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The Descent - 2 different Blu-ray versions CONFIRMED (MPEG-2 vs AVC encoding)

post #1 of 793
Thread Starter 
UPDATE: I'm "a bit" late in bothering to update this OP, but I figured I'd better provide the most important info we gained from the thread right in the first post, for any new readers.

Screenshot comparison #1 - Both USA versions - AVC vs MPEG-2 vs MPEG-2 PiP
Screenshot comparison #2 - Both USA versions - AVC vs MPEG-2 vs MPEG-2 PiP
Screenshot comparison #3 - Both USA versions - AVC vs MPEG-2 vs MPEG-2 PiP vs HD deleted scene


If you want to pick up the seemingly discontinued American AVC version, your best bet is to go to a brick & mortar store and look for the case type - and more importantly - the catalog sticker pictured at left:

AVC case + sticker ......................| MPEG-2 case + sticker


Screenshot comparison #4 - USA version AVC vs Australia release (stylized colors)

The recommended release is the Australian Blu-ray.


Other releases that may or may not be similar and may not be Region ABC:
  • Netherlands: 2009-07-09
  • Germany: 2009-10-09
  • United Kingdom: 2009-11-09

(...Full unaltered OP text below...)


Lionsgate's Blu-ray of The Descent is supposed to have 3 different versions of the movie on the disc:

Unrated - AVC - seamless branching
Rated - AVC - seamless branching
Picture-in-Picture - MPEG-2 - separate encode

BUT there are also discs out there that instead have the Unrated/Rated movie encoded as MPEG-2! The different presentations have caused some confusion with people thinking others were just watching the wrong encode and complaining for no reason.

In March, jorange posted about this in the Blu-ray Players forum and was swiftly ignored. In July, lgans316 noted this in a thread about a separate issue, and has been a bit more vocal about it. In that thread, lescarphe said his PowerDVD codec display showed the same thing, as did saginawjuggalo and FoxyMulder with their PS3s. Shortly afterwards, Coxwell reported the same thing in the PQ Tier thread. Meanwhile other users thought these guys were insane as their own displays showed they were watching AVC encodes.

As I now have lgans316's MPEG-2 disc in my Blu-ray drive I can confirm without a doubt that this disc contains an actual MPEG-2 encode different from the AVC encode on other pressings. As proof, here are the massive specs listings for each version. (note that the audio is actually 6.1 discrete channels, but encoded as 7.1 LPCM)

AVC version (specs courtesy of Phloyd using BDInfo v0.3.1):

Code:
                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
The Descent: Original Unrated Cut (seamless branching)          AVC     1:39:50 23,020,302,336  48,362,529,368  30.74   21.56   LPCM 7.1 6144Kbps (48kHz/16-bit)          DD AC3 5.1-EX 640Kbps

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:           00002.mpls
Size:           23,020,302,336 bytes
Length:         1:39:50 (h:m:s)
Total Bitrate:  30.74 Mbps
Description:    

FILES:

Name            Size            Length          Time In         Time Out        
----            ----            ------          -------         --------        
00002.M2TS      21,667,233,792  1:33:55.254     0:00:00.000     1:33:55.254     
00024.M2TS      1,353,068,544   0:05:55.730     1:33:55.254     1:39:50.984     

VIDEO:

Codec               Bitrate         Description     
-----               -------         -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video    21559 kbps      1080p / 23.976fps

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
LPCM Audio                      English         6144 kbps       7.1 / 48kHz / 16-bit / 6144kbps
Dolby Digital EX Audio          English         640 kbps        5.1-EX / 48kHz / 640kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             English         192 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 192kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             English         192 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 192kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             English         192 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 192kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             English         192 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 192kbps

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         18 kbps                         
Presentation Graphics           Spanish         17 kbps                         

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time            Name                            
------          ----            ----                            
1               0:00:00.000     Chapter 1                       
2               0:08:10.031     Chapter 2                       
3               0:14:22.111     Chapter 3                       
4               0:21:33.625     Chapter 4                       
5               0:28:50.270     Chapter 5                       
6               0:39:38.959     Chapter 6                       
7               0:45:24.012     Chapter 7                       
8               0:54:25.011     Chapter 8                       
9               0:58:23.249     Chapter 9                       
10              1:05:17.330     Chapter 10                      
11              1:10:16.086     Chapter 11                      
12              1:16:57.654     Chapter 12                      
13              1:20:17.979     Chapter 13                      
14              1:25:00.970     Chapter 14                      
15              1:29:05.465     Chapter 15                      
16              1:31:46.459     Chapter 16                      
17              1:39:50.734     Chapter 17
Code:
                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
The Descent: Rated (seamless branching)                         AVC     1:38:35 22,579,138,560  48,362,529,368  30.53   21.36   LPCM 7.1 6144Kbps (48kHz/16-bit)          DD AC3 5.1-EX 640Kbps

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:           00025.mpls
Size:           22,579,138,560 bytes
Length:         1:38:35 (h:m:s)
Total Bitrate:  30.53 Mbps
Description:    

FILES:

Name            Size            Length          Time In         Time Out        
----            ----            ------          -------         --------        
00002.M2TS      21,667,233,792  1:33:55.254     0:00:00.000     1:33:55.254     
00025.M2TS      911,904,768     0:04:40.655     1:33:55.254     1:38:35.909     

VIDEO:

Codec               Bitrate         Description     
-----               -------         -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video    21360 kbps      1080p / 23.976fps

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
LPCM Audio                      English         6144 kbps       7.1 / 48kHz / 16-bit / 6144kbps
Dolby Digital EX Audio          English         640 kbps        5.1-EX / 48kHz / 640kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             English         192 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 192kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             English         192 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 192kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             English         192 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 192kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             English         192 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 192kbps

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         18 kbps                         
Presentation Graphics           Spanish         18 kbps                         

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time            Name                            
------          ----            ----                            
1               0:00:00.000     Chapter 1                       
2               0:08:10.031     Chapter 2                       
3               0:14:22.111     Chapter 3                       
4               0:21:33.625     Chapter 4                       
5               0:28:50.270     Chapter 5                       
6               0:39:38.959     Chapter 6                       
7               0:45:24.012     Chapter 7                       
8               0:54:25.011     Chapter 8                       
9               0:58:23.249     Chapter 9                       
10              1:05:17.330     Chapter 10                      
11              1:10:16.086     Chapter 11                      
12              1:16:57.654     Chapter 12                      
13              1:20:17.979     Chapter 13                      
14              1:25:00.970     Chapter 14                      
15              1:29:05.465     Chapter 15                      
16              1:31:46.459     Chapter 16                      
17              1:38:35.659     Chapter 17
Code:
                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
The Descent PiP Secondary Encode                                MPEG-2  1:39:50 12,668,018,688  48,362,529,368  16.92   15.91   DD AC3 2.0 224Kbps                        

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:           00021.mpls
Size:           12,668,018,688 bytes
Length:         1:39:50 (h:m:s)
Total Bitrate:  16.92 Mbps
Description:    

FILES:

Name            Size            Length          Time In         Time Out        
----            ----            ------          -------         --------        
00020.M2TS      12,668,018,688  1:39:50.985     0:00:00.000     1:39:50.985     

VIDEO:

Codec               Bitrate         Description     
-----               -------         -----------     
MPEG-2 Video        15911 kbps      1080p / 23.976fps

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Dolby Digital Audio             English         224 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 224kbps

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time            Name                            
------          ----            ----                            
1               0:00:00.000     Chapter 1                       
2               0:08:10.031     Chapter 2                       
3               0:14:22.111     Chapter 3                       
4               0:21:33.625     Chapter 4                       
5               0:28:50.270     Chapter 5                       
6               0:39:38.959     Chapter 6                       
7               0:45:24.012     Chapter 7                       
8               0:54:25.011     Chapter 8                       
9               0:58:23.249     Chapter 9                       
10              1:05:17.330     Chapter 10                      
11              1:10:16.086     Chapter 11                      
12              1:16:57.654     Chapter 12                      
13              1:20:17.979     Chapter 13                      
14              1:25:00.970     Chapter 14                      
15              1:29:05.465     Chapter 15                      
16              1:31:46.459     Chapter 16                      
17              1:39:50.734     Chapter 17
MPEG-2 version (specs using BDInfo v0.4.1):

Code:
                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
The Descent: Original Unrated Cut (seamless branching)          MPEG-2  1:39:50 22,999,492,608  48,424,650,234  30.71   21.53   LPCM 7.1 6144Kbps (48kHz/16-bit)          DD AC3 5.1-EX 640Kbps

DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     LOGICAL_VOLUME_ID
Disc Size:      48,424,650,234 bytes
Protection:     AACS
BD-Java:        Yes

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:           00002.mpls
Size:           22,999,492,608 bytes
Length:         1:39:50 (h:m:s)
Total Bitrate:  30.71 Mbps
Description:    

FILES:

Name            Size            Length          Time In         Time Out        
----            ----            ------          -------         --------        
00002.M2TS      21,593,690,112  1:33:55.254     0:00:00.000     1:33:55.254     
00024.M2TS      1,405,802,496   0:05:55.730     1:33:55.254     1:39:50.984     

VIDEO:

Codec               Bitrate         Description     
-----               -------         -----------     
MPEG-2 Video        21532 kbps      1080p / 23.976fps / 16:9

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
LPCM Audio                      English         6144 kbps       7.1 / 48kHz / 16-bit / 6144kbps
Dolby Digital EX Audio          English         640 kbps        5.1-EX / 48kHz / 640kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             English         192 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 192kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             English         192 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 192kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             English         192 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 192kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             English         192 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 192kbps

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         18.263 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Spanish         17.353 kbps                     

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time            Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          ----            ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     0:08:10.031     23,295 kbps     39,739 kbps     00:02:28.148    35,123 kbps     00:02:24.144    33,799 kbps     00:02:31.443    121,449 bytes   689,370 bytes   00:00:00.584    
2               0:08:10.031     0:06:12.080     21,075 kbps     36,640 kbps     00:08:10.031    33,533 kbps     00:08:10.031    30,516 kbps     00:08:10.031    109,874 bytes   689,371 bytes   00:09:27.650    
3               0:14:22.111     0:07:11.515     23,397 kbps     38,819 kbps     00:15:17.458    29,291 kbps     00:20:30.396    27,909 kbps     00:20:58.299    121,981 bytes   689,370 bytes   00:15:39.522    
4               0:21:33.626     0:07:16.644     20,100 kbps     33,294 kbps     00:21:51.602    27,324 kbps     00:21:47.598    26,268 kbps     00:22:07.368    104,795 bytes   689,369 bytes   00:22:24.426    
5               0:28:50.270     0:10:48.690     20,076 kbps     36,757 kbps     00:31:45.070    28,286 kbps     00:34:53.258    27,061 kbps     00:34:50.880    104,668 bytes   689,371 bytes   00:35:15.196    
6               0:39:38.960     0:05:45.053     19,817 kbps     29,587 kbps     00:41:30.863    24,042 kbps     00:44:36.090    22,797 kbps     00:44:30.960    103,316 bytes   689,369 bytes   00:39:39.002    
7               0:45:24.013     0:09:00.999     21,199 kbps     37,283 kbps     00:48:44.338    27,196 kbps     00:51:43.475    26,097 kbps     00:51:38.470    110,524 bytes   685,169 bytes   00:53:24.660    
8               0:54:25.012     0:03:58.238     23,239 kbps     37,468 kbps     00:57:38.330    31,822 kbps     00:57:34.326    29,463 kbps     00:56:22.796    121,156 bytes   686,832 bytes   00:58:13.824    
9               0:58:23.250     0:06:54.080     21,099 kbps     33,544 kbps     01:04:42.712    28,440 kbps     01:04:59.479    26,444 kbps     01:03:11.913    109,998 bytes   689,369 bytes   01:03:58.168    
10              1:05:17.330     0:04:58.757     20,048 kbps     31,265 kbps     01:07:27.043    24,050 kbps     01:08:01.744    23,293 kbps     01:10:06.077    104,523 bytes   689,373 bytes   01:08:01.786    
11              1:10:16.087     0:06:41.568     21,574 kbps     35,815 kbps     01:11:28.367    29,787 kbps     01:11:26.324    28,683 kbps     01:11:19.275    112,477 bytes   689,369 bytes   01:13:40.875    
12              1:16:57.655     0:03:20.325     22,193 kbps     37,985 kbps     01:17:25.057    30,194 kbps     01:18:59.777    27,856 kbps     01:18:33.375    115,702 bytes   689,376 bytes   01:19:52.997    
13              1:20:17.980     0:04:42.991     20,621 kbps     30,957 kbps     01:24:23.183    24,618 kbps     01:24:20.097    23,909 kbps     01:24:14.841    107,508 bytes   689,369 bytes   01:21:03.442    
14              1:25:00.971     0:04:04.494     23,474 kbps     38,129 kbps     01:28:47.489    30,387 kbps     01:28:25.425    28,457 kbps     01:28:21.087    122,384 bytes   689,370 bytes   01:25:44.097    
15              1:29:05.465     0:02:40.994     21,777 kbps     36,642 kbps     01:29:53.179    29,725 kbps     01:29:49.759    27,185 kbps     01:29:48.883    113,537 bytes   689,369 bytes   01:31:32.320    
16              1:31:46.459     0:08:04.526     22,878 kbps     36,464 kbps     01:31:47.043    29,985 kbps     01:31:50.380    29,209 kbps     01:31:46.584    119,276 bytes   689,374 bytes   01:32:12.110    

STREAM DIAGNOSTICS:

File            PID             Type            Codec           Lang. Code      Lang. Name      Seconds         Bytes           Packets         Bitrate         
----            ---             ----            -----           ----------      ----------      -------         -----           -------         -------         
00002.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0x02            MPEG-2                                          5635.25         15,127,297,739  82,292,300      21,475          
00002.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x81            AC3-EX          eng             English         5635.25         450,821,120     2,641,530       640             
00002.M2TS      4353 (0x1101)   0x80            LPCM            eng             English         5635.25         4,327,875,840   23,668,071      6,144           
00002.M2TS      4354 (0x1102)   0x81            AC3             eng             English         5635.25         135,246,336     880,510         192             
00002.M2TS      4355 (0x1103)   0x81            AC3             eng             English         5635.25         135,246,336     880,510         192             
00002.M2TS      4356 (0x1104)   0x81            AC3             eng             English         5635.25         135,246,336     880,510         192             
00002.M2TS      4357 (0x1105)   0x81            AC3             eng             English         5635.25         135,246,336     880,510         192             
00002.M2TS      4608 (0x1200)   0x90            PGS             eng             English         5635.25         13,669,441      79,055          19              
00002.M2TS      4609 (0x1201)   0x90            PGS             spa             Spanish         5635.25         12,989,975      75,327          18              
00024.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0x02            MPEG-2                                          355.73          997,602,770     5,426,711       22,435          
00024.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x81            AC3-EX          eng             English         355.73          28,459,520      166,755         640             
00024.M2TS      4353 (0x1101)   0x80            LPCM            eng             English         355.73          273,204,480     1,494,087       6,144           
00024.M2TS      4354 (0x1102)   0x81            AC3             eng             English         355.73          8,537,856       55,585          192             
00024.M2TS      4355 (0x1103)   0x81            AC3             eng             English         355.73          8,537,856       55,585          192             
00024.M2TS      4356 (0x1104)   0x81            AC3             eng             English         355.73          8,537,856       55,585          192             
00024.M2TS      4357 (0x1105)   0x81            AC3             eng             English         355.73          8,537,856       55,585          192             
00024.M2TS      4608 (0x1200)   0x90            PGS             eng             English         355.73          6,941           44              0               
00024.M2TS      4609 (0x1201)   0x90            PGS             spa             Spanish         355.73          5,147           34              0
Code:
                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
The Descent: Rated (seamless branching)                         MPEG-2  1:38:35 22,576,723,968  48,424,650,234  30.53   21.36   LPCM 7.1 6144Kbps (48kHz/16-bit)          DD AC3 5.1-EX 640Kbps

DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     LOGICAL_VOLUME_ID
Disc Size:      48,424,650,234 bytes
Protection:     AACS
BD-Java:        Yes

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:           00025.mpls
Size:           22,576,723,968 bytes
Length:         1:38:35 (h:m:s)
Total Bitrate:  30.53 Mbps
Description:    

FILES:

Name            Size            Length          Time In         Time Out        
----            ----            ------          -------         --------        
00002.M2TS      21,593,690,112  1:33:55.254     0:00:00.000     1:33:55.254     
00025.M2TS      983,033,856     0:04:40.655     1:33:55.254     1:38:35.909     

VIDEO:

Codec               Bitrate         Description     
-----               -------         -----------     
MPEG-2 Video        21357 kbps      1080p / 23.976fps / 16:9

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
LPCM Audio                      English         6144 kbps       7.1 / 48kHz / 16-bit / 6144kbps
Dolby Digital EX Audio          English         640 kbps        5.1-EX / 48kHz / 640kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             English         192 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 192kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             English         192 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 192kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             English         192 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 192kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             English         192 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 192kbps

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         18.485 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Spanish         17.566 kbps                     

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time            Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          ----            ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     0:08:10.031     23,295 kbps     39,739 kbps     00:02:28.148    35,123 kbps     00:02:24.144    33,799 kbps     00:02:31.443    121,449 bytes   689,370 bytes   00:00:00.584    
2               0:08:10.031     0:06:12.080     21,075 kbps     36,640 kbps     00:08:10.031    33,533 kbps     00:08:10.031    30,516 kbps     00:08:10.031    109,874 bytes   689,371 bytes   00:09:27.650    
3               0:14:22.111     0:07:11.515     23,397 kbps     38,819 kbps     00:15:17.458    29,291 kbps     00:20:30.396    27,909 kbps     00:20:58.299    121,981 bytes   689,370 bytes   00:15:39.522    
4               0:21:33.626     0:07:16.644     20,100 kbps     33,294 kbps     00:21:51.602    27,324 kbps     00:21:47.598    26,268 kbps     00:22:07.368    104,795 bytes   689,369 bytes   00:22:24.426    
5               0:28:50.270     0:10:48.690     20,076 kbps     36,757 kbps     00:31:45.070    28,286 kbps     00:34:53.258    27,061 kbps     00:34:50.880    104,668 bytes   689,371 bytes   00:35:15.196    
6               0:39:38.960     0:05:45.053     19,817 kbps     29,587 kbps     00:41:30.863    24,042 kbps     00:44:36.090    22,797 kbps     00:44:30.960    103,316 bytes   689,369 bytes   00:39:39.002    
7               0:45:24.013     0:09:00.999     21,199 kbps     37,283 kbps     00:48:44.338    27,196 kbps     00:51:43.475    26,097 kbps     00:51:38.470    110,524 bytes   685,169 bytes   00:53:24.660    
8               0:54:25.012     0:03:58.238     23,239 kbps     37,468 kbps     00:57:38.330    31,822 kbps     00:57:34.326    29,463 kbps     00:56:22.796    121,156 bytes   686,832 bytes   00:58:13.824    
9               0:58:23.250     0:06:54.080     21,099 kbps     33,544 kbps     01:04:42.712    28,440 kbps     01:04:59.479    26,444 kbps     01:03:11.913    109,998 bytes   689,369 bytes   01:03:58.168    
10              1:05:17.330     0:04:58.757     20,048 kbps     31,265 kbps     01:07:27.043    24,050 kbps     01:08:01.744    23,293 kbps     01:10:06.077    104,523 bytes   689,373 bytes   01:08:01.786    
11              1:10:16.087     0:06:41.568     21,574 kbps     35,815 kbps     01:11:28.367    29,787 kbps     01:11:26.324    28,683 kbps     01:11:19.275    112,477 bytes   689,369 bytes   01:13:40.875    
12              1:16:57.655     0:03:20.325     22,193 kbps     37,985 kbps     01:17:25.057    30,194 kbps     01:18:59.777    27,856 kbps     01:18:33.375    115,702 bytes   689,376 bytes   01:19:52.997    
13              1:20:17.980     0:04:42.991     20,621 kbps     30,957 kbps     01:24:23.183    24,618 kbps     01:24:20.097    23,909 kbps     01:24:14.841    107,508 bytes   689,369 bytes   01:21:03.442    
14              1:25:00.971     0:04:04.494     23,474 kbps     38,129 kbps     01:28:47.489    30,387 kbps     01:28:25.425    28,457 kbps     01:28:21.087    122,384 bytes   689,370 bytes   01:25:44.097    
15              1:29:05.465     0:02:40.994     21,777 kbps     36,642 kbps     01:29:53.179    29,725 kbps     01:29:49.759    27,185 kbps     01:29:48.883    113,537 bytes   689,369 bytes   01:31:32.320    
16              1:31:46.459     0:06:49.451     20,607 kbps     36,464 kbps     01:31:47.043    29,985 kbps     01:31:50.380    29,209 kbps     01:31:46.584    107,434 bytes   689,374 bytes   01:32:12.110    

STREAM DIAGNOSTICS:

File            PID             Type            Codec           Lang. Code      Lang. Name      Seconds         Bytes           Packets         Bitrate         
----            ---             ----            -----           ----------      ----------      -------         -----           -------         -------         
00002.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0x02            MPEG-2                                          5635.25         15,127,297,739  82,292,300      21,475          
00002.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x81            AC3-EX          eng             English         5635.25         450,821,120     2,641,530       640             
00002.M2TS      4353 (0x1101)   0x80            LPCM            eng             English         5635.25         4,327,875,840   23,668,071      6,144           
00002.M2TS      4354 (0x1102)   0x81            AC3             eng             English         5635.25         135,246,336     880,510         192             
00002.M2TS      4355 (0x1103)   0x81            AC3             eng             English         5635.25         135,246,336     880,510         192             
00002.M2TS      4356 (0x1104)   0x81            AC3             eng             English         5635.25         135,246,336     880,510         192             
00002.M2TS      4357 (0x1105)   0x81            AC3             eng             English         5635.25         135,246,336     880,510         192             
00002.M2TS      4608 (0x1200)   0x90            PGS             eng             English         5635.25         13,669,441      79,055          19              
00002.M2TS      4609 (0x1201)   0x90            PGS             spa             Spanish         5635.25         12,989,975      75,327          18              
00025.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0x02            MPEG-2                                          280.66          666,246,684     3,624,797       18,991          
00025.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x81            AC3-EX          eng             English         280.66          22,453,760      131,565         640             
00025.M2TS      4353 (0x1101)   0x80            LPCM            eng             English         280.66          215,546,880     1,178,772       6,144           
00025.M2TS      4354 (0x1102)   0x81            AC3             eng             English         280.66          6,736,128       43,855          192             
00025.M2TS      4355 (0x1103)   0x81            AC3             eng             English         280.66          6,736,128       43,855          192             
00025.M2TS      4356 (0x1104)   0x81            AC3             eng             English         280.66          6,736,128       43,855          192             
00025.M2TS      4357 (0x1105)   0x81            AC3             eng             English         280.66          6,736,128       43,855          192             
00025.M2TS      4608 (0x1200)   0x90            PGS             eng             English         280.66          0               0               0               
00025.M2TS      4609 (0x1201)   0x90            PGS             spa             Spanish         280.66          0               0               0
Code:
                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
The Descent PiP Secondary Encode                                MPEG-2  1:39:50 12,668,018,688  48,424,650,234  16.92   15.91   DD AC3 2.0 224Kbps                        

DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     LOGICAL_VOLUME_ID
Disc Size:      48,424,650,234 bytes
Protection:     AACS
BD-Java:        Yes

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:           00021.mpls
Size:           12,668,018,688 bytes
Length:         1:39:50 (h:m:s)
Total Bitrate:  16.92 Mbps
Description:    

FILES:

Name            Size            Length          Time In         Time Out        
----            ----            ------          -------         --------        
00020.M2TS      12,668,018,688  1:39:50.985     0:00:00.000     1:39:50.985     

VIDEO:

Codec               Bitrate         Description     
-----               -------         -----------     
MPEG-2 Video        15911 kbps      1080p / 23.976fps / 16:9

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Dolby Digital Audio             English         224 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 224kbps

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time            Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          ----            ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     0:08:10.031     17,247 kbps     35,172 kbps     00:01:43.520    28,529 kbps     00:01:47.774    27,917 kbps     00:01:42.561    89,917 bytes    528,319 bytes   00:07:03.506    
2               0:08:10.031     0:06:12.080     15,525 kbps     30,066 kbps     00:08:10.031    25,726 kbps     00:08:10.031    22,859 kbps     00:08:10.031    80,943 bytes    562,482 bytes   00:08:37.100    
3               0:14:22.111     0:07:11.515     17,133 kbps     27,212 kbps     00:15:17.458    21,975 kbps     00:20:30.396    21,027 kbps     00:20:58.174    89,322 bytes    563,850 bytes   00:16:22.064    
4               0:21:33.626     0:07:16.644     15,123 kbps     27,276 kbps     00:21:51.602    21,670 kbps     00:21:47.681    20,190 kbps     00:22:07.117    78,843 bytes    555,952 bytes   00:23:42.630    
5               0:28:50.270     0:10:48.690     15,295 kbps     34,388 kbps     00:38:30.308    23,660 kbps     00:34:55.885    21,745 kbps     00:34:50.880    79,742 bytes    514,214 bytes   00:37:20.947    
6               0:39:38.960     0:05:45.053     15,068 kbps     22,730 kbps     00:44:38.718    18,531 kbps     00:42:06.566    17,264 kbps     00:42:06.065    78,559 bytes    559,350 bytes   00:44:28.374    
7               0:45:24.013     0:09:00.999     15,744 kbps     26,741 kbps     00:50:50.589    19,416 kbps     00:50:50.506    18,646 kbps     00:49:37.850    82,082 bytes    551,495 bytes   00:50:50.631    
8               0:54:25.012     0:03:58.238     17,091 kbps     31,379 kbps     00:56:23.005    23,532 kbps     00:56:20.794    20,782 kbps     00:56:36.184    89,105 bytes    544,113 bytes   00:56:20.836    
9               0:58:23.250     0:06:54.080     15,463 kbps     25,334 kbps     00:59:27.731    20,363 kbps     00:59:19.723    19,917 kbps     00:59:15.093    80,619 bytes    549,934 bytes   01:00:33.588    
10              1:05:17.330     0:04:58.757     14,680 kbps     21,254 kbps     01:10:15.086    17,620 kbps     01:10:10.998    17,384 kbps     01:10:05.993    76,536 bytes    380,200 bytes   01:10:15.920    
11              1:10:16.087     0:06:41.568     16,141 kbps     30,454 kbps     01:11:25.948    23,117 kbps     01:11:25.990    22,117 kbps     01:11:19.442    84,149 bytes    499,206 bytes   01:13:38.247    
12              1:16:57.655     0:03:20.325     17,012 kbps     28,456 kbps     01:17:25.057    23,153 kbps     01:18:36.503    21,752 kbps     01:18:33.375    88,693 bytes    434,039 bytes   01:17:25.850    
13              1:20:17.980     0:04:42.991     14,967 kbps     22,240 kbps     01:24:00.827    18,332 kbps     01:23:19.453    18,123 kbps     01:23:20.495    78,032 bytes    499,809 bytes   01:20:18.022    
14              1:25:00.971     0:04:04.494     17,725 kbps     32,717 kbps     01:28:45.987    23,979 kbps     01:28:25.425    22,402 kbps     01:28:39.064    92,409 bytes    529,968 bytes   01:27:55.729    
15              1:29:05.465     0:02:40.994     15,656 kbps     25,326 kbps     01:29:49.801    19,968 kbps     01:29:49.801    18,356 kbps     01:29:48.925    81,623 bytes    566,960 bytes   01:31:46.501    
16              1:31:46.459     0:08:04.526     15,732 kbps     31,909 kbps     01:31:46.793    24,085 kbps     01:31:46.501    22,516 kbps     01:31:46.501    82,022 bytes    574,028 bytes   01:33:33.942    

STREAM DIAGNOSTICS:

File            PID             Type            Codec           Lang. Code      Lang. Name      Seconds         Bytes           Packets         Bitrate         
----            ---             ----            -----           ----------      ----------      -------         -----           -------         -------         
00020.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0x02            MPEG-2                                          5990.99         11,915,640,981  64,842,463      15,911          
00020.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x81            AC3             eng             English         5990.99         167,748,224     936,095         224
Differences:
Disc size: AVC: 48,362,529,368 bytes | MPEG-2: 48,424,650,234 bytes
Unrated movie size: AVC: 23,020,302,336 bytes | MPEG-2: 22,999,492,608 bytes
Unrated total/video bitrates: AVC: 30.74/21.56 Mbps | MPEG-2: 30.71/21.53 Mbps
Rated movie size: AVC: 22,579,138,560 bytes | MPEG-2: 22,576,723,968 bytes

The Rated versions' bitrates happen to be practically identical, but are actually different at kbps precision. And of course, the PiP encode stats are identical on both versions (which proves they are being measured the same way).

In case anyone's still thinking this is a "flagging" issue on the MPEG-2 disc regardless of the number differences, the video is definitely decoded by MPEG-2 filters on a PC. AVC filters refuse to accept the output of Haali's video splitter for these files.

For the MPEG-2 version, "modified" dates range from 11/18/2006 to 01/08/2007, with some dates in between. The PiP was modified 11/18/2006. The 3 seamlessly branched files were modified 01/08/2007.

MPEG-2/Unrated graphs (Rated version is basically the same):



MPEG-2/PiP graphs:



Can anyone with the AVC version and a BD drive please post the "modified" dates/graphs? How about a PIX comparison? MPEG-2 vs AVC: same studio, same master, same bitrate. Could be interesting. I noticed some pulsating in static shots on the MPEG-2, possibly blocking elsewhere. I wonder if this is alleviated in the AVC.

Conclusions:
- PS3 and PowerDVD always display the codecs correctly, regardless of firmware
- Lionsgate encoded, authored, and pressed one version of this disc (probably MPEG-2) and then for some reason decided to re-encode and replace just the main movie, re-authoring and re-pressing with the rest of the disc structure kept seemingly identical
- The unannounced MPEG-2 version somehow made its way into retailers' stock, including Amazon and Movietyme

There is also a July 2007 High Def Digest forum post claiming the same thing of Lionsgate's Young Guns release.

Is it possible to tell which version you have from the disc or package markings? I don't think the other thread quite nailed that down.
post #2 of 793
Thanks msgohan for creating such a detailed post. I hope members with BD Drive would be able to check and confirm the codec and post comparison screenshots.
post #3 of 793
The blu-ray version of Descent I got months ago sucked as far as pq,loved the movie hated the pq!!!
post #4 of 793
I checked this disc on my PS3 a couple months ago and it confirmed that it's encoded in MPEG-2. The picture quality is fantastic and true to the source material as far as I'm concerned so I never gave it another thought.
post #5 of 793
So does this change the actual quality of the transfer from codec to codec?

As I watched the Unrated version and the image was perfection, absolutley staggering quality.
post #6 of 793
Do the two versions have different UPC codes?
post #7 of 793
Is this what you're referring to, or is it the old version?

http://www.amazon.com/Descent-Origin...0719621&sr=1-2
post #8 of 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by dholmes54 View Post

The blu-ray version of Descent I got months ago sucked as far as pq,loved the movie hated the pq!!!

The one i have is MPEG 2 bought from Movietyme and far from sucking it looks excellent....Perhaps you dislike grain.

I will be interested to know though if AVC makes a difference to the image quality so i am looking forward to a comparison screenshot war between the versions.

There is absolutely nothing on the box packaging to suggest the codec used but the packaging does say 6.1 pcm uncompressed audio although the Playstation reads it as 7.1 although i don't have a receiver capable of uncompressed yet so can't say how it plays.

Catalog number on the disc says 20593 if that helps anyone.
post #9 of 793
Your acting as if Video Codec determines quality.
post #10 of 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

Your acting as if Video Codec determines quality.

The compressionists who worked on both versions might have done a better job with one of them....Either the MPEG 2 edition or the AVC edition....The only way to tell is to get some screenshots and let us see.

So it's not a question of the codec used it's how the compressionist did their job....I know the MPEG 2 edition i own looks excellent but i would love to know how the AVC edition turned out regarding keeping the grain structure intact and the sharpness of certain scenes and whether some scenes look better with one edition over the other.... For that we need screenshots and good eyes.
post #11 of 793
Thank you very much House, an excellent and very informative post.

Now I'll join the groups that would really like to see some screencaps comparisons. BTW, my version is AVC encoded, fantastic movie!
post #12 of 793
Is this why there were reports of it being region locked then not ?
post #13 of 793
Mine is MPEG2 and it looks great. As long as both versions look the same I'm not sure what the difference is?
post #14 of 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

Your acting as if Video Codec determines quality.

MPEG-4 (AVC) is more efficient than MPEG-2. The encodes are the same size and average bitrate. Thus, there is a very real possibility that the version with the AVC encode looks better than the MPEG-2 encode.
post #15 of 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deviation View Post

MPEG-4 (AVC) is more efficient than MPEG-2. The encodes are the same size and average bitrate. Thus, there is a very real possibility that the version with the AVC encode looks better than the MPEG-2 encode.

In which case it must look amazing as the MPEG 2 edition looks excellent. It'll be interesting to see any test results this week.
post #16 of 793
Quote:


The only way to tell is to get some screenshots and let us see.

This thread is useless without pics.
post #17 of 793
Very strange indeed. Dare I say it...a phantom encode? I really thought lgans316's copy had a flagging error and not a completely different video encode. I wonder what motivated Lionsgate to do this change. Was it a test encode that somehow got used when the disc was repressed? We can't even get Warner to re-encode giant sellers like Batman Begins and Lionsgate does this on a minor horror BD.

Without comparing them directly, I would guess the AVC encoding looks a little better. At the same bitrates AVC is going to be more efficient than MPEG2 and one would expect the AVC encode to have a slight edge on transparency to the master.
post #18 of 793
Though my copy of The Descent was MPEG-2 encoded the PQ was quite awesome.
post #19 of 793
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

Is this why there were reports of it being region locked then not ?

Looking through the region thread it appears that the issue was with older firmwares not being able to play the disc at all as opposed to region locking. I can say that the MPEG-2 version is Region Free at least.

I just noticed that Amazon lists the release date as 12/26/2006. Considering the MPEG-2 version has file modified dates of 01/08/2007, I guess that means it's actually the second version created...

Here are some shots from the MPEG-2 if anyone can match them. Does the AVC also have the aliasing on text?

[EDIT: Images removed - see post #58 on page 2 for comparison with AVC encode ]
post #20 of 793
Told ya the PS3 never lies.
Quote:


Disc size: AVC: 48,362,529,368 bytes | MPEG-2: 48,424,650,234 bytes
Unrated movie size: AVC: 23,020,302,336 bytes | MPEG-2: 22,999,492,608 bytes
Unrated total/video bitrates: AVC: 30.74/21.56 Mbps | MPEG-2: 30.71/21.53 Mbps
Rated movie size: AVC: 22,579,138,560 bytes | MPEG-2: 22,576,723,968 bytes

The Rated versions' bitrates happen to be practically identical, but are actually different at kbps precision. And of course, the PiP encode stats are identical on both versions (which proves they are being measured the same way).

In case anyone's still thinking this is a "flagging" issue on the MPEG-2 disc regardless of the number differences, the video is definitely decoded by MPEG-2 filters on a PC. AVC filters refuse to accept the output of Haali's video splitter for these files.

So...Lionsgate went back and did a second version with an older codec? I just got a new copy from Amazon last month and it was MPEG2.

Those stats seem way too similar for different codecs, even though they are both of the MPEG family. Is it possible that the original versions are MPEG2 and those are incorrectly flagged as AVC?
post #21 of 793
Amazon refunded me twice due to this issue despite requesting them NOT to offer any refunds. When I contacted Lionsgate they asked me to take the issue with the merchant. I have ordered another copy from amazon.com for cheap but this time I will be contacting Lionsgate mentioning the difference in specs including the screenshots posted by msgohan.

Quote:


Those stats seem way too similar for different codecs, even though they are both of the MPEG family. Is it possible that the original versions are MPEG2 and those are incorrectly flagged as AVC?

Same question here.

Quote:


Does the AVC also have the aliasing on text?

Aliasing is noticeable on the text but the major issue is color fringing as reported in the EE/DNR thread.
post #22 of 793
Glad to see that I am not crazy.
I haven't my copy next to me, but I could add later the different serial numbers so as to compare with the avc edition ?
post #23 of 793
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowrage View Post

Those stats seem way too similar for different codecs, even though they are both of the MPEG family. Is it possible that the original versions are MPEG2 and those are incorrectly flagged as AVC?

There shouldn't be any reason you can't get similar sizes and bitrates using any codec, you just have to set up the encoder to give you the same rates.

Since the video bitrates are actually different I don't think it's possible that it's a flagging issue, if a flagging issue is even possible to begin with. I would think labelling MPEG-2 as AVC would cause an AVC decoder to be used which would give you junk output, at least on PC playback.

Suddenly it's mostly people who have the MPEG-2 disc in this thread whereas it seemed the AVC was more common before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

Aliasing is noticeable on the text but the major issue is color fringing as reported in the EE/DNR thread.

Where was that? I don't see it listed in the OP.
post #24 of 793
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=335

Same as 3:10 to Yuma.

Problem: Y and UV out of sync. Color fringing and aliasing at edges
Comments: Probably an incorrect filtering job from the DI. The 4:2:0 format is screwed up.
post #25 of 793
Thread Starter 
Benes has the AVC version, so we have the beginnings of a screencap comparison.





Obviously the re-encode wasn't to fix this issue... Instead the most obvious difference is that the greyscale of the photograph is crushed slightly on the MPEG-2. And surprisingly it is actually blocking a bit and smoothing out very fine details, even here! In non-moving parts of the screen, on a still photo, with only still credits scrolling past... That's quite sad, assuming the bitrates are similar around this frame too.

But that's the Unrated branch file. Check out the Rated branch:




Hmm! No chroma problem, but the contrast has been pushed even more, in both directions. And the aliasing is still there.

Oddly, the stray colors are much more noticeable on my CRT monitor than my LCD TV. I didn't see the issue at all on the TV while watching the credits play from a very close distance.

Side note: is the Unrated/Rated distinction just a crock? The only branch point is the end, and I don't see anything in the ending that's worse than what's in the movie itself. Besides that, the "Rated" ending doesn't even make sense to me...
post #26 of 793
I could be wrong but isn't rated just theatrical? I have MPEG2 (thought it looked great by the way) and 7.1 PCM is eported by my receiver. I'll have my buddy bring his copy over today, he's had his a lot longer. I don't have a Blu drive on my PC, but my Pioneer player can report encodes too.
post #27 of 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

Benes has the AVC version, so we have the beginnings of a screencap comparison.





Obviously the re-encode wasn't to fix this issue... Instead the most obvious difference is that the greyscale of the photograph is crushed slightly on the MPEG-2. And surprisingly it is actually blocking a bit and smoothing out very fine details, even here! In non-moving parts of the screen, on a still photo, with only still credits scrolling past... That's quite sad, assuming the bitrates are similar around this frame too.

But that's the Unrated branch file. Check out the Rated branch:




Hmm! No chroma problem, but the contrast has been pushed even more, in both directions. And the aliasing is still there.

Oddly, the stray colors are much more noticeable on my CRT monitor than my LCD TV. I didn't see the issue at all on the TV while watching the credits play from a very close distance.

Side note: is the Unrated/Rated distinction just a crock? The only branch point is the end, and I don't see anything in the ending that's worse than what's in the movie itself. Besides that, the "Rated" ending doesn't even make sense to me...

I didn't see any issues on my Panasonic LCD projector either so maybe LCD doesn't show up such issues.....I still say the MPEG 2 edition looks fabulous although i agree if there is an AVC edition at exactly the same file size then it's likely to have some improvements and look stunning despite the aliasing issue which i find is a minor problem compared to issues like EE/DNR..... I have 3:10 to Yuma and that looks great too.
post #28 of 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by dholmes54 View Post

The blu-ray version of Descent I got months ago sucked as far as pq,loved the movie hated the pq!!!

+1

I bought my copy from Amazon over a year ago, and was hugely disappointed with the PQ at the time.

Mine is also MPEG-2, but there is a lot more wrong than color fringing. A lot of detail is missing, even in outdoor shots. The colors are also way off the scale, but that could be my JVC HD1.
post #29 of 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

+1

I bought my copy from Amazon over a year ago, and was hugely disappointed with the PQ at the time.

Mine is also MPEG-2, but there is a lot more wrong than color fringing. A lot of detail is missing, even in outdoor shots. The colors are also way off the scale, but that could be my JVC HD1.

How do you know detail is missing ?
post #30 of 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyMulder View Post

How do you know detail is missing ?

When I prefer the PQ of Pan's Labyrinth (US) it might give you a pretty good idea...

I doubt if the master was that bad, to stay in your line of thinking.
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