or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Home Theater Computers › *Official* Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

*Official* Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 thread - Page 51

post #1501 of 9526
I do not see how it is possible to say that digital interconnects do not make a difference, why the heck would hifi reviews/magasines etc rate a interconnect better than another for instance?

I don think its a conspiracy theory and personally feel its consumer hipe.
post #1502 of 9526
Thanks everyone!

Looks like I'm going to sit back on this one until it supports at least one of the formats (DTS-HDMA, DD TrueHD) on Vista. Not seeing anything in the current features that my existing hardware doesn't do already.

Again, I really appreciate the feedback!
post #1503 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodgexander View Post

I do not see how it is possible to say that digital interconnects do not make a difference, why the heck would hifi reviews/magasines etc rate a interconnect better than another for instance?

I don think its a conspiracy theory and personally feel its consumer hipe.

I've never seen such a review.

Also that's akin to saying that a specific IDE cable gave better throughput. If there was any meaningful difference in digital cables it would be a huge issue in high performance computing and server space and it's not.

The very nature of digital information is that it either gets there or it doesn't. The packets generally have checksum to tollerate a small amount of interfence. If you've ever seen an HDMI cable reach it's breaking point at first you get sparkles then catastrophic picture failure.

You go spend you top $ on highend digital cables, but I think you'll find that more reviews than not settle on a digital interconnect working or not.

There are differences in built quality, but those equate to logenvity and useability (how many insertions, how flexible can you run), ect... So don't get me wrong buying something that isn't dirt cheap might still be adivisable, but it's not gonna make it look or sound better.
post #1504 of 9526
I know I will get blasted here, but, when it comes to digital interconnects, the only reason to get a more expensive one is the quality of the connection itself and the capacity of the cable to carry the signal over a greater distance.
Does it stay properly connected and are the contacts good. Can I go more than 3 feet before I start losing too many bits and lose the actual connection (that does not change the quality besides stuttering and losing the sound in and out... - when the signal is locked the quality will be the same...)
As far as the quality of the sound from cheap to insanely expensive digital cables, it should not matter much.
A bit in should be the same bit out. Error correction on both ends should make sure that the bit that is 1 stays 1 and the bit that is 0 should still be a 0.
So the quality will NOT be lost on the cable itself. As opposed to analog cables where interference can change the modulation or pitch or any other little things in the signal; digital signal is not quite prone to this - it's either a 1 or a 0, not an almost 1 or not quite a zero... lol.
post #1505 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodgexander View Post

I do not see how it is possible to say that digital interconnects do not make a difference, why the heck would hifi reviews/magasines etc rate a interconnect better than another for instance?

I don think its a conspiracy theory and personally feel its consumer hipe.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-11276_7-6845988-3.html
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1046880
post #1506 of 9526
Finally got my card last night been waiting for this thing since it was announced back in june or july.

System config
OS: Windows XP SP2
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 2.66Ghz 1333Mhz
Motherboard: Giga-byte GA-P35C-DS3R
RAM: Kingston 2x2GB (forget speed not slowest not fastest)
HDD: 2x320GB Seagate SATA2 in Raid 0
Optical Drive: Sony Blu-ray writer 4x
Video: Asus EN9600GT-HTDI-512 GF9600GT, 512MB, DDR3, PCIE2.0 ,HDTV, 2xDVI-I, HDMI, HDCP
Audio: Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3
AVR: Onkyo 605
LCD TV: Sony KDL46X3100 X Series 46"

These are the versions of the driver and software that i installed.
PCI-HDAV-081003-8.17.51_XP3264-RC-01_.rar
TMT_ASUS_GM__V2.1.13.122_20081003.rar

First thing i will say is this is the best sound i have heard come from the pc yet for movies, no other solution currently offers the features on this card that are working so at least give ASUS that much. Keep in mind that this software is still in beta so to the people who purchased the card knowing this, no one twisted your arm into buying a product that was still in beta testing so be patient they will get it right.

The most disapointing part of this card for me is splendid and what it does to the picture. Even with it off i think it is worse than when i didnt have the card installed. Is it still doing something to the picture even with splendid turned off?? I have also like others noticed some jittery playback hopefully this will be fixed.

Just to clarify when my AVR is displaying "Multichannel" is this a downsampled bitstream?

Also has anyone else had problems with Top Gun, when i choose to play movie in TMT it just freezes at the menu screen and wont actually start the movie, also if i try to start the movie from a scene selection it does the same thing.
post #1507 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by nephster View Post

Well, you don't want DTS Interactive set to on, unless you want the card to make *everything* DTS. Hmmm, isn't the Xonar showing up as a playback device in Vista Sound? You would configure DD/DTS passthrough there - Properties>Supported Formats, are the DD/DTS formats ticked to passthrough? Under Configure in the same spot are you set to 7.1 (or whatever)? Also tick Exclusive Mode.

Ah, thanks. The problem was that the default playback device was "Speakers". When I changed it to "Digital Output", all was well. Could have sworn I had already made that change, but apparently not.
post #1508 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by crizz11 View Post

First thing i will say is this is the best sound i have heard come from the pc yet for movies, no other solution currently offers the features on this card that are working so at least give ASUS that much.

There are plenty of significantly cheaper alternatives that actually work in both XP and Vista, and I'd challenge you to hear any difference between 16/48 and bitstream.
post #1509 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

There are plenty of significantly cheaper alternatives that actually work in both XP and Vista, and I'd challenge you to hear any difference between 16/48 and bitstream.

Surely there is a difference with a lossless audio track like DTS-HD Master Audio. I watched "Rising Sun" last night which has a DTS-HD track and im sure in that board room scene near the beginning you are hearing more than on a lossy audio track. The scene has two guys whispering to each other at the board room table and im sure i've never heard it that clear before. Also with Rocky that has a DTS-HD track certain scenes where he is in the gym you can pick up the sounds of skipping ropes hitting the floor in the background im sure i have never heard it this clearly due to it being compressed out in a lossy audio track.
post #1510 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by crizz11 View Post

Surely there is a difference with a lossless audio track like DTS-HD Master Audio. I watched "Rising Sun" last night which has a DTS-HD track and im sure in that board room scene near the beginning you are hearing more than on a lossy audio track. The scene has two guys whispering to each other at the board room table and im sure i've never heard it that clear before. Also with Rocky that has a DTS-HD track certain scenes where he is in the gym you can pick up the sounds of skipping ropes hitting the floor in the background im sure i have never heard it this clearly due to it being compressed out in a lossy audio track.


Yeah he means a lossless track (most of which are 16/48 on the disc) that is above 16/48 downsampled to 16/48 then ouput either in analog or LPCM is nearly indistiguishable from the native 24/96 audio.

You can browse the internet and find any number of audio clips where they've started with a 24/96 recording and resampled it downward for comparision (the NIN album "the slip" is an option). In my testing I can't tell the difference between 24/96 and 16/44.1. Really everyone who has an spdif should run a quick test to see if they can hear the difference before dropping $200+ on a card when a $50 video card will give you 16/48.
post #1511 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by crizz11 View Post

Surely there is a difference with a lossless audio track like DTS-HD Master Audio. I watched "Rising Sun" last night which has a DTS-HD track and im sure in that board room scene near the beginning you are hearing more than on a lossy audio track. The scene has two guys whispering to each other at the board room table and im sure i've never heard it that clear before. Also with Rocky that has a DTS-HD track certain scenes where he is in the gym you can pick up the sounds of skipping ropes hitting the floor in the background im sure i have never heard it this clearly due to it being compressed out in a lossy audio track.

That's not the point.

There are currently many cheap options on the market that will play the *lossless* HD audio tracks over HDMI. The only issue is the software players bitstrip them down to 16/48. However most tracks are mastered at that, so you can't hear a difference.

LPCM = bitstream, assuming no bitstripping. And it's imperceptably different with the minor bitstripping.

For $50 for one of these existing, workable solutions with workable 24p and no video "enhancements", it's a no brainer, IMO, that this ASUS card is pointless in comparison, given the lack of working functionality and major issues.

(See my sig for more details.)
post #1512 of 9526
post #1513 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

For $50 for one of these existing, workable solutions with workable 24p and no video "enhancements", it's a no brainer, IMO, that this ASUS card is pointless in comparison, given the lack of working functionality and major issues.

(See my sig for more details.)

That's fair enough mate, and you're clearly far more an audio expert than I am, but do you see this card as pointless even if the issues are fixed? That's kind of the impression I'm getting.
post #1514 of 9526
Oh, forgot to say, those of you suffering from brightness issues, have you made sure the "photo" mode Splendid is off? It says this effects the desktop image and, well, it does!
post #1515 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by nephster View Post

That's fair enough mate, and you're clearly far more an audio expert than I am, but do you see this card as pointless even if the issues are fixed? That's kind of the impression I'm getting.

Not at all. I was first in line to get this card whenever it was originally going to be released in the U.S. But it's a disaster now, and I won't touch it until there's positive confirmation that bitstream works, 24p works, and video can be passed through.

I just don't see the massive number of issues ever being fixed, as I think at least some of them are hardware related (like the 24p issue).
post #1516 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

That's not the point.

There are currently many cheap options on the market that will play the *lossless* HD audio tracks over HDMI. The only issue is the software players bitstrip them down to 16/48. However most tracks are mastered at that, so you can't hear a difference.

LPCM = bitstream, assuming no bitstripping. And it's imperceptably different with the minor bitstripping.

For $50 for one of these existing, workable solutions with workable 24p and no video "enhancements", it's a no brainer, IMO, that this ASUS card is pointless in comparison, given the lack of working functionality and major issues.

(See my sig for more details.)

Ok so when i had spdif going from motherboard to Asus EN9600GT video card and then hdmi to my receiver, my receiver never displayed DTS-HD Master, or multichannel, what was i getting with this setup? btw thanks for your responses im appreciating the education.
post #1517 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by crizz11 View Post

Ok so when i had spdif going from motherboard to Asus EN9600GT video card and then hdmi to my receiver, my receiver never displayed DTS-HD Master, or multichannel, what was i getting with this setup? btw thanks for your responses im appreciating the education.

No the 9600gt won't cut it you need full LPCM 8 channel. ATI 4xx0 series cards, nforce 8200/8300, nforce 9300/9400, intel G35/G45 are the only solutions that previously did full 8 channel LPCM.

Those products sound damn near identical to the Xonar, at least in my limited testing with my equipment (since I don't have a xonar, but I do have 24/96 and 16/48 to test back to back with).

But spdif and it's compressed formats don't cut it.
post #1518 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodgexander View Post

http://whathifi.com/Review/True-Colo...es-Copperhead/

http://whathifi.com/Review/QED-HDMI-P/

Hmmh...cnet or an audiovisual magazine...

A company that lives and dies by it's high end advertisers, or a company what live without that $5000 add placement.

Every argument I've ever heard against high price digital cables makes perfect sense.

I've never seen any sort of test other than subjective for people arguing for varying quality in digital cables. I have heard arguments about jitter that make some sense, but that has far more to do with the source electronics. Also HDMI is buffered (how do you think they do lip sync?) so any jitter is internal to you AV reciever.
post #1519 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

A company that lives and dies by it's high end advertisers, or a company what live without that $5000 add placement.

Every argument I've ever heard against high price digital cables makes perfect sense.

I've never seen any sort of test other than subjective for people arguing for varying quality in digital cables. I have heard arguments about jitter that make some sense, but that has far more to do with the source electronics. Also HDMI is buffered (how do you think they do lip sync?) so any jitter is internal to you AV reciever.

Please stay on topic...
post #1520 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by nephster View Post

I certainly take your point. I guess the question is, should someone invest in this card *when* (or for the pessimist, if) this card does all that it promised to do, or another option.

As it stands, it would make very little sense to purchase it *now*, especially running Vista. But for most people, it isn't even an option to do so anyway.

Is it worth holding off for a month before buying something else to see if Asus get it sorted? Probably. Or else you wouldn't be reading the thread, eh?

I'm in another boat entirely, in that I own the card, and am legitimately aggrieved it doesn't do what it says on the box. But if people don't own it, I don't see what their problem is. Asus haven't mucked around with *you*. There are enough of us who do (or did!) own it to do all the bitching required

If it ever does the advertised things, I will get it. Either this one or the potential nono-expandable one (I have no need for the analog outs).
post #1521 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodgexander View Post

In addition to this, i do not beleive, even with digital, the ATI Card will do a better job with LPCM, especially since you will be comparing 16bit 48khz audio to that of what the Xonar is capable of 192khz 24 bit.

192 Khz 24 Bit is not part of the Blu-ray spec. 96 Khz 24 Bit is the highest it goes. I have compared 96 Khz 24 Bit to 48 Khz 16 Bit and I can't tell the difference.
post #1522 of 9526
Try comparing a DTS 96/24 track compared to a 48hkz/16bit. You will see a difference for sure. Besides, im not just talking about blu ray here. The HDMI Spec itself does support 192khz
post #1523 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodgexander View Post

Try comparing a DTS 96/24 track compared to a 48hkz/16bit. You will see a difference for sure. Besides, im not just talking about blu ray here. The HDMI Spec itself does support 192khz

That might be your problems, I'm *listening* for a difference. You might *see* a difference with the lights on your pre-pro, but who cares.

And I guarantee you won't *hear* any difference on the bitstripped 16/48 LPCM version of a bitstreamed 24/96 version.
post #1524 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodgexander View Post

Try comparing a DTS 96/24 track compared to a 48hkz/16bit. You will see a difference for sure. Besides, im not just talking about blu ray here. The HDMI Spec itself does support 192khz

But if the ONLY thing that Blu Ray REQUIRES is 96/24, then WHO CARES about the extensible areas that aren't usable by that format? 192kHz is like the autobon and Bluray is like a M-class BMW. The road can handle 200+MPH speeds but while the BMW is at the top of it's class (like Blu Ray), it's maximum speed is still only 180MPH. Like Blu Ray, it can't take advantage of those other 20MPH (nor the 2x bandwidth of HDMI) so why would that "wasted space" be of ANY value in a Blu Ray discussion forum?
post #1525 of 9526
I prefered it when everyone was slagging off the product and calling it 'junk'... at least that was on topic
post #1526 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndabunka View Post

But if the ONLY thing that Blu Ray REQUIRES is 96/24, then WHO CARES about the extensible areas that aren't usable by that format? 192kHz is like the autobon and Bluray is like a M-class BMW. The road can handle 200+MPH speeds but while the BMW is at the top of it's class (like Blu Ray), it's maximum speed is still only 180MPH. Like Blu Ray, it can't take advantage of those other 20MPH (nor the 2x bandwidth of HDMI) so why would that "wasted space" be of ANY value in a Blu Ray discussion forum?

Well this is technically just the Asus Xonar thread, so the point may be relevant.

Many people who listen to 24/96 can't tell the difference between 24/96 and 16/48. Others swear it's a night and day difference.

We all have different ears and hearing capabilities and different level of gear. I for one cannot hear well enough to tell the difference between an $80 HDMI cable and a $10 HDMI cable, nor can I tell the difference between a 24/96 sound files and a 16/48 sound file.

I think all of this is very relevant to the this sound card because for the cost of a SA unit you get just the audio out that is currently only mostly functional, but only in XP.

Anyone who truly cares about sound quality for their BD should've bought an SA long ago.
post #1527 of 9526
Originally Posted by Dodgexander View Post
For instance, why would their be premium HDMI cables available if they did not make a difference?



I'm a retired CBS engineer.NYC.
The only time we ever purchased a cable over $10.00 was , if the run in feet was going to exceed 100 feet.
HDMI is a digital signal Not analog.
Anolog can pickup strays Acting like an antenna. But" not digital.
The only item that effects it is Resistance.Both the input side & the output will not respond to any interference of any kind Thats what makes it so great.
The longer the wire ,the greater the resistance,the thicker the conductor must be.
Think of your motherboard that does the IRQ processing at the speed of light, Without crashing into each other.
All digital.
post #1528 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodgexander View Post

Try comparing a DTS 96/24 track compared to a 48hkz/16bit. You will see a difference for sure. Besides, im not just talking about blu ray here. The HDMI Spec itself does support 192khz

You might be right about it supporting a 7.1 Channel DTS-HD-MA 192 Khz 24 Bit track. However, I saw something that said it will not support a DD TrueHD track over 96 Khz. I just can not locate it at the moment.

Currently(and for the foreseeable future) there are no discs with 7.1 Channel 192 Khz tracks.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=760714
post #1529 of 9526
Yesterday morning I woke up, checked the asus site for new drivers..nothing, so i decided to screw vista i want DTS:MA so I formatted and installed xp. I went to grab the ASUS cd for the drivers and decided to get the ones off the site as they'd be the most up to date (this is about an hour later)....and what do you know.... FRIGGIN VISTA DRIVERS WITH BITSTREAMING OF EVERYTHING BUT TRUEHD!!!!!!! What a bunch of basterds!
I guess I'm the first to have checked and found them?
post #1530 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilstuie82 View Post

Yesterday morning I woke up, checked the asus site for new drivers..nothing, so i decided to screw vista i want DTS:MA so I formatted and installed xp. I went to grab the ASUS cd for the drivers and decided to get the ones off the site as they'd be the most up to date (this is about an hour later)....and what do you know.... FRIGGIN VISTA DRIVERS WITH BITSTREAMING OF EVERYTHING BUT TRUEHD!!!!!!! What a bunch of basterds!
I guess I'm the first to have checked and found them?

Huh ? Where ?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Home Theater Computers
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Home Theater Computers › *Official* Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 thread