"Fringe" on Fox HD - Page 182

I wonder if , next season, Peter ( & us), will get back to/get to see "our" Olivia, Walter ect ... The ones who "knew" him, & that the veiwers generally consider the orginal & "non alternate" characters ...
Back in the early '70's, the original Dark Shadows, when cancelled abruptly, a hastily written finale ended in a "Parralell Universe" storyline they were in ..
The viewers never got "back to" the Main characters/world of Barnabas ect ... & that ticked off some viewers ..
Kind of reminds me of where Fringe it at at the moment ...

My take is that the original timeline is gone.

The series doesn't seem to be based on the "infinite universes" model, where every choice spawns a new universe. The Observers erased the original universe by making it so Peter never existed -- they didn't just create a new one, leaving the original one where everyone remembers Peter in place.

So the Blueverse is gone. But there's a factor the Observers have not accounted for -- yet unexplained -- that made their deletion unsuccessful, allowing Peter (and memories of him, at least in Olivia) reassert themselves.

It's the lack of thorough explanations for stuff like this that concern me, if that was really the finale the producers intended.

I think this is wrong. This universe is the same universe we've always seen. It's the universe Peter would have grown up in had he not drowned in Reiden Lake. AmberOlivia isn't a separate person from original Olivia; she's the same Olivia we've seen since the Pilot, but her memory and experiences have changed because the timeline was changed.

If Peter could travel to any of an infinite number of parallel universes (which he cannot), he could travel to one where he was never deleted when he stepped into the machine, and the Olivia there would have the memories and experiences we saw in Seasons 1-3 without having experienced Season 4. But she would not be "his" Olivia, and it would not be "his" universe.

Point is, I think you're confusing what a multiverse theory means. Changing the timeline within a single universe doesn't change the universe, or disprove the existence of infinite universes. As Walter has explained, there are infinite universes. The reason that they can travel freely (relatively speaking) between Red and Blue is because of the unique resonances of the two universes.

Oy. My head hurts...

Exactly. That's what bothers me, too. Fringe can't seem to make up its mind about what kind of science fiction tale it's telling. Is it about multiple universes, with possible "brane" collisions? Is it about time travel and altered time lines? Are the Observers protectors or villains? Is it basically a love story where emotions and feelings are the only true realities. I can't tell, and had the finale been the only explanation we were going to get, it would have failed pretty badly in my mind. Instead of answering questions, it opened up several fresh cans of worms. And that's what I'm afraid of for next year. If Fringe can't do a better job of pulling together these disjointed notions, it's been a science fiction failure. What sense does it make to ask serious questions if you're not going to provide a few satisfying answers? Inquiring minds want to know.

I did a poor job of saying what I meant, which was that the original "blue" universe is permanently changed, rather than a new one having been spawned.

But I do think that Fringe is not assuming the existence of infinite universes -- that every crux creates multiple branches. Or at least it's ignoring the possibility and for the purposes of the show there are only Blue (now amber) and Red.

I'll bring up Eureka once more and then drop it. So what if Eureka aims fairly low with its science fiction? It pretty consistently hits the mark with warmth and humor. In my mind, Fringe is no better if it aims high but ends up spraying its arrows wildly into a corn field.

All those questions are clearly answered.

Is it about multiple universes? Of course, we've seen one. Just because they only show one doesn't negate the concept at all. The only reason we see a singular alternate universe is because that was the one that Walter punched a hole into.

Time travel? Yes. Along the single worldline of the blue universe which the Observers adjusted badly. Because that's the only universe the show takes place in now. Which is now amber due to the tampering.

Are The Observers good or bad? That's frankly a pedantic critique. Are humans good or bad? Depends on the human doesn't it? The alignment of The Observers we've seen has never been changed. September has always been on the side of the Fringe team and the rest have served their own purposes.

Is Eureka a comedy or drama? Is it about poor time travel and changing the timeline or alternate universes? Is Beverley a protector or villain? I really can't tell.

That explains it very clearly.

The Observers never created a new universe in the show by changing events. They just manipulated the universe we see during Peter's lifespan. They did it badly too, since they left traces of him behind and their adjustments didn't work for everyone.

That doesn't mean to say that every action since Peter's death didn't create new (and unstable) universes, just that the show doesn't take place in them. Sliders and Charlie Jade never showed what happened in a billion universes either but that doesn't mean they didn't exist. The shows never had the reason or mechanics to go there.

I thought...in simplest terms, as explained by September...that the deletion of Peter was unsuccessful because of the "love" (or however it was explained) that everyone on the team had for him. September was tasked with wiping him from the timeline for good but chose not to.

As I understand it, the Blueverse exists, but not the original timeline as we saw it during seasons 1-3.

Well, let's hope there is a feasible explanation about why the neutral, impartial Observers suddenly decide to take over the planet at that specific time (2015?) instead of at any point in the hundreds/thousands of years that they have been on the watching. Or at the very least, a trail of bread crumbs over the last several seasons that lead us to that moment. I'm hoping that this storyline was in the cards all along, and not just a desperation hail-mary from the writers. Wish I had time to go back and watch seasons 1-3 and look for clues.

well at the basic level you wouldn't want to take over the planet until cable TV has been invented and nicely appointed apartments are available. I mean who would want to rule from a castle with no plumbing?

If its like The 4400 they could have gone back to a pivotal moment in contemporary history to either ensure their dominance or prevent the start of their own demise.

At least they didn't go back to be eaten by dinosaurs.

Wasn't it said they didn't go back until after their invasion. Who's to say they are neutral? Or impartial? They are just making sure events follow a certain path. September when he interfered with the natural events caused a whole mother set of events to change. We have only really been introduced to a very small number of the overall population as well. Much like humans they may not all agree on the same things. If someone went back and all they met where Ghandi, Mother Teresa, ect they wouldn't think humans were that bad. Remember the invasion hasn't happened yet so we may never get an explanation, but with the last scene from this season I doubt it. All the jumping around can make it confusing I guess as they jumped forward for that episode to events that haven't happened yet only to jump back. Much like when Olivia told September about the future and he didn't know about it because it hadn't happened yet to him only the future him.

That'd be "much like today's humans". They're what's left of humanity in 600 years after Earth's environment has been completely depleted; apparently no women or body hair survives . Coming back to invade the past in 2015 seems like yet another modification of the timeline--difficult to avoid paradox with that one. If you come back and screw around with your ancestors, how do you get born to come back and screw around with your ancestors?

That only applies with a single universe theory, like the movie Primer or the time travel season of Lost.

Theoretically the moment you go back and start changing things you can never jump forward to where you came from in your original timeline, since you will have already started a new branch from that point you arrived in the past. It doesn't matter then if you are not born in that timeline's future since you are already living there anyway. If you return to the point you jumped you will just experience the timeline you altered by jumping back.

The further into the past you travel, the less likely the time you came from would be the same as when you left.

Unless it's Terra Nova, in which case you'll get wiped out before humans arrive on the planet anyway!

See how much more confusing it all becomes when you add in different timelines on top of multiple universes? Too much of a good thing, I guess.

I wonder if The Machine will still play a part or if they are completely done with that. All we know is that "Walter built it in the future and sent it back through time".

Ha-ha!...I see what you did there!

We also know that the original Fringe team were the 1st people. There was a little more information in the Fringe comics "Beyond the Fringe" which have been deemed show canon.

A subtle point that has not really been discussed...

The Observers appear to only have one version of themselves.

There is not a red and blue September. September has been in both universes and did this before Walter crossed over.

The timeline change also did not effect September... he remembered both timelines.

So... if they are the future of humanity, they are the future of humanity in only one of the two universes most likely, otherwise there would be some duplicates.

This tells me the other universe still has some part to play in all of this.

According to Walter, the Blueverse ("our" world) resonates in the key of C. Redverse in the key of G (a perfect 5th above C). It would be safe to assume using the show's "science" that it would be easier to see/access universes that resonate harmonically well together, with the most dissonant being the hardest to reach. I assume the most dissonant relations would be the where the"dark timeline" and Evil Abed reside (A bad COMMUNITY/FRINGE tie in joke to celebrate both shows returning in the fall on Fridays - sorry)

The redverse being a harmonic perfect 5th to our world would seem to be the most logically "easy" to reach.

And you don't even need multiple universes or timelines to avoid the Grandfather Paradox either! In a linear timeline the fact you were born allowing you to go into the past and that history has already occurred, means that while in the past you never killed your grandfather anyway.

History was already written before you jumped back and you were already accounted for. Lost did it that way and it worked very well.

Time travel is easy to accommodate as long as you stick to some basic rules. In a single timeline you already exist during your lifetime so you will see your past self there if you jump to any point before you started time travel. In multiple timelines you can never jump into the same future you left from and you either never existed or you were born and another version of you is already there living a different life.

TV/Business Notes
Science Channel Snags 'Fringe' in Syndication Deal
By Philiana Ng, The Hollywood Reporter - May 23 2012

Fox's Fringe will live on.

Discovery Communications' cable network Science Channel has snagged off-network syndication rights to the sci-fi cult drama, a source confirms to The Hollywood Reporter. The deal is said to be non-exclusive, which will allow studio Warner Bros. TV to offer another syndication window to a streaming service.

The news comes one month after the network renewed the low-rated critical darling for a fifth and final 13-episode season, enabling Fringe to reach the all-important 100-episode mark for syndication. The series, which was J.J. Abrams, Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci, was moved to Friday nights in its third season, and hit ratings lows on multiple occasions in the advertiser-coveted 18-49 demo this past season. The drama hovered around 3 million viewers, according to Nielsen.

The perennial bubble show has maintained a vocal fan base, with critical and awards support, including two Emmy nominations in technical categories.

Fringe reruns will join a network schedule that already includes Ricky Gervais' An Idiot Abroad and reruns of Nathan Fillion's cult drama Firefly. Fringe's John Noble will host the six-part series Dark Matters: Twisted But True on Science, premiering Aug. 31.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...channel-328844

So much for those saying the show was way to serialized for any syndication.

Interesting home for FRINGE reruns, although having Noble popping up to host another show makes for good tie-in cross promotion. And I'm sure WB is happy to know future FRINGE $$ will still be rolling in.

Wonder if they'll air FRINGE & FIREFLY reruns together?

That's not a guarantee it will finish it's run. FNL lasted half a season in syndication on ABC Family.

http://www.deadline.com/2012/05/seve...dcut-regulars/


"Losing his series regular status for the final 13-episode season of Fringe is Seth Gabel. "

Saw the writing on the wall there when they needed to cut costs for the final season.

Rather uninteresting to them from of the lack of revenue they will receive. It's not even exclusive...

He moved to the Redverse, I wasn't expecting him back. Especially as indicators point to the final season being future-centric in Amberverse.

It does not negate a potential "special appearence/guest star" moment for Gabel.

Still do not think we have seen the last of the Redverse folks, closed portal or not.

From the "Hot Off The Press" Thread (top of 'HDTV Programming' page)

TV Notes
'Fringe' Co-Showrunner Jeff Pinkner Departs Before Final Season
By Tim Kenneally, TheWrap.com - Jun. 19, 2012

"Fringe" is heading into its fifth and final season, but it's doing so without the man who helped guide the series.

Jeff Pinkner, who's served as co-showrunner on the series since 2008, has left the show to pursue other projects ahead of its 13-episode final season.

"For four years, J.H. Wyman and Jeff Pinkner have worked tirelessly as a team to keep all the worlds in order on 'Fringe,'" co-creator and executive producer J.J. Abrams said of the departure. "We're thankful for the invaluable contributions Jeff has made to the show and of course wish him well and look forward to working together in the future."

Abrams added, "J.H. Wyman's importance to 'Fringe' cannot be overstated, however, and I'm thrilled that he will continue as showrunner for the concluding chapters of our story. We can't wait for our fans to see what we have in store for them in the wild conclusion of 'Fringe.'"

http://www.thewrap.com/tv/article/fringe-co-showrunner-jeff-pinkner-departs-final-season-44886

If Pinkner's departure means Abrams may stick his toes back into the 'Fringe' universe for the stretch run, I'd consider that a net gain for the fans. JJ's problem has always been birthing the baby then becoming an absentee dad.