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QuietRock 510 vs 525 vs ?

post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 
Hey guys,
I'm looking to built a media room in the basement for watching tv/movies but am in need of some advice. Currently it's just one big open are that I'm planning on making in to two separate rooms, one 17' by 11' & the other 23' by 12'. The rooms are just standard 1/2 on the wall & 5/8 on the celling with no insulation between the floors.
What I'm thinking of doing is taking out the existing DW (in the smaler sized room) to add wiring, fixing the lighting, restructure around some ducts, add insulation & add a wall to separate the two rooms. After this I was planning of adding Roxul Safe 'n' Sound insulation the add Quietrock (either 510 or 525) instead of regular drywall to cut the sound transfer between rooms above & besides the new media room.

1st: would be does this make plan have any major flaws that anyone could point out ?
2nd: does anyone know the if there is a big difference between QR 510 ($60 per 4x8) & QR525 ($105 per 4x8) as there is a big difference in the price ? Also do these prices seem right for the Vancouver B.C. area where I am ?
3rd: is there any other material I should consider instead of Quiterock as I really need to reduce the sound transfer between the floor ?

Thanks in Advance Steven
post #2 of 30
It's been said here many times that the best isolation performance per $ spent is to do 2 layers of 5/8 drywall + Green Glue. If you want more performance, then you can look at other measures such as hat channel & RSIC Clips. Most here agree that any benefit provided by "Sound isolating" insulation is not worth the added cost. Just use the regular stuff.

Also, in my opinion, a 12' wide HT room is on the narrow side if you want to use a front projector and >100" screen. It is do-able, but I'd consider going a little wider. It will give you more options in the long-run. I doubt few here have ever said, "I wish my room was narrower".

Spend some time doing research in this forum. There is tons of info and many helpful smart people here.
post #3 of 30
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the great info guys. After reading all the comments I thinking I just might drop the Quietrock & go Green Glue route. The main issue with that is getting the stuff with me being on the Vancouver & the only Canadian guys that carry it are in the east so shipping is going to be a pain but c'est la vie.

There is one company (Soundproofing Company.com) in the US that has this Speedloading system for dispensing Green Glue & they also sell it in the 5 gal pail so it cheaper then the normal tube way. I'm just waiting to here back on shipping but they said a pail does 365 sq feet @ 2 load per 4X8 ( which as you said is too much) si I thinking I could get 700 or so sq feet out of a pail & that only 253.22 a pail + 25 or so for the Speedload gun. They also recommend using RSIC-V Clip Resilient Clips that they sell for $2 each which they say do 95% of what the RSIC-1 clips do but at 1/3 the cost so I may just end up doing that too. Thanks for the info on the taping/coating the quietrock, as I doing most of the work myself & it sounds like alot more hassle then the it worth. Also do to this being a townhouse complex I'm in there are two fire sprinkler heads in the area that I'm building the media room in. How's the best was to deal with these & sealing them up to prevent noising getting thought their holes?

jlachanc: thanks for your input on the size of the room but due too some existing structure & a post in the wrong place I can't do much about the size. At the screen end it will only be 11' across but I think that enough for around a 100" screen because I just going to have the speakers on the side that screen nothing else. I've looked into relocating to post it's just no in the budget. Your right on the projector as currently I have a 51" rear projection hdtv that does pretty well (considering it's only 1080i) but for a room this size it's just too small. I looking to get a Epson Home Cinema 1080UB which with the resent $200 drop + $300 rebate & free extra bulb seems like a great deal. Also since I''m looking at a projector is the paint on screen worth doing or is it just a big hassle.

Thanks & keep the any other info you think would help coming as I appreciate it all
Steven
post #4 of 30
A lot of people here purchase from the soundproofing company (including me) and they come highly regarded.

Look into getting an AT screen so that you can have your speakers behind the screen rather than beside or below it.

CJ
post #5 of 30
I second the recommendation for Soundproofing Company; they are great guys. I did my room with their Speedload system and it works great.

I also second the recommendation for the AT screen. If you go too wide with a NON-AT screen, then the speakers get pushed up against the side walls which can decrease sound quality. What some have done is build columns to hide support poles, allowing them to have a 6-12" wider room. Though it of course depends on your room specifics. I would post some pics here and ask the guru's what they think. Once you lay the drywall you will never go back, so better to explore all options now.

Keep in mind RSIC-V does not damp low end frequencies as well as RSIC-1. Though if one is on a tight budget, this maybe a worthwhile trade-off, as the cost difference is significant.

I equate sound isolation to building a bridge: if your goal is to only move people across, (modest sound isolation), you only need a small, light, inexpensive bridge. If you want to move trains across, (high performance isolation), you need a bigger, more expensive bridge. It all comes back to what your goals are, and aligning them to your room and budget.

Also, don't forget to take into consideration HVAC isolation and to address wall penetrations. There is plenty of info here on these topics.
post #6 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach3 View Post

Also do to this being a townhouse complex I'm in there are two fire sprinkler heads in the area that I'm building the media room in. How's the best was to deal with these & sealing them up to prevent noising getting thought their holes?

Steven


Some acoustic sealant would be sufficient. But code may require a fire-rated caulk, available at any hardware store.
post #7 of 30
Is a room with green glue warmer?
post #8 of 30
Do any of you have experience with the QuietRock 545 THX board? My HT will double as a jam room/recording studio, so I need very good sound isolation--in and out.
post #9 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMo View Post

Is a room with green glue warmer?

Well...no. Minuscule amounts of heat that you would not measure or feel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dixon View Post

Do any of you have experience with the QuietRock 545 THX board? My HT will double as a jam room/recording studio, so I need very good sound isolation--in and out.

There are less expensive higher performance solutions. Your isolation will be significantly benefited if you use all 2 Elements of soundproofing: http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/...m_construction and watch out for flanking pathways: http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/...icles/flanking
post #10 of 30
Hey Ted,

Just curious, but what would yield a better result with sound control if you could only do one.

Isolating the frame from cieling and using RISC clips with hat channel and single drywall on the ceiling and single drywall for the walls, or DD and GG walls and ceiling with no isolation of framing?

Thanks.
post #11 of 30
That would depend on the frequency. At some frequencies, one will be better than the other.
post #12 of 30
Ted--I am using iso tracks to decouple the inner wall and ceiling, and using the 545 on that. I am pouring a new concrete floor that will be decoupled from the rest of the slab in my basement. The wall studs will sit on iso pads as well. There will be the usual insulation, as well as pad and carpet on floor. I have a standalone HVAC system for that specific room. My room is not too wide (only about 14 ft--22 ft long) so I want to minimize footprint of walls.

If you have suggestions for equal or better material/performance than the 545, I am all ears. We probably went over the top providing for it, but I want to get the most isolation I can get "within reason" ( a relative term, I know)
post #13 of 30
So the inner walls are new theater walls? Decouple them from the old ceiling joists with PAC DC-04 clips.

You can avoid clips and track on walls and ceilings by simply decoupling with the framing. Staggered stud walls or double stud (sounds like you have a double stud wall system already). If that doesn't fit into the system (like on the ceiling), use standard clips and track.

For drywall, use layers of 5/8, then 3/8" or 1/2" with Green Glue in between. 3 layers total.
post #14 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

That would depend on the frequency. At some frequencies, one will be better than the other.

for Low Frequencies. Bass from the subs. which route would be better?
post #15 of 30
Keep in mind that in a real application, you would be really wasting efforts by not doing both.

More variables: What type of drywall, what depth of cavity, insulation? (thickness / type) weight and type of subfloor above, joist spacing...

Damping doesn't replace decoupling and vice-versa.
post #16 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

Keep in mind that in a real application, you would be really wasting efforts by not doing both.

More variables: What type of drywall, what depth of cavity, insulation? (thickness / type) weight and type of subfloor above, joist spacing...

Damping doesn't replace decoupling and vice-versa.

Let' say, regular 1/2" drywall GG and 1/2" DW (2 tubes of GG per 4x8 sheet) Versus 1/2" drywall, decoupled framing, ceiling with RISC and hat channels.

All else equal: depth of cavity is the standard 11" (I think that is what is standard), 24" joist spacing.
using R19 insulation.

Flooring above 5/8" OSB T&G I believe with carpet/pad.

But I guess based on your answer, one is not better than the other and doing one and not the other won't really benefit you, so it's better not do any if you aren't doing both?

So for those already finished basements, who don't want to rip out what's there and re-frame, etc, it won't make sense for them to add GG and another layer of DW, b/c the framing is not decoupled?
post #17 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old View Post

But I guess based on your answer, one is not better than the other and doing one and not the other won't really benefit you, so it's better not do any if you aren't doing both?

So for those already finished basements, who don't want to rip out what's there and re-frame, etc, it won't make sense for them to add GG and another layer of DW, b/c the framing is not decoupled?

Not saying that at all. Better to do something than nothing.

If you have existing drywall and can't remove it, you shouldn't use clips even if you wanted to. The small air cavity is a big problem.

Best to add 1-2 additional sheets of drywall and damp them.
post #18 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dixon View Post


If you have suggestions for equal or better material/performance than the 545, I am all ears. We probably went over the top providing for it, but I want to get the most isolation I can get "within reason" ( a relative term, I know)

THX 545 on both sides of a single stud wall has an STC rating of 60. Both sides of a double stud wall will give it a rating of 75. You would probably need three layers of Green Glue and 4 layers of 5/8" to equal the THX 545. How much has the 545 been priced at for you?

Where I am it is something like $350 per sheet and needs to be hung by at least 3 people and probably isn't terribly safe to hang on ceilings.
post #19 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by tandylacker View Post

THX 545 on both sides of a single stud wall has an STC rating of 60. Both sides of a double stud wall will give it a rating of 75. You would probably need three layers of Green Glue and 4 layers of 5/8" to equal the THX 545. How much has the 545 been priced at for you?

Where I am it is something like $350 per sheet and needs to be hung by at least 3 people and probably isn't terribly safe to hang on ceilings.


That's an STC 62 on a steel stud wall from their site.

Interesting:

Double 5/8" standard drywall with 2 loads of GG on either side of the same steel framed wall... STC 62

The THX wall would fare better in the low frequencies, because it weighs 172 lbs a sheet, but just add another sheet bring the total to three per side and thereyou go.
post #20 of 30
Interesting. Three sides of my room are stone walls--part of the original foundation from the 20's. I was not planning on putting 545 on the outside of the framing on those walls. Does the extra layer on the other side of the studs really make that much difference if the wall is otherwise decoupled?

I find it odd that a 172 lb, multi-layer 545 panel doesn't outperform two layers of 5/8" drywall with GG. Not saying that isn't the case--just struggling to understand what application the 545 would ever be used for if that is the case.

Re the weight, I can see why putting it on the ceiling would be a bit unnerving.


Tandylacker--I will have to check re the 545 pricing. It was included in the specs from my architect and so it is included in a much larger bid. That said, I already told my contractor I may go another route, and he is happy to shave the material costs off if I do.
post #21 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dixon View Post

Does the extra layer on the other side of the studs really make that much difference if the wall is otherwise decoupled?

I find it odd that a 172 lb, multi-layer 545 panel doesn't outperform two layers of 5/8" drywall with GG.

In your situation you would only install drywall on the inner theater side. Nothing between the theater and the foundation except air and insulation.

The 545 does outperform the double 5/8" and Green Glue. As I said, the 545 performs better in the low frequencies due to the weight. STC doesn't measure low frequencies. The example is given so that you can see there are less expensive ways to achieve your goals.
post #22 of 30
The weight overhead isn't an issue. 3 sheets of 5/8" is common. Also to keep this in perspective, the aforementioned tests compared double 5/8" (145 lbs) to 1 sheet of 545 (172 lbs). So there's not a giant weight discrepancy as you may have envisioned.
post #23 of 30
Thanks Ted. I do appreciate the advice, and the cost differential is not insignificant. Will be in touch as I get closer to the build-out of that room.
post #24 of 30
Thread Starter 
Hey Guys, First thanks for all the idea's & help with my once "little project". Anyway I was emailing back & forth with John at Soundproofing Company, I think I have a good plan now. Rather then the original QuiteRock idea I'm going to use the clips to de-coupled the walls/celling from the studs & then put up two 5/8 drywall with Green Glue in between. With this new plan in place, I've ordered the GG, Whisper clips, Acoustic Sealant & putty pads which should ship on Monday. After doing something thinking I had a few questions I need some help on.

1. I have a Paradigm 7.1 speaker setup & was wondering if I could still mount these on the walls & how would I do this on a de-coupled setup like described above without defeating the Whisper clips ? speaker weight 18.5lb each ?

2. Same as question 1 but on the projector mounting how would I mount this to the celling that is de-coupled like described above without defeating the Whisper clips ? projector weight 13lb

3. I'm planning on running one HDMI cables & one set of component cables in the celling from the amp to the projector mounting location. First I know I can get HDMI wall plates but what do I do about the component cables? Are there plates avail. for them to? Or do I just make a hole then seal it using the acoustic sealant?

Thanks again
Steven
post #25 of 30
Steven,

Speakers can be mounted no problem. Same with the projector. These are all lightweight items.

In the areas where you will be wall mounting things, consider using comarable thickness plywood as the first layer instead of drywall. This way you have a nail base to attach whatever you want.

Regarding penetrations, just seal as you described.
post #26 of 30
Thread Starter 
Thanks Ted but I was just wondering would I sub. a entire 4x8 sheet of 5/8 drywall for a same sized piece of 5/8 plywood or can I get away with a small 4x4 just in the few areas where the speakers or projector will be mounted.

I had planned to do two 5/8 layers with Green Glue in the between but if I read some of your comments maybe I should consider doing three layers on the celling. How much better would three layers be versus two layers ?


jlachanc: Where can I find me if on a AT screen type screen? I gather this just means sound can go threw it like how IMAX does it with their Screen's.
On the hiding of the post in a column, I will find where the post is soon & post some pics up as I need to do some exploring of a few of the walls anyway for any un-known hazards that I might encounter


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

Steven,

Speakers can be mounted no problem. Same with the projector. These are all lightweight items.

In the areas where you will be wall mounting things, consider using comarable thickness plywood as the first layer instead of drywall. This way you have a nail base to attach whatever you want.

Regarding penetrations, just seal as you described.
post #27 of 30
http://www.seymourav.com/screens.asp sells DIY material that they will even cut to exact dimensions for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach3 View Post



jlachanc: Where can I find me if on a AT screen type screen? I gather this just means sound can go threw it like how IMAX does it with their Screen's.
On the hiding of the post in a column, I will find where the post is soon & post some pics up as I need to do some exploring of a few of the walls anyway for any un-known hazards that I might encounter
post #28 of 30
Mach, Three layers gives you more mass, which is a big plus. More thoroughly damped mass as a result of introducing multiple damping layers (2). Damping is more efficient in layers, even given the same mass and amount of damping material.

You would have to move your track distances from 24" to 16". The SSMA spec on 25 ga Hat Track is 2 sheets of 5/8" spanning 4'3" as I recall. You'd be outside of the first parameter. So you essentially add clips to spread out the new load.

Overall it's a big deal. As I said, even if you used the same amount of GG you budgeted for the two layer scheme.

Much better low frequency isolation. I wish everyone did three layers.

You can certainly insert a 4x4 of plywood where needed. Just figure out the attachment points for both the plywood and drywall on the hat track.
post #29 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach3 View Post

jlachanc: Where can I find me if on a AT screen type screen? I gather this just means sound can go threw it like how IMAX does it with their Screen's.

The AT (acoustically transparent) screen does allow the sound to pass through. Besides the Seymour screen, also take a look at www.SMXscreens.com and www.screenresearch.com. Seymour would be the cheapest, SMX the next, and screenreasearch the most expensive.

CJ
post #30 of 30
For AT screens you can also look at Stewart (expensive) and Draper (more affordable). If you are on a tight budget, check out the DIY screen forums as suggested.

Yes, you can get component cable connector wall plates. They probably have them here. Monoprice is also a good place to get cables. In addition, I also recommend http://www.bluejeanscable.com.

Though in general, I think you will get better sound isolation by running the wires though a hole the wall and sealing it.

I also strongly suggest you run conduit to at least your projector location. This way cables can be added or changed later on if needed.
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