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"Fringe" on Fox HD - Page 181

post #5401 of 6427
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhaller View Post

Dunham is ex-military? I musta missed that somewhere. I don't remember all the bits and details, but I was always under the impression that she was just a straight-laced G-gal. Which also explained quite a bit of her wooden, cold behavior early on, which everyone complained about.

Edit: I think it was explained that she was a special investigator for the military in the pilot. Whether she was actually military, I don't remember.

There was a flashback of her in uniform, on guard duty I think, in season one. My only complaint with her makeup is that sometimes it seems too heavy and hides her freckles, while other times her freckles are uncovered.
post #5402 of 6427
If you look closely at celebrities, you see that they're usually far from perfect physical specimens. Clever makeup and a finely tuned hair do cover a multitude of flaws.

OK, since the really important ideas have been covered so well here, I thought I'd branch off a bit. Let's talk Fringe/Eureka. There are some Eureka spoilers in this post, so stop here if you have Eureka episodes waiting to be viewed on your DVR.

Most importantly, last Monday's episode of Eureka featured Salli Richardson-Whitfield (Allison Blake) in her underwear. My apologies to Anna Torv, but I'm still trying to pull it together enough to talk about that scene without drooling all over myself. After having two or three children, how can she possibly look like that?

Second, Allison's son Kevin used a special antenna in Eureka to find the missing crew of the Titan mission. That metal antenna dish was *exactly* the same dish (or dish pair) that David Robert Jones set up on the roof tops in Fringe.

In last week's finale, Peter and Olivia thwart Bell's attempt to take his "arc" out to sea to escape the collapse of the two universes. That "arc" was in fact a cargo freighter with huge storage containers bearing the creatures to populate his brave new world. A couple of weeks before on Eureka, Jack Carter and Jo Lupo thwart the plans of the evil Consortium to take Eureka's greatest minds out to sea aboard a cargo freighter loaded with huge storage containers. In both cases, scientists cleverly determine the location of the freighter so the evil doers can be stopped.

I love both of these shows. I think Eureka is every bit as good as Fringe, and it probably has fewer plot holes. Both series will end soon. I'll probably think about Fringe's brain-twisting impossibilities for a long time to come. Just not as long as Salli Richardson-Whitfield's bedroom scene. I'll definitely think about that for a long time, to come.
post #5403 of 6427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I think Eureka is every bit as good as Fringe, and it probably has fewer plot holes.

Oh come on, that's just ridiculous. Eureka might have less plot holes but that's only because it's stories are so generically simplistic and formulaic. You can see exactly where each story will go, right up to the point where Carter stumbles across the solution using his everyman logic every single week.

Eureka is fun sure, but it's fluff pure and simple with some lightweight dramatic overtones. As the show has progressed it's actually got less ambitious and more ridiculous. The cast cull has meant that every story revolves around the same characters just swapping jobs because nobody else works in the town apparently. Even the gadgets and science are just the same old, same old.

Fringe by contrast has become more ambitious and more challenging to the viewer and it's gadgets and science are far more inventive and better executed.
post #5404 of 6427
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhaller View Post

Dunham is ex-military? I musta missed that somewhere. I don't remember all the bits and details, but I was always under the impression that she was just a straight-laced G-gal. Which also explained quite a bit of her wooden, cold behavior early on, which everyone complained about.

Edit: I think it was explained that she was a special investigator for the military in the pilot. Whether she was actually military, I don't remember.

Oh, possibly. It's covered in the original episode with the beacon (from Season 1). Pretty sure she salutes a commanding officer at one point, though.
post #5405 of 6427
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Oh come on, that's just ridiculous. Eureka might have less plot holes but that's only because it's stories are so generically simplistic and formulaic. You can see exactly where each story will go, right up to the point where Carter stumbles across the solution using his everyman logic every single week.

Eureka is fun sure, but it's fluff pure and simple with some lightweight dramatic overtones. As the show has progressed it's actually got less ambitious and more ridiculous. The cast cull has meant that every story revolves around the same characters just swapping jobs because nobody else works in the town apparently. Even the gadgets and science are just the same old, same old.

Fringe by contrast has become more ambitious and more challenging to the viewer and it's gadgets and science are far more inventive and better executed.

So what's not "fluff" about Fringe? Surely you're not arguing that Fringe "science" is more realistic than Eureka "science." Fringe may be more serious in tone, but it's no "deeper." They both wade into ridiculous waters with alarming regularity. It's fairly easy to defend Eureka's "world view" as more coherent than Fringe's, in terms of the science and the story telling. Call it predictable, but at least Eureka doesn't lead us down blind alleys and dismiss important characters and story elements quite as frequently as Fringe.

I really like Fringe, but I get so frustrated with it sometimes. It practically demands that I give serious thought to what appear to be vital story elements, and then it casually tosses them aside. I feel foolish for having invested myself in trying to figure out the "mystery." I've mentioned the Sam Weiss character before. Here was a man we were led to believe had preternatural powers, only to find out he was just a regular guy. I have a funny feeling that September's prediction that Olivia "must die" in all possible futures has been "explained" to us in this season finale, and that's all we're ever going to get. If so, that's another example of a disappointing resolution to a dramatic story element. I love Fringe's unpredictability, but sometimes if feels like the writers are as Lost as I am.

So, for me Eureka is no more inexcusable for its predictability than Fringe is for its inconsistency. Both offer Star Trek levels of techno-babble to "explain" their weird science, and neither hesitates to offer up outrageously ridiculous plots. What's more absurd - trees that can grow 50 feet tall in 5 seconds, or a man who can live after his heart has been cut from his chest? Killer nanites that assume human form or mercury-blooded invaders from the "other side"? Think about it. I won't argue with your choice.

I can "believe" in Eureka just as easily as I can "believe" in Fringe. I'm invested in both sets of characters. For me, the actors on Eureka are at least as good as the actors on Fringe (John Noble excepted). If Eureka gets from the start of each episode to the end on the same familiar road, Fringe sometimes drives down roads that it later says never existed. At the end of the day, it's fairly easy for me to hold Eureka up next to Fringe and say they're both good shows. You're entitled to your opinion that that's ridiculous, but ridiculous is relative. There's probably someone in your own family who would consider it a massive waste of time to give either of these shows any serious thought. I know I have such people in my family.
post #5406 of 6427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

OK great epi, but who was the person hanging in penny's?( the chick from Lost house?)
Djoel

Her character on LOST was Charlotte S. Lewis (C.S. Lewis)

Her eyeball movements in the Fringe finale was freaky. I'd say that takes some skill and practice.
post #5407 of 6427
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdkerbow View Post

Her eyeball movements in the Fringe finale was freaky. I'd say that takes some skill and practice.

I'd say that takes some great vfx/CGI work.

There's not a human being alive who could do that; it's impossible. Not for chameleons, though. Being a lizard has its perks.
post #5408 of 6427
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

I'd say that takes some great vfx/CGI work.

There's not a human being alive who could do that; it's impossible. Not for chameleons, though. Being a lizard has its perks.

While I agree that those were CG enhancements, as well as what seemed a slight distorting of facial muscles, I personally share an interesting skill with both Julia Louis Dreyfuss (who I saw do this on Letterman recently) & Mel Gibson (who did it in Lethal Weapon 2) - cross either eye independantly. Freaks people out when I do it.

But nowhere near as freaky as what we saw on FRINGE. Those chameleon eyes on the red head were digital FX, folks.
post #5409 of 6427
Here's a group of timelines that do the best job I've seen yet of explaining the series.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2xJ...m8/edit?pli=1#
post #5410 of 6427
Quote:
Originally Posted by URFloorMatt View Post

Here's a group of timelines that do the best job I've seen yet of explaining the series.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2xJ...m8/edit?pli=1#

post #5411 of 6427
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdkerbow View Post

Her character on LOST was Charlotte S. Lewis (C.S. Lewis)

Her eyeball movements in the Fringe finale was freaky. I'd say that takes some skill and practice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

I'd say that takes some great vfx/CGI work.

There's not a human being alive who could do that; it's impossible. Not for chameleons, though. Being a lizard has its perks.


Freaky it was, as well as it being CGI... Either way I enjoy the whole show. What I don't remember how was it that Peter knew of the tech of bring back a dead person to tell tails. Nina was a little surprised by it, I know Peter arrived from a different time line, which should have explain that to Nina, but still don't remember Peter or Walter doing the post morbid procedure before. If someone care to refresh my mind please do.

DJoel
post #5412 of 6427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post


Freaky it was, as well as it being CGI... Either way I enjoy the whole show. What I don't remember how was it that Peter knew of the tech of bring back a dead person to tell tails. Nina was a little surprised by it, I know Peter arrived from a different time line, which should have explain that to Nina, but still don't remember Peter or Walter doing the post morbid procedure before. If someone care to refresh my mind please do.

DJoel

Season 1 John Scott as well as a few others I believe.
post #5413 of 6427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Season 1 John Scott as well as a few others I believe.



Yeah but that was done by Nina, Massive Dynamics no? I don't think Peter was aware of it being it was behind secretive doors..

Thanks

Djoel
post #5414 of 6427
I watched the last three episodes again last evening, and it seems rather obvious to me, and I apologize if this has been said pages back and I missed it, it seems obvious to me that they had intended Jones to be the bad guy the whole time. I'm sure they were in negotiations to get back Nemoy, but were not expecting that to happen. They wrote it in such a way that if it were to happen, then they could re-position Jones to be the primary agent for Nemoy, rather than the real evil mastermind himself. Since it happened, they filmed a quick, and too easy, death for Jones to Bell could step in as the real bad guy. That's why it seemed so abrupt, because it WAS.

Again, aploogies if this has been said before.
post #5415 of 6427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

I watched the last three episodes again last evening, and it seems rather obvious to me, and I apologize if this has been said pages back and I missed it, it seems obvious to me that they had intended Jones to be the bad guy the whole time. I'm sure they were in negotiations to get back Nemoy, but were not expecting that to happen. They wrote it in such a way that if it were to happen, then they could re-position Jones to be the primary agent for Nemoy, rather than the real evil mastermind himself. Since it happened, they filmed a quick, and too easy, death for Jones to Bell could step in as the real bad guy. That's why it seemed so abrupt, because it WAS.

Again, aploogies if this has been said before.

That seems plausible to me. There was never any hint, that I can recall, of Jones answering to someone else.
post #5416 of 6427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post


Yeah but that was done by Nina, Massive Dynamics no? I don't think Peter was aware of it being it was behind secretive doors..

Thanks

Djoel

My memory isn't clear but the Fringe team was brought in on it later on.
post #5417 of 6427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Call it predictable, but at least Eureka doesn't lead us down blind alleys and dismiss important characters and story elements quite as frequently as Fringe.

The entire conceit of Eureka now dismisses important elements and every time they decide to spin up some time travel storyline the show falls apart by just glossing over everything that would change. If the Bridge room had been on Eureka it would have formed the basis for one story and then ignored for the rest of the series.

Eureka is supposedly about a top secret research facility that hides behind the facade of a normal small town. That was the premise which Carter was introduced to in the pilot. Yet every season they just continuously ignore that to the point where they have robots casually flying down the street, a hologram on every corner, spacecraft launching, various explosions or massive atmospheric anomalies every single week. Forget the press, foreign agencies or just locals in the nearby towns, YouTube would notice that. Who needs Wikileaks for top secret project info when you can just walk into the town and see it all in the streets every week?

Eureka has constantly dismissed plot elements and characters every season with a wave of the hand. From Stark, Taggart, Tess (and the many other scientists who are never seen from again after one appearance) to the weak resolution to the Kevin story where they just did some time-travel magic to turn him into a regular kid and ignored the autism and magic glowing alien ball underneath the facility. Another element they then also forgot existed. Again.

The extent of the plot writing on Eureka is all convenient simplistic resolutions, whereby Carter will use basic high school physics to outsmart whatever is going wrong that week - "The automated cleaning laser ray is attracted to magnetic particles? What about if we get a big magnet and I drive it into the light refracting shield dome we are also concurrently inventing this episode!?" There is nothing inventive about Eureka's science-fiction. It's all lasers, robots and holograms. I'll take a quantum-entangled typewriter over their entire "genius" output.

If Eureka didn't have such a charismatic bunch of actors it would be no better than the movies Syfy throw together on Saturday night and even then the cast are never pushed very far. Compare that to Fringe where nearly every season results in multiple character performances, shifts and interesting scenes. Eureka doesn't even try to be ambitious and every major plot line will always return to the same basic structure of every other season, with just a few job titles being exchanged and a romantic complication.

This last season of Eureka could have actually done something new by having half the staff on Mars (even if nobody in the world noticed - again) and half on the base with a jump between the two. But once more, it was back to the same garage and high street. Same location, same relationships, same stories.

Fringe has an excuse for trying to wrap things up fast. It aims high and has never really known if it will return. Eureka doesn't. It's aspirations are low and the show is always told well in advance when it's been renewed.

I give respect to a show that tries to do something creatively ambitious and brave even if it fails spectacularly. Fringe has passed that level many times over now. Very few shows on television have done that. Eureka isn't even in the top twenty.
post #5418 of 6427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

I watched the last three episodes again last evening, and it seems rather obvious to me, and I apologize if this has been said pages back and I missed it, it seems obvious to me that they had intended Jones to be the bad guy the whole time. I'm sure they were in negotiations to get back Nemoy, but were not expecting that to happen. They wrote it in such a way that if it were to happen, then they could re-position Jones to be the primary agent for Nemoy, rather than the real evil mastermind himself. Since it happened, they filmed a quick, and too easy, death for Jones to Bell could step in as the real bad guy. That's why it seemed so abrupt, because it WAS.

I don't see how Jones' death was any more abrupt that his death in Season 1. Personally, my assumption from the beginning was that he was working for Bell. Otherwise, they would've established a clearer motivation for his actions.
post #5419 of 6427
Quote:
Originally Posted by URFloorMatt View Post

I don't see how Jones' death was any more abrupt that his death in Season 1. Personally, my assumption from the beginning was that he was working for Bell. Otherwise, they would've established a clearer motivation for his actions.

Jones had the same motivations Bell did - gigantic ego and megalomania. Building a new world where his rules would apply.
post #5420 of 6427
In season 1 jones was trying to get to Bell to prove himself.

So why does it seem so far fetched that he'd be working for Bell in this new timeline this season?
post #5421 of 6427
I know it is a pipe dream... but I would love to see some stunt casting of Cate Blanchett as an older or alternate version of Olivia.

The first time I saw the promo for season one Fringe, I thought "how did they get Cate Blanchett on a TV series"...

Both from Australia... and could be mistaken for siblings quite easily. It would be awesome stunt casting, which is why I doubt it would ever happen... but I can dream.
post #5422 of 6427
Quote:


I really like Fringe, but I get so frustrated with it sometimes.

Couldn't of said it better.
post #5423 of 6427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

Freaky it was, as well as it being CGI... Either way I enjoy the whole show. What I don't remember how was it that Peter knew of the tech of bring back a dead person to tell tails. Nina was a little surprised by it, I know Peter arrived from a different time line, which should have explain that to Nina, but still don't remember Peter or Walter doing the post morbid procedure before. If someone care to refresh my mind please do.

DJoel

Walter did this procedure in his lab on someone in the original timeline and Peter was there.
post #5424 of 6427
Quote:
Originally Posted by URFloorMatt View Post

I don't see how Jones' death was any more abrupt that his death in Season 1. Personally, my assumption from the beginning was that he was working for Bell. Otherwise, they would've established a clearer motivation for his actions.

Agree, even Walter didn't think he was working by himself, and this was before he figured out that Belly was behind everything. If he had lived was he planning on switching to some non human form? Bell seemed quite clear that there was no room for traditional humans in his brave new world.
post #5425 of 6427
Quote:
Originally Posted by acebreathe View Post

Agree, even Walter didn't think he was working by himself, and this was before he figured out that Belly was behind everything. If he had lived was he planning on switching to some non human form? Bell seemed quite clear that there was no room for traditional humans in his brave new world.

Bell said he was dying. The Cortexiphan he was giving himself was only slowing the spread of his cancer. He said he was still going to still die.
post #5426 of 6427
Was talking about Jones taking different form not Bell.
post #5427 of 6427
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Jones had the same motivations Bell did - gigantic ego and megalomania. Building a new world where his rules would apply.

Bell's motivation was much more specific than that. The original idea was Walter's. That's why he had parts of his brain cut out.
post #5428 of 6427
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

The entire conceit of Eureka now dismisses important elements and every time they decide to spin up some time travel storyline the show falls apart by just glossing over everything that would change. If the Bridge room had been on Eureka it would have formed the basis for one story and then ignored for the rest of the series.

Eureka is supposedly about a top secret research facility that hides behind the facade of a normal small town. That was the premise which Carter was introduced to in the pilot. Yet every season they just continuously ignore that to the point where they have robots casually flying down the street, a hologram on every corner, spacecraft launching, various explosions or massive atmospheric anomalies every single week. Forget the press, foreign agencies or just locals in the nearby towns, YouTube would notice that. Who needs Wikileaks for top secret project info when you can just walk into the town and see it all in the streets every week?

Eureka has constantly dismissed plot elements and characters every season with a wave of the hand. From Stark, Taggart, Tess (and the many other scientists who are never seen from again after one appearance) to the weak resolution to the Kevin story where they just did some time-travel magic to turn him into a regular kid and ignored the autism and magic glowing alien ball underneath the facility. Another element they then also forgot existed. Again.

The extent of the plot writing on Eureka is all convenient simplistic resolutions, whereby Carter will use basic high school physics to outsmart whatever is going wrong that week - "The automated cleaning laser ray is attracted to magnetic particles? What about if we get a big magnet and I drive it into the light refracting shield dome we are also concurrently inventing this episode!?" There is nothing inventive about Eureka's science-fiction. It's all lasers, robots and holograms. I'll take a quantum-entangled typewriter over their entire "genius" output.

If Eureka didn't have such a charismatic bunch of actors it would be no better than the movies Syfy throw together on Saturday night and even then the cast are never pushed very far. Compare that to Fringe where nearly every season results in multiple character performances, shifts and interesting scenes. Eureka doesn't even try to be ambitious and every major plot line will always return to the same basic structure of every other season, with just a few job titles being exchanged and a romantic complication.

This last season of Eureka could have actually done something new by having half the staff on Mars (even if nobody in the world noticed - again) and half on the base with a jump between the two. But once more, it was back to the same garage and high street. Same location, same relationships, same stories.

Fringe has an excuse for trying to wrap things up fast. It aims high and has never really known if it will return. Eureka doesn't. It's aspirations are low and the show is always told well in advance when it's been renewed.

I give respect to a show that tries to do something creatively ambitious and brave even if it fails spectacularly. Fringe has passed that level many times over now. Very few shows on television have done that. Eureka isn't even in the top twenty.

I love Fringe. It's thought provoking and moving. It gets my juices flowing like few shows ever have. Some of the episodes have been brilliant. Take the one in which Steven Root plays the husband who alters time to try to bring back his Alzheimers-stricken wife. Or the one in which Alt-Astrid loses her father and crosses over to try to come to terms with it by meeting her other self. Both of those almost brought me to tears. (OK, the Astrid episode DID bring me to tears.) A similar episode on Eureka involved Jack traveling back in time to stop alternate timelines from destroying one another. It had a similar impact on me. OTOH, each show has had what I consider monumental failures. I'm sure we all have episodes we hated (including the people who make the show).

On balance, Fringe's vision is bigger, and if it can come close to reconciling its schizophrenic science fiction story lines in the final 13 episodes, I'll concede that it was the better show. But from my chair, that's a big if. I can just as easily see it leaving me confused and dissatisfied, because right now the pieces of the show aren't fitting together very well for me. Maybe that's because I'm not that sharp, or maybe it's because the vision of the show runners isn't crystal clear.

I'm not arguing that Eureka is a great show. It's fun and breezy science fiction with some fine performances. I agree that Fringe aspires to be more, but that's why it may disappoint so much. Despite its promise, Fringe has yet to prove to me that it's a great show. If this season finale had been the last episode, it would have been far from it in my mind.
post #5429 of 6427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

I watched the last three episodes again last evening, and it seems rather obvious to me, and I apologize if this has been said pages back and I missed it, it seems obvious to me that they had intended Jones to be the bad guy the whole time. I'm sure they were in negotiations to get back Nemoy, but were not expecting that to happen. They wrote it in such a way that if it were to happen, then they could re-position Jones to be the primary agent for Nemoy, rather than the real evil mastermind himself. Since it happened, they filmed a quick, and too easy, death for Jones to Bell could step in as the real bad guy. That's why it seemed so abrupt, because it WAS.

Again, aploogies if this has been said before.

Sorta on the same page; I think season 4 in general was a bit choppy simply b/c they didn't know if the plug would be pulled on them or not. It felt like the show was teetering between sticking to the storyline they wanted to tell and trying to wrap things up in case of cancellation.
post #5430 of 6427
Regardless of where the story is going or has been so far.....just thought we could spice up the thread a bit with a pic of Josh Jackson & his smokin' hot girlfriend Diane Kruger snapped @ Cannes yesterday.




And....resume geek talk.
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