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The Descent - 2 different Blu-ray versions CONFIRMED (MPEG-2 vs AVC encoding) - Page 5

post #121 of 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

Another difference I didn't notice initially, the silk screen art on the AVC disc is much darker than on the MPEG-2 disc. Again probably nothing to do with the disc version as FoxyMulder's MPEG-2 disc pic looks more like my AVC disc than my MPEG-2.



And on the data side, the AVC disc has an added silver ring covering up most of the white backing. This isn't a BV vs EM difference as most of my Lionsgate EMs have it as well. Maybe it's totally random. FoxyMulder, your input is required!



The inserts are different between the BV and EM.
My AVC BV: 9855VQBLURAY3 and 9855VQBLURAY2
FoxyMulder's MPEG-2 BV: 9855VQBLURAY3 (and 9855VQBLURAY2?)
My MPEG-2 EM: 3000006864

Still have to compare CRCs of files and check out the JAR structure. Google told me you can extract it using WinRAR to see the directories inside. Also need to make sure both discs are Region Free.

First off, thank you for all your hard work on this.

My AVC disc goes like this. On the flip side of the disc it has silver all the way to the center like the first disc pictured.

On my two inserts there are these catalog IDs: 9855VQBLURAY2 & 9855VQBLURAY3
post #122 of 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

The New PQ Tier Thread lists it as MPEG-2, but it also lists "Basic Instinct" directly beneath as MPEG-2 which no one has ever claimed as far as I know... Where does this info in the thread come from and who compiles it?

I believe the default technical specs for most of the titles in the Tier thread are ripped straight from the High Def Digest's listings. I've corrected a few of them but there are definite errors in the Tier thread technical specifications. It's why I personally verify and try to correct any info for BDs I recommend in that thread.

If Lionsgate has done this once it wouldn't surprise me if they've done it for other titles. Anyone wanting an AVC copy of The Descent can have my copy for...one million dollars.
post #123 of 793
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyV View Post

On my two inserts there are these catalog IDs: 9855VQBLURAY2 & 9855VQBLURAY3

Thanks TommyV. I take it yours is in a BVHE-style case (badge Blu-ray logo)?

Now we know at least two AVC copies have these inserts and don't know of any without both. FoxyMulder's MPEG-2 copy that otherwise mirrors my AVC (except for final ring numbers and possibly the catalog sticker) only has the one ending in "3".

Of course even if we find that the inserts do always correlate with the disc version, that only helps once you open the darn thing. Likewise for ring numbers. If every AVC version has the number on the top sticker and no MPEG-2 version does (and vice versa...), that would be the best way to identify which you'll get in a B&M store.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

I believe the default technical specs for most of the titles in the Tier thread are ripped straight from the High Def Digest's listings.

But HDD lists "Basic Instinct" as AVC. Hmm... I can't find any reviews stating MPEG-2 with Google, but it's complicated by the fact that the "Basic Instinct 2" is MPEG-2. So there are a bunch of those results of course.

Quote:


If Lionsgate has done this once it wouldn't surprise me if they've done it for other titles.

The Crank difference is unbelievable, but it exists... So they definitely have done recodes for other discs. Even more inexplicably on that one.

Then there are the different pressings that seemingly have the same encodes with different AACS. The only non-Lionsgate titles I have from 2006 are "The Terminator" and "Memento" (both Sony), purchased new from online stores the other month. They were authored before their original release dates unlike all these Lionsgate variations...
post #124 of 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

AVC vs MPEG-2 vs MPEG-2 PiP

msgohan

thank you for a once again outstanding screencap comparison, alongside a very informative and elaborate post.
post #125 of 793
That final comp shot between the AVC and MPEG-2 transfers perfectly shows the "clumping" of grain that happens when DNR is used. It's actually more distracting than a fine veil of grain could ever be, IMO.
post #126 of 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

The Crank difference is unbelievable, but it exists... So they definitely have done recodes for other discs. Even more inexplicably on that one.

Gah, they did this to Crank as well? How do I tell which version I have? Are the differences cataloged anywhere?
post #127 of 793
Received MPEG-2 version of The Descent for the 3rd time from amazon. If memory serves me right this version looks a tad grainier than the previous ones but I am still not satisfied on not getting the superior AVC version. Will contact Lionsgate and try my best to get a replacement copy.
post #128 of 793
would love to hear the official explanation....
post #129 of 793
Great work/thread. Based on the info here (especially the above pics), I'm confident I was fortunate enuff to end up with the AVC disc now. This movie is incred btw.
post #130 of 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

Thanks TommyV. I take it yours is in a BVHE-style case (badge Blu-ray logo)?

Now we know at least two AVC copies have these inserts and don't know of any without both. FoxyMulder's MPEG-2 copy that otherwise mirrors my AVC (except for final ring numbers and possibly the catalog sticker) only has the one ending in "3".

Of course even if we find that the inserts do always correlate with the disc version, that only helps once you open the darn thing. Likewise for ring numbers. If every AVC version has the number on the top sticker and no MPEG-2 version does (and vice versa...), that would be the best way to identify which you'll get in a B&M store.

I am still a little unclear on which case is which. Mine does have the ellipse around the Blu-ray logo and the spine is a more perpendicular flat surface. I guess that is BVHE?
post #131 of 793
Good luck with Lionsgate - they wouldn't even acknowledge when they put out the Lord Of War DVD in the incorrect aspect ratio - they just silently replaced it.

I was frankly shocked they even solicited returns for the Stargate BD subtitle issue.
post #132 of 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyV View Post

I am still a little unclear on which case is which. Mine does have the ellipse around the Blu-ray logo and the spine is a more perpendicular flat surface. I guess that is BVHE?

The thinner, flatter cases with the embossed Blu-ray logo on the front are BV cases and the rounder, fatter cases with an even surface for the Blu-ray logo are EM cases and they'll often be labeled "Elite" somewhere on the inside.
post #133 of 793
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deviation View Post

Gah, they did this to Crank as well? How do I tell which version I have? Are the differences cataloged anywhere?

Sorry for the confusion. Somewhere in this thread is my post about Crank, check that for details, but all I can say so far is that there ARE two versions of Crank, not that they screwed with either version. There's only a tiny tiny filesize difference on the actual main movie encode. It's possible that it's a re-encode but also possible that it's just the same file remuxed/re-encrypted/etc. If benes or someone posted full specs we should be able to see which is the case by the individual Chapter min/max/ave bitrates @ kbps precision.

The PiP encode on the disc is a definite re-encode either way - obvious from the current specs without higher precision required. And of course, no one actually cares if only the PiP encode was filtered or something since it's just an extra. It'd merely be a curiosity, begging the question: why spend time and money to re-encode, re-author and re-press the disc?? Did the original disc image file get lost?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bunkaroo View Post

I was frankly shocked they even solicited returns for the Stargate BD subtitle issue.

D'oh! That accounts for the difference in specs on my "Stargate" BD. Thanks for the reminder of that issue. I wonder if they silently re-encoded the video while they were at it.

So, confirmed different discs:

- Stargate - fix subtitles; other differences?
- The Descent - replace AVC movie encode with filtered MPEG-2; replace menu video; replace blank M2TS; replace BD-Java file; replace BDJO file
- Crank - replace PiP encode; other differences?
- Some more Lionsgate titles - AACS encryption the only apparent difference so far

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deviation View Post

The thinner, flatter cases with the embossed Blu-ray logo on the front are BV cases and the rounder, fatter cases with an even surface for the Blu-ray logo are EM cases and they'll often be labeled "Elite" somewhere on the inside.

Not to be confused with the Elites I'll call ES cases with shiny etched logos instead of the matte printing. I think this type is my preference but they seem to be much rarer than the other two. lgans316's first copy of "The Descent" and the recent Alliance Canadian releases do use them.
post #134 of 793
I prefer the BV cases by far. They're thinner so you can fit more on the shelf while at the same time they have more real estate on the cover for the art. Not to mention that the inserts fit a lot better and you don't have to fiddle with them to get the spines to line up.

Oh, and the BV cases for multi-disc releases completely and absolutely destroy the EM/ES cases for multi-disc releases. I will brook no argument here as the disc holders for the pages in those EM/ES cases are effing awful (Blade Runner, Planet Earth, Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles) - over half of the ones I own have at least one disc that falls out and rattles around the case at the slightest disturbance. The BV multi-disc cases (Lost, Damages, etc), on the other hand, hold the discs very snugly.
post #135 of 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deviation View Post

I prefer the BV cases by far. They're thinner so you can fit more on the shelf while at the same time they have more real estate on the cover for the art. Not to mention that the inserts fit a lot better and you don't have to fiddle with them to get the spines to line up.

LOL - I feel your pain. I spend at least 5 minutes of my life every week screwing around with cover art on Elite cases.
post #136 of 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

would love to hear the official explanation....

I'm wondering if the reencode was to fix the menus for the fake PiP. With my original AVC encoded disc, once you start the PiP version of the movie, there was no way to re-enter the menu. Only thing you could do was to chapter skip to the end of the movie to get to the menu. Can anyone with the newer MPEG version see if this is the same way?
post #137 of 793
Thread Starter 
Hmm I tried to replicate your issue with my AVC disc in the PS3 and it lets me leave the PiP. I choose Underground Experience, hit popup menu, choose Main Menu and it goes fine and lets me select Unrated which plays without issue.

Can I live in your HT?
post #138 of 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

Hmm I tried to replicate your issue with my AVC disc in the PS3 and it lets me leave the PiP. I choose Underground Experience, hit popup menu, choose Main Menu and it goes fine and lets me select Unrated which plays without issue.

Can I live in your HT?

Dang, I wonder if the later PS3 firmware fixed this problem. I remember that there was no way to have the menu popup in the PiP version of the movie (no popup menu is available message). I'm going to have to retry this when I get home.
post #139 of 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunkaroo View Post

LOL - I feel your pain. I spend at least 5 minutes of my life every week screwing around with cover art on Elite cases.

Hehehe. I know it's a strange, compulsive thing but every time I get a new Blu-ray in an EM/ES case, I end up screwing around with the insert to get it lined up properly.
post #140 of 793
So is there a for sure way to know it's the AVC version by the case/cover art? I'd really like a AVC version.
post #141 of 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by xradman View Post

I'm wondering if the reencode was to fix the menus for the fake PiP. With my original AVC encoded disc, once you start the PiP version of the movie, there was no way to re-enter the menu. Only thing you could do was to chapter skip to the end of the movie to get to the menu. Can anyone with the newer MPEG version see if this is the same way?

good theory.

post #142 of 793
Thread Starter 
One more comparison, this time including a frame from one of the deleted scenes. It certainly appears grainier, but it's obviously from a separate print as it's got new specks.

post #143 of 793
Quote:


One more comparison, this time including a frame from one of the deleted scenes. It certainly appears grainier, but it's obviously from a separate print as it's got new specks.
.

Thanks msgohan. I found this discrepancy around July and reported here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post14260070
post #144 of 793
Thread Starter 
Little bit of an update, I sold both my copies on eBay and then picked up another AVC version from the same Wal-Mart. Same deal as before - numbered catalog sticker, BV case, the 2 inserts previously mentioned, darker disc art. So far the numbered sticker still seems to be the ticket for getting an AVC copy.

And we found out in the specs thread that the difference between the 2 Crank versions is a phantom Interactive Graphics stream on the original disc's PiP encode M2TS. The video/audio streams appear to be identical... I have 2 copies of the updated disc, one came in an EM case and the other in BV case with unnumbered catalog sticker and including the cardboard slipcover.
post #145 of 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

Little bit of an update, I sold both my copies on eBay and then picked up another AVC version from the same Wal-Mart. Same deal as before - numbered catalog sticker, BV case, the 2 inserts previously mentioned, darker disc art. So far the numbered sticker still seems to be the ticket for getting an AVC copy.

And we found out in the specs thread that the difference between the 2 Crank versions is a phantom Interactive Graphics stream on the original disc's PiP encode M2TS. The video/audio streams appear to be identical... I have 2 copies of the updated disc, one came in an EM case and the other in BV case with unnumbered catalog sticker and including the cardboard slipcover.

Unfortunately for me Movietyme replaced my MPEG2 edition with another MPEG2 edition....I returned for a credit....I just cannot get the AVC version as it seems to have been replaced with this inferior edition.
post #146 of 793
I found a copy in a BV case at DeepDiscount and thhought I had scored - turned out to be MPEG2.

I think I'm done hunting on this one - I'm just selling off all my copies.

EDIT: Checked my catalog sticker and it did NOT have the number under the title, but was still in a BV case. Oh well.
post #147 of 793
Well I stopped at the DeepDiscount store today to pickup Clone Wars during their sale, and I noticed they had another copy out of The Descent - this one in a BV case AND with the number on the sticker.

Brought my copy back and exchanged. Success! It was the AVC version. So this is another confirmation of numbered sticker + BV case + dark color on disc art = AVC.

Just sold off my MPEG version the other day so looks like I'm good. Thanks again to all who supplied the pertinent info.
post #148 of 793
Mod edit: Discribing how to take advantage of a retailer is frowned upon at AVS.
post #149 of 793
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the confirmation, bunkaroo. Especially that your MPEG-2 copy in the BV case DIDN'T have the number.

FoxyMulder, that sucks. I can still try to pick up a copy for you if you want. Any chance you checked the case/sticker details?

Interestingly, Amazon.ca has 2 listings for The Descent on Blu-ray:
"Import" dated 2006-12-26
and
A cheaper alternative dated 2007-01-09

Probably meaningless as I see they've done this for other BDs like Crank, but the dates don't differ for that one...
post #150 of 793
I had been planning on eventually picking up The Descent, but my hand was forced today when I saw a copy in a BV case with the studio number printed on the top sticker. Sure enough, AVC copy.

I just tested it in the PS3, and I was able to correctly switch between Rated, Unrated, and PiP modes. The pop-up menu worked fine in the PiP encode, and enabled me to return to the main menu and pick a different option.
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