How exactly is HD on demand supposed to compete against BD or HD DVD?  

That really looks more like the result of a corrupt data frame which compounds the problem for following frames, until a complete new picture arrives in the stream. It could have emerged during the transmission of the data or as a hiccup in the encoding itself, I would guess.

Regardless, right now it can't. The downloads would be huge and take a long time for most people. Besides that most VOD for HD is probably 720p at the max.

Maybe someday it will be just fine, but I'm pretty wary right now.

It's 1080p24 on satellite. For people with 42" Vizios, HD PPV/VOD likely look just fine. Moreover, the HD VOD stuff doesn't have them there black bars that seem to annoy most non-film buffs. Yeah, the audio isn't lossless or even high res lossy but most people don't care.

Yup, some people will never get it. As long as they don't have to leave their chair and can just press a button to watch it, thats all that matters!

I agree about the convenience factor of VOD but don't forget that physiologically, paying a $3-4 rental fee for each movie at a time is easier to swallow than getting a cable bill that is 20-30 extra when your cable bill is already $50-80+ a month.(HD access is also extra and a $5+ cable box & $3+ remote rental is required.)

Also, now that blu-ray is the format, it's nice to see that the main objective/priority of some people are now making sure that kids are baby sat properly in the minivan or at home in their room. Since they are buying SD DVD for their kids, then they use the excuse to buy all titles in SD DVD & make claims that upconvert is AS GOOD as HD.

HD is now all about convenience, upconverting SD DVD and the kids. Not about getting the best PQ enjoyment possible.

btw:
I was at Frys last night and there was a huge crowd around the blu-ray demo with people gawking at the amazing PQ of blu-ray and Nightmare Before Christmas.
When people see these demos and what SD DVD or HDVOD at home, they can use the blu-ray demo as a reference and without a doubt see the superior PQ difference of blu-ray's PQ.

It won't. People who use VOD as their means of HD don't buy BDs. And once the ISP get away with throttling the amount someone can DL in a month, VOD will go the way of HD DVD....

Just my 2p's worth.

Seggers

Not if the company offering VOD is the cable company who is also providing the internet connection.

I dont see how companies like Apple, Amazon, etc, will be able to compete with cable companies.

Oh please, you have been using this sales pitch for quite some time now and saying the same thing over and over. Try facing reality for once in that people just don't care about these things! As long as you enjoy your BD, then that should be all that matters.

+1

"physiologically"???

on topic... why can't it complement it? there's plenty of blu-rays/hd-dvd that aren't the world's greatest transfers. does that mean you can't enjoy the movie?

sometimes, i think we get so caught up in pq around here that we forget what the point is in the first place...

I was glancing through my Apple TV HD. They just added Maltese Falcon. OK. What I am getting to is, not everyone is enthusiastic about the selection on Blu Ray. I prefer what is available on Apple TV HD by quite a margin and it is both cheaper and more convenient for me. The experience for all practical purposes is the same as watching a Blu Ray.

Video on Demand is clearly the future. Even TVs are being sold with online access built in. For a select few HT conservatives Blu Ray like vinyl records will probably be around for awhile. But I am not the vinyl and SACD type. I simply care for the cheapest and most convenient way to get the HD content I want to watch.

Also, many cable operators are essentially bundling in VoD with their packages. HBO, Showtime and other HD movie channels are crowding out many peoples traditional purchases of DVD. There is just a lot of HD movies that one can watch with their subscription. Same for Netflix. So pay per movie is probably hugely underestimating how many people are watching movies via downloads to Tivos and DVRs.

The advantage here is with the cable and sattelite operators, not Blu Ray and DVD

vudu does 1080p 24fps and movie plays in seconds. Apple TV does 720p 24fps and it starts playing an HD movie in around 20 seconds.

You don't need to download the entire movie to start watching it. I have never seen macroblocking on Apple TV HD. Not once in 20-30 movies that I may have rented since March.

Apple HD, another one trick pony appliance that does no good unless you have a decent broadband connection or don't mind hours of download time.

Have you also not seen how desperate Comcast has been with getting high speed service/cable customers lately?
Free Wii, 6 months free, of course with a 2 year commitment at their overbloated prices.

Also, these "cable packages" that have HD and HDVOD is not cheap.
I was paying $90+ just for expanded digital cable with HD.
This does not include your premium channels, which cost even more.
The HDVOD version of a title also costs $5.99-7.99 here compared to $3.99 for the SDVOD version. And on weekends, it seems the bandwidth is already hitting limits because I get messages that "the movie is not available try again later" but if I'm persistent by selecting the title about 10-20 times, then I get the movie. But the SDVOD version is always readily available.

And don't get me started with their 1000+ of FREE VOD programs that are aweful and most are garbage because included in that 1000+ is self-help, classifieds, music videos, etc.


Not everyone has $150+ a month to dump on high speed broadband, cable with HD service and multiple cables boxes at an additional cost to watch VOD in each room. Then there's the premium price as well for HDVOD.

At least with blu-ray, once I've bought the title, there's no reoccuring monthly fee to watch it again.

btw:
PPV has been around since the late 70's/early 80's. Ever heard of SELECT TV.
Almost 30 years later and PPV/VOD is barely catching on. The DVD/blu-ray sales and rentals are still ahead by a large margin.

but they have $150 a month to drop on half a dozen bd disks?

no one said it was gonna be free...

to your last point... this is PURELY a wag, but i'm gonna bet that the number of HD vod downloads WAY exceed the number of BD disks sold (no fair throwing sddvd rentals in there, it's not germane)... like i said, it's a wag, based on the fact that there's a heckuva lot more hardware in the wild that can do HD vod than can play bd disks...

I just have minimal cable to serve my internet needs. Not even connected to the TV. Apple TV has no monthly fee and HD movies are $5 new or $4 catalog.

The problem is you're basing the quality on really awful encodes. Xbox live is also full of them. This is what is possible for a 4.5gb 720p encode, it's compared to the blu-ray source resized to 720p. If some on demand services could encode like that, then there's a big future.

Even if ISP's all implement hard caps, downloading 2 4.5-6gb files won't be that hard of a hit.

The scene has higher standards than what commericial services offer so don't get your hopes up.

HD VOD or/and HD PPV will never replace blu-ray. I think they will work side buy side like MP3 And CD to an extent. the blu ray to VOD ratio will be much higher on the BD side then Mp3 is to CD. but I think this has a lot to do with download speeds and convince as a MP3 is made for handheld players vs VOD which is watch on the TV or PC at the loction of the box.

I think the need for physical discs will always be there. having a collection of movies is good

After I spend $150 on several BDs, I have several BDs to rewatch, lend or sell. After I spend $150 on VOD I have nothing but the memory...therein lies the difference.
If you like giving your cable company $5.99 for a DD 5.1 compressed mess, by all means do it.

Sorry to burst your bubble but Apple TV plays in seconds not hours. The whole movie does need to be downloaded for you to start watching.

If VOD is going to have an impact, it is going to be on disc rental - Netflix and Blockbuster. But those other rental options are already popular, and have haven't stopped consumers from buying DVDs.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but most people do exactly that. I know of only one person who has a BD player and being from MA, most have Comcast cable. Guess how they watch their movies, considering they also all have DVD players? Yep, OnDemand, even my mother and father in law, both in their late 70's use it all the time. This is the real reason why DVD sales and rentals are down and some here are greatly underestimating the affect it is having on the movie viewing public and I believe with the Feb 17 cut off date fast approaching and more people come over to cable, they will be exposed to OnDemand for the first time and the percentage of people who use it will only keep increasing. The sad part is even for those who have HD capabilties, they still choose the SD version when watching so all that talk about how much better BD looks and sounds, ( which it does) means nothing to most of the general public and that will never change. Some here need to get a grip on reality!

You didn't surprise me...granma and granpa can't drive (or shouldn't) have limited disposable income and (possibly) limited interests. Not exactly a target for collectable media.
I suspect the reason sales and rentals are down (if they are) are many...less disposable income, types of movies being released, netflix, etc.
A rental only makes sense when one viewing is all you want of a film.
Is that not reality also?

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but DVD sales have risen. In the first half of the year DVD sales were up 1.1% over last year.

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/new...ticle_id=13425

Those were only two examples, everyone else I'm talking about is younger. Do you want to go through the whole list and give the reasons why each one uses OnDemand? Why is it so hard for some of you to face up to this fact. Not everyone out there are AVSers where PQ/AQ is the top priority and most movie buffs just care if it is a good movie regardless of how it is delivered. You and I are minorities in the world of picture/sound reproduction and that my friend is REALITY whether you want to admit it or not!

So, people are going to go from no monthly cable bill to paying $55.99 month because they may need to purchase a digital converter for $10(After $40 rebate credit card)?
The cable company is pushing the $12-15 limited/basic cable with no box to these people. May be later on they can lurer them to DIGITAL CABLE, which is what's required to get VOD, which is $55+ here. Then add the tax and that $12-15 just became $65+ a month.

You keep saying SD is "good enough" for the general public but they have been exposed to the very noticeable PQ improvement of blu-ray/HD at the CE demos and you still believe that it's a "marginal" PQ improvement.
I'm not sure what titles you've watched on blu-ray but most have a noticeable PQ improvement over their SD counterpart.

It's like you're saying that even if people test drive a Corvette and find it affordable)within their budget) that they will opt to use their Pinto because it does the job of getting them to point A to B.

Most people are will to pay a little extra to get something that gives them enjoyment(improvement PQ/entertainment) instead of settling for "good enough."

btw:
I recently dumped my cable(Digital Cable+HD @ $95 w/tax) and watch OTA digital/HD programs now. Hum, imagine, someone who is an AVS member that dumps cable because the programming & VOD is awful enough that I found it cheaper to rent/buy programs I enjoy. I wonder what those who are not AV enthusiasts will be doing as cable programming is no longer entertaining.... *ding* dump cable and watch Comcast give away FREE Wii and FREE monthly subscriptions to lurer them back.... which it seems isn't working because every few months, they come out with a new luring tactic.

My satellite provider down converts every thing to 720P. And selection is obviously not their strong suite.

Maltese Falcon isn't a particularly good example as a B&W film shot in 4:3 is not going to stress your connection any where near what some thing like Transformers will. (Maltese Falcon is still the better film)

There are definitely people who don't care about PQ and AQ. But pretty well every one I know from that group grabs their stuff from a torrent site not a DL service. People don't care as much when things are free. Once they have to start to pay then they do care.

We are discussing hd vod vs. bd and not sd vod vs. bd...right?. You seem to be trying to convince us that sd vod is good enough but were not talking about sd vod. Please read the original post.

even some of us avs'ers who like good pq/aq would rather watch a good movie with lesser pq than transformers in hd... ideally, we'd like a good movie IN hd, but given the choice, i know what i'm watching...

like i said in another post, sometimes i think we don't see the forest for the trees around here...