Best Sub with Dali Helicon 400 MkII?

Originally Posted by rjtw

I've got a 2-channel setup now with Dali Helicon 400 mkIIs (which I love) but would like to get a new toy to continue building the system. What's the best musical sub to go with the Dalis? I'd like something that looks good with the Dalis' cherry finish too.

Anybody tried the Dali S600? It has a nice appearance but it's pricey compared to others on the market.

I've got a Denon PMA-2000AE amp, listen 90% to music/10% TV/DVD (no HT system, yet), any size sub is OK, pretty flexible on budget, have a standard living room to fill now (maybe 2500 cubic feet) but want something that can work in a larger room as well. I can feed the sub a full-spectrum pre-out from the amp with standard RCAs.

Also, as I'm totally new to subwoofers, should I plan on purchasing additional equipment as part of the deal to equalize the sub? Recommendations appreciated. I'm still wading through the whole topic of equalization but that's another story...

Thanks
Rick

Originally Posted by rjtw

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I'm outside the US, in Japan. Most of the brands I see on this forum are not readily available from local retailers, but I'm OK with mail order. I hope to demo some units when I'm next back in the States. FYI some of the brands here, in addition to the major Japanese labels, include Elac, Audio Pro, Tangent, Tannoy, Dali, Highland Audio, B&W, Bose, Mackie, Monitor Audio, Infinity, JBL and Roland.
Best regards-
Rick

Originally Posted by rydenfan

Dali actually sells pretty well in the US and has a pretty active thread in the speaker forum. I agree 100% about the other brands though. Dont forget about great companies like Harbeth and PMC as well...

Originally Posted by spyboy

I guess I just can't be bothered with either Dali or Jamo. Apparently they are still sold in boutiques to those who don't know any better. What kind of resale value do you think that Dali and Jamo have?

Also, what does "sells pretty well" mean? Compared to what? Certainly not JBL, Infinity, and others.

Neither Dali nor Jamo is a stellar performer, unless you think they are a well kept secret. Dali and Jamo are for people who can't really afford B&W.

Originally Posted by spyboy

I guess I just can't be bothered with either Dali or Jamo. Apparently they are still sold in boutiques to those who don't know any better. What kind of resale value do you think that Dali and Jamo have?

Also, what does "sells pretty well" mean? Compared to what? Certainly not JBL, Infinity, and others.

Neither Dali nor Jamo is a stellar performer, unless you think they are a well kept secret. Dali and Jamo are for people who can't really afford B&W.

Originally Posted by rydenfan

I have owned Dali Helicon 400's and I ran them with a JL Audio F-113. Great combo

Originally Posted by rjtw

Thanks to all who have replied.

Rydenfan, Djoel -- thanks for mentioning the JL F-113. I was not yet familiar with that model but it looks like it might be a perfect fit for my needs (even with builtin single-channel auto equalization) and has stellar reviews. I'll definitely check that out for sure, plus some of the other models mentioned, next time I'm back. Too bad JL Audio doesn't do Internet sales and doesn't list any international distributors on its website though!!

Originally Posted by VectorLabs

Wow troll much?

Originally Posted by videoaddikt

Not that his user-name would ever be a giveaway..

I have a set of Dali Ikon 6s..along with their best center and OnWall surrounds.
My retailer sold me those and did not even recommend their sub.

For the time being I purchased an open-box Velodyne DLS-5000R from him. The best thing about it is it sounds musical. Has a lot of oomph especially for my somewhat modest HT area. And it looks 'cool'. But extension below 30Hz is non-existent.

I am looking at Epik, ED, AV123, and a few others as options. Dalis are hardly dead. Very competitive speakers for music and HT. The Helicons are a masterpiece, but not cheap. Sound great with good upscale hardware too.

Originally Posted by spyboy

I googled dali helicon and the first review said this:

"I bought Dali helicon to replace Jamo D590".

When I said that Dali and Jamo are essentially "off brands", I wasn't kidding. You don't have to know much to realize that the really good stuff starts with the B&W 802's. It's been that way for years now.

I ask again, what kind of resale value do you think Dali and Jamo have, especially compared to B&W 802?

Now that you have had time to experience the Velo 5000, you know that it is lacking in the bottom two octaves, 30-15 Hz, and 15-7.5 Hz. You are on the right track with internet direct subs. For about $1,200 you can get a major performer.

The review of the Helicon by Stereophile states:

"While Dali has maintained a relatively low profile in the US..."

It would be naive to think that Dali deliberatley restricts sales of its speakers. For $6,300 I would get a pair of B&W 802's.

Nothing has changed with Dali or Jamo over the years, they are both bit players in the overall speaker market in the USA, and are targeted to those who shop in boutiques, but can't afford B&W 802's, (among others).

I would venture to guess that more people buy Paradigm, Vanderstein, Theil, Revel, Aerial, Wilson and other boutique brands than buy Dali and Jamo combined.

Originally Posted by rydenfan

Guys, just ignore the troll. His posts are ridiculous and he has zero idea what he is talking about.

Originally Posted by spyboy

I guess I just can't be bothered with either Dali or Jamo. Apparently they are still sold in boutiques to those who don't know any better. What kind of resale value do you think that Dali and Jamo have?

Also, what does "sells pretty well" mean? Compared to what? Certainly not JBL, Infinity, and others.

Neither Dali nor Jamo is a stellar performer, unless you think they are a well kept secret. Dali and Jamo are for people who can't really afford B&W.

Originally Posted by conradjohnsonfan

LMAO at Dali not being a stellar performer. Obviously you have never heard them. Admittedly they aren't for everyone, but to question their performance is silly.

B&W makes a great speaker, but I guarantee you Dali is in the same league. There are some aficionados I know, though, that would argue B&W doesn't deserve to be included in Dali's league.


Besides, B&W's are sold at the same boutique stores you bemoan at similarly bloated prices...

Originally Posted by spyboy


I bet those Dalis sound really great with a 3 watt single ended triode

Originally Posted by videoaddikt

Thanks for admitting you have no idea what they sound like under any condition.

Originally Posted by spyboy

I have no interest in Dali or Jamo. Wouldn't touch either one. Not when you can get a pair of Magnapan 3.6's or a clean pair of used B&W 802D's.

Why don't you check Audiogon right now and see that a mint pair of Helcion 400 Mk II won't even fetch half price?

That is what I said to start with and I stand by it. Dali and Jamo have a real depreciation problem, and are bit players in the speaker market in this country.

Their subwoofers are not even mentioned in this section of the forum. Not one person answered the OPs question about the Dali S600 subwoofer. That is because they are bit players in the subwoofer market as well. Either that or Dali subs are another well-kept secret.

Originally Posted by videoaddikt

Anyone with any common sense would judge speakers by sound not by price or other off-tangent marketing theory.

As far as subs go, don't try to insult our intelligence even beyond your previous statements, you only further erode what little credibility you have left.

We are all well aware that manufacturers in the primary business of designing subwoofers in general make ones far superior to even the most reputable speaker brands. And they are generally more cost-effective to boot.

Originally Posted by spyboy

Like I said, check Audiogon and see what kind of huge hit you take with bit players in the speaker market.

Dali is what it is, a bit player in the speaker market, and a joke in the subwoofer market.

Originally Posted by videoaddikt

I respect the fact you have a right to an opinion, even if it is totally baseless.
Troll on!

Originally Posted by spyboy

I know a bit player in the speaker market when I see one. If you can provide one scintilla of evidence that Dali is more than a bit player in the speaker market, feel free to post it. I would be looking for things like market share, sales volume, number of retailers, sales rankings by price class, etc.

The real action is with B&W, Aerial, Revel, Wilson, AV123 Rocket. In fact, AV123 will be selling the LS9 which will be pretty similar to the Dali Megaline, except that the LS9 was heard at the Rocky Mountain Audio Festival and got rave reviews. The $55,000 Megaline is going nowhere. People have already placed orders for the $6,000 LS9.

Thanks in advance.