*Official* Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 thread - Page 50

I'm on XP so this is guesswork to a degree...
Ok, if you go into Control Panel>Sound, then for the Xonar Properties>Supported Formats, are the DD/DTS formats ticked to passthrough? Under Configure in the same spot are you set to 7.1 (or whatever)? Also tick Exclusive Mode for good measure
In PDVD 7.3 at least, I have no option to select hdmi, everything is multichannel. But try a dvd in MPC and see if it passes through the DTS.

Thanks for that, I'll try it this afternoon, if all else fails then back to xp.
I know people say they can't tell the difference between all this bitstreaming and 96khz to 192, but i definately can, and my ears are fugged. The difference isn't in the main dialogue but in everything else you can hear in the background, its the main reason you employ a 5.1 or in my case 7.1 setup, to fell like you're in the movie and can experience the environment.
If its not bitstreaming by this afternoon, i'll just go back to xp and wait till they and the software goons get on top of the tech and fix this dilemma.
Thanks for your input mate, and cheers for the quick reply, wasn't sure if anyone was awake yet.

So if you use the Xonar to a dedicated hdmi display, through your receiver, and you connect a second display for other desktop activities, the brightness might not be an issue since the second display is not connected to the Xonar. Sounds like a plan.

Bitstreaming wont be possible in vista because the drivers dont support it yet..

I think my support query is no 'echoing' around Asus's tech support center. I will give him 5 working days and update my question again if i receive no response.

Next question will be: who exactly has he emailed, and when can we expect to see the new driver release for vista?

If i keep this up, it should (and i know this from working in support myself) piss him off. Eventually he will have no choice either to escalate the case to management, or to gain an answer to my questions! To get what you want, its important to be persistant.

If it comes down to it, each email i receive from asus asks if you are satisified with the support and if not, you can contact a supervisor there. This of course may be the end result, but i certainly wont give up easily!

Its one thing paying so much money for this card considering the driver support at the moment, but its another kettle of fish when they do not answer your questions. After all, this is why the support section is there.

Yes dave, its still open! Been there a couple of times myself

Am I the only one who believes "echo" is Asus' automated response?

You have made my YEAR. Thanks for replying.

Den Haag for me!

k, also OT, but I just saw you're in Leiden wow - I read about the city not too long ago. We wouldn't have found out about Factor V Leiden had it not been for that city, or specifically the researchers there. I also got that question right when it showed up on my exam

Didn't actually think I'd run into anyone from there.

(/OT)

And now back to the regularly scheduled complaining about the HDAV card.

Hi all

I installed my new HDAV deluxe card yesterday and everyting went OK, but when I played Ironman, there were some sound issues through out the movie.

Some times during the movie there were a scratching sound, almost like a very old LP, do you have any ideas what the problem can be.

The HDAV is connected using the analogs out to my Lexicon MC-12B.

my system:

AMD 4850e
AMD M3N78-EMH HDMI
LG GGC-H20L
ASUS HDAV deluxe
Corsair XMS2 DHX 2 x 2 GB

Best Regards

Allllrighty then...... I need some clarification regarding bitstreaming. I know what it is, but how do you know when you're doing it?
My receiver is set up to automatic.... it sees whats coming through and displays accordingly.
Now when it says dolby digital 6.1 on my screen, its reciving a dolby digital 6.1 signal, easy enough.....
Is it bitstreaming the signal to the AVR and its then seen that its DD and decoding it, or has it picked up an already decoded signal being sent post processing that is dolby digital?

If its the later then no need to worry, but if what the AVR displays coming through is the bitstreaming audio....then the drivers already SUPPORT bitstreaming for vista, its the player you're using or vista itself. When i test what formats are supported by my AVR/soundcard in vista sound settings and try DD and DTS, both work and the AVR picks up i'm using each one. its the only time i see anything other than Multichannel, but thats enough proof that the drivers allow for bitstreaming already yeah? or no?
maybe the reason the TMT is bundled isnt for free supporting software but the only supporting software and the only one that will be able to?


PS I already mentioned that I believe "Echo" to be an automated ticket letting you know you're in a very long line for questions not to be answered.

It will bitstream the old DD/DTS. A cheap soundcard would do as much! Bitstreaming means the signal is being sent as is, and your amp will then decode it (it being the idea the amp will do a better job, not necessarily true).

This will work in any software that allows you to stream DD/DTS, not just TMT.

However, in Vista, it won't bitstream the new HD formats *yet*, the Xonar is converting all of these to multichannel. Again, it's debatable whether that actually makes any difference to the sound. I just like seeing my amp say it's receiving DTS MA

But the fact is it *should* bitstream them, we paid for it on the understanding it would, and as of yet it doesn't. When it is working, it will only be in TMT. PowerDVD *with this card* will still be sending multichannel (and removing parts of the audio signal). The rival Auzen card, due to be released soon, will bitstream using it's bundled revision of PDVD, but not TMT.

Um, what's your amp (I'm guessing an Onkyo)? It *it* capable of decoding the new HD audio formats? If not, this is all academic, as you would have to use multichannel anyway!

Okay, I've been reading through this thread and I'm sure I'm going to get at least one well-deserved reaming for this, but I'm genuinely hung on whether or not I want to get this card.

Current System:
Biostar 7050V-M7 Motherboard (soon to be replaced with Intel DG45ID)
Windows Vista Ultimate (32)
4 GB A-Data DDR2 800 RAM (Value-Type Stuff)
Onkyo SE200PCI (for music)
Sapphire Radeon HD4850 (Basic Version)
LG GGW-H20N
AnyDVD HD

At this point I'm using an older Denon for movies and a Rotel RSP-985 amped through a Hafler P3000 for music (stereo). I'll be visiting the USA in December, and was planning to pick up a Denon AVR-1909 for DVD/BR/Video playback and want to get the HDMI stuff set to do so accordingly. From everything I've read, this card is pretty useless in Vista, which would have made me completely lose interest and instead sit back and wait to see how Auzentech's offering shapes up, were it not for the fact that:

A) I've had a hard time finding their cards in Japan.
B) I immensely prefer TMT to PDVD and would like to use TMT.

This puts me in an aggravating spot as I would really like to pick up TMT, but don't want to buy it twice by purchasing the retail version, then purchasing it again with this board in the future if ASUS manages to get the problems fixed.

The options on the table, as I see it, are:

1) Buy this board, and wait out the issues.
2) Buy the TMT retail and use the LPCM 7.1 over HDMI from the 4850, and use the remaining funds for, well, something else. (maybe towards Sony's overpriced console?)

I'm beginning to feel the only solid BR option out there is a PS3, and it's time to just bite the bullet and pick one up and relegate BR on the HTPC to novelty/too damn lazy to go to the shelf status and simply enjoy the convenience that DVD/TV Tuners/etc offer on this setup instead.

So for those of you out there who have this, how do you feel about it? Is there enough benefit otherwise to using this audio card to offset the hopefully temporary inconvenience, or is it simply not worth the investment of time and finances?

You said it in that last statement

I just picked up my card yesterday, and haven't yet had the opportunity to try out any HD audio content with it, mostly because I'm having problems with the simple stuff, specifically playing DTS WAV files from my library. I use foobar2000 as a player, including the "spdif passthrough" component/plugin which worked with my previous card, passing DTS straight to my receiver. But with the HDAV card, foobar tells me "Sound card driver has refused SPDIF format".

In "Xonar HDAV Center", I'm using "HDMI mode", and I've tried the "DTS Interactive" setting of "HDMI Out" tab, as well as every combination of the other settings.

I've also tried playing it through both the "Speakers" and "Digital Output" playback devices (I'm using Vista), with the same result.

Any idea what I do need to do to get DTS passthrough working?

BTW, one quirky thing I did observe that folks might be interested in; while configuring the speaker setup in Vista (on the "Speakers" playback device), I noticed that my side satellites weren't getting any signal until I set the sample rate to 96KHz in HDAV Center, down from the 192KHz I had it set at. Instead, their signal was coming out the fronts. Dunno if that's something my receiver did (Onkyo TX-SR876) or not.

Hmm. It's worth noting that when the PS3 came out, it didn't offer 24p or bitstreaming either. And yet apparently this card is rubbish because it does the same?
I guess it depends how much you want stuff integrated into one box. Personally, I went against the PS3 at the time as a/bluetooth remote (fixable, but so is everything... at a price) b/won't play mkv and c/noise. Plus I wanted the option to play hd-dvd. YMMV, and it must be said your life will certainly have a lot less frustration if you buy a standalone or PS3.

Well, you don't want DTS Interactive set to on, unless you want the card to make *everything* DTS. Hmmm, isn't the Xonar showing up as a playback device in Vista Sound? You would configure DD/DTS passthrough there - Properties>Supported Formats, are the DD/DTS formats ticked to passthrough? Under Configure in the same spot are you set to 7.1 (or whatever)? Also tick Exclusive Mode.

That's my fundamental question I'm asking owners. Is this a horrible product or are these just growing pains?

I haven't had the opportunity to get hands-on with it, so I honestly don't know.


Having everything in one place is the ideal, but there's also a point where it's time to stop and realize that the square peg simply isn't going in the round hole, no matter what hammer is used or how hard the peg is hit. I've so far held off from purchasing the PS3 for the same reasons you've sited above, but as far as current options are where I live (my local electronics stores don't even carry BR players anymore, just recorders/players and combos) and Japanese mail order has proven problematic in the past, it's both the least expensive and the most reliable option available. The HTPC will still serve as a player for all the media formats I use (and some I don't currently) with or without this card, it just wouldn't have the full playback features supported.

Of course, if I did pick up TMT now, I could always move my retail copy to my MacBook (bootcamp) and use it to play BR off of HDD were I to purchase the ASUS card down the road.

My question, essentially, is whether or not there's anything currently that makes this card stand out from the HDMI BR audio I already get in Vista from the HD4850 I own.

The HDAV does not play PS3 games, though, which is the primary purpose of the PS3.

You have to look at what the primary purpose of the item is. In the case of the PS3, it is a game machine. It does that very well.

In the case of the HDAV, it is a sound card capable of bistreaming the new HD codecs at 24Hz without molesting the video. It does not do that at all.

I certainly take your point. I guess the question is, should someone invest in this card *when* (or for the pessimist, if) this card does all that it promised to do, or another option.

As it stands, it would make very little sense to purchase it *now*, especially running Vista. But for most people, it isn't even an option to do so anyway.

Is it worth holding off for a month before buying something else to see if Asus get it sorted? Probably. Or else you wouldn't be reading the thread, eh?

I'm in another boat entirely, in that I own the card, and am legitimately aggrieved it doesn't do what it says on the box. But if people don't own it, I don't see what their problem is. Asus haven't mucked around with *you*. There are enough of us who do (or did!) own it to do all the bitching required

The Haque IMO is a nicer city than Amsterdam..but that may be biassed cos i commute to Amsterdam every day !!
In case you wanted to know, im not actually Dutch, im a Brittish expat living here


LOL, funnily enough my GF studies Medical Biology here, there have been many a famous invention/studies here. In fact, the city is boasting it at the moment. Go in the center and there are banners down the shopping street about famous 'Leideners'. Its a beautiful city. IF you ever get the chance to visit the Netherlands, i would reccomend Going from Amsterdam>Leiden>The Hague, its on the same trainline and they are all very nice cities

Amersfoort too, but thats a bit out of the way

I purchased this card based on a few factors:

1- HDMI. I can now feed by Amp HDMI audio rather than SPDIF. This is usefull when it comes to HD audio (Despite being downsampled in Vista at the moment, the bitrate stays the same). This would mean, unlike my Realtek crappy built in sound, i get a one cable solution, far better audio playback from my Receiver and also better playback using the Amps in the Xonar itself.LPCM at the moment of course.

2- Music compared to onboard sound is far superior

3- The only way is up..as such. This product from its current status can only improve. There is absolutely no way that Asus just arent going to suppor this card in the future. Driver updates will be released very shortly.

4- For an HDMI solution, it was either Asus and Arcsoft, or Cyberlink and Auzentech. To be honest, the way that Auzen dish out their 'features' id rather deal with the current 'beta' drivers for this card.

Remember HDAV owners, Auzentech havent even released their HDMI solution yet, so lets at least credit Asus for getting this card on the market earlier.

In addition to this, look what Auzentech did to their Prelude customers! Told them HDMI functionality was available in the future, but now selling to sell it as a seperate card.

To be honest, when you balance it out IMO Asus are way favourable here.

Except there are far better, far cheaper solutions out there to get HDMI HD audio and video, albeit slightly bitstripped. Great example is the ATI 4x50/4x70, and they support 24p as well.

And I think you're taking a huge leap that the HDAV will continue to be supported. It's been released in a very limited fashion, and there have been almost no official driver updates from Asus. We also have no reason to believe that issues like the 24p one are even fixable through the drivers - this could easily be a hardware issue (as it was with previous IGP and dedicated graphics cards).

Anyway, you have better, cheaper options to get more than you can get today (in Vista) from the HDAV, in terms of HDMI HD audio/video.

In the case of 24p output, this does not make a difference to me as i can connect my PC directly to my TV anyway. In addition to this, it is very hard to find the difference in judder between 24p and 60hz, especially since most 60hz native LCDs which have a 24hz mode STILL perform 3:2 themselves to produce the final picture.

In regards to drivers. HDMI Sound cards are the future, Asus will be releasing more in the upcoming months/years. There is no reason to believe why they wouldnt add support to this card when in the future they will be releasing new HDMI cards as well.

Remember, this product is aimed at a specific market, motherbaords arent. Therefor there is more likely to be a driver update and support for this card in the future. Getting 24hz with this card in the future compared to opposing Motherboard solutions is a far more feasable option. In addition to this, unlike Motherboard manufactures, the pace of of the sound card market is far slower as far as development of new products are concerned.

If you are hooked up via HDMI the op-amps on the xonar won't help you at all.

Digital vs Digital Music should sound exactly the same from onboard or the xonar. Onboard analog is crap, but who uses onboard analog in their HTPC?

I presume his onboard isn't HDMI. I have onboard hdmi on my G35 motherboard, but a quick peek at the G35 thread will show you the problems we had with *that* (repeater bug, silent stream bug etc) and that doesn't do 24p either.

And clearly some digital equipment is better than others, or we wouldn't need these forums No onboard on the horizon seems likely to output unmolested audio - IIRC the G45, the great white hope, was slated to, but doesn't. Again I don't know of any GPU that is planned to offer this. Personally I think the Xonar sounds better than the onboard on my motherboard, but maybe my subconscious is just trying to make me feel better after all the expense!

In light of the fact that I have been really hard on Auzentech I feel that I need to speak up here about the Asus card. I don’t agree with the statement “at least credit Asus for getting this card on the market earlier.” If the product doesn’t do everything it is advertised to do then it should not be released.

The fact still remains that no one has been able to get HD audio bitstreaming working reliably. There are still some tough challenges they need to overcome. In the meantime the ATI 4550 is shipping for around $60. Since, no one has been able to prove that bitstreaming actually sounds better than 48 Khz 16 Bit PCM, the ATI card sounds like the best option right now.

Hopefully, they will figure this out quickly. However, I am not holding my breath.

Lets face it, you buy this card for a number things, most of which i listed beforehand. If you want bitstreaming(which i do) this is the only way forward at the moment. In addition to this, PAP will never be supported with the ATI 4xxx series in the future meaning audio bitdepth and frequency will always be downsampled, Pap will (and is in XP) be available with the Xonar. In addition to this, i do not beleive, even with digital, the ATI Card will do a better job with LPCM, especially since you will be comparing 16bit 48khz audio to that of what the Xonar is capable of 192khz 24 bit.

Finally, the Xonar is HDMI Certified, compared to that of the ATI offerings, meaning less hand shake problems etc. I dont trust my ATI 3850 since i found the EDID of card is incorrect. ATI are of course a graphics card manufacture, they dont target their cards or drivers particular at Audiophiles, unlike Asus will do in the future with this card.

I guess in regards to the release of this card, we agree to disagree. However, i much prefer to have a product in its beta stage compared to waiting an amount of time for the final version.- This is one of the reasons i wasnt put of purchasing this card.

In the PC world, futureproofing is almost non existant, but i wouldnt of spend this money on a component that i truly thought it would be a dissapointment in the long term.

Dont get me wrong, i have no affiliation with Asus, nor do i rate the company as a whole, but i trully think a big fuss is being made about this particular product. Patience is a virtue.

The opamps wont help you no, but using the phono & multi channel outputs will

In addition to this, i am strong believer that the quality of components used, even for the digital connection will make a difference in SQ. I know for a fact that the SPDIF connector of my old Creative Soundblaster created a better sound than my current built in realtek Audio.

There is a point where people mention with digital interconnects, there is no difference in quality, however, i believe one aspect is forgotten about when mentioning this and that is build quality(components used etc). For instance, why would their be premium HDMI cables available if they did not make a difference?

Why expensive HDMI? Because people are willing to pay for them! Nobody wants to hook up a $1000 BD to a $3000 receiver to a $8000 plasma with come cheap black cable, you want twine wrapped gold plated goodies. If you are of the, "it must be better because it cost more" mindset, I have some gold plated SATA cables I'll sell you for $85 a piece.

It's quite clear that's how you feel, so I won't bother arguing with you. But clearly there are many (at least for digital information) that sit on the other side of the fence.

As for the spdif on your creative v onboard, the creative drivers do alot to output so I can imagine that music could sound very different, also in XP the onboard stuff goes through kmixer which can really beat up your music. But DD or DTS off a disc or an ASIO or foobat + exclusive mode they should've been identical.

To make money from the ill informed?

Adam