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Epson 1080p Home Cinema 6100 - Page 3

post #61 of 1639
Quote:
Originally Posted by leonp View Post

COncerning #1. It sounds like you have gone back in time 5 years . I have DirectTV, but had cable a year ago. I cannot believe his digital cable box doesn't have more than 5 channels, unless these are just locals and he only has the basic package. I also can't believe he must turn the box off to watch these channels. Sounds like you need the cable guy to come out and check out your box, but I suspect he is not doing something right.

His local cable company is a co-op that will not allow any other cable services to enter its area. I have DIRECTV, and have been begging him to upgrade to either Direct or Dish Network. He actually has no cable box at the moment. He has a coaxial cable screwed directly into his HDTV. He has the ol' standard of digital channels (SD), but only 5 or so HD channels. The customers with a set-top box are told that they have to turn it off in order to view HD channels. Anyways, you are correct in that they are way behind as far as cable service, although they have been claiming to be upgrading to a Fios-type of service next year (they have been promising hi that for 2+ years).
post #62 of 1639
Hey Guys,

My apologies for not responding sooner as my schedule has been incredibly busy. I will post a much more thorough update over the weekend but here are my initial impressions:

Image/Picture
There is a noticeable improvement over the HC720 regarding picture quality. The jump from 720P to 1080P is the most obvious to my eyes(seating distance is nine feet from 92in diagonal), but black levels, color depth and shadow detail are also superior.

Literature/Manuals
The HC6100/HC6500UB share the same owners manual so features for both projectors are listed.

Case/Chassis
The new case design is noticeably larger than the current version.

Noise Level
No issue and does not seem any better/worse than the HC720.


Scott
post #63 of 1639
Thanks, nice to hear it's a good pj!
post #64 of 1639
I'll have my hands on one early next week to evaluate. I'll share my thoughts once I get it. Of course, I need to find somewhere to put this beast to test it.....my normal shelves won't accommodate it.
post #65 of 1639
I'm probably going to pick one of these up next week to replace my 5 year old pj. If you guys are ceiling mounting it, which mounts are you guys going with?
post #66 of 1639
I put this one up on display today and it looked much better than the optoma that I tried out. To bad the lighting is so harsh. I can't really get a feel for how it performs.
post #67 of 1639
Hey Guys,

Well I have owned and operated this projector for the past week(30hrs) and will say that I am relatively pleased so far regarding it's performance. I have watched a variety of content both SD/HD to really evaluate the range of it's capabilities, so here are my impressions:

EQUIPMENT & ROOM SETUP
Motorola Dual Tuner DVR DCH3416 (Comcast) - HDMI OUT(1080i)
Sony DA3400ES Receiver - HDMI IN/HDMI OUT(1080i/p)
Epson HC6100 Projector - HDMI IN(1080i/p)
Room Light Control - 80%
Seating Distance - 9FT
Screen DIAG - 96IN
Wall Color - Brown

Since I don't own a screen yet, I am projecting onto a medium/neutral brown-colored wall. The projector is rear shelf-mounted with the lense centered to the image area(no lense shift required) and approximately 3FT from my couch. This projector does have a shorter throw than the HC720, which could only produce a 92IN screen diagonal from the same distance(max zoom). I am using a 3FT 24AWG HDMI cable from the DVR into the receiver and a 25FT 24AWG HDMI cable from the receiver to the projector. I do not have an HD-DVD or BD player yet, so all viewing is from the DVR. Viewing content for movies was Hitman and Transformers recorded in HD via CinemaxHD.

OWNERS MANUAL/LITERATURE
The manual is shared between the HC6100/6500UB but seems to be focused on the 6100 unless there is an attribute or feature specific to the 6500UB. For example, the 6100 has specific features such as motion detection and 2:2pulldown, while the 6500UB has frame interpolation and 4:4 pulldown. Both units use the new 200W lamp(despite the lower lumen rating), with the 6500UB weighing approximately 0.4lbs more and consuming an additional 16W in standard operating mode. The manual does not address whether either unit uses the organic or inorganic D7 panels.

BUILD QUALITY/CHASSIS
Overall build quality feels solid. This projector is definitely larger than the previous chassis, but I think it appears even more so due to it's generic square shape compared to the previous models' organic curvy design. The lamp access door is now located on top and the dust filter on the backside(below the cable connections) which is good news for those planning to ceiling mount. The menu/arrow buttons are also now located on the side(power/source buttons still on top).

IMAGE/PICTURE QUALITY
I have tried outputting both 1080i/p from the receiver into the projector and really could not see any difference. Sony uses a Faroujia processor/upscaler while Epson uses the PixelWorks processor so maybe they are evenly matched. I did notice an improvement from 720P to 1080P(pixel structure no longer visible) as my seating distance is only 9FT from the screen.The color mode naming convention remains unchanged from the HC720/1080, and I have not ventured beyond the factory presets(including lamp in high mode) except for lowering red offset/gain in the 'Natural' color mode. During my first viewing I did immediately notice improved color saturation and black levels, which I am guessing is due to the D5+ panels(HC720) versus the D7 panels and improved processing in the HC6100. Colors are vibrant and skin tones natural without appearing hard or fake(oversaturation). Motion handling is also improved over the HC720, which is especially evident during scenes from Transformers.

BLACK LEVELS
As stated above, I immediately noticed the improved black levels over the HC720 during my initial viewing(factory settings with iris off). There is a small improvement(depending on viewing content) with the iris turned on, but not as much as I would have expected. The iris does work seemlessly on the factory preset(normal), and you can set the speed for off/normal/fast pending your preference. The movie Hitman has many good scenes to test black level and shadow detail(specifically 47's black suit) and the 6100 performed well. The lepals and buttons from his suit were easily visible in dark and mixed scenes without the black level washing out too much or exibiting any crush. Overall I am content with the black levels, but(for example) when watching 4:3 content the sidebars are still a deep, deep grey which for me is somewhat distracting.

LUMEN OUPUT
I have mostly used the Natural color mode for night viewing as the Living Room and Dynamic modes are too bright. However, Living Room mode(with blue offset/gain turned down) is great for day viewing even with my room having southern exposure and blinds not completely closed. I will probably proceed with a high-contrast grey screen since my viewing size is under 100IN.

NOISE OUPUT
I did not notice any difference(fan noise) from the HC720, but this is usually a non-issue unless the projector is less than 3FT from your head and/or the scene is silent. However, the iris does seem to work more quietly which is a bonus.

BOTTOM LINE
I am happy with this projector in almost every aspect except for black level performance(just content). If the HC6500UB is definitely a step up with regard to black levels and the price is within $500.00, than I will probably make the switch despite sacrificing lumens. If not, than I may also entertain the PT-AE3000 based on the very positive reviews it has received and being superior(according to Art/Projector Reviews) to the Mitsubishi HC6500(comparable black levels to the HC6100).

QUESTIONS
A few questions for you guys:
1) What is the acceptable limit for image clarity(focus). For example(using Internet Explorer 7), I can focus the upper left menu pull-downs(File,Edit,etc.) to be perfect, but then the upper right menu pull-downs(Page,Tools,etc.) become slightly de-focused and vice-versa. I have since just focused text at the screen center to keep everything basically even, but is this normal?
2) How do I check for convergence?

EDIT:
HC6100 uses the PixelWorks processor per information(post #71) from georgeorwell(HQV Reon processor is exclusive to HC6500UB/7500UB).


Scott
post #68 of 1639
Scott - thanks for the review.

Not sure though how you can make any real judgements regarding black level and shadow detail projecting onto a brown wall. When you had the HC720 was it also projecting to the brown wall? Before I got a real screen for my Epson Powerlite 1080 I was shooting it on a light yellow wall and thought it looked pretty good. But when I got the screen wow what a huge difference. Would love to hear what you think after you get the screen.
post #69 of 1639
Just found another review for this pj:

http://www.projector.com/reviews/eps...cinema6100.php
post #70 of 1639
Hi Scott ,

Thanks for posting your comments/findings re this pj - was a bit surprised to read in your review that this includes the HQV-Reon-XV scaler, whereas our UK version of this model (TW3000) incorporates the 10-bit pixelworks scaler.
post #71 of 1639
That must be a mistake, the 6100 does not use the Reon scaler.
LL
post #72 of 1639
The manual that is online states that it has HQV Reon-VX. Here is link it is on page 7. files.support.epson.com/pdf/plhc61/plhc61ug.pdf
post #73 of 1639
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgeorwell View Post

That must be a mistake, the 6100 does not use the Reon scaler.

looks like a proprietary chip ?
post #74 of 1639
I went on Epson's website, and they only list the 6100. Is there any official information about the 6500 (UB) and other models? Does anyone know how much the 6500 is supposed to cost?
post #75 of 1639
Would someone venture to state their opinion.....

I am buying one of these PJ's. I think I am getting a good deal on both, and there will be an $800 difference between the 6100 and the HC720, which is considerable.

Between the two, I'm more concerned about black levels and color rendition vs the actual pixel resolution. My decision lies between getting the cheaper HC720 and upgrading it in 2 years to something 1080 with great black levels (the 6500ub or better will likely be going for under $1500), or getting the 6100 now and planning on not upgrading it in the future despite the fact that it probably cannot compete with the black and color rendition of the 6500ub. BTW, the 6500ub when released will likely be out of my budget.

I'll be using this in my living room with decent light control and projected onto a Grandview fixed 92 gray screen.

cheers

ps.....looking for comparisons of the 6100 to the 1080ub, but there are none to be found.
cheers
post #76 of 1639
Does anybody what kinda panels the 6100 uses-inorganic or organic?
post #77 of 1639
Well, got one today to try out. Just to give you a scale of how large this pj is, I put it under an AX200. It's large, but not as large as I expected. A Mits 4900 wouldn't even fit on the shelf the 6100 is sitting on.



Box states, "Pixelworks ICs are used in this product."

I've only had a few minutes with it, but a few notes.

Pros:
*Very BRIGHT. Easily brighter than the AX200, IMO.
*Quiet. Even inches above my head, I could not hear the fan. With the iris off, you can't hear a sound from this thing.
*Out of the box colors are amazing.
*Iris adjustment is completely, visually undetectable.
*Great panel alignment.
*Nice lens adjustment.
*Easy remote and menu adjustment.

Con:
*Iris is very loud. Granted, it is right above my head, but I still rate it louder than the AX200. Ceiling mounted or higher shelf may not be an issue.

I should mention that I thought black level was OK with the iris working, not bad, not great, just OK. I eventually turned the iris off, and the black level improved, as well as shadow detail. For now, I will leave the iris off for the reasons mentioned.

More to follow......
post #78 of 1639
very useful initial info. Please keep us informed.
post #79 of 1639
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgeorwell View Post

Well, got one today to try out. Just to give you a scale of how large this pj is, I put it under an AX200. It's large, but not as large as I expected. A Mits 4900 wouldn't even fit on the shelf the 6100 is sitting on.



Box states, "Pixelworks ICs are used in this product."

I've only had a few minutes with it, but a few notes.

Pros:
*Very BRIGHT. Easily brighter than the AX200, IMO.
*Quiet. Even inches above my head, I could not hear the fan. With the iris off, you can't hear a sound from this thing.
*Out of the box colors are amazing.
*Iris adjustment is completely, visually undetectable.
*Great panel alignment.
*Nice lens adjustment.
*Easy remote and menu adjustment.

Con:
*Iris is very loud. Granted, it is right above my head, but I still rate it louder than the AX200. Ceiling mounted or higher shelf may not be an issue.

I should mention that I thought black level was OK with the iris working, not bad, not great, just OK. I eventually turned the iris off, and the black level improved, as well as shadow detail. For now, I will leave the iris off for the reasons mentioned.

More to follow......

How does it compare to the ax200 please.Being that is now cost twice the price of a ax200.Is it twice as good.Thanks for any info
post #80 of 1639
Quote:
Originally Posted by goosecat View Post

What do people think about this projector

Very underwhelmed. I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but that's my honest opinion. Especially the blacks. It's an obvious step down from the TW2000 (1080UB) based on seeing the two projectors side by side on display. Based on how bad the blacks looks on this, I didn't even bother trying to find a Z700 on display, I ruled out the organic D7 models altogether.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottscb View Post

Looks decent. Looks like a step down model from the TW5000 being released overseas..

The 6100 is being released overseas as the TW3000, the 6500 is being released in Europe as the TW5000 and in Japan as the TW4000.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M@verick View Post

I hope people aren't planning to buy this over the current 1080UB. I think with the recent price drop the 1080UB is still a better buy.

Absolutely, I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrwhite View Post

I believe all of the D6 and D7 panels are inorganic.

All of the D6 panels are inorganic. The D7 panels last year were all inorganic. This year, there are new (120Hz) "D7/C2Fine" panels which are inorganic and "D7" panels which are organic, and found in the TW3000 and Z700.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragster View Post

Does anybody what kinda panels the 6100 uses-inorganic or organic?

Organic. Which I presume plays a big part in why the blacks are worse than the 1080UB and TW2000.
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgeorwell View Post

That must be a mistake, the 6100 does not use the Reon scaler.

That's correct. The manual .PDF file that's been floating around the AVS boards is for both the 6100 and 6500. Both have the Pixelworks chip, while the the 6500 has the HQV Reon-VX sxVX-200 by Silicon Optix as well. (According to some marketing materials I got for the TW4000.)

This is not a bad projector, but if the 1080UB is available for close to the same price, I'd go with that instead.
post #81 of 1639
I would like to know how this compare to the Z700 from Sanyo. Supposedly they use the same D7 panels.

For me the step up to 1080UB or AE300 is $600.
post #82 of 1639
Quote:
Originally Posted by peteer01 View Post

All of the D6 panels are inorganic. The D7 panels last year were all inorganic. This year, there are new (120Hz) "D7/C2Fine" panels which are inorganic and "D7" panels which are organic, and found in the TW3000 and Z700.
Organic. Which I presume plays a big part in why the blacks are worse than the 1080UB and TW2000.
That's correct. The manual .PDF file that's been floating around the AVS boards is for both the 6100 and 6500. Both have the Pixelworks chip, while the the 6500 has the HQV Reon-VX sxVX-200 by Silicon Optix as well. (According to some marketing materials I got for the TW4000.)

This is not a bad projector, but if the 1080UB is available for close to the same price, I'd go with that instead.

This review lists "C2Fine" for the 6100, doesn't help the site's credibility...

http://www.projector.com/reviews/eps...cinema6100.php
post #83 of 1639
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahead View Post

How does it compare to the ax200 please.Being that is now cost twice the price of a ax200.Is it twice as good.Thanks for any info

Yes,,, me too wants to know how the 6100 and the AX200 compare.

I currently have an Epson 720 and was thinking about getting a AX200 "again" since the AX200 prices are so cheap (I like having two projectors in case one suddenly breaks).

Anyhow, I was going to wait on getting a 1080p PJ,,, but if the 6100 totally blows away the AX200 I might re-think my plan.

Thanks much in advance,

Cheers
Davyo
post #84 of 1639
Quote:
Originally Posted by stopdog View Post

Scott - thanks for the review.

Not sure though how you can make any real judgements regarding black level and shadow detail projecting onto a brown wall. When you had the HC720 was it also projecting to the brown wall? Before I got a real screen for my Epson Powerlite 1080 I was shooting it on a light yellow wall and thought it looked pretty good. But when I got the screen wow what a huge difference. Would love to hear what you think after you get the screen.

stopdog,

The HC720 was also shooting on the brown wall, but between the two projectors the 6100 was better with blacks. I agree with your comments regarding picture quality improvement when using a good screen, which also has me spending much more time now in the screen forums. BTW - what screen did you choose and what factors played into your decision?


Scott
post #85 of 1639
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgeorwell View Post

That must be a mistake, the 6100 does not use the Reon scaler.

georgeorwell,

Thanks for posting that content breakdown list. I checked the box/packaging(no comments regarding processor type) and owner's manuel(HQV Reon/Page #7) but it appears you are correct. The manuel usually states the differences between the 6100/6500UB, but the processor designation must have been overlooked.


Scott
post #86 of 1639
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxillo View Post

Would someone venture to state their opinion.....

I am buying one of these PJ's. I think I am getting a good deal on both, and there will be an $800 difference between the 6100 and the HC720, which is considerable.

Between the two, I'm more concerned about black levels and color rendition vs the actual pixel resolution. My decision lies between getting the cheaper HC720 and upgrading it in 2 years to something 1080 with great black levels (the 6500ub or better will likely be going for under $1500), or getting the 6100 now and planning on not upgrading it in the future despite the fact that it probably cannot compete with the black and color rendition of the 6500ub. BTW, the 6500ub when released will likely be out of my budget.

I'll be using this in my living room with decent light control and projected onto a Grandview fixed 92 gray screen.

cheers

ps.....looking for comparisons of the 6100 to the 1080ub, but there are none to be found.
cheers

maxillo,

I have owned both projectors(HC720/6100 - though not concurrently) and the HC6100 definitely shows better blacks and shadow detail. Granted, this was projecting onto a neutral brown colored wall but the difference was noticeable. However, the HC720 is a great projector and your grey screen will definitely improve the black levels. But is the black level performance between these two projectors worth an additional $800-$900? IMO not really.
post #87 of 1639
SF-1, you could order samples from different screens, white and gray. See what gives best blacks.
post #88 of 1639
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgeorwell View Post

Well, got one today to try out. Just to give you a scale of how large this pj is, I put it under an AX200.






Hey George

Still wondering what your thoughts are on how the 6100 compares to the AX200 in terms of picture quality ONLY.

Im so on the fence between getting another AX200 or spending the extra money for the 6100 if the price difference is justified by a great increase in picture quality over the AX200.

Thanks much in advance George
Cheers
Davyo
post #89 of 1639
Sorry I haven't had a chance to respond, been gone for the holidays. However, I have since had a few more hours on this pj....The Dark Knight, Beowulf, and a lots of test scenes. I continue to remain impressed. Both of those are dark movies and I found shadow detail and blacks to be good. I have an HP screen, and usually I can dial back brightness to get better blacks, but so far I have stayed in the 0 to -5 range, and blacks still look good.

I think it's a little unfair to compare this to the AX200, because it's a 720p, and as noted, half the price. For my own purposes, I did do some testing sending the same signal to both and comparing, and definitely prefer the 6100. It's brighter, colors are more accurate, less visible pixels than even smoothscreen, better contrast, and completely quiet. If I were choosing between the two right now, I would definitely get the 6100 (keep in mind I'm a huge AX200 fan). Aside from having a better pic, there are price/return reasons I won't mention for obvious reasons.

Also, I did some more testing with the iris, and either this one is defective, or it's a bad design. I'll be interested to hear what others think, but I find it unusable due to the noise.

Finally, I did inquire to Epson about the scaler and they confirmed it is the Pixelworks. It does scale better than the AX200, but not as good as displays I've seen with the Reon. I really think the 6500 will be well worth the extra for scaler alone, not to mention all the other upgrades.
post #90 of 1639
Is it true that this PJ has only 85% vertical lens shift (down) and 96.3% (up)? Source: http://www.visualapex.com/ProductSup...inema-6100.pdf
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