined with Escient will take a bit out of the Kscape market. The UI may be less than K*, but the ability to have 1,600 Blu-Rays through the Escient system is not matched and even if it can later be by K*, what's the cost of 80TB on a K*?

Wow, I will sure get one...

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/07/23...new/#continued