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Enhancing Yamaha AVRs via RS-232 - Page 9

post #241 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Download the ZIP file I linked towards the end of the first post in this thread. In there, the Vx700 documents are actually more complete than the Vx800 ones you have, and the codes are the same...

Uh, well that'll teach me to actually READ the intro to the thread before posting obvious questions!

Thanks for bothering to reply, and for your forensic skills in Yamaha's serial protocols.

Cheers
Roland
post #242 of 291
I'm not sure if anyone here can help me with this, but I've got an RX-V1. I'm sure there was/is a receiver manager written for it, but I can't seem to find it. Is there a comparable RecMgr for a similar era yamaha that would work?

On another note, I'm wondering if there is a way to assign the front-effects amps to Zone-2, and decouple them from the main mix. I know the RX-Z1 can, but the functionality may not exist in the RX-V1. Anyone got a bunch of resources for the V1?
post #243 of 291
Thread Starter 
I'm not sure if there ever was a Receiver Manager for the RX-V1, but I did find the RS-232 specs here. The protocol is the same as newer Yamahas (until they changed it for the most recent models), although it's only a subset of the commands supported by the Vx700 and Vx800 series. What were you hoping to do with Receiver Manager? It wouldn't be too hard to make a custom control program instead.

Can't help you with the other question I'm afraid.
post #244 of 291
Well, my hope was that if there wasn't a Receiver-Manager written specifically for the RX-V1, that there would be an RX-Vxxxx model that would be close enough that it could be used on the V1. Is there some type of handshake that happens once connected that would allow or prevent this?

I was also hoping that RM would allow a more in-depth feature control than the remote currently does. Is there any way to update/modify the receiver's firmware to allow actions that currently might not be enabled? Specifically the Zone2 internal amplifier. Depending on how much time I had, if the firmware code was available for the V1, and Z1, etc, I might be able to enable it in the V1, based on the hardware capability and using the Z1 firmware as reference.
post #245 of 291
Thread Starter 
I see from the manual the V1 only provides zone 2 pre-outs, and hence needs an external amp. Since all the newer models (even relatively cheap ones) have the option of using internal amps for zone 2, it's pretty likely that the V1 just doesn't have the hardware to assign amps to zone 2.

If Receiver Manager could unlock any new capability, we should see those commands in the RS-232 doc for the V1. Although in fact RM for any given model typically only implements the officially supported features, and if there were any extra capabilities you'd need to send the RS-232 commands from a custom application. (This is what I managed to do with the 1800 to manually adjust the parametric EQ -- that feature is not available through the GUI or through RM, but the RS-232 codes were documented and they worked.)

As for firmware mods, I know from experience with my 1800 that they take a lot of time and effort. But if you find the service manual for the V1 it will at least tell you if the hardware is present.

I suppose you want zone 2 to play at the same time as the main zone? If not, maybe you could connect your zone 2 speakers to the main speaker B terminals, then use the A/B switch to select either main zone or zone 2?

Edit: I found the RX-V1 service manual here. A quick look at the block diagram shows that zone 2 is implemented simply by selecting one of the analog inputs and feeding it directly to the pre-outs with only a volume control along the way. So unfortunately I think only a hardware mod would allow you to feed the zone 2 source through unused internal amps.
post #246 of 291
Thread Starter 
The iPhone app that I mentioned recently ("iRule") has now been released. It's a free download (at least for the moment), and the interface builder has a free 7 day trial (see www.iruleathome.com).

I tried it with a simple TCP to Serial gateway implemented on a PC and it works nicely. If anyone wants to try it, you can download this Java program. It needs the same RXTX files that I included with iPhoneSerial. The default serial port is COM1 and the default TCP port is 888, but these can be changed on the command line. e.g. if you run the program using

java -jar Tcp2Serial.jar -p COM2 -t 1500

then the iRule app will be able to connect on TCP port 1500 and control your receiver via COM2.
post #247 of 291
I have a question, I have a 3800, never used YPAO before, can you tell me how to back up my setting before using PEQEdit?
I found system memory->Save, and then pick a slot. Is this correct? My current settings can be loaded from there if I mess something up, right?
post #248 of 291
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post

I have a question, I have a 3800, never used YPAO before, can you tell me how to back up my setting before using PEQEdit?
I found system memory->Save, and then pick a slot. Is this correct? My current settings can be loaded from there if I mess something up, right?

Yes, that's how you would save all your current settings in one of the system memories. I think it's always a good idea to do that anyway, in case you accidentally change something you didn't intend. You also have four buttons on the remote control that can save/recall system memories without going into the menu.

Also remember that the 3800 does allow you to make changes to the PEQ through the normal GUI, so PEQedit doesn't really give you any new capabilities with the 3800, although it does provide a better way to view the results that YPAO came up with, or any changes that you make manually.
post #249 of 291
I am assuming there is no way to change the frequency of the band is there?
I did some adjustment yesterday, but since the frequency are at presets I cannot address the problem directly. The result is the green line, looks like I still need to buy a PEQ unit

post #250 of 291
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSignal View Post

I am assuming there is no way to change the frequency of the band is there?

Unfortunately no, you can only choose from the supported set of frequencies at 1/3 octave intervals. I use a separate BFD for my sub, since it has a lot more filters and finer control, but your green curve is not bad (only a 3dB peak and a 2dB dip). I'm not sure you'll hear a big difference if you smooth those out.
post #251 of 291
Will the PEQedit mentioned early in this tread work with the 663?
post #252 of 291
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carbon summit View Post

Will the PEQedit mentioned early in this tread work with the 663?

Unfortunately no, because the 663 doesn't support RS-232 control.
post #253 of 291
Thread Starter 
For the (probably one or two ) people who might be using the iPhoneSerial app to control their receiver over RS-232, Yamaha released an update (1.0.2) and it doesn't work with iPhoneSerial v0.1. To use the new version of the Yamaha app you need the update attached to this post. Unzip the attachment and put the two files in the same folder where you have the other iPhoneSerial files.

The new Yamaha app mainly seems to add support for controlling Bluetooth devices connected to the receiver. Since most of the older RS-232 models don't support Bluetooth, iPhoneSerial doesn't really support this feature, but I updated it to respond to the new commands so that the Yamaha app doesn't just hang.

 

iPhoneSerial_Update_0.3.zip 15.91015625k . file
post #254 of 291
Thank you for the update, works as advertised! One quick question, is the label names of the inputs stored in the Yamaha application or does it pull that from the receiver? In other words, how to change them?
post #255 of 291
Thread Starter 
The app does request the label names of the inputs, but right now I don't support that feature and always return the default name. I'll take a look at it when I have the time, but I'm not sure when that will be.
post #256 of 291
Is there any way I can help? I have another feature request as well. It would be great if the server supported both the Yamaha remote as well as the iRule remote. iTai distribute the serial gw, but both programs access the same serial port which is not great.
post #257 of 291
What would be the easiest way to achieve DLNA DMR capability with network enabled Yamaha receivers (i.e. control and choose the songs from your (DLNA or similar) server/computer by using either web interface or iPad/iPhone and Yamaha would play them back instantly)?
post #258 of 291
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vikinggeek View Post

...It would be great if the server supported both the Yamaha remote as well as the iRule remote. iTai distribute the serial gw, but both programs access the same serial port which is not great.

If I understand your request, you want a "gateway" that can distinguish between network commands coming from the Yamaha remote app (which have to be translated to the equivalent serial codes) and serial commands coming the iRule app (which just have to be passed to the serial port untranslated). Return values would have to be considered as well, so that raw serial codes don't get sent back to the Yamaha app that's not expecting them.

It could work, but if you have iRule why would you still want to use the Yamaha app, which doesn't do very much? Is it because iRule doesn't support two-way communication yet? I gave up using the Yamaha app when I started using iRule, and until feedback is supported (which I hope is soon) I made a page full of direct volume settings so I can pick the volume levels I typically use without being able to see the receiver front panel.
post #259 of 291
You right, there are actually several reasons to use the Yamaha app. 1) Two way communication 2) Synchronization of zone volume. 3) Convenience - since I rule doesn't really support the iTunes remote app on my home theater pc I end up having to switch app in many cases anyway. (Yamaha - on and set to desired input - Apple iTunes remote to select albums, playlists, etc).

I'm hoping that iOS 4.0 will provide better integration between the apps, but I'm not convinced after what I've seen.
post #260 of 291
VolumeControl is essential to my HT, love it!

Does it run on Windows 7 x64? I'm currently running Vista x86 on my HTPC and VolumeControl runs there. I want to upgrade to 7 x64, but only if VolumeControl will still work.
post #261 of 291
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster View Post

VolumeControl is essential to my HT, love it!

Does it run on Windows 7 x64? I'm currently running Vista x86 on my HTPC and VolumeControl runs there. I want to upgrade to 7 x64, but only if VolumeControl will still work.

I've never tested it with Windows 7 64-bit. It was written to use .NET 2.0, so if that's supported I guess it will work.

But wouldn't you be better off updating your receiver to the firmware version that includes the larger volume display? (unless you need some other feature of VolumeControl, not just the larger numbers).
post #262 of 291
VolumeControl works on Windows 7 x64, have been using it for my 1900.
post #263 of 291
Thread Starter 
PEQedit can't directly control the new RX-A1000/2000/3000 receivers because they use a different protocol and I don't really have time to add full support. But I did make a change so it can at least read the .xml files saved by Receiver Manager for the A-series. So you could save your settings with Receiver Manager, then open the file with PEQedit and graph the YPAO PEQ filters.

The updated version is in the attached file, along with a few more instructions. To see a screenshot, follow the link in the first post of this thread.

 

A-Series.zip 65.4208984375k . file
post #264 of 291
Thanks!
Today, I bought my RS-232 stuff to get the PEQEdit working with my 1800. Wonderful, finally I can use the YPAO calibration, which had in the standard setting no bass. I still don't know why the YPAO calibration is working so nicely but turns the lowest band down to -10db, but with the PEQEdit it's no problem anymore. Thanks again

What I'm currently wondering is, what the Q-factor does? Does it have any influence on my 1800 or is there a description what it actually does? The curve looks different but does it actually change my receiver settings when I change the values in PEQEdit?
post #265 of 291
Thread Starter 
Glad you found the program useful. Q affects the width of the filter, and yes it has an effect on the receiver. YPAO sets the centre frequency, gain and Q-factor for each filter, even though you can't tell from the receiver's menu what Q factors were chosen. But PEQedit reads them, and can write back the new values if you make changes.

There's a bit of description of the PEQ parameters near the back of the 1800 manual (p. 135 in mine). What's not so obvious is that a small Q value makes a wide filter, and a high Q value makes a narrow filter. If you start PEQedit and don't open a connection to the receiver, you can play around with a single filter to see how Q affects the curve.
post #266 of 291
Has anybody been able to use either Receiver Manager/PEQ Edit via a USB RS232 converter under Windows 7 to a 3900?

I have checked two different USB/RS232 converters and null modem cables with Hyperterminal and they work OK.

But when I try to open the same port via PEQ Edit (or Rec. Manager) neither can be opened. Rebooting has no effect so I can only assume that Windows 7 may be the culprit.
post #267 of 291
Thread Starter 
The problem is that the 3900 uses a completely new RS-232 protocol not supported by PEQedit, and the 3900 version of Receiver Manager (RM) uses a network connection instead of RS-232.

So if you connect your 3900 to your network, RM should work (as long as you have the 3900 version). Then if you upload all your settings using RM and save them in a file (it will be a .xml file), you can at least open that file with PEQedit and display the YPAO results. But if you make changes in PEQedit you won't be able to send them back to the receiver automatically.
post #268 of 291
Thanks for the answer.

But why oh why do Yamaha have a an RS232 socket on the back and include a test for it in the service manual.

Maybe they jumped ship half way through development

Also does the 3900 have to be hardwired or can it use a wireless dongle?
post #269 of 291
Thread Starter 
The 3900 still supports RS-232 control (with a new protocol that PEQedit doesn't speak), but since it also supports IP control they decided to use that for Receiver Manager instead of RS-232. The 3900 does not have Wi-Fi built in, but if you can't easily run a cable you could plug it into a wireless access point.
post #270 of 291
Yep that confirms it and thanks for the info
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