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*Official* Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 thread - Page 75

post #2221 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emig5m View Post

There's just no consistency here is there? ASUS TMT 123 plays everything for me, BD/HD-DVD each from both, folders or .iso with XP Sp3.

123 off site or came off disk?

Thanks
post #2222 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davinleeds View Post

123 off site or came off disk?

Thanks

Off the Asus site. I don't even think I ever installed the version from the disc hence the reason I asked at one point about where to get the key for the downloaded version (the older TMT at Asus didn't ask for a key). They're suppose to be the same version but the file sizes are different from the CD version to the downloaded version.
post #2223 of 9526
Yeah, I got more off the disk, hense, HDDVD playback capability in 122?, but, like you, post 123 plays all. At least one thing is working, DTS HD MSTR and I'll move on to the TMT playback issue. 123 is 44.1 rar and 44.9 unzipped.
post #2224 of 9526
I'm very confused :S
I meant the image in your previous post, it doesn't come up on my work comp.
If the DTS master is aimed at me, I've already had it working perfectly on xp bitstreaming.
I'm on Vista now so no little red lights on the AVR light up for me at all now
But with xp it worked fine through TMT hdmi etc
Only issues i had was with the "select hdmi option on your soundcard settings" popping up at the begininng sometimes/
post #2225 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilstuie82 View Post

I'm very confused :S
I meant the image in your previous post, it doesn't come up on my work comp.
If the DTS master is aimed at me, I've already had it working perfectly on xp bitstreaming.
I'm on Vista now so no little red lights on the AVR light up for me at all now
But with xp it worked fine through TMT hdmi etc
Only issues i had was with the "select hdmi option on your soundcard settings" popping up at the begininng sometimes/

Davinleeds talks about XP ('Install the all enclusive XONAR driver 1751 FOR XP and let it ride'). In Vista you can only send PCM to your amp. I hope the annouced drivers in December allow bitstreaming in Vista
post #2226 of 9526
I tried to read part of the post but so many information I got lost, so is there a way to get 24fps to work in XP?
post #2227 of 9526
OK guys, perhaps us owners should state what we have, and have got working?

Me:
XPSP3, TMT .123, XP driver RC1, Nvidia 8600GT
24p passthrough: no
Xonar as display device: no
HD-DVD playback: yes
Blu-Ray playback: yes
DTS MA bitstream: yes
Legacy DD/DTS bitstream: yes
Splendid brightness: fixed

Have I left anything out?
post #2228 of 9526
Me:
Vista 64 SP1, TMT .122 and drivers from Xonar CD.
24p passthrough: don't have 24p display
Xonar as display device: yes
HD-DVD playback: yes
Blu-Ray playback: yes
DTS MA bitstream: no (PCM)
Legacy DD/DTS bitstream: no (PCM)
Splendid brightness: fixed with latest Splendid HD patch
post #2229 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rathbone View Post

Xonar as display device: yes

What does this mean?

- Rich
post #2230 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

What does this mean?

- Rich

Most of us are getting our amps show up as the display device in the GPU control panel. Evilstuie and Rathbone get the Xonar show up.
post #2231 of 9526
XPSP3, TMT .123, XP driver RC1, ATI 4850 with DVI to HDMI adapter going to Asus card, HDMI output goes to Yamaha RX-V663 receiver and then on to Sony rear-pro LCD TV
1080i to Asus card
Xonar as display device: Yes(I think)
HD-DVD playback: No(Tried Discs and .iso files) It just hangs with a blank TMT screen. HD-DVD works in PDVD though.
Blu-Ray playback: Yes(Discs, .isos) Did not try folders
Dolby True-HD bit-streaming: No(Not available for anyone yet)
Dolby True-HD decoding properly: No(TMT decodes DD-TrueHD to 7 channel stereo). True-HD works in PDVD with the Asus card.
DTS MA bitstream: Yes with HDMI option in TMT
Legacy DD/DTS bitstream: Yes for Blu-rays with HDMI option enabled in TMT. For DVDs I get PCM with HDMI option and DD/DTS bitstream with Toslink/optical option
Splendid brightness: Fixed with latest Splendid HD patch
Black Crush issue?: Resolved by using the ATI DVI to HDMI adapter inbetween my ATI 4850 and the Asus card. This allows me to choose 4:4:4 limited color output in the CCC pixel format option. Now I can see the black bars in the DVE blu-ray and DVD pluge test pattern.
post #2232 of 9526
Vista 64 SP1, TMT .123 and drivers from ASUS homepage. SLI 2x nVidia 8800GTX latest drivers.
24p passthrough: no
Xonar as display device: yes
HD-DVD playback: yes
Blu-Ray playback: yes
DTS MA bitstream: no (PCM)
Legacy DD/DTS bitstream: yes
Splendid brightness: fixed with latest Splendid HD patch

Kamil
post #2233 of 9526
@evilstuie82, Have you tested 24p through XP yet?
post #2234 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rathbone View Post

Me:
Vista 64 SP1, TMT .122 and drivers from Xonar CD.
24p passthrough: don't have 24p display
Xonar as display device: yes
HD-DVD playback: yes
Blu-Ray playback: yes
DTS MA bitstream: no (PCM)
Legacy DD/DTS bitstream: no (PCM)
Splendid brightness: fixed with latest Splendid HD patch

Does PCM working imply that analog out works at full bitdepth and rate? Is not PCM simply the uncompressed bits that are DAC'd to analog?

It is good to see a Vista x64 user trying this.
post #2235 of 9526
It sure sounds like alot of headaches to get this not-ready-for-release piece of hardware to do what it is supposed to do. I really wanted to hear what a full-resolution BD movie sounded like, so I followed the directions in this thread.

At first it looked daunting. But I left out the recompressing process (I want the full 1080p resolution) and the subtitles. After getting it to work once, I realize that it is not really that big of deal to do. And it does not take any more time than ripping a BD to hard drive, as it can be done directly from BD using AnyDVDHD.

While I understand, and even agree with, the desire to just drop in a BD and get full resolution audio, if you rip your BD to a storage server anyway this certainly warrants a closer look.

Iron Man in 48 KHz/24-bit on my Xonar D2X analog to amp was simply awesome! Yes, I can tell the difference.

Edit: My setup is analog, but this is not meant to imply that is a requirement. Once the audio DRM and associated PAP requirement has been removed one may output the audio any way they see fit, including HDMI.
post #2236 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post

Iron Man in 48 KHz/24-bit on my Xonar D2X analog to amp was simply awesome! Yes, I can tell the difference.

The difference between 48 Khz 16 Bit and 48 Khz 24 Bit is less than the difference between 48 Khz 24 bit analog vs. 48 Khz 24 bit digital. There are just too many factors that affect analog output from a computer.
post #2237 of 9526
Me:
Software: WinXP SP3, TMT 2.1.13.123, Xonar driver 5.12.8.1751, Splendid Agent 3.0.2.6, Splendid Firmware 1.25AV, Forceware 178.13
Hardware: Nvidia GeForce 8600 GTS, Denon 4308, Panasonic PT-AX100
24p passthrough: no - all refresh rates other than 60 Hz do not work (i.e. 24 Hz and 50 Hz)
Xonar as display device: no - AVR shows up
HD-DVD playback: n/a
Blu-Ray playback: yes
DTS MA bitstream: yes
DD/DTS bitstream: partially - when selecting HDMI output there's bitstreaming for Blu-Ray discs but there is no bitstreaming for DVDs (decoded PCM instead). Using S/PDIF as output, then DD/DTS bitstreaming through the HDMI link works for both DVDs and BDs
Splendid brightness: fixed
Dolby TruHD bitstream: no - still waiting for this to be implemented...
DirectSound support: partially - still BSODs with full hardware acceleration
post #2238 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post

Does PCM working imply that analog out works at full bitdepth and rate? Is not PCM simply the uncompressed bits that are DAC'd to analog?

It is good to see a Vista x64 user trying this.


No I don#t have the Xonar Deluxe with analog addon board. I set Splendid HD to 5.1 and get PCM 5.1 over HDMI to my Onkyo 605.
post #2239 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

The difference between 48 Khz 16 Bit and 48 Khz 24 Bit is less than the difference between 48 Khz 24 bit analog vs. 48 Khz 24 bit digital. There are just too many factors that affect analog output from a computer.

Baloney.

What do you think my Xonar D2X is being fed? Sausage? I thought it had the same digital bits coming in that your cheap Onkyo receiver gets.

You guys with your HDMI receivers have this illusion that setup is somehow superior to a good analog sound card and a high-quality amplifier. You could not be more wrong. The only differences are in the quality of the design. Neither configuration has an advantage based on DACs in the receiver or DACs on the soundcard.

And for the record the difference I heard was with the exact same hardware setup (Xonar D2X analog to ADCOM GFA 5500), 48/16 vs 48/24.
post #2240 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rathbone View Post

No I don#t have the Xonar Deluxe with analog addon board. I set Splendid HD to 5.1 and get PCM 5.1 over HDMI to my Onkyo 605.

Understood. But if you did have the analog card?
post #2241 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post

Baloney.

What do you think my Xonar D2X is being fed? Sausage? I thought it had the same digital bits coming in that your cheap Onkyo receiver gets.

You guys with your HDMI receivers have this illusion that setup is somehow superior to a good analog sound card and a high-quality amplifier. You could not be more wrong. The only differences are in the quality of the design. Neither configuration has an advantage based on DACs in the receiver or DACs on the soundcard.

And for the record the difference I heard was with the exact same hardware setup (Xonar D2X analog to ADCOM GFA 5500), 48/16 vs 48/24.

No I don’t have the “Cheap” Onkyo receiver. Instead I have the “Slightly Less Cheap” Yamaha RX-V663 receiver. And yes I do agree with you that a good sound card can do the decoding just as well as any receiver. However, there still are a number of factors that makes analog output from a computer very difficult to control. Here are a few that I can think of. You might have all of these factors controlled but that is not usually the case.

1. The inherit nature of analog transmissions means that your cables and connectors must be of high quality and well shielded materials. I can only assume that you have done this.

2. You can only assume that the operating system has done nothing to alter the sound. There is no way to really determine that the audio has gone untouched from the disc/file through the computer to amp. There is no way to determine this for digital files either but at least I can see what Khz came out of the computer and into my receiver. With analog connections you will not even see that information.

3. In most receivers you loose all Bass management and Pro Logic type processing when using analog connections. All of the Yamaha receivers that I have used also require a 10 DB Bass boost(in the computer) in order to properly calibrate the analog inputs. Any alterations that you have to perform on the audio only exacerbate the likelihood that the audio into your receiver will not be identical to what is on the disc.

If you bitstream the audio you don’t have to worry about any of these problems. It is a pure lossless digital transaction that is bit for bit identical to what was recorded on the disc. Proper Analog audio is possible. However, it is much more difficult than proper digitally bitstreamed audio.

Let us know how you overcame the limitations above.
post #2242 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post

Iron Man in 48 KHz/24-bit on my Xonar D2X analog to amp was simply awesome! Yes, I can tell the difference.

Edit: My setup is analog, but this is not meant to imply that is a requirement. Once the audio DRM and associated PAP requirement has been removed one may output the audio any way they see fit, including HDMI.

The real way to test this is to compare a bit-streamed 24 Bit DTS-MA track to the same 24 Bit DTS-MA track downsampled to 16 Bit and output as PCM on the exact same system with the exact same software and setup. If there is a real discernable difference there then investing in non-downsampling hardware is worth it.

I will test this scenario along with a few others tonight.
post #2243 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

The real way to test this is to compare a bit-streamed 24 Bit DTS-MA track to the same 24 Bit DTS-MA track downsampled to 16 Bit and output as PCM on the exact same system with the exact same software and setup. If there is a real discernable difference there then investing in non-downsampling hardware is worth it.

I will test this scenario along with a few others tonight.

Don't forget to make sure there is absolutely no difference in levels... even the slightest difference will make one source seem 'better' than the other and is almost certainly the root of many test outcomes that appear to show a difference.

And, of course, if you do perform this test and conclude that there is no discernible difference then you should fully expect to be tarred and feathered when you announce this finding...
post #2244 of 9526
Quote:


No I don’t have the “Cheap” Onkyo receiver. Instead I have the “Slightly Less Cheap” Yamaha RX-V663 receiver. And yes I do agree with you that a good sound card can do the decoding just as well as any receiver. However, there still are a number of factors that makes analog output from a computer very difficult to control. Here are a few that I can think of. You might have all of these factors controlled but that is not usually the case.

1. The inherit nature of analog transmissions means that your cables and connectors must be of high quality and well shielded materials. I can only assume that you have done this.

2. You can only assume that the operating system has done nothing to alter the sound. There is no way to really determine that the audio has gone untouched from the disc/file through the computer to amp. There is no way to determine this for digital files either but at least I can see what Khz came out of the computer and into my receiver. With analog connections you will not even see that information.

3. In most receivers you loose all Bass management and Pro Logic type processing when using analog connections. All of the Yamaha receivers that I have used also require a 10 DB Bass boost(in the computer) in order to properly calibrate the analog inputs. Any alterations that you have to perform on the audio only exacerbate the likelihood that the audio into your receiver will not be identical to what is on the disc.

If you bitstream the audio you don’t have to worry about any of these problems. It is a pure lossless digital transaction that is bit for bit identical to what was recorded on the disc. Proper Analog audio is possible. However, it is much more difficult than proper digitally bitstreamed audio.

Let us know how you overcame the limitations above.

I WAS going to respond to this point-by-point but decided not to waste my time... I was tempted because the tone behind the cable comment was irritating (no pun intended)... as one who switched from an analog set-up to a receiver based HDMI setup, I have to say that quality of the sound was NOT any part of the decision, but rather I opted for convenience.... I was using a mod'd X-Fi ElitePro feeding 3 Carver poweramps. The set-up was great because the X-Fi would accept spdif inputs and decode the DD bitstreams from my cable boxes and DVHS recorder. Alas HDDVD/BluRAY came along and neccesitated Vista and HDMI. Creative abandoned the spdif input decoding in Vista, so a decent Receiver was my only option. But I use it only as a pre-pro and it feeds my mighty Carvers
post #2245 of 9526
Hey all. Sorry for the delay, work sucks. Time here is 8am friday, 24 hours time I will have XPSP3 running with xonar and trial 24p settings.
I'll post the guide and advanced settings for 24p passthru with the xonar tonight (10hrs) and post any necessary changes for xp tomorrow morning.
PS. whats the guy on about with analogue BD rips @48khz/24bit?
The whole point of this card is digital hdmi with HD lossless codecs not compressed 2nd rate old-gen analogue goo.
:P
post #2246 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimwhite View Post

I WAS going to respond to this point-by-point but decided not to waste my time... I was tempted because the tone behind the cable comment was irritating (no pun intended)... as one who switched from an analog set-up to a receiver based HDMI setup, I have to say that quality of the sound was NOT any part of the decision, but rather I opted for convenience.... I was using a mod'd X-Fi ElitePro feeding 3 Carver poweramps. The set-up was great because the X-Fi would accept spdif inputs and decode the DD bitstreams from my cable boxes and DVHS recorder. Alas HDDVD/BluRAY came along and neccesitated Vista and HDMI. Creative abandoned the spdif input decoding in Vista, so a decent Receiver was my only option. But I use it only as a pre-pro and it feeds my mighty Carvers

Haha wow that response by mpgxvcd is pretty bad. I hope other people reading his response take it with *bucket* of salt. Anyway i won't respond to that either as it is just a waste of time.

Anyway hey jimwhite how's it going? I was the guy who tried to snag the x-fi elite from you since mine got fried haha remember me? Just got a quick question on how the analog sound quality compares between the modded x-fi and your receiver? Who wins?
post #2247 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimwhite View Post

I WAS going to respond to this point-by-point but decided not to waste my time... I was tempted because the tone behind the cable comment was irritating (no pun intended)... as one who switched from an analog set-up to a receiver based HDMI setup, I have to say that quality of the sound was NOT any part of the decision, but rather I opted for convenience.... I was using a mod'd X-Fi ElitePro feeding 3 Carver poweramps. The set-up was great because the X-Fi would accept spdif inputs and decode the DD bitstreams from my cable boxes and DVHS recorder. Alas HDDVD/BluRAY came along and neccesitated Vista and HDMI. Creative abandoned the spdif input decoding in Vista, so a decent Receiver was my only option. But I use it only as a pre-pro and it feeds my mighty Carvers

I did not mean the cable comment to be irritating. I was just suggesting that unshielded low quality cables COULD make a difference in audio quality with analog outputs. Do you disagree? They could also make a difference with digital signals in an HDMI cable. Although it would be easier to determine if you have interference with the HDMI cable.

So what HDMI card are you using now? Do you get bit streamed DTS-MA currently?

Care to lend me your Carvers some time? How sweet they must be!
post #2248 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilstuie82 View Post

PS. whats the guy on about with analogue BD rips @48khz/24bit? The whole point of this card is digital hdmi with HD lossless codecs not compressed 2nd rate old-gen analogue goo.
:P

Oh boy, another 'HDMI is the best because it is digital' lemming

You do realize that TrueHD and DTS-MA are lossless? And when these are sent out of the soundcard analog they are still lossless, not compressed? You know what happens in your receiver? 'analogue goo'.

Perhaps to you, the whole point is HDMI. To the wider audience, the point is full-bitrate lossless audio, whether analog or digital is somewhat less important than full-bitrate. Do you notice even the HDAV has an analog daughter card? What do you think that is for?

I just posted the technique for playing full-bitrate audio without the Xonar HDAV because the whole point of this thread is about getting hi-def audio out of BD. The HDAV is not the only way to do it, a slightly more-complex BD ripping technique does it also. And the HDAV is not working perfectly just yet.
post #2249 of 9526
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post

Oh boy, another 'HDMI is the best because it is digital' lemming

You do realize that TrueHD and DTS-MA are lossless? And when these are sent out of the soundcard analog they are still lossless, not compressed? You know what happens in your receiver? 'analogue goo'.

Perhaps to you, the whole point is HDMI. To the wider audience, the point is full-bitrate lossless audio, whether analog or digital is somewhat less important than full-bitrate. Do you notice even the HDAV has an analog daughter card? What do you think that is for?

I just posted the technique for playing full-bitrate audio without the Xonar HDAV because the whole point of this thread is about getting hi-def audio out of BD. The HDAV is not the only way to do it, a slightly more-complex BD ripping technique does it also. And the HDAV is not working perfectly just yet.

There is way more to it than this. I recently moved from a using an X-fi and power amps to a Yamaha 663 and the same power amps. There is a huge difference, and its not all in the "analog goo". PC sound card bass management is weak, and the room correction/compensation is a joke compared to what even a cheapo AVR or pre/pro can do. Even if you use the analog outs to a pre/pro, you still are missing most of the processing available unless you reconvert to digital, and back to analog.

The you have the operating system mangling the sound and the poor digital volume control. You have much less control over what a PC is doing to the sound. The fact of the matter is that you have no idea what is coming out of your analog outs. You have no guarantee that it is full resolution or not mangled by some piece of software in the chain.

I've used the 5.1 analog connections on my sound card for years, but not any more. I can output high def audio over my analog outs from my BD's, but I much prefer the high bitrate DD/DTS optical output over the analog for added processing it allows me to do, as well as the sound quality. I didn't think it mattered until I tried it. I'd obviously like bit streaming of the HD codecs to work as well.
post #2250 of 9526
My Mistake, I haven't looked into BD ripping yet, but how exactly does it rip the data?
Are you talking about cloning the discs onto the hard drive or "ripping" them which is re-encoding them? I thought you meant the latter meaning you were compressing the audio/video and i'm not aware of a lossless video/audio compression for Blurays.
As i said before though I have not researched ripping blurays yet.
Also I'm a digital lemming because I was under the assumption that digital was the only way to bitstream audio to an AVR to decode instead of letting the semi-working xonar card to decode. If I'd have known analogue outputs could transmit bit stream i would have definately waited to get the deluxe version.
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