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The Descent - 2 different Blu-ray versions CONFIRMED (MPEG-2 vs AVC encoding) - Page 2

post #31 of 789
9/7/08 at 2:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

When I prefer the PQ of Pan's Labyrinth (US) it might give you a pretty good idea...

I doubt if the master was that bad, to stay in your line of thinking.

Sorry but Pans Labyrinth had major DNR applied.....The version of The Descent i am watching does not regardless of codec used so we will have to disagree with one another on this small point.

As for the master quote....sorry once again as i wasn't thinking that. Never presume what another is thinking.
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post #32 of 789
9/8/08 at 5:52pm
interesting thread - mine is also the MPEG2 with 6.1 version, and it looks incredible imo... am curious to see any differences with the different encodes...
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post #33 of 789
9/8/08 at 6:21pm
xylon!
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post #34 of 789
9/9/08 at 7:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyMulder View Post

Sorry but Pans Labyrinth had major DNR applied.....The version of The Descent i am watching does not regardless of codec used so we will have to disagree with one another on this small point.

As for the master quote....sorry once again as i wasn't thinking that. Never presume what another is thinking.

Seeing the poor PQ of The Descent made it hard to presume anything else. You either have a different version of the movie or a very different norm of what looks 'good'.

I haven't the faintest clue why so many here say the PQ is excellent. It is grainy, indoor and outdoor (!), it is average at best in detail, has color fringing and on my JVC HD1 I couldn't get the colors to look life like.

I was appalled when I received the disc after reading the raving (AVC) review on High-Def Digest. Loved the dvd version on my old tv set.
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post #35 of 789
9/9/08 at 9:17am
This has me very curious what copy I have, I'll check when I get home but before I do I will say that I think my copy is a mixed bag. Mostly on the good side; nice colors, grain, and beautiful dark scenes with the flare and glow sticks revealing all the textures in the caves. Overall I am happy with a double dip on this one from DVD to BD.
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post #36 of 789
9/9/08 at 10:28am
I popped my copy in which I got from Columbia house this year and the PS3 said MPEG2.

The pisser is I had an older copy of it but got rid of it a while ago thinking I wouldn't watch it again, then changed my mind.

I'm getting a copy from Netflix and hopefully it will be the AVC so I can directly compare them.
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post #37 of 789
9/9/08 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

Seeing the poor PQ of The Descent made it hard to presume anything else. You either have a different version of the movie or a very different norm of what looks 'good'.

I haven't the faintest clue why so many here say the PQ is excellent. It is grainy, indoor and outdoor (!), it is average at best in detail, has color fringing and on my JVC HD1 I couldn't get the colors to look life like.

I was appalled when I received the disc after reading the raving (AVC) review on High-Def Digest. Loved the dvd version on my old tv set.

Personally i am appalled at your lack of film knowledge....Grain is part of film and part of the image it's what makes it so detailed....The detail levels are high and i can only assume you love eye candy grainless type films.

I will not respond again to this other than to say go check out my film grain allowed thread which is a sticky at the top of the page and you will see an indication of what is considered great quality film titles on Blu Ray.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037935
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post #38 of 789
9/9/08 at 3:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyMulder View Post

Personally i am appalled at your lack of film knowledge....Grain is part of film and part of the image it's what makes it so detailed....The detail levels are high and i can only assume you love eye candy grainless type films.

A bit sad that you have to present your views in such a negative way towards others. I am well aware of what grain is and of what looks good to me. I mentioned more than just the abundance of grain.
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post #39 of 789
9/9/08 at 4:53pm
Does anyone know if this isn't the only title to which Lionsgate has done this?

I ask because I had read three reviews that claimed SAW 3 was encoded with AVC, but when I finally got a copy, mine is in MPEG-2!?
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post #40 of 789
9/9/08 at 6:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

A bit sad that you have to present your views in such a negative way towards others. I am well aware of what grain is and of what looks good to me. I mentioned more than just the abundance of grain.

Says the person who one post earlier attacked my understanding of what is considered good....pot calling kettle springs to mind.
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post #41 of 789
9/9/08 at 6:57pm
Excess grain does suck.. Screw movie integrity! I want pretty..
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post #42 of 789
9/9/08 at 7:02pm
well, my Lion's Gate version has the Unrated and the Rated cuts, PCM 6.1, MPEG2 compression, and it looks fantastic. I would give it 4.5 for PQ.

how does the other one compare? does anybody have any other version to what I have? I got it from amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Descent-Origin...1012089&sr=1-1

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies...74&show=review
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post #43 of 789
9/9/08 at 7:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBI View Post

Excess grain does suck.. Screw movie integrity! I want pretty..

ooooooookkkkkkkkk.......
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post #44 of 789
9/9/08 at 9:52pm
It seems most of the time it's video gamers making those kind of statements.
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post #45 of 789
9/10/08 at 5:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyMulder View Post

Says the person who one post earlier attacked my understanding of what is considered good....pot calling kettle springs to mind.

I didn't do any such thing.
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post #46 of 789
9/10/08 at 6:17am
I guess the question that no one is asking is why? Was there ever a problem with the original AVC encoded disc???
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post #47 of 789
9/10/08 at 6:28am
Here's a good example of MPEG-2 and AVC looking near identical...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post13795877

... this is AvP with one trailer encoded with MPEG-2 and another encoded with AVC. They both look pretty close, but both are way different than the final product.

Either way, it shows that Descent MPEG2 and AVC can probably be very similar in PQ.
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post #48 of 789
9/10/08 at 7:17am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmaangel View Post

Does anyone know if this isn't the only title to which Lionsgate has done this?

I ask because I had read three reviews that claimed SAW 3 was encoded with AVC, but when I finally got a copy, mine is in MPEG-2!?

Well as stated, there was someone on HDD saying that this happened with Lionsgate's Young Guns release. Maybe they've done it with a bunch of their releases.

I do see that at least some reviews and Phloyd's Blu-ray Stats site state AVC for Saw III, meanwhile the specs thread says MPEG-2. Then there's DVDCompare's page which states that Lionsgate released it as AVC in Region A and MPEG-2 in Region B! The plot thickens...

Quote:
Originally Posted by xradman View Post

I guess the question that no one is asking is why? Was there ever a problem with the original AVC encoded disc???

I thought the question was implied. I'd certainly like to know what the deal is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by stumlad View Post

Here's a good example of MPEG-2 and AVC looking near identical...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post13795877

... this is AvP with one trailer encoded with MPEG-2 and another encoded with AVC. They both look pretty close, but both are way different than the final product.

Either way, it shows that Descent MPEG2 and AVC can probably be very similar in PQ.

Good point stumlad, I'd forgotten about that thread since the discussion quickly turned to trailer vs actual movie. Did you ever say which pics were which codec?
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post #49 of 789
9/10/08 at 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

I didn't do any such thing.

Of course you didn't.....Look up sarcasm as the above line by you doesn't even get close to being sarcastic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ettepet View Post

or a very different norm of what looks 'good'.

In any language that above quote is a put down of me as you are telling the world i don't know what looks good and indeed the majority of posters in this thread are being told by you they don't have a clue it's subtle but that's the only interpretation of that line with regards to this thread.

Ok now we have that out of the way i hope you have a very good afternoon and we can now get back to the actual movie at hand.
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post #50 of 789
9/10/08 at 2:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post


Good point stumlad, I'd forgotten about that thread since the discussion quickly turned to trailer vs actual movie. Did you ever say which pics were which codec?

To tell you the truth I dont even remember now, but I think the first pic in each set is the MPEG2 and the 2nd pic is the AVC. I know that they were all in the same order (always MPEG2, then AVC or the other way around). If you do a flip-pic on them, you can see minor differences, but nothing that would be very noticeable when watching it in motion (IMO of course).
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post #51 of 789
9/11/08 at 10:28am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stumlad View Post

To tell you the truth I dont even remember now, but I think the first pic in each set is the MPEG2 and the 2nd pic is the AVC. I know that they were all in the same order (always MPEG2, then AVC or the other way around). If you do a flip-pic on them, you can see minor differences, but nothing that would be very noticeable when watching it in motion (IMO of course).

Well flipping between them I decided that the first pic of each AVP trailer set was more blocky but appeared sharper/more detailed. There are fairly obvious differences without any zooming unlike the Transformers comparison. With sharpening and zooming the #1s look considerably blockier, except for parts of the Predator in the 2nd set, and the Alien in the 4th set actually looks way blockier in the #2. I wonder if The Descent will show tradeoffs like this.

The final set has some brightness differences where details dissapear in the second image, like that one Transformers frame... Weird.
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post #52 of 789
9/12/08 at 9:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

Can anyone with the AVC version and a BD drive please post the "modified" dates/graphs?

Here is the dir /s for my copy which is AVC.

Code:
 Volume in drive F is LOGICAL_VOLUME_ID
 Volume Serial Number is 456F-9EDF

 Directory of F:\\

12/01/2006  03:17 AM
BDMV 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
AACS 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
CERTIFICATE 0 File(s) 0 bytes Directory of F:\\BDMV 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
. 02/12/2043 02:48 PM
.. 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 120 index.bdmv 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 19,598 MovieObject.bdmv 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
PLAYLIST 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
CLIPINF 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
STREAM 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
AUXDATA 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
META 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
BDJO 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
JAR 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
BACKUP 2 File(s) 19,718 bytes Directory of F:\\BDMV\\PLAYLIST 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
. 02/12/2043 02:48 PM
.. 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00000.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00001.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 492 00003.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00006.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00007.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00008.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00009.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00010.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00011.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00012.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00013.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00014.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00015.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00016.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00018.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00019.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 394 00021.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 168 00022.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 9,674 00023.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00024.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 296 00026.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 296 00027.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 168 00030.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 154 00033.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 9,674 00034.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 1,434 00035.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 1,994 00036.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 636 00002.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 636 00025.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 952 00028.mpls 30 File(s) 29,912 bytes Directory of F:\\BDMV\\CLIPINF 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
. 02/12/2043 02:48 PM
.. 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 536 00000.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 1,968 00001.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 44,126 00002.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 800 00005.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 752 00006.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 25,736 00007.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 2,112 00008.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 944 00009.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 604 00010.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 556 00011.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 3,528 00012.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 6,724 00013.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 3,768 00014.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 1,144 00015.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 704 00017.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 828 00018.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 51,944 00020.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 412 00021.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 744 00022.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 4,832 00023.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 3,068 00024.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 2,492 00025.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 396 00027.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 324 00030.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 744 00031.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 412 00032.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 448 00033.clpi 27 File(s) 160,646 bytes Directory of F:\\BDMV\\STREAM 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
. 02/12/2043 02:48 PM
.. 11/18/2006 03:24 PM 56,887,296 00000.m2ts 11/18/2006 03:25 PM 372,750,336 00001.m2ts 11/26/2006 11:00 PM 21,667,233,792 00002.m2ts 11/18/2006 04:06 PM 126,892,032 00005.m2ts 11/18/2006 04:06 PM 113,854,464 00006.m2ts 11/18/2006 04:13 PM 5,126,922,240 00007.m2ts 11/18/2006 04:14 PM 533,839,872 00008.m2ts 11/18/2006 04:14 PM 178,366,464 00009.m2ts 11/18/2006 04:14 PM 71,049,216 00010.m2ts 11/18/2006 04:14 PM 56,924,160 00011.m2ts 11/18/2006 04:15 PM 772,079,616 00012.m2ts 11/18/2006 04:17 PM 1,408,475,136 00013.m2ts 11/18/2006 04:19 PM 1,048,485,888 00014.m2ts 11/18/2006 04:19 PM 211,501,056 00015.m2ts 11/18/2006 04:19 PM 101,308,416 00017.m2ts 11/18/2006 04:19 PM 137,048,064 00018.m2ts 11/18/2006 04:37 PM 12,668,018,688 00020.m2ts 11/18/2006 04:37 PM 6,365,184 00021.m2ts 11/18/2006 04:37 PM 145,348,608 00022.m2ts 11/18/2006 04:38 PM 1,130,582,016 00023.m2ts 11/26/2006 11:11 PM 1,353,068,544 00024.m2ts 11/26/2006 11:25 PM 911,904,768 00025.m2ts 11/18/2006 04:55 PM 7,127,040 00027.m2ts 11/18/2006 04:55 PM 221,184 00030.m2ts 11/26/2006 11:25 PM 126,572,544 00031.m2ts 11/30/2006 03:09 PM 9,590,784 00032.m2ts 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 10,432,512 00033.m2ts 27 File(s) 48,352,849,920 bytes Directory of F:\\BDMV\\AUXDATA 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
. 02/12/2043 02:48 PM
.. 0 File(s) 0 bytes Directory of F:\\BDMV\\META 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
. 02/12/2043 02:48 PM
.. 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
DL 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
ES 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
TN 0 File(s) 0 bytes Directory of F:\\BDMV\\META\\DL 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
. 02/12/2043 02:48 PM
.. 0 File(s) 0 bytes Directory of F:\\BDMV\\META\\ES 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
. 02/12/2043 02:48 PM
.. 0 File(s) 0 bytes Directory of F:\\BDMV\\META\\TN 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
. 02/12/2043 02:48 PM
.. 0 File(s) 0 bytes Directory of F:\\BDMV\\BDJO 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
. 02/12/2043 02:48 PM
.. 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 370 00000.bdjo 1 File(s) 370 bytes Directory of F:\\BDMV\\JAR 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
. 02/12/2043 02:48 PM
.. 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184,090 00000.jar 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
00001 1 File(s) 184,090 bytes Directory of F:\\BDMV\\JAR\\00001 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
. 02/12/2043 02:48 PM
.. 11/12/2006 05:19 PM 984,984 flare.bdmv 11/23/2006 01:20 PM 58,464 composite_addon_kp.png 11/22/2006 07:26 PM 166,566 loader.png 11/21/2006 07:04 AM 39,277 lights.png 11/21/2006 07:04 AM 3,004 perf_test.png 11/23/2006 02:05 PM 2,942,653 composite.png 11/12/2006 04:29 PM 108,972 activated.bdmv 11/12/2006 04:29 PM 32,096 selected.bdmv 11/15/2006 12:22 PM 108,972 activated_ao.bdmv 9 File(s) 4,444,988 bytes Directory of F:\\BDMV\\BACKUP 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
. 02/12/2043 02:48 PM
.. 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 120 index.bdmv 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 19,598 MovieObject.bdmv 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
PLAYLIST 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
CLIPINF 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
BDJO 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
JAR 2 File(s) 19,718 bytes Directory of F:\\BDMV\\BACKUP\\PLAYLIST 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
. 02/12/2043 02:48 PM
.. 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00000.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00001.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 492 00003.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00006.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00007.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00008.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00009.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00010.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00011.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00012.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00013.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00014.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00015.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00016.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00018.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00019.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 394 00021.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 168 00022.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 9,674 00023.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184 00024.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 296 00026.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 296 00027.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 168 00030.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 154 00033.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 9,674 00034.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 1,434 00035.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 1,994 00036.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 636 00002.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 636 00025.mpls 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 952 00028.mpls 30 File(s) 29,912 bytes Directory of F:\\BDMV\\BACKUP\\CLIPINF 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
. 02/12/2043 02:48 PM
.. 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 536 00000.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 1,968 00001.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 44,126 00002.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 800 00005.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 752 00006.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 25,736 00007.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 2,112 00008.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 944 00009.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 604 00010.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 556 00011.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 3,528 00012.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 6,724 00013.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 3,768 00014.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 1,144 00015.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 704 00017.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 828 00018.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 51,944 00020.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 412 00021.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 744 00022.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 4,832 00023.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 3,068 00024.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 2,492 00025.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 396 00027.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 324 00030.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 744 00031.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 412 00032.clpi 12/01/2006 02:51 AM 448 00033.clpi 27 File(s) 160,646 bytes Directory of F:\\BDMV\\BACKUP\\BDJO 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
. 02/12/2043 02:48 PM
.. 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 370 00000.bdjo 1 File(s) 370 bytes Directory of F:\\BDMV\\BACKUP\\JAR 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
. 02/12/2043 02:48 PM
.. 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 184,090 00000.jar 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
00001 1 File(s) 184,090 bytes Directory of F:\\BDMV\\BACKUP\\JAR\\00001 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
. 02/12/2043 02:48 PM
.. 11/12/2006 05:19 PM 984,984 flare.bdmv 11/23/2006 01:20 PM 58,464 composite_addon_kp.png 11/22/2006 07:26 PM 166,566 loader.png 11/21/2006 07:04 AM 39,277 lights.png 11/21/2006 07:04 AM 3,004 perf_test.png 11/23/2006 02:05 PM 2,942,653 composite.png 11/12/2006 04:29 PM 108,972 activated.bdmv 11/12/2006 04:29 PM 32,096 selected.bdmv 11/15/2006 12:22 PM 108,972 activated_ao.bdmv 9 File(s) 4,444,988 bytes Directory of F:\\AACS 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
. 02/12/2043 02:48 PM
.. 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 1,048,576 MKB_RO.inf 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 1,048,576 MKB_RW.inf 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 1,048,576 ContentRevocation.lst 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 65,536 Unit_Key_RO.inf 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 320 Content000.cer 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 152 Content001.cer 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 2,048 CPSUnit00001.cci 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 5,047 mcmf.xml 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
DUPLICATE 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 973,836 ContentHash001.tbl 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 993,880 ContentHash000.tbl 10 File(s) 5,186,547 bytes Directory of F:\\AACS\\DUPLICATE 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
. 02/12/2043 02:48 PM
.. 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 1,048,576 MKB_RO.inf 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 1,048,576 MKB_RW.inf 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 1,048,576 ContentRevocation.lst 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 65,536 Unit_Key_RO.inf 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 320 Content000.cer 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 152 Content001.cer 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 2,048 CPSUnit00001.cci 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 5,047 mcmf.xml 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 973,836 ContentHash001.tbl 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 993,880 ContentHash000.tbl 10 File(s) 5,186,547 bytes Directory of F:\\CERTIFICATE 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
. 02/12/2043 02:48 PM
.. 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
BACKUP 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 104 id.bdmv 11/20/2006 07:36 PM 865 app.discroot.crt 2 File(s) 969 bytes Directory of F:\\CERTIFICATE\\BACKUP 12/01/2006 03:17 AM
. 02/12/2043 02:48 PM
.. 12/01/2006 03:11 AM 104 id.bdmv 11/20/2006 07:36 PM 865 app.discroot.crt 2 File(s) 969 bytes Total Files Listed: 191 File(s) 48,372,904,400 bytes 66 Dir(s) 0 bytes free
I actually acquired this in a trade, so I am not 100 sure when it was bought, but I believe it was early on.

Aside from the Feb 2043 directories, nothing seems more recent than December 1st 2006.

It looks like most of the encoding was done November 18 2006, with the main feature done roughly a week later.

I would bet that the MPEG2 version should never have seen the light of day...
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post #53 of 789
9/12/08 at 9:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

I just noticed that Amazon lists the release date as 12/26/2006. Considering the MPEG-2 version has file modified dates of 01/08/2007, I guess that means it's actually the second version created...

That is almost certainly true based on what I posted above.

I wonder what they didn't like about the AVC version - perhaps PC's had issues with it.
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post #54 of 789
9/13/08 at 2:15am
that is a strange one indeed, but the MPEG looks fantastic regardless...
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post #55 of 789
9/13/08 at 8:46am
Whoah! There's an MPEG2 version of The Descent?

When we received a copy of this - quite close to the US release date, I remember - we got the AVC version and have ranked it as one of our 10/10 discs! Screen shots of the AVC version here:

http://whiggles.landofwhimsy.com/arc...ood_in_li.html

It looks like the MPEG-2 version has been pre-filtered as well, whereas the AVC version is unadulterated.
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post #56 of 789
9/13/08 at 8:59am
Thread Starter 
Excellent Phloyd, thank you! I hadn't thought of using the command-line to get a nice listing of the directory structure with full dates, clever.

Here's the dir /s for MPEG-2.

Code:
 Volume in drive X is LOGICAL_VOLUME_ID
 Volume Serial Number is 5414-5FA9

 Directory of X:\\

01/08/2007  07:45 PM
BDMV 01/08/2007 07:45 PM
AACS 01/08/2007 07:45 PM
CERTIFICATE 0 File(s) 0 bytes Directory of X:\\BDMV 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 120 index.bdmv 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 19,598 MovieObject.bdmv 01/08/2007 07:45 PM
PLAYLIST 01/08/2007 07:45 PM
CLIPINF 01/08/2007 07:45 PM
STREAM 01/08/2007 07:45 PM
AUXDATA 01/08/2007 07:45 PM
META 01/08/2007 07:45 PM
BDJO 01/08/2007 07:45 PM
JAR 01/08/2007 07:45 PM
BACKUP 2 File(s) 19,718 bytes Directory of X:\\BDMV\\PLAYLIST 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00000.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00001.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 492 00003.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00006.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00007.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00008.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00009.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00010.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00011.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00012.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00013.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00014.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00015.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00016.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00018.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00019.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 394 00021.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 168 00022.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 9,674 00023.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00024.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 296 00026.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 296 00027.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 168 00030.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 154 00033.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 9,674 00034.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 1,434 00035.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 1,994 00036.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 636 00002.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 636 00025.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 952 00028.mpls 30 File(s) 29,912 bytes Directory of X:\\BDMV\\CLIPINF 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 536 00000.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 1,968 00001.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 52,162 00002.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 800 00005.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 752 00006.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 25,736 00007.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 2,112 00008.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 944 00009.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 604 00010.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 556 00011.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 3,528 00012.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 6,724 00013.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 3,768 00014.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 1,144 00015.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 704 00017.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 828 00018.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 51,944 00020.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 412 00021.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 744 00022.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 4,832 00023.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 3,596 00024.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 2,984 00025.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 396 00027.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 336 00030.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 744 00031.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 412 00032.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 448 00033.clpi 27 File(s) 169,714 bytes Directory of X:\\BDMV\\STREAM 11/18/2006 04:24 PM 56,887,296 00000.m2ts 11/18/2006 04:25 PM 372,750,336 00001.m2ts 01/08/2007 07:10 PM 21,593,690,112 00002.m2ts 11/18/2006 05:06 PM 126,892,032 00005.m2ts 11/18/2006 05:06 PM 113,854,464 00006.m2ts 11/18/2006 05:13 PM 5,126,922,240 00007.m2ts 11/18/2006 05:14 PM 533,839,872 00008.m2ts 11/18/2006 05:14 PM 178,366,464 00009.m2ts 11/18/2006 05:14 PM 71,049,216 00010.m2ts 11/18/2006 05:14 PM 56,924,160 00011.m2ts 11/18/2006 05:15 PM 772,079,616 00012.m2ts 11/18/2006 05:17 PM 1,408,475,136 00013.m2ts 11/18/2006 05:19 PM 1,048,485,888 00014.m2ts 11/18/2006 05:19 PM 211,501,056 00015.m2ts 11/18/2006 05:19 PM 101,308,416 00017.m2ts 11/18/2006 05:19 PM 137,048,064 00018.m2ts 11/18/2006 05:37 PM 12,668,018,688 00020.m2ts 11/18/2006 05:37 PM 6,365,184 00021.m2ts 12/13/2006 11:59 PM 145,532,928 00022.m2ts 11/18/2006 05:38 PM 1,130,582,016 00023.m2ts 01/08/2007 07:28 PM 1,405,802,496 00024.m2ts 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 983,033,856 00025.m2ts 11/18/2006 05:55 PM 7,127,040 00027.m2ts 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 1,431,552 00030.m2ts 11/27/2006 12:25 AM 126,572,544 00031.m2ts 11/30/2006 04:09 PM 9,590,784 00032.m2ts 12/01/2006 03:51 AM 10,432,512 00033.m2ts 27 File(s) 48,404,563,968 bytes Directory of X:\\BDMV\\META 01/08/2007 07:45 PM
DL 01/08/2007 07:45 PM
ES 01/08/2007 07:45 PM
TN 0 File(s) 0 bytes Directory of X:\\BDMV\\BDJO 01/08/2007 06:29 PM 370 00000.bdjo 1 File(s) 370 bytes Directory of X:\\BDMV\\JAR 01/08/2007 06:29 PM 188,819 00000.jar 01/08/2007 07:45 PM
00001 1 File(s) 188,819 bytes Directory of X:\\BDMV\\JAR\\00001 11/12/2006 06:19 PM 984,984 flare.bdmv 11/23/2006 02:20 PM 58,464 composite_addon_kp.png 11/22/2006 08:26 PM 166,566 loader.png 11/21/2006 08:04 AM 39,277 lights.png 11/21/2006 08:04 AM 3,004 perf_test.png 11/23/2006 03:05 PM 2,942,653 composite.png 11/12/2006 05:29 PM 108,972 activated.bdmv 11/12/2006 05:29 PM 32,096 selected.bdmv 11/15/2006 01:22 PM 108,972 activated_ao.bdmv 9 File(s) 4,444,988 bytes Directory of X:\\BDMV\\BACKUP 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 120 index.bdmv 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 19,598 MovieObject.bdmv 01/08/2007 07:45 PM
PLAYLIST 01/08/2007 07:45 PM
CLIPINF 01/08/2007 07:45 PM
BDJO 01/08/2007 07:45 PM
JAR 2 File(s) 19,718 bytes Directory of X:\\BDMV\\BACKUP\\PLAYLIST 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00000.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00001.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 492 00003.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00006.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00007.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00008.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00009.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00010.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00011.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00012.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00013.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00014.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00015.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00016.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00018.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00019.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 394 00021.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 168 00022.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 9,674 00023.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 184 00024.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 296 00026.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 296 00027.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 168 00030.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 154 00033.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 9,674 00034.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 1,434 00035.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 1,994 00036.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 636 00002.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 636 00025.mpls 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 952 00028.mpls 30 File(s) 29,912 bytes Directory of X:\\BDMV\\BACKUP\\CLIPINF 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 536 00000.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 1,968 00001.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 52,162 00002.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 800 00005.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 752 00006.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 25,736 00007.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 2,112 00008.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 944 00009.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 604 00010.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 556 00011.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 3,528 00012.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 6,724 00013.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 3,768 00014.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 1,144 00015.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 704 00017.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 828 00018.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 51,944 00020.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 412 00021.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 744 00022.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 4,832 00023.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 3,596 00024.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 2,984 00025.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 396 00027.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 336 00030.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 744 00031.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 412 00032.clpi 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 448 00033.clpi 27 File(s) 169,714 bytes Directory of X:\\BDMV\\BACKUP\\BDJO 01/08/2007 06:29 PM 370 00000.bdjo 1 File(s) 370 bytes Directory of X:\\BDMV\\BACKUP\\JAR 01/08/2007 06:29 PM 188,819 00000.jar 01/08/2007 07:45 PM
00001 1 File(s) 188,819 bytes Directory of X:\\BDMV\\BACKUP\\JAR\\00001 11/12/2006 06:19 PM 984,984 flare.bdmv 11/23/2006 02:20 PM 58,464 composite_addon_kp.png 11/22/2006 08:26 PM 166,566 loader.png 11/21/2006 08:04 AM 39,277 lights.png 11/21/2006 08:04 AM 3,004 perf_test.png 11/23/2006 03:05 PM 2,942,653 composite.png 11/12/2006 05:29 PM 108,972 activated.bdmv 11/12/2006 05:29 PM 32,096 selected.bdmv 11/15/2006 01:22 PM 108,972 activated_ao.bdmv 9 File(s) 4,444,988 bytes Directory of X:\\AACS 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 1,048,576 MKB_RO.inf 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 1,048,576 MKB_RW.inf 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 1,048,576 ContentRevocation.lst 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 65,536 Unit_Key_RO.inf 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 312 Content000.cer 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 160 Content001.cer 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 2,048 CPSUnit00001.cci 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 5,047 mcmf.xml 01/08/2007 07:45 PM
DUPLICATE 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 981,808 ContentHash001.tbl 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 988,004 ContentHash000.tbl 10 File(s) 5,188,643 bytes Directory of X:\\AACS\\DUPLICATE 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 1,048,576 MKB_RO.inf 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 1,048,576 MKB_RW.inf 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 1,048,576 ContentRevocation.lst 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 65,536 Unit_Key_RO.inf 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 312 Content000.cer 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 160 Content001.cer 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 2,048 CPSUnit00001.cci 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 5,047 mcmf.xml 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 981,808 ContentHash001.tbl 01/08/2007 07:39 PM 988,004 ContentHash000.tbl 10 File(s) 5,188,643 bytes Directory of X:\\CERTIFICATE 01/08/2007 07:45 PM
BACKUP 01/08/2007 06:29 PM 104 id.bdmv 11/20/2006 08:36 PM 865 app.discroot.crt 2 File(s) 969 bytes Directory of X:\\CERTIFICATE\\BACKUP 01/08/2007 06:29 PM 104 id.bdmv 11/20/2006 08:36 PM 865 app.discroot.crt 2 File(s) 969 bytes Total Files Listed: 191 File(s) 48,424,650,234 bytes 22 Dir(s) 0 bytes free
I've never heard of "Volume Serial Number" before. I guess our serial numbers would match if we had identical copies of another movie?

My listing doesn't include the empty "." and ".." directory structures, for whatever reason.

It appears that...
AVC version: authored 12/01/2006 and released 12/26/2006
MPEG-2 version: authored 01/08/2007 and silently released ???/2007

Despite differing "modified" dates, the majority of the file sizes are identical.

\\BDMV\\STREAM: 00002.m2ts, 00022.m2ts, 00024.m2ts, 00025.m2ts, and 00030.m2ts have different file sizes and dates. All of the others have the same size and date but each of the times are actually an hour later. PC clock difference? Daylight saving time?

\\BDMV\\CLIPINF: 4 of the 5 files that correspond to the 5 replaced M2TS files have different sizes. As expected since these files describe the contents of the video files. The other one is probably different as well but it's only 744 bytes so it just happens to have the same size.

\\BDMV\\JAR: The only file, 00000.jar, has a different size.

\\BDMV\\JAR\\00001: Hour time difference again, on all files.

Rest of the disc is backup files and AACS protection.

It's interesting that the JAR (BD-Java) file is different. It fits with my thought that perhaps the disc was redone to fix the playback problems that were reported. I can't see any reason for modifying this file if the intent was just to replace the encode - it's not as if they had to replace some text in the menu saying what codec is used. On the other hand, I also see no reason to re-encode the movie if BD-Java was the issue.

Is this just promo art? My copy doesn't have the quote on the cover.


Perhaps the real question is: who the hell was up at 3:17 AM creating the original disc?
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post #57 of 789
9/13/08 at 9:03am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyris View Post

Whoah! There's an MPEG2 version of The Descent?

When we received a copy of this - quite close to the US release date, I remember - we got the AVC version and have ranked it as one of our 10/10 discs! Screen shots of the AVC version here:

http://whiggles.landofwhimsy.com/arc...ood_in_li.html

It looks like the MPEG-2 version has been pre-filtered as well, whereas the AVC version is unadulterated.

Thanks for the JPEGs, I'll try to match them. Any chance you guys could post some PNG shots?
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post #58 of 789
9/13/08 at 10:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

Thanks for the JPEGs, I'll try to match them. Any chance you guys could post some PNG shots?

Hey Msgohan, I'm the one who took the JPEG images. I've done PNGs for you, of the same frames that you captured. I've posted them below, along with your captures from the MPEG-2 version as comparison. The difference in image quality is quite worrying, particularly given that there seems to be no clear way to identify which version you have from the packaging alone.

MPEG-2 (msgohan's shot):


AVC (my shot):



MPEG-2 (msgohan's shot):


AVC (my shot):



MPEG-2 (msgohan's shot):


AVC (my shot):



MPEG-2 (msgohan's shot):


AVC (my shot):



MPEG-2 (msgohan's shot):


AVC (my shot):



MPEG-2 (msgohan's shot):


AVC (my shot):



EDIT: and here are screen captures of the PiP encode, again with msgohan's shots from the MPEG-2 disc first and then mine from the AVC disc (although the AVC disc shares the same MPEG-2 encode of the PiP mode) second:

MPEG-2 disc (msgohan's shot):


AVC disc (my shot):



MPEG-2 disc (msgohan's shot):


AVC disc (my shot):



MPEG-2 disc (msgohan's shot):


AVC disc (my shot):



MPEG-2 disc (msgohan's shot):


AVC disc (my shot):



MPEG-2 disc (msgohan's shot):


AVC disc (my shot):



MPEG-2 disc (msgohan's shot):


AVC disc (my shot):
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post #59 of 789
9/13/08 at 10:49am
Mmmmm, look at all them grains in the AVC version. That looks amazing. It's like Xylon's Miami Vice HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray captures. I'm going to have to check out my copy of the Descent and pray that it's AVC. Mine would've been bought around the middle of 2007 from Wal-Mart in Canada.

EDIT: Whoo, AVC! Just checked it.
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post #60 of 789
9/13/08 at 12:11pm
The AVC is clearly superior with some fine grain which should be there.....I thought the MPEG2 looked great but the AVC blows it away from those screenshots from my fellow scotsman.
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