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HTPC - "Intel VS AMD" > E8400,G45,4850e,790GX...

post #1 of 28
9/10/08 at 7:17am
Thread Starter 
I have already tried searching the forums, but couldn't find any answer to my question... So here we go...

After some research the last couple of days, i ended of with theese solutions:

1:
Intel E8400 Processor (3ghz)
Intel G45 Chipset motherboard (Intel GMA X4500HD onboard)

2:
AMD 4850e (2.5ghz)
AMD 790gx chipset motherbaord (ATI Radeon HD 3300 onbaord)

The following will meet my requirements:
Possible to run the computer 24/7 = Therefore a low power consumption is important... But i can't find any webpage of forum site who compares the 2 solutions..

The main purpose of the HTPC, is Bluray and HD video playback. And i want the newest Mkv files to be suported too (Every standard should be viewable in 1080p - With small CPU load)

I have only chosen one AMD CPU to compete with the Intel, beacuse of what i have read > ALL AMD CPU's uses a LOT of power, and the 4850e should be pretty good in saving power...

I think it could be nice to have the oppertunity to play games on my HTPC (I now it's not possible to play ALL the new games in the highest resolution - But it would be fine at least to be able to play some games in ex. 1024x768)
> But again playing is not the main purpose of the HTPC

I want the computer to the "future-proof" (I don't wan't to buy a new computer within the next 2 years)
Therefore i think (Not quite sure yet) that the Intel solution maybe is more "future-proof" than the AMD solution? But i don't now if i can play on the computer!? (X4500D Sucks, compared to the ATI HD 3300!)

I would deffently prefer the AMD solution, mainly beacuse of the onboard Graphic card, but is it "future-proof", if i stick with the 4850e CPU? (The new Phenon etc uses way to much power in a HTPC)

What is your opinion?

PS: Sorry the bad english
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post #2 of 28
9/10/08 at 8:22am
For gaming without a discrete graphics card, then the Intel is not an option. Quite plainly it sucks for gaming.

Unless you can time travel, there's no such thing as a future-proof PC. However, unless your requirements drastically change, either solution would probably still work for you two years from now.
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post #3 of 28
9/10/08 at 8:42am
Thread Starter 
Okay... I was just thinking about the following:

The Intel E8400 i "Light-years" faster than the 4850e, right? And if the E8400 is so much faster then it would be able to compare with the AMD setup? (The E8400 have so many "horsepowers" that it will providi the graphic power on the intel setup - Where the 790fx board is proviting the graphic power instead, on the AMD setup)
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post #4 of 28
9/10/08 at 8:48am
both solutions are fairly decent for an HD plaback HTPC

however neither setup will be good for gaming, without a discrete card, period. A CPU is not going to compensate for a video card that is not meant for gaming, and neither of those 2 chipset/IGPU solutions are meant for gaming
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post #5 of 28
9/10/08 at 9:44am
Thread Starter 
Hmm... Now i'm more confused!! He!
Which will perform best in Gaming? (Im thinking 1024x768 - in most common games, not the brand new ones)
Which will perfom best in HD Playback?

Which will you recommend > And with what reason?
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post #6 of 28
9/10/08 at 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasmuskarlsen View Post

I have already tried searching the forums, but couldn't find any answer to my question... So here we go...

After some research the last couple of days, i ended of with theese solutions:

1:
Intel E8400 Processor (3ghz)
Intel G45 Chipset motherboard (Intel GMA X4500HD onboard)

2:
AMD 4850e (2.5ghz)
AMD 790gx chipset motherbaord (ATI Radeon HD 3300 onbaord)

The following will meet my requirements:
Possible to run the computer 24/7 = Therefore a low power consumption is important... But i can't find any webpage of forum site who compares the 2 solutions..

on the power saving front the amd option is the obvious choice.

Quote:


The main purpose of the HTPC, is Bluray and HD video playback. And i want the newest Mkv files to be suported too (Every standard should be viewable in 1080p - With small CPU load)

as i understand, you can't do hardware acceleration for mkv files. so you may want to consider getting the CoreAVC codec for stutter-free 1080p mkv file playing.

Quote:


I have only chosen one AMD CPU to compete with the Intel, beacuse of what i have read > ALL AMD CPU's uses a LOT of power, and the 4850e should be pretty good in saving power...

I think it could be nice to have the oppertunity to play games on my HTPC (I now it's not possible to play ALL the new games in the highest resolution - But it would be fine at least to be able to play some games in ex. 1024x768)
> But again playing is not the main purpose of the HTPC

if you are gaming on your tv and not a computer monitor, i dont think you can play at 1024x768, maybe 1280x720. if you intend to game at that resolution, you'll need a video card. i'd go with amd in this regard and pick up a hd 3470 for hybrid crossfire to increase performance. most 3470s should have passive cooling so noise won't be an issue, and the power draw should be at minimum as well.

Quote:


I want the computer to the "future-proof" (I don't wan't to buy a new computer within the next 2 years)
Therefore i think (Not quite sure yet) that the Intel solution maybe is more "future-proof" than the AMD solution? But i don't now if i can play on the computer!? (X4500D Sucks, compared to the ATI HD 3300!)

I would deffently prefer the AMD solution, mainly beacuse of the onboard Graphic card, but is it "future-proof", if i stick with the 4850e CPU? (The new Phenon etc uses way to much power in a HTPC)

What is your opinion?

PS: Sorry the bad english [/quote]

most low-power computer builds are not gonna be future-proof as far as gaming is concerned. as for video playing, it should last two years no problem. you may consider the newer phenom parts that are designed to be low power. the 9150e and 9350e i believe.

i'm running a 780g/4850e setup myself, at the time i got my build the 790gx wasn't out yet. since i dont game on mine it doesnt really matter to me.
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post #7 of 28
9/10/08 at 10:33am
forgot to ask, if you're going to run blu-ray you won't be able to get lossless audio with either setup.

as far as i know only the hd 4000 series video cards from amd can pass 7.1 lpcm audio, but there're issues on the software side as well. the 4670 and 4650 cards should be available by end of September and shoudl make very nice add-on card if you intend on gaming on the htpc.
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post #8 of 28
9/10/08 at 10:47am
Thread Starter 
Sorry, i dont now how to get this quote system to work

How does this Hybrid Crossfire works? Isn't one more GFX card going to use a lot of power??

Do you now how much more power the Intel system are gonna use?

What about the 4850e, would it be able to playback the newest video formats... (With corrct softare) ex. Mkv 1080p..?

Hmm the Phenon Processors cost just as much as the E8400.. Sure they use low power?
Hmm... Maybe I should by the Intel system instead, if they cost the same...?

Can't i just pass the sound directly to my reciever through Toslink? (Right now my setup is only 5.1, and my reciever only support DD 5.1, and DTS - Which audio output does a bluray movie have)??

What about the intel setup, doesnt it support Hybrid Crossfire?
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post #9 of 28
9/10/08 at 10:52am
Power consumption

On a par. ~55W at idle (CPU, MB, 2 x 1GB SDRAM, 1 x HDD, 1 x BD drive)

HD (progressive/interlaced) playback

On a par.

SD DVD

- G45: Excellent
- 790GX: Mediocre (you will need Phenom for better PQ).

Digital Audio over HDMI

- G45: DD, DTS, multichannel LPCM
- 790GX: DD, DTS, 2 channel LPCM

Gaming

790GX is better (because of sideport memory). 3DMark06 at 1240x1080:

- G45: 1160
- 790GX: 1544

3DMark06 may not be a good benchmark, but at least tells better or worse.

Adding a discrete card will guarantee "future proof" in gaming (expect 20W or more increase at idle). Do you really run it 24/7? Don't you use standby mode?
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post #10 of 28
9/10/08 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasmuskarlsen View Post

Sorry, i dont now how to get this quote system to work

How does this Hybrid Crossfire works? Isn't one more GFX card going to use a lot of power??

it's a technology that combines the processing power of your onboard graphics and the add-on board. from what i understand it's best with radeon 3450 or 3470.

Quote:


Do you now how much more power the Intel system are gonna use?

can't remember what the tdp rating was for the e8400, maybe 65w or higher. the 4850e is at 45w. don't about the motherboards.

Quote:


What about the 4850e, would it be able to playback the newest video formats... (With corrct softare) ex. Mkv 1080p..?

should be good with either cpu.

Quote:


Hmm the Phenon Processors cost just as much as the E8400.. Sure they use low power?
Hmm... Maybe I should by the Intel system instead, if they cost the same...?

if gaming is a concern, i'd go with the intel setup, but you'll want a video card to go with it for sure.

Quote:


Can't i just pass the sound directly to my reciever through Toslink? (Right now my setup is only 5.1, and my reciever only support DD 5.1, and DTS - Which audio output does a bluray movie have)??

you can, your BD software will downconvert the audio from lossless format to a DTS format to your receiver for output.

Quote:


What about the intel setup, doesnt it support Hybrid Crossfire?

it does not.
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post #11 of 28
9/10/08 at 11:29am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Power consumption

On a par. ~50W at idle (CPU, MB, 2 x 1GB SDRAM, 1 x HDD, 1 x BD drive)

HD (progressive/interlaced) playback

On a par.

SD DVD

G45 is excellent, 790GX is mediocre (you will need Phenom).

Audio

- G45: DD, DTS, multichannle LPCM
- 790GX: DD, DTS, 2 channel LPCM

Gaming

790GX is better (because of sideport memory). 3DMark06 at 1240x1080:

- G45: 1160
- 790GX: 1544

3DMark06 may not be a good benchmark, but at least tells better or worse.

Adding a disrete card will gurantee "future proof" in gaming (expect 20W or more increase at idle). Do you really run it 24/7? Don't you use standby mode?

Hmm sound good... What is a discrete card? And can i use this on the intel Setup?
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post #12 of 28
9/10/08 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasmuskarlsen View Post

Hmm sound good... What is a discrete card? And can i use this on the intel Setup?

I mean a PCI Express graphics card.
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post #13 of 28
9/10/08 at 11:54am
Thread Starter 
I don't get why Intel doesn't have Hybrud Crossfire technologies...
An E8400 Would be perfect in a HTPC (Pretty good in power savings and a really great perfomance) But there is no fun when i can't plugin a Hybrid Crossfire card (To save power)

An Secondary GFX (Discrete card) Will use a LOT of power, 100W in idle!? And maybe 200 in gaming!!??

And the way i understand Hybrid Crossfire.. Is that the card is mainly powered down.. But when the computer os going to need some extra power, the card will power up, and suppport the CPU. And when the task is done the card will power down and use almost 0W, right?
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post #14 of 28
9/10/08 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasmuskarlsen View Post

I don't get why Intel doesn't have Hybrud Crossfire technologies...
An E8400 Would be perfect in a HTPC (Pretty good in power savings and a really great perfomance) But there is no fun when i can't plugin a Hybrid Crossfire card (To save power)

An Secondary GFX (Discrete card) Will use a LOT of power, 100W or more?

And the way i understand Hybrid Crossfire.. Is that the card is mainly powered down.. But when the computer os going to need some extra power, the card will power up, and suppport the CPU. And when the task is done the card will power down and use almost 0W, right?

Hybrid CrossFire (AMD) or Hybrid SLI (NVIDIA) is a dual GPU solution iGPU+dGPU for better 3D performance (i=integrated, d=discrete). So iGPU and dGPU must work together, implying they must be of the same brand at least. Right now there is no Intel brand dGPU card.

A discrete card could consume 100W or more, but for your purpose (1024x768), a midrange card is enough and a typical power consumption of such a card (for example Radeon HD 4650) is ~50W at load and ~20W at idle.

Power down feature is called PowerXpress (AMD) or Hybrid Power (NVIDIA). PowerXpress is supported only in mobile. Hybrid Power is supported only with GeForce 9800 GT or higher and you will need a NVIDIA chipset mb (not every chipset supports it).

If you accept 20W more power at idle, then another solution would be:

- Intel processor (e.g. E8400)
- A decent mb (without IGP)
- Radeon HD 4650

The system satisfies all your requirements.
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post #15 of 28
9/10/08 at 12:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasmuskarlsen View Post

I don't get why Intel doesn't have Hybrud Crossfire technologies...

Probably because they don't make discrete graphics cards unlike ATI or NVIDIA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rasmuskarlsen View Post

An Secondary GFX (Discrete card) Will use a LOT of power, 100W in idle!? And maybe 200 in gaming!!??

Depends on the graphics card you choose. If you're only doing minor gaming, why get a graphics card that consumes 100W at load? HD4650 has TDP of 50W, I believe.
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post #16 of 28
9/10/08 at 12:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Hybrid CrossFire (AMD) or Hybrid SLI (NVIDIA) is a dual GPU solution iGPU+dGPU for better 3D performance (i=integrated, d=discrete). So iGPU and dGPU must work together, implying they must be of the same brand at least. Right now there is no Intel brand dGPU card.

A discrete card could consume 100W or more, but for your purpose (1024x768), a midrange card is enough and a typical power consumption of such a card (for example Radeon HD 4650) is ~50W at load and ~20W at idle.

Power down feature is called PowerXpress (AMD) or Hybrid Power (NVIDIA). PowerXpress is supported only in mobile. Hybrid Power is supported only with GeForce 9800 GT or higher and you will need a NVIDIA chipset mb (not every chipset supports it).

If you accept 20W more power at idle, then another solution would be:

- Intel processor (e.g. E8400)
- A decent mb (without IGP)
- Radeon HD 4650

The system satisfies all your requirements.

Okay i think the Hybrid Crossfire sounds a little akwart! It doesn't sound like it's the right time to focuse on hybrid crossfire..!

Allright... I was thinking about buying the Gigabyte GA-MA790GP-DS4H (With integrated Radeon HD 3300 onbaord.. And then i could just disable this later?)

But if thats true that a decent graphic card can consome 20W in idle.. Thats very good for my HTPC

Right now i'm going to by a motheboard with onboard video because i don't know right now how much i'm gonna use it for gaming.. But i just wan't to have the oppertunity to use the gaming mode (And maybe by a GFX - Who doesn't consume to much power - If you want the computer to run 24/7, its stupid to have a GFX who consumes 100W idle!)

Display... I'm planning viewing it o my 42" Plasma
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post #17 of 28
9/10/08 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

If you accept 20W more power at idle, then another solution would be:

- Intel processor (e.g. E8400)
- A decent mb (without IGP)
- Radeon HD 4650

The system satisfies all your requirements.

this is a great option that will satisfy your needs at not much more power consumption. Maybe go with a Intel P43/P45 motherboard, preferrably an energy-saving model from ASUS (look for EPU-6 engine) or Gigabyte, not sure if MSI has such features.

what kind of display are you running?
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post #18 of 28
9/10/08 at 12:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcheng122 View Post

this is a great option that will satisfy your needs at not much more power consumption. Maybe go with a Intel P43/P45 motherboard, preferrably an energy-saving model from ASUS (look for EPU-6 engine) or Gigabyte, not sure if MSI has such features.

what kind of display are you running?

See my last post
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post #19 of 28
9/10/08 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasmuskarlsen View Post

See my last post

oh, hehe, missed it. what's the native res on this plasma?
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post #20 of 28
9/10/08 at 12:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcheng122 View Post

oh, hehe, missed it. what's the native res on this plasma?

I can only run 1024x768... But its HD ready, and supports 1080P...
Panasonic PX80.. Why?
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post #21 of 28
9/10/08 at 1:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasmuskarlsen View Post

I can only run 1024x768... But its HD ready, and supports 1080P...
Panasonic PX80.. Why?

shouldnt only be able to run at 1024x768 then, should be able to run at the native resolution of the display, which for a 1080p tv should be 1920x1080@60Hz. reason i ask is b/c for the best image quality you should run at the native resolution of your display. and for a 1080p display it takes a decent video card to run games smoothly.

1024x768 on a widescreen 1080p plasma i would think will look terrible and distorted.
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post #22 of 28
9/10/08 at 1:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcheng122 View Post

shouldnt only be able to run at 1024x768 then, should be able to run at the native resolution of the display, which for a 1080p tv should be 1920x1080@60Hz. reason i ask is b/c for the best image quality you should run at the native resolution of your display. and for a 1080p display it takes a decent video card to run games smoothly.

1024x768 on a widescreen 1080p plasma i would think will look terrible and distorted.

It's true... I Dont now why. But I have the PX version which is 1024x768 1080p
And you could also have bought the 1920x1080 (PZ version) But that version did cost more (If you measure in $, it's 800$ more!) But the PX version should have a damm good upscaler... So you shouldt could tell the diference from 6feet away!

i have read something about 11xx X 9xx, maybe fit better... Bu actually i dont now, i haven't tried connected a computer yet.. Thats why i want to sort this out, about which computer to buy
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post #23 of 28
9/10/08 at 1:25pm
yeah i dont quite understand how a 16x9 display would have that kind of native resolution. at that resolution tho you wont be watching 1080p material in full detail. the tv is capable of accepting 1080p signals, but not capable of displaying it in full detail, it'd downscale to the resolution of the display.

i could be wrong on this, so if someone can verify that would be great help.
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post #24 of 28
9/10/08 at 1:28pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcheng122 View Post

yeah i dont quite understand how a 16x9 display would have that kind of native resolution. at that resolution tho you wont be watching 1080p material in full detail. the tv is capable of accepting 1080p signals, but not capable of displaying it in full detail, it'd downscale to the resolution of the display.

i could be wrong on this, so if someone can verify that would be great help.

Ya i think that it's capable of displaying the full details, and there fore downscaling or something.. But on a 42" Plasma, you shouldnt could tell the difference from 6 feet away.

But still the video card have to play the 1080p smooth, no mather if the display support it at it's full or not..

OKAY! I have just found an explanation... The TV is Downscaling from 1080p > 720p... But on every "Tv-Tech-Forum" on danish sites, the experts again says that you can't tell the difference from 6 feet away... You have to be 3 or less away from the tv to tell the difference between 1080p and 720p (Only because this plasma tv, have really good colors, and the panel is good quality) - It's proberly posible to tell the difference on many cheap and low quality Plasma / LCD
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post #25 of 28
9/10/08 at 3:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasmuskarlsen View Post

Ya i think that it's capable of displaying the full details, and there fore downscaling or something.. But on a 42" Plasma, you shouldnt could tell the difference from 6 feet away.

But still the video card have to play the 1080p smooth, no mather if the display support it at it's full or not..

OKAY! I have just found an explanation... The TV is Downscaling from 1080p > 720p... But on every "Tv-Tech-Forum" on danish sites, the experts again says that you can't tell the difference from 6 feet away... You have to be 3 or less away from the tv to tell the difference between 1080p and 720p (Only because this plasma tv, have really good colors, and the panel is good quality) - It's proberly posible to tell the difference on many cheap and low quality Plasma / LCD

should be fine at 6ft yes.
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post #26 of 28
9/10/08 at 6:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcheng122 View Post

yeah i dont quite understand how a 16x9 display would have that kind of native resolution. at that resolution tho you wont be watching 1080p material in full detail.

Small plasmas, especially cheap ones, are commonly manufactured with rectangular pixels, so the aspect ratio isn't 1:1 like a normal display.

This means at native resolution anything you do in Windows will be stretched out across the display, like an HD station displaying stretched 4:3 content.

You can compensate for this with some playback software (e.g., Zoom Player's source relative stretch feature).

For all other programs, you can either a) pick native resolution for optimal quality and live with the stretching, b) pick a standard resolution and live with the scaling.
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post #27 of 28
9/10/08 at 6:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasmuskarlsen View Post

[b]OKAY! I have just found an explanation... The TV is Downscaling from 1080p > 720p... But on every "Tv-Tech-Forum" on danish sites, the experts again says that you can't tell the difference from 6 feet away... You have to be 3 or less away from the tv to tell the difference between 1080p and 720p (Only because this plasma tv, have really good colors, and the panel is good quality)

More like 7.5 feet.

http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html
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post #28 of 28
9/11/08 at 6:17am
Thread Starter 
Okay i have orderered the Intel Setup... And hope this would be good!
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AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Home Theater Computers › HTPC - "Intel VS AMD" > E8400,G45,4850e,790GX...