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Enhancing Yamaha AVRs via RS-232 - Page 3

post #61 of 291
11/20/08 at 11:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikl1984 View Post

Data depends on player:
PowerDVD - 48kHz
TMT - 192kHz
In all cases I didn't see bitrate
...
What's reason?

The bitrate is only really useful for lossy codecs (e.g. 640kbps for Dolby Digital, etc.), and the receiver doesn't report it for PCM or lossless codecs.

The bit depth (e.g. 16, 20 or 24 bits per sample) would be interesting but unfortunately it's not reported (it's not available under Signal Info from the GUI either).
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post #62 of 291
11/25/08 at 11:08am
Hi Kriksemaj99,
Thanks for all your work on this program and contributions on the various forums particularly regarding Yamaha Receivers! I recently purchased an RX-V1900 E (Southern European Model) in Spain. I tried the PEQ editor however unfortunately was only able to open the port and was not able to upload any PEQ data to the computer. The program sits idle with the hourglass symbol and I have to use task manager to close it. Model ID reports as R0240. I tried the PEQtest file with no problems with PEQ editor running (however not connected to the receiver). The receiver manager software runs fine on the same computer and connection. I tried several times with each delay setting and waited a considerable time for each attempt. Unfortunately it would appear the program does not yet work with the 1900 unless you can offer any other suggestions for trial?
Hopefully you will be able to obtain the RS232 data for this receiver some time as I'd love to see the graphical results of the YPAO. Laptop is a Dell running Windows XP.
Thanks again
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post #63 of 291
11/25/08 at 1:00pm
Thread Starter 
Since the model name and ID were displayed when you clicked the Open button, that's a sign that something is working at least. Could you please try the following and send me the results (by PM preferably, as the debugging process will be pretty boring for everyone else).

From a command prompt run PEQedit with the /debug switch. i.e type

peqedit /debug

Before you do anything else select the two items at the bottom of the window ("Show commands sent" and "Show replies"). Then select the COM port and click Open. You should see commands and replies displayed.

Then press Upload and see what happens. Are any more commands and replies displayed before it hangs? How far does the progress bar get before it hangs (the progress bar is just below the Upload and Download buttons).

Unfortnately you won't be able to cut and paste the command and reply text if the program hangs, but you should be able to use Print Screen to make a screenshot of what was displayed and that couls be useful.

I'll send you a PM later with more questions, and maybe send you a new version that provides more debugging info.
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post #64 of 291
11/25/08 at 1:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tv tweaker View Post

Hopefully you will be able to obtain the RS232 data for this receiver some time as I'd love to see the graphical results of the YPAO.

Actually there is a way to see the results from the file that Receiver Manager (RM) creates:
  • Run RM, upload your settings and save to a file (it's just a text file).
  • Open the file in a text editor (Notepad will work) and search for "Parametric EQ".
  • Select all the lines below that point that start with "(Natural-", Copy them and paste into a new text file with the .peq extension (there will be about 200 lines, and the last ones are for the subwoofer settings). Save that new file.
  • In PEQedit you can now open the new .peq file and display your settings.
  • You can make 3 separate files for the Natural-, Flat- and Front- settings (just cut the appropriate lines out of the RM file).
I'm going to modify PEQedit so it can open the RM files directly, including the new XML format files used by RM for the 3900.
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post #65 of 291
11/25/08 at 2:32pm
Using the notepad method from the receiver manager file worked well, now able to see what is being done by the PEQ! Thanks.

Tried the command line debug you suggested however cannot get it to recognise the program so can't run it. Will try more tomorrow- laptop has an encryption program that may be interfering.
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post #66 of 291
11/27/08 at 9:56am
Thread Starter 
I can confirm that the RS-232 commands to read PEQ settings on the x700 and x800 series are not working on the 1900 (they return a command parameter error). But since we have Receiver Manager for the 1900 it should be easy to monitor the serial port and see what new commands are being used when settings are uploaded and downloaded.
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post #67 of 291
11/28/08 at 9:52am
Thread Starter 
For those interested (...anyone? ) the extended command to read PEQ settings on the Vx800 and earlier models is:-

0340cb (where c = channel ID, and b = band ID)

and on the Vx900 it becomes,

0340pcb

the additional byte, p, is the PEQ type: 0, 1, or 2 for the 1900, with presumably 3 (manual) also supported on the 3900.

I guess they needed to do this because the new models actually store 3 (or 4) complete sets of PEQ values at the same time.
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post #68 of 291
11/28/08 at 12:32pm
I'm interested a great deal in the work your doing, but the a beater XP laptop I was using with your software died. What I would really kill for is a web control interface like the Vx900 series has, but there is no way I can upgrade anytime soon. I've seen some net server boxes under $200. It would be cool to hook one of those up with a web interface with all the Receiver Manager functions and your software. At lest I can dream:-)

Thanks for you hard work
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post #69 of 291
11/28/08 at 7:29pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGuyFLA View Post

I'm interested a great deal in the work your doing, but the a beater XP laptop I was using with your software died. What I would really kill for is a web control interface like the Vx900 series has, but there is no way I can upgrade anytime soon. I've seen some net server boxes under $200. It would be cool to hook one of those up with a web interface with all the Receiver Manager functions and your software.

Thanks for the feedback. I guess there will still be a lot of Vx700 and Vx800 series models in use for years to come, so adding network control via some kind of RS232 to ethernet adapter would be an interesting project (if it hasn't already been done and we just don't know about it).
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post #70 of 291
12/3/08 at 9:06pm
Thread Starter 
Here's a new version of PEQedit that works with the RX-V1900. This model use a few new RS-232 commands, but by monitoring what Receiver Manager was sending to tv tweaker's 1900, we figured out what they are.

It won't work directly with the 3900 or Z7, but you can at least use Receiver Manager in Async mode to upload your settings and save them in a file. Then you can load the PEQ settings from this .xml file into PEQedit and display them. Note that only one of the 4 sets of values (Flat, Front, Natural or Manual) is loaded at a time, so to display a different set you have to change PEQ type and load settings from the file again.


NB. one slight glitch with the 1900 is that when you open the COM port PEQedit does not display the currently selected PEQ type correctly. Just ignore that and select the type you want to upload/download from the PEQ type drop-down list.

 

PEQedit_v1.1.zip 65.1943359375k . file
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post #71 of 291
12/9/08 at 12:08pm
I've got an RX-V1900, a 67" Samsung LED rear-projection TV and a complete 7.1 set of JBL Studio L Series speakers.

After YPAO setup and tweaking the settings (all "small" speakers, sub cross-over at 80hz, DRC off) everything sounds reasonably good. Except, though, I'm very unhappy with my center speaker performance. It continues to get overpowered by the front speakers (voices drained out/muffled, even in non-action movie scenes).

What settings can I manipulate to bring out the center, without bending the overall sound into a warp?

Thanks for any & all advice!
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post #72 of 291
12/9/08 at 6:34pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying_Dutchman View Post

I've got an RX-V1900, a 67" Samsung LED rear-projection TV and a complete 7.1 set of JBL Studio L Series speakers.

After YPAO setup and tweaking the settings (all "small" speakers, sub cross-over at 80hz, DRC off) everything sounds reasonably good. Except, though, I'm very unhappy with my center speaker performance. It continues to get overpowered by the front speakers (voices drained out/muffled, even in non-action movie scenes).

What settings can I manipulate to bring out the center, without bending the overall sound into a warp?

I would try the suggestions from the other thread first. If you still have no luck then I guess comparing YPAO on (EQ TYPE = AUTO PEQ) and off (EQ TYPE = OFF) will tell you if YPAO PEQ is causing the problem. If so (which is probably unlikely), it would be interesting to upload the PEQ settings and see what's being done to the centre channel, but that requires a null modem RS-232 cable connected to a PC.
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post #73 of 291
12/13/08 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Thanks for the feedback. I guess there will still be a lot of Vx700 and Vx800 series models in use for years to come, so adding network control via some kind of RS232 to ethernet adapter would be an interesting project (if it hasn't already been done and we just don't know about it).

Use this product and you will have it. There is also many cheaper versions made by different companies. They are pretty easy to set up using the free comport manager software from the Lantronix website.

http://www.lantronix.com/device-netw...rs/mss100.html
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post #74 of 291
12/13/08 at 10:54am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymerkramer View Post

Use this product and you will have it. There is also many cheaper versions made by different companies. They are pretty easy to set up using the free comport manager software from the Lantronix website.

That kind of device would certainly allow current serial port applications like Receiver Manager (or my programs) to work via a network connection. But it would still need some new software to present a web browser interface to the models that only have a serial connection (i.e. an application that presents a web page, and converts user input to RS-232 commands). Sounds like it's worth some thought.
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post #75 of 291
12/13/08 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

That kind of device would certainly allow current serial port applications like Receiver Manager (or my programs) to work via a network connection. But it would still need some new software to present a web browser interface to the models that only have a serial connection (i.e. an application that presents a web page, and converts user input to RS-232 commands). Sounds like it's worth some thought.

It works great with receiver manager, there is a tutorial for setting it up for the 1700/2700 receivers. I will see if I still have it bookmarked and post the link. There is an SDK kit for the device servers floating out there somewhere as well. The Lantronix units are fairly expensive but there are some other brands that can be had for under $100.
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post #76 of 291
12/13/08 at 11:16am
A couple of good links for help!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...63#post8890463

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...52#post9567152
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post #77 of 291
12/17/08 at 7:07am
Just discovered this thread - wow, fantastic!

I have long wanted to modify the PEQ settings on my RX-V1800 and was frustrated this wasn't possible, until now!

I'd like to make sure I understand this correctly. I use Room EQ Wizard (REW) in conjunction with a Berringer Frequency Destroyer to calibrate my subwoofer.

First I use YPAO to calibrate have the 1800 calibrate the overall room. Then I use REW to dial in the sub.

YPAO doesn't do a great job with the sub, and I wind up having to use REW to counter-act to some degree what the YPAO adds to the sub, and to then dial in the sub very nicely.

So do I understand correctly that I could now use PEQedit to get better overall control from the sub, so that my REW optimization can be better optimized? In other words, I can now use the subwoofer portion of YPAO as another controllable part of my eq?

My approach would be this:

1) Select the memory preset from my AVR that has the YPAO calibration that I want to edit.

2) Connect to the AVR with PEQedit and use Upload to PC option. This will load in all the current values, correct?

3) Choose Subwoofer from the Channel drop down and make edits to Band 1 and Band 2 as desired.

4) Use Download to AVR to write the new values.

5) Use REW to check my sub level, make calibration tweaks with the Berringer, and go back to #3 above as needed. Repeat until satisfied with new calibration.

6) Use the AVR's memory save function to commit the new values.

Do I have this right?

Also am I correct to assume that the graphs shown by the View-Response Curve function is based on the latest YPAO run? In that case I can not really use this graph, because if I run YPAO again it'll reset all my PEQ settings to what it thinks are ideal based on the YPAO run?

Thanks!
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post #78 of 291
12/17/08 at 12:05pm
Thread Starter 
Your list of steps is correct, but if you have a BFD I don't think YPAO will help that much with the sub. The BFD has so many more filter bands than YPAO, and so much more control over the frequency and Q factor of each band.

If you've already set up a BFD to EQ your sub, then I would probably just leave it alone (i.e. make sure the BFD is active when you run YPAO). This way YPAO shouldn't do much to the sub, but if you think it's helping then keep the YPAO sub filters, otherwise turn them off with PEQedit and keep only the BFD EQ.

I think the Yamaha PEQ is more useful with the main speakers, either to correct for room problems or (in manual mode) just to change the tonality of the speakers to whatever you prefer.

The 1800 only stores one current set of PEQ values (not counting what you've saved in memories), and if you change the filters manually and download the changes, they will be overwritten if you run YPAO again. The idea is that YPAO may give you a starting point, but once you start tweaking manually you won't normally be running YPAO again.

If REW would give you a separate frequency graph for each speaker (I don't think it does that but other software probably does), I suppose PEQedit could be made to read that and then display the result of applying the PEQ filters to your measured response, to make it easier to flatten the response manually. I could potentially even calculate the PEQ filters required to flatten the response. But the initial goal for PEQedit was just to let you control the PEQ manually on the 1800/1900 like you can on the 3800/3900.
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post #79 of 291
12/17/08 at 12:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Your list of steps is correct, but if you have a BFD I don't think YPAO will help that much with the sub. The BFD has so many more filter bands than YPAO, and so much more control over the frequency and Q factor of each band.

If you've already set up a BFD to EQ your sub, then I would probably just leave it alone (i.e. make sure the BFD is active when you run YPAO). This way YPAO shouldn't do much to the sub, but if you think it's helping then keep the YPAO sub filters, otherwise turn them off with PEQedit and keep only the BFD EQ.

I think the Yamaha PEQ is more useful with the main speakers, either to correct for room problems or (in manual mode) just to change the tonality of the speakers to whatever you prefer.

The 1800 only stores one current set of PEQ values (not counting what you've saved in memories), and if you change the filters manually and download the changes, they will be overwritten if you run YPAO again. The idea is that YPAO may give you a starting point, but once you start tweaking manually you won't normally be running YPAO again.

If REW would give you a separate frequency graph for each speaker (I don't think it does that but other software probably does), I suppose PEQedit could be made to read that and then display the result of applying the PEQ filters to your measured response, to make it easier to flatten the response manually. I could potentially even calculate the PEQ filters required to flatten the response. But the initial goal for PEQedit was just to let you control the PEQ manually on the 1800/1900 like you can on the 3800/3900.

Well here is the thing... I do my REW work *after* YPAO. YPAO adds sub filters, that I wind up having to "work around" to a certain extent with REW. My thinking is that things would be a lot easier to calibrate a nice sub response if YPAO wouldn't touch the sub frequencies.

So my thought was to null out the YPAO sub filters. Then update my REW calibration accordingly. The net result, however, may not yield much benefit.

However - from what I recall I did have a bit of a post-calibration hump around 80hz that no matter what I tried I couldn't get rid of with REW. So my thinking is that perhaps with direct control over the YPAO now (thanks to PEQedit!) that I may be able to take care of it by tweaking YPAO. Thoughts on this?
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post #80 of 291
12/17/08 at 2:54pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

...However - from what I recall I did have a bit of a post-calibration hump around 80hz that no matter what I tried I couldn't get rid of with REW. So my thinking is that perhaps with direct control over the YPAO now (thanks to PEQedit!) that I may be able to take care of it by tweaking YPAO. Thoughts on this?

I suppose the hump could be coming from the main speakers or their interaction with the sub near the crossover frequency. So you may need to tweak them as well as the sub. When I used REW I measured the response of the sub alone, sub+mains, and each main speaker separately. I had to physically unplug the speakers I didn't want to measure because REW wouldn't generate tones for each channel independently. I also realized after a while that I was never going to get things perfectly flat in my room!
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post #81 of 291
12/17/08 at 4:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

I suppose the hump could be coming from the main speakers or their interaction with the sub near the crossover frequency. So you may need to tweak them as well as the sub. When I used REW I measured the response of the sub alone, sub+mains, and each main speaker separately. I had to physically unplug the speakers I didn't want to measure because REW wouldn't generate tones for each channel independently. I also realized after a while that I was never going to get things perfectly flat in my room!

Yes I agree the hump probably is from the interaction with the fronts. But my thought on testing them together is that they are going to play together for those frequencies with real material so I better calibrate with all speakers going. Does this make sense?

You bring up a good point about the fronts. I couldn't nullify what YPAO was doing there before. So it was either use YPAO for the full range of calibration (which I wanted) and pick up the not so great settings around 80hz and then try to compenstate with REW (but at least I got 120hz+ calibration which I can't with REW), or don't use REW. But now with your tool I can fix the part of PEQ that YPAO is messing me up on. Brilliant! Think that will work?
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post #82 of 291
12/17/08 at 5:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

... Think that will work?

It might well work, but the tricky part is knowing what changes to make. Do the current YPAO filter curves show anything unusual at 80Hz in any channel (as if YPAO is already trying to fix your hump?). Can you post a .peq file with settings you uploaded with PEQedit? (not that I'm likely to have all the answers, I only write the software ).
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post #83 of 291
12/17/08 at 9:06pm
Hi kriktsemaj99 - I tried to run PEQedit tonight to upload my PEQ settings to my PC so I could send these to you. However I couldn't get the COM port to open.

I'm using a RX-V1800 connected via null modem cable to my laptop on COM4 through a Belkin USB to Serial adapter. I can use this same setup to run Receiver Manager and upload all the receiver settings to my PC just fine.

When I try to run PEQedit I select COM4 and then choose Open and it comes back and says that it failed to communicate or something like that. I have a green and red light on the Belkin device that shows communication. When I try this the green and red lights flicker for a quick second before the error comes up, so it does appear to be trying.

Any ideas? Thanks!
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post #84 of 291
12/17/08 at 9:40pm
Thread Starter 
If RM works then PEQedit should work on the same COM port (nobody has ever reported a basic problem like that with PEQedit). But make sure you are not running RM at the same time, because only one program at a time can open a specific COM port.

Use the latest PEQedit (version 1.1), and maybe reboot to make sure you're not stuck in some funny state (on my laptop the USB to RS232 adapter won't work after the laptop goes into standby mode).

And if the 1800 is off (in standby) when you run PEQedit, does it at least turn on when you press Open?
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post #85 of 291
12/17/08 at 10:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

If RM works then PEQedit should work on the same COM port (nobody has ever reported a basic problem like that with PEQedit). But make sure you are not running RM at the same time, because only one program at a time can open a specific COM port.

Definitely not running RM, exited out of it. However I did do a RM session prior to trying PEQedit. I ran RM, then closed it out, then unplugged the USB adapter from the laptop, then turned the RX-V1800 off, then back on, then plugged the USB back in, then ran PEQedit.

Am I correct that I am supposed to use a null modem cable like I do for RM? And I assume it doesn't matter if the RX-V1800 is already on.

Quote:


Use the latest PEQedit (version 1.1), and maybe reboot to make sure you're not stuck in some funny state (on my laptop the USB to RS232 adapter won't work after the laptop goes into standby mode).

I downloaded it today from the link here so I'm pretty sure its 1.1. Will double check.

Quote:


And if the 1800 is off (in standby) when you run PEQedit, does it at least turn on when you press Open?

Will check tomorrow. First I'll try rebooting just to make sure its a clean slate. Thanks again!
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post #86 of 291
12/18/08 at 5:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Am I correct that I am supposed to use a null modem cable like I do for RM? And I assume it doesn't matter if the RX-V1800 is already on.

Yes, same connection as for RM (I leave mine connected all the time), and the receiver can be on or off (standby). So make sure you choose the same COM port number that you know worked for RM, and also plug the USB to RS-232 adapter in the same USB port all the time (because it may change to a different COM port number when you plug it into a different USB port).

I suppose you must have version 2.0 of the Microsoft .NET framework or it wouldn't run at all (but check Control Panel / Add Remove Programs to see if it's listed there).

PM me if you are still having a problem and I could send you a debug version to diagnose why it's failing.
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post #87 of 291
12/18/08 at 5:54pm
Thread Starter 
It seems the 3900 and Z7 use a completely different set of RS-232 commands (like the Z11). I don't know why they did this (except that the new commands are basically the same as the network commands that these models support), because they are now much longer which doesn't make any sense for RS-232 which is already slow enough.

Not only that, but I don't think (to be confirmed) that asynchronous reports are supported any longer over RS-232. These are reports generated by the receiver whenever its status changes (e.g. volume is changed using the remote, or a different input is selected), and it's the mechanism by which the VolumeControl program can respond to buttons pressed on the remote. If this is true, RS-232 control is not so useful anymore.

Of course, network control is really the way to go with the new models, but even here it seems (from the documentation) that asynchronous reports are not supported. Apparently a limited number of events (including volume changes) are reported using TCP/IP multi-casting, but not every event will be reported (e.g. a volume change event is only sent 1 second after the last volume change, presumably to avoid generating too much network traffic). A lot of interesting things could be done if each volume change were instantly reported (like it used to be), so I think these changes to the protocol are a step backwards in some ways.
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post #88 of 291
1/7/09 at 6:58am
Great programs! Just trying to understand PEQedit. When making manual changes, should I be adjusting the filters until the thick black line (response) is flat if I'm trying to get a flat response? There are some weird things YPAO has done to create some serious dips in my front channels that makes me wonder if I'm really doing the right thing...

I ran YPAO in FRONT mode last, but loaded the FLAT settings from System Memory 1. Is the frequency response I'm seeing that of my last run in FRONT mode? If so, my manual edits for FLAT mode (3 YPAO runs ago) is all wrong!
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post #89 of 291
1/7/09 at 7:50am
Is this the connector I need http://www.mercadolivre.com.br/jm/it...LB&id=86100308 ?

Sorry for the mercadolivre link since i'm from Brazil this will be faster to put my hands on.
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post #90 of 291
1/7/09 at 9:25am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by veggav View Post

Is this the connector I need http://www.mercadolivre.com.br/jm/it...LB&id=86100308 ?

That should give you a serial port, but you will still need a null modem (crossover) cable to connect it to the receiver. That cable will need female DB9 connectors on both ends.
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