Weinstein Company/Genius lacking quality control: artifact-ridden transfer of "1408"

Originally Posted by TheLion

Interesting! Thank you for the confirmation. It really was quite obvious with "The Orphanage" as well - not so much with Yuma.

At times it really looks like a line doubled/point-sampled 1080i transfer.

Originally Posted by TheLion

So, the Weinstein company just released their first two Blu-Ray releases and the result is ... catastrophic (excuse the hyperbole).

I would go as far as calling it absolutely "unwatchable" on any revealing (front-projection) setup sitting anywhere between 1-2 screen widths..

Originally Posted by TheLion

So, the Weinstein company just released their first two Blu-Ray releases and the result is ... catastrophic (excuse the hyperbole).

I would go as far as calling it absolutely "unwatchable" on any revealing (front-projection) setup sitting anywhere between 1-2 screen widths.

My comments are regarding the recent "1408" Blu-Ray release - I cannot say anything about "The Mist" as I didn't see it yet (nor do I have any intention to spend another /$ on anything Weinstein/Genius until these "issues" are sorted out...)

So what is happening... With their first ever BD release and general HD release in quite a while (I had "Lucky Number Slevin" on HD-DVD back in the days and it was of good quality) they did a few things right - nice menu, lossless True HD track, rather high bitrate VC-1 encoding...

BUT the transfer is artifact-ridden like no other I have seen since "Dirty Dancing". The artifact we are talking about here is aliasing. It is everywhere - on any single frame - throughout the whole movie. And it looks even worse than those infamous "bobbed"/line-doubled Warner accidents 2 years ago.

For the visually impaired (aka you typical online HD reviewer ) who don't see nor recognize it as an anomaly - look at any high contrast transition throughout the movie and it jumps right at you...Simply start with the opening credits for example and work your way through each an every line of each and every frame.

The really interesting part is that hardly any "respected reviewer" cares to recognize this "issue" - although it is as obvious as it gets...

Please allow me to quote our very own Ralph Potts at this point (just one example representative of the current state of online HDM reviews) : "I thought that this was a very film like presentation that didn't display any obvious video related artifacts associated with the encoding." http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1060803

No comment.

This is (IMHO, and if possible...) much more severe than all the DNR butchered, EE-ridden and contrast bumped releases lately. It is not just a digitally filtered abstraction of film but an artifact that makes it absolutely impossible to watch without being distracted...

Pictures tell more than a thousand words...

The following are direct digital frame captures I took from the Blu-Ray.com review of 1408 to demonstrate the problem...

"Funny" enough not even the reviewer who took these captures mentioned this tiny, little issue in his review... Unbelievable.



Maybe Xylon and/or House chime in and provide additional captures (just choose any random frame you like )

I cropped 1080p caps in order to obey the upload limit here - 1:1 no scaling/processing - for the full frame caps login at Blu-Ray.com.

(little hint if necessary at all: look at high contrast transitions - lamps, noses, collars,... Make sure to view these without scaling (1:1 pixel mapping!))

Interesting enough - if you downsample the original 1080p screencaps to 720p the issue becomes almost invisible... This begs the question - Does Genius/Weinstein use 720p displays for quality control??

If you don't login at Blu-Ray.com you get downsampled 720p caps:
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/screen...028&position=1
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/screen...028&position=2


Why all the fuss? I want to make sure that the discerning public and above all Weinstein/Genius become aware of this issue (a job online reviewers should have done...). Weinstein should look into their processing and make sure to avoid issues like this one in the future.

Second - it is very interesting that this issue is almost hidden when viewed at 720p while being strikingly obvious on native 1080p displays. Prime example of the curse a state-of-the-art setup can be

As obvious as the screencaps are - the issue is even more severe watched in motion. (My setup for reference: PS3 -> HDMI -> Sharp XV-Z20000 native 1080p DLP front projector -> 10 feet wide Stewart Studiothek 130 G3 -> sitting at 1.3 screen widths)

And yes - the following are true 1:1 1080p direct digital frame caps (although jpg compressed) - just cropped, not zoomed/scaled - this is how it looks on screen...

Originally Posted by eric.exe

I see it clearly and you have to be blind and/or unknowledgeable of what HD is supposed to look like to miss it.

Originally Posted by TheLion

"Any kind of scaling masks the issue to some degree."

Originally Posted by TheLion

So, the Weinstein company just released their first two Blu-Ray releases and the result is ... catastrophic (excuse the hyperbole).

I would go as far as calling it absolutely "unwatchable" on any revealing (front-projection) setup sitting anywhere between 1-2 screen widths.

My comments are regarding the recent "1408" Blu-Ray release - I cannot say anything about "The Mist" as I didn't see it yet (nor do I have any intention to spend another /$ on anything Weinstein/Genius until these "issues" are sorted out...)

So what is happening... With their first ever BD release and general HD release in quite a while (I had "Lucky Number Slevin" on HD-DVD back in the days and it was of good quality) they did a few things right - nice menu, lossless True HD track, rather high bitrate VC-1 encoding...

BUT the transfer is artifact-ridden like no other I have seen since "Dirty Dancing". The artifact we are talking about here is aliasing. It is everywhere - on any single frame - throughout the whole movie. And it looks even worse than those infamous "bobbed"/line-doubled Warner accidents 2 years ago.

For the visually impaired (aka you typical online HD reviewer ) who don't see nor recognize it as an anomaly - look at any high contrast transition throughout the movie and it jumps right at you...Simply start with the opening credits for example and work your way through each an every line of each and every frame.

The really interesting part is that hardly any "respected reviewer" cares to recognize this "issue" - although it is as obvious as it gets...

Please allow me to quote our very own Ralph Potts at this point (just one example representative of the current state of online HDM reviews) : "I thought that this was a very film like presentation that didn't display any obvious video related artifacts associated with the encoding." http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1060803

No comment.

This is (IMHO, and if possible...) much more severe than all the DNR butchered, EE-ridden and contrast bumped releases lately. It is not just a digitally filtered abstraction of film but an artifact that makes it absolutely impossible to watch without being distracted...

Pictures tell more than a thousand words...

The following are direct digital frame captures I took from the Blu-Ray.com review of 1408 to demonstrate the problem...

"Funny" enough not even the reviewer who took these captures mentioned this tiny, little issue in his review... Unbelievable.



Maybe Xylon and/or House chime in and provide additional captures (just choose any random frame you like )

I cropped 1080p caps in order to obey the upload limit here - 1:1 no scaling/processing - for the full frame caps login at Blu-Ray.com.

(little hint if necessary at all: look at high contrast transitions - lamps, noses, collars,... Make sure to view these without scaling (1:1 pixel mapping!))

Interesting enough - if you downsample the original 1080p screencaps to 720p the issue becomes almost invisible... This begs the question - Does Genius/Weinstein use 720p displays for quality control??

If you don't login at Blu-Ray.com you get downsampled 720p caps:
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/screen...028&position=1
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/screen...028&position=2


Why all the fuss? I want to make sure that the discerning public and above all Weinstein/Genius become aware of this issue (a job online reviewers should have done...). Weinstein should look into their processing and make sure to avoid issues like this one in the future.

Second - it is very interesting that this issue is almost hidden when viewed at 720p while being strikingly obvious on native 1080p displays. Prime example of the curse a state-of-the-art setup can be

As obvious as the screencaps are - the issue is even more severe watched in motion. (My setup for reference: PS3 -> HDMI -> Sharp XV-Z20000 native 1080p DLP front projector -> 10 feet wide Stewart Studiothek 130 G3 -> sitting at 1.3 screen widths)

And yes - the following are true 1:1 1080p direct digital frame caps (although jpg compressed) - just cropped, not zoomed/scaled - this is how it looks on screen...

Originally Posted by Ralph Potts

Snide or insulting posts that are accusatory serve no purpose and in most cases will garner a similar response or none at all. Thanks to TheLion for bringing this to light.

Originally Posted by TheLion

Thank you very much for your kind reply, Ralph.

Please understand how frustrating it is to have so many HDM (online) reviewers out there and still almost any single "issue" there is with transfers, encodings, mastering, authoring or just wrongly setting a flag for dynamic compression with the latest True-HD track (THANK you very much for all your time and concern regarding this "Iron Man" matter...big kudos to you) is not being recognized nor brought to public attention by "self announced online HDM reviewers" but by enthusiasts with a keen eye, understanding of the technical background and state of the art equipment.

That's what is troubling. I really don't know how bad and objectively questionable any given "fault" with one of these HDM releases needs to be that all you reviewers recognize it as such... I don't intend to lecture nor to offend you but you need to think about your responsibility towards your "customers/readers" (who invest money based on your judgment) and - and this is so much more important than somebody spending $25 on a subpar, artifact ridden transfer - towards the industry itself. If those of us with public attention - the online HDM reviewer crowd - approve or even praise transfers like this one (or the dozens of DNRed/EE/digitally filtered/contrast "enhanced" releases we have had to endure) there hardly is any incentive for the studios to rethink there practices and improve QC/setting higher quality standards.

I mean we have had HDM releases sourced from an (badly) upsampled 480i master and well respected reviewers still called it "very film-like", "just like the director intended" and giving it good marks (don't make me look for the quotes again )

About you not being able to see those kind of issues from your typical viewing position
I really don't want to offend you but THIS is exactly what I am talking about - how can you ever judge any HDM release from your "typical viewing position" with any kind of credibility if you are not able to see nor recognize artifacts like this one at the first glimpse. Right when the movie starts and the first lines of text in all their aliased, shimmering and artifact ridden glory appear on screen you as a so-called reviewer must be able to recognize this as an issue.

It doesn't get more obvious than that. If you need to stand "right next to your screen" to experience it it is only natural that you yourself question the quality of your service as a public voice assessing HDM releases.

(Ralph, this is nothing personal as I respect you as one of the "reviewers" out there who is enthusiastic and ambitious about what you do and I generally enjoy reading your opinions.)

Originally Posted by dajuice

Woa.. now I'm judging only from those two cropped pics in OPs post, but this almost looks like badly upscaled sub-HD footage. Ignoring the high-contrast areas with the obvious aliasing, if you look anywhere else in the image it just looks plain blurry! Now I really didn't care for 1408, but if The Mist turns out like this I'll have to pass on another blu-ray release of a movie I really liked due to a botched transfer (hello Dark City).

For shame.