or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Programming › The Mentalist on CBS HD
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Mentalist on CBS HD - Page 8

post #211 of 658
...and we're back. I loved what they tried to do with that premiere; the plausibility of the last courtroom scene was never going to work, but that's okay for me. I wish they would have stretched out that story into 2 or 3 episodes because they could have done so much more with it. Loved Cho and Rigsby stepping up for Jane in this one, Jane's ruse, and of course the interaction between Jane and Lisbon that is now far and away my favourite between 2 leads on any show I currently watch.

Was looking forward to this episode more than any other this fall, broadcast or cable... and for the most part it didn't disappoint.
post #212 of 658
He had to convince the jury that he killed Red John and not a random stranger, so we could walk free and search for the real Red John, that's why he was saying that to Lisbon..

So that guy must have been one of RJ's minions cleary, was told what to say and how to act to Jane, they also hired that guard to remove evidence to get Pat into jail..

But I'm still wondering the motive, either get Patrick in jail possible death penalty or make everybody think that Red John is dead, mmmm..
post #213 of 658
This is one my favorite shows, but it all seemed too neat and tidy. Agreed that it shouldn't have been wrapped up in one episode...almost seemed like it all happened in one week. Pretty sure a trial like that would take months to get scheduled, prepared, etc. Also, I don't know how a jury could ever let him off when he admitted that he pulled the trigger. He didn't argue self-defense because they never found the gun....so he basically argued revenge and the jury completely threw the law out the window and found him not guilty. Seems like way too much of a stretch. They should have had them find the gun or somehow prove that "Red John" had the gun so that a self-defense argument could fly. Just my opinion...
post #214 of 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by danc8379 View Post

This is one my favorite shows, but it all seemed too neat and tidy. Agreed that it shouldn't have been wrapped up in one episode...almost seemed like it all happened in one week.

I agree it was rushed. Almost like the last five minutes of Saving Grace where they wrapped up the murder each week. I try to buy the premise but have never quite gotten there so this episode was even more difficult. If Lisbon wasn't around I'm pretty sure I wouldn't look in. I didn't even catch last year's finale until it was repeated... it got deleted or wasn't even recorded...
post #215 of 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey mo View Post

First of all to establish the affirmative defense of "self defense" Jane must show that he (jane) was not the aggressor. Jane must show that he had an imminent reasonable fear for his life or great bodily harm from RJ. Also, if he did fear for his life he has a duty to retreat if he can do so, before using deadly force as a last resort.

Clearly Jane was the aggressor. Clearly Jane did not fear for his life at the moment he pulled the trigger.

Jane needs a good defense attorney and go for "jury nullification".

Should I take my bow now or later?
post #216 of 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey mo View Post

Should I take my bow now or later?

Yeah, but I still say that if the gun hadn't disappeared they could have at least argued self-defense. At the end of last season we had no way of knowing it would go missing.
post #217 of 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by danc8379 View Post

Yeah, but I still say that if the gun hadn't disappeared they could have at least argued self-defense. At the end of last season we had no way of knowing it would go missing.

When the gun went missing, I would have thought everyone, including Jane, would have realized Red john must be alive. Because no one else had a motive to take the gun and cell phone other than the real Red John. Maybe Jane did know at that time and he realized he needed something else to make his murder seem more plausible.

What would Jane use as a defense if he finds the Real Red John and he kills him in cold blood just as he did before? He can't plead the same defense of killing a mass murderer. I just hope the show hasn't put themselves into a box. They are starting to seem as if they need Red John alive to give Jane meaning to his participation with the team. They hinted at it in the last scene. Fortunately Jane said Red John is alive. So, we go on. But they have to end this Red John timeline. Fool me once, brilliant. Fool me twice, I start to feel like I'm being used.
post #218 of 658
So uh... The premiere undoes the tail end of the previous season. Couldn't they have found another overarching plot theme instead of playing the, j/k Red John isn't dead card and dragging it out even more. There's nothing quite like letting your audience know you've been lying to them for many episodes in the previous season.

Did they hire Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof or something?
post #219 of 658
I think the point was that Jane mass hypnotized the jury in some way to get such a favorable verdict. And the writers obviously wrote themselves in a corner when they decided to make killing RJ the finale last season - it was obviously not gonna happen because without RJ there is no Jane and this no show, but they had to do it for the dramatic effect. Waste of Josh in that scene!
post #220 of 658
From a historical perspective, in The Profiler, they caught "Jack of all Trades" at the end of a season, only later to reveal later that it wasn't Jack at all, but a dilusional person who thought he was Jack. I got the same feeling from this guy when Patrick shot him. He just did not seem charismatic enought to have gotten so many talented people to die for him. I assumed that Red John was still out there.

Bosco told Jane to kill him when he found him, and Jane said "That's the plan." So I assume he will have no problem in killing the real Red John when the time comes.

I assume that Jane thought it was Red John until the moment that the gun and cell phone disappeared. Only then did he know that he was fooled, and Red John wanted Jane to spend life in prison at least, or executed at best. Now that Jane is out, they both are more dangerous than ever, to each other.
post #221 of 658
I think some of you forget that RJ has minions (it never gets discussed in the show verse either for some strange reason, though it should be obvious to all. In the finale alone there was FBI guy and the hitwoman.) that are willing to sacrifice themselves. Bradley Whitford was just the last of many.
post #222 of 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

I think some of you forget that RJ has minions (it never gets discussed in the show verse either for some strange reason, though it should be obvious to all. In the finale alone there was FBI guy and the hitwoman.) that are willing to sacrifice themselves. Bradley Whitford was just the last of many.

I think you are on to something. Just who and what, as well as how, does a guy organize the type of organization that RJ heads. Does he have a secretary? Does he do all of the killing himself? He just cannot be your average businessman and family guy who moonlights by killing people.
post #223 of 658
It seems a red guy named John shouldn't be hard to find.
post #224 of 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey mo View Post

I think you are on to something. Just who and what, as well as how, does a guy organize the type of organization that RJ heads. Does he have a secretary? Does he do all of the killing himself? He just cannot be your average businessman and family guy who moonlights by killing people.

Why is he called "Red" John and many of the episodic titles include the word "red" or some variation of that color? As we all know, the Devil is usually depicted as being red in color. And the only entity that could possibly pull off this ongoing, ridiculously complex and elaborately masterful series of murders and shenanigans would be the Devil himself.

So, the Devil is Red John.
post #225 of 658
This series has lost credibility with me because of the ridicules opener and what should of been at least a charge of manslaughter, if not 2nd or 3rd degree murder, getting a 'not guilty' verdict.
Even if it could be proven it was this 'RedJohn' (which admittedly could not be determined), it was still premeditated murder.

Someone mentioned last season was suppose to be the last, so the writers figured to end it there??
post #226 of 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

This series has lost credibility with me because of the ridicules opener and what should of been at least a charge of manslaughter, if not 2nd or 3rd degree murder, getting a 'not guilty' verdict.
Even if it could be proven it was this 'RedJohn' (which admittedly could not be determined), it was still premeditated murder.


Just asking, but isn't this just a reflection of real life?

OJ and Casey Anthony come to mind ..........
post #227 of 658
So this whole time Jane could tell if a person was lying,but not this time. He murdered a bad guy, he thought was red john, but so what, he was bad. So can he just shoot everyone he wants to now. Next time he thinks someone might be red john, and tells him a new piece of evidence, he can do it again, and again. When can we ever be sure it is the real red john, now that we know that Jane will believe anyone that says they did it.
post #228 of 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by apk8 View Post

Just asking, but isn't this just a reflection of real life?

OJ and Casey Anthony come to mind ..........



I think the biggest difference here is that he openly admitted to killing him, and there were multiple witnesses who saw it as well. Anytime there's possible doubt a jury could say "not guilty", but in this case he said he did it and for a jury to come back "not guilty" doesn't seem realistic at all.
post #229 of 658
Lack or realism on a TV crime show. OMG, I need to sit down and think this through.
post #230 of 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by David James View Post

Lack or realism on a TV crime show. OMG, I need to sit down and think this through.

Reminds me of my wife telling me about her grandmother who had to dress up to watch the news because the newsmen could see her. If my wife didn't have her dressed pulled down over her knees she got a scolding.
post #231 of 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by vandella View Post

So this whole time Jane could tell if a person was lying,but not this time. He murdered a bad guy, he thought was red john, but so what, he was bad. So can he just shoot everyone he wants to now. Next time he thinks someone might be red john, and tells him a new piece of evidence, he can do it again, and again. When can we ever be sure it is the real red john, now that we know that Jane will believe anyone that says they did it.

Jane was under extreme duress. The Red John impersonator very deliberately pressed all of Janes well-controled buttons, causing him to completely lose it. remember, Jane hates guns and never carries one. This was most certainly an unusual situation. Jane really thought this guy was Red John until he was told the gun and the phone were missing from the crime scene. At that moment, he realized that Red John had played both him, and the impersonator. Red John WANTED Jane to spend life in prision, or eve be executed.

I seriously doubt that Jane would have gone to such lengths to hypnotize the jury if he really had killed Red John. He knew he would have to do the time, but once he realized that he had been duped, and that Red John was still out there, he HAD to get free, to continue the hunt. It became an imperitive for him. He could not have done it from a prison cell.

The impersonator had very specific information that only Red John would have known, and he said it in a way to provoke Jane. The only source for this information was Red John himself, so if he wasn't Red John, then he must still be out there.

You never know what a California jury will do.
post #232 of 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by David James View Post

Lack of realism on a TV crime show. OMG, I need to sit down and think this through.



I do find this area interesting, the things that set people off about a television show. Railing against a "lack of realism" in certain respects, but overlooking or ignoring more glaring issues. Often, the very concept of the show itself.
post #233 of 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

This series has lost credibility with me because of the ridicules opener and what should of been at least a charge of manslaughter, if not 2nd or 3rd degree murder, getting a 'not guilty' verdict.
Even if it could be proven it was this 'RedJohn' (which admittedly could not be determined), it was still premeditated murder.

You never know in California, but the judge would have instructed the jury on the "lesser included offenses" of 2nd degree murder, etc. and the various degrees of manslaughter and negligent homicide.

As we have discussed at length, this is just a plain old case of "Jury Nullification".

However, I don't believe in real life that the judge would have allowed Jane to testify and/or argue about why he shot the victim. Such testimony would not be relevent as to the necessary proven elements of 1st degree murder, as they would have been at the separate sentencing phase of the trial.
post #234 of 658
Jane shot and killed someone he thought was red john. So the next time he runs into a red john impersonator and tell's Patrick something "only red john could know", he gets a free pass to kill him too. And so on and so on.
post #235 of 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey mo View Post

I think you are on to something. Just who and what, as well as how, does a guy organize the type of organization that RJ heads. Does he have a secretary? Does he do all of the killing himself? He just cannot be your average businessman and family guy who moonlights by killing people.

Probably the best question out there is how big can this group be? It's very large and no one ever comes out and exposes it? Well, it is tv fiction and if we are to enjoy the show we have to buy in to a certain extent.
I'll throw an earlier premise out that it is a cult and to join one must commit a RJ type crime. It may not be a brutal murder, but a kidnapped girl like this episode had would qualify. Having done the crime, they pretty much have sold themselves to the cult.
It is interesting that cult members seem to be able to lie convincingly to Jane. Perhaps a trail to a psychiatrist who treats patients and recruits them by condoning their fantasies and encouraging them to act. This would explain how the RJ impersonator found a wife who would participate in a kidnapping and confinement of a girl.
post #236 of 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybobg View Post

Probably the best question out there is how big can this group be? It's very large and no one ever comes out and exposes it? Well, it is tv fiction and if we are to enjoy the show we have to buy in to a certain extent.
I'll throw an earlier premise out that it is a cult and to join one must commit a RJ type crime. It may not be a brutal murder, but a kidnapped girl like this episode had would qualify. Having done the crime, they pretty much have sold themselves to the cult.
It is interesting that cult members seem to be able to lie convincingly to Jane. Perhaps a trail to a psychiatrist who treats patients and recruits them by condoning their fantasies and encouraging them to act. This would explain how the RJ impersonator found a wife who would participate in a kidnapping and confinement of a girl.

There is already a cult on this show and if Malcolm McDowell is not RJ, then it's a huge red herring. It's so obvious, if just about has to be a "rh" and yet, a competing cult introduced now seems like poor writing to me.
post #237 of 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

There is already a cult on this show and if Malcolm McDowell is not RJ, then it's a huge red herring. It's so obvious, if just about has to be a "rh" and yet, a competing cult introduced now seems like poor writing to me.

Agree that MM and his group is the obvious route. The writers have decided not to continue that arc. That cult does fit the criteria.
post #238 of 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybobg View Post

Agree that MM and his group is the obvious route. The writers have decided not to continue that arc. That cult does fit the criteria.

MM made a comment after last season's finale, "I thought I was Red John" with an enigmatic smile on his face. I'm not convinced the arc is dead.
post #239 of 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

There is already a cult on this show and if Malcolm McDowell is not RJ, then it's a huge red herring. It's so obvious, if just about has to be a "rh" and yet, a competing cult introduced now seems like poor writing to me.

Yes, this is the only sensible explanation for RJ's legion of minions. I think Red John is not a person, but the MM cult itself. Jane did not kill "RJ," but he did kill the person who killed his family. I think MM will pop up once a season to set up the series finale big reveal.
post #240 of 658
Yeah, maybe until the end of the season, so far, just a bunch of "regular" episodes, no clues or anything at all..
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: HDTV Programming
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Programming › The Mentalist on CBS HD