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This crap has got to end..

post #1 of 240
8/31/08 at 12:11am
Thread Starter 
Rented a copy of Street Kings tonight on Blu-ray. Came home, made some dinner with a couple of friends and sat down to watch the movie. Popped it into my LG Bluray drive, fired up PDVD8 Ultra and was welcomed by a nice little message saying that my firmware was out of date and the movie could not be played.

Great...

Spent 15 minutes trying to find the firmware util (LG usually provides a firmware updater) but ended up having to download it from their website.

Upgraded the firmware from 1.02 to 1.03, rebooted as directed and tried again.

Nope.. even tho I had the latest firmware, the disc decided it still wasn't good enough.

Friends and I are getting a bit annoyed at this point so I decided a last ditch effort would be to download a trial of AnyDVD HD. Installed, rebooted once again and oh my god it worked!

Great movie by the way, only had to violate a small handful of copy protection laws to watch it but that's what you get from Hollywood these days I suppose.

So.. has anyone run into this before and found a LEGAL solution to watching the movie? I don't want to rip, burn, upload or do anything other than simply watch the damn thing and I really don't want to spend $140 on AnyDVD HD and risk wasting 5 years in jail for being a menace to the movie industry.

Oh, and I noticed the audio from the center channel was a bit crackly... could this be due to the firmware update or AnyDVD doing it's thing?

Thanks.
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post #2 of 240
8/31/08 at 1:48am
It is ludicrous. I've "opted out" of this loser format by using x264 alternatives.

I refuse to play the games or support a format that requires them.
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post #3 of 240
8/31/08 at 2:58am
PowerDVD was not asking for a firmware update of your drive, but for a software update of PowerDVD itself. Software players require regular AACS key updates (usually every few months).
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post #4 of 240
8/31/08 at 3:15am
His point is still valid. The keys keep changing on the discs, but this is not something a regular user cares about. All DRM does is harass the law abiding innocent users, while those who pirate always have an easier time.
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post #5 of 240
8/31/08 at 3:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defcon View Post

His point is still valid. The keys keep changing on the discs, but this is not something a regular user cares about. All DRM does is harass the law abiding innocent users, while those who pirate always have an easier time.

I don't really want to get into this debate. The OP was asking how to play back this title legally, and the answer is to update the player software, not the drive firmware.

The updated firmware for the LG drive does nothing but update the burn strategies for DVD-R, BTW (assuming the OP was talking about the GGC-H20 or GGW-H20).
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post #6 of 240
8/31/08 at 4:36am
Interesting, I just upgraded my Graphics card to e-GeForce 8600 GTS, and on AA, I was told AnyDVD is legal. I must research more on this, thanks for the software heads-up.
LL
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post #7 of 240
8/31/08 at 6:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioAl1 View Post

I was told AnyDVD is legal. I must research more on this, thanks for the software heads-up.

The cat told you that??

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post #8 of 240
8/31/08 at 6:35am
No, he said it was AA that told him that. Maybe somebody there missed a few meetings.
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post #9 of 240
8/31/08 at 6:39am
Is it also possible that the driver for the OP's graphics card was not up to date and that PowerDVD mistated the problem it was having since it could not get to the advanced H.264 firmware on the graphics card using the installed driver?
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post #10 of 240
8/31/08 at 7:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigby Reardon View Post

I don't really want to get into this debate. The OP was asking how to play back this title legally, and the answer is to update the player software, not the drive firmware.

The updated firmware for the LG drive does nothing but update the burn strategies for DVD-R, BTW (assuming the OP was talking about the GGC-H20 or GGW-H20).

I didn't mean to start a debate about it either, its a whole can of worms

What I am curious is, why doesn't the player software contact some server to get the updated keys? Why can't it all just work instead of making a user jump through hoops?

I don't know if the software makers are incompetent, or MPAA doesn't want this mechanism, because their key server would get hacked. Both wouldn't surprise me.
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post #11 of 240
8/31/08 at 8:30am
Please use meaningful thread titles. Helps everyone.
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post #12 of 240
8/31/08 at 8:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigby Reardon View Post

PowerDVD was not asking for a firmware update of your drive, but for a software update of PowerDVD itself. Software players require regular AACS key updates (usually every few months).

Actually if I had to guess, I'd bet it's the BD+ protection on the disc that was "asking for" the firmware update. It's probably written in that wording since most BD players are standalones that get firmware updates not PCs which get SW updates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse S View Post

It is ludicrous. I've "opted out" of this loser format by using x264 alternatives.

Please share, I'm sure all the members here would be interested in knowing an alternative legal source for HD movies besides Blu-ray.
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post #13 of 240
8/31/08 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse S View Post

It is ludicrous. I've "opted out" of this loser format by using x264 alternatives.

I refuse to play the games or support a format that requires them.

OML, i here yah!....Had my Momma & a few friends over on Friday, after super,we tried to sit down and watch a BR, PowerDVD wouldn't let us....

PDVD8 just desided its not going to play SPDIF anymore(Total Freeze )...And then after a few crashes. It no longer detected the disc in Drive... ;-(

I hate it all,man i wish hd won.
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post #14 of 240
8/31/08 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse S View Post

It is ludicrous. I've "opted out" of this loser format...

I refuse to play the games or support a format that requires them.

Simply the best solution!
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post #15 of 240
8/31/08 at 12:03pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigby Reardon View Post

PowerDVD was not asking for a firmware update of your drive, but for a software update of PowerDVD itself. Software players require regular AACS key updates (usually every few months).


Actually it wasn't a PDVD message, it was a red screen with orange lettering specifically stating that my firmware was out of date and had a URL for Fox for links to firmware updates...
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post #16 of 240
8/31/08 at 12:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defcon View Post

I didn't mean to start a debate about it either, its a whole can of worms

What I am curious is, why doesn't the player software contact some server to get the updated keys? Why can't it all just work instead of making a user jump through hoops?

I don't know if the software makers are incompetent, or MPAA doesn't want this mechanism, because their key server would get hacked. Both wouldn't surprise me.

So.. what happens when you sit down to play a disc on a standalone player? You have to mail in your bluray player for a firmware update before you can watch the rented movie?
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post #17 of 240
8/31/08 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post

Actually it wasn't a PDVD message, it was a red screen with orange lettering specifically stating that my firmware was out of date and had a URL for Fox for links to firmware updates...

It seems that stranger89's theory is correct then (i.e. the BD+ code on the disc is issuing the firmware warning). Nonetheless, the remedy on a PC-based player is to update the player software, not the drive firmware. You should never have to update the latter to make a movie work (it's theoretically possible but extremely unlikely that the drive certificate for your drive will ever be revoked).

For the record: I'm not happy about BD+ either, just trying to help.
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post #18 of 240
8/31/08 at 12:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ79 View Post

Please use meaningful thread titles. Helps everyone.

..it was quite meaningful- before opening the thread I knew it was a BluRay DRM issue just from the title as I scanned recent threads.

(I am serious).
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post #19 of 240
8/31/08 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post


Oh, and I noticed the audio from the center channel was a bit crackly... could this be due to the firmware update or AnyDVD doing it's thing?

Thanks.

I read that a lot of people were having issues with the center channel being crackly in the Blu Ray review section of this forum, so I don't think it has anything to do with your setup.
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post #20 of 240
8/31/08 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Please share, I'm sure all the members here would be interested in knowing an alternative legal source for HD movies besides Blu-ray.

Perhaps he is practicing a form of protest against social injustice
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice

"Social justice refers to the concept of a society in which justice is achieved in every aspect of society, rather than merely the administration of law. It is generally thought of as a world which affords individuals and groups fair treatment and an impartial share of the benefits of society. (Different proponents of social justice have developed different interpretations of what constitutes fair treatment and an impartial share.) It can also refer to the distribution of advantages and disadvantages within a society."

"Legal source" for x264's would fall under the "mere administration of law" caveat, meaning some actions may be an ethical, moral reaction to societal injustice, regardless of the law.

Are consumers fairly treated by DRM, particularly phone home DRM, which includes requiring media player software/set top firmware updates for new disc releases moving forward?

Are essentially unlimited copyright terms an impartial distribution of the benefits to society of art and culture from film and music? Who has the bulk of the advantages currently?
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post #21 of 240
8/31/08 at 12:53pm
Thread Starter 
So I am curious.. why should computer software need regular updates to support new bluray titles yet set-top players don't?
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post #22 of 240
8/31/08 at 12:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post

So I am curious.. why should computer software need regular updates to support new bluray titles yet set-top players don't?

I am just guessing, but the BluRay group/Sony probably sees WIndows BluRay media players like PowerDVD as the biggest security hole for them, and want to keep it a moving target.

Funny how WIndows is the biggest security hole and source of piracy for all media (games and music/movies), as the only OS with a BD+ ripper, AnyDVD.
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post #23 of 240
8/31/08 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post

So I am curious.. why should computer software need regular updates to support new bluray titles yet set-top players don't?

Who says standalone players don't need updates? They surely do.

Chris
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post #24 of 240
8/31/08 at 1:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigby Reardon View Post


For the record: I'm not happy about BD+ either, just trying to help.


...perhaps, in addition to not using BluRay, we all need to pledge passive resistance, and not offer help nor assistance for any BluRay issues. It will then go away...
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post #25 of 240
8/31/08 at 1:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post

So I am curious.. why should computer software need regular updates to support new bluray titles yet set-top players don't?

Software players on the PC use a different class of AACS keys, so-called shared device keys. This basically means that all copies of a particular software player use the same keys. These keys can be changed for 2 reasons:
(1) Players using shared keys must perform "proactive renewal" , i.e. the keys will be changed on a regular schedule at least every 18 months
(2) If there is suspicion that a shared key has been compromised, the AACS license agency will revoke that key, usually with a grace period of at least 3 months (to give vendor and users reasonable time for the update). Since currently the software players are usually hacked faster than the keys can be revoked, this means in practice that the keys will change every few months.

Standalone players, on the other hand, use individual keys and are also not subject to "proactive renewal". These keys can also be revoked, bu that will only affect individual players, not the whole series. These keys are supposed to be protected by robust mechanisms, such as special cryptographic chips.

On Blu-ray (but not HD DVD), there is an additional layer of DRM called BD+. This basically enables the movie studios to put their own copy protection code on the disc. Due to its programmability, this can in principle be used for all kinds of nasty stuff.
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post #26 of 240
8/31/08 at 1:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisL01 View Post

Who says standalone players don't need updates? They surely do.

But not usually for key updates (only to fix bugs, which may happen with any other type of device as well).
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post #27 of 240
8/31/08 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post

Rented a copy of Street Kings tonight on Blu-ray. Came home, made some dinner with a couple of friends and sat down to watch the movie. Popped it into my LG Bluray drive, fired up PDVD8 Ultra and was welcomed by a nice little message saying that my firmware was out of date and the movie could not be played.

Great...

Yet another person who realizes the truth: HTPCs suck for BD playback, and you should get a standalone player instead.
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post #28 of 240
8/31/08 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Please share, I'm sure all the members here would be interested in knowing an alternative legal source for HD movies besides Blu-ray.

simple, the US founding fathers had an answer for this...
Quote:


That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

if a law or government becomes unjust rebel... not only is it your right to do so, but it is in fact your duty... therefore anyone not supporting the pirate bay is a bad American...
of course, they may have been worried about more then just being able to watch Debbie does Dallas in 1080P.... but still the concept is sound...
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post #29 of 240
8/31/08 at 2:06pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisL01 View Post

Who says standalone players don't need updates? They surely do.

Chris


It used to be that AV equipment was pretty plug and play and all the enthusiast stuff (tweaking this, upgrading that, etc...) was done on the computers..

Now with bluray it seems that you need to be an enthusiast who is willing to tweak and fiddle just to get the damn thing working.
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post #30 of 240
8/31/08 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somewhatlost View Post

simple, the US founding fathers had an answer for this...



...and I thought I was the only one preferring the judgment and integrity of John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, et al over recent vintage (20th-21st century) legislators

...be sure to watch the John Adams mini series on DVD if you missed it on HBO. You'll *really* wish we had more of John Adams' brand of statesmanship vs the current crop of politicians

The similarities between John Adams' perseverance in achieving independence and sovereignty for the US at that time and the current struggle to achieve independence over our "sovereign territory"- our PC's and all other media playback and storage devices and the information on them- is quite striking.
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