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Amplifier debacle -onkyo 805 vs 806

post #1 of 37
9/16/08 at 8:01am
Thread Starter 
update - i got an offer on a 905 that is good so now I am thinking 805 vs 905 (the 905 is for 420 more duckets then the 805)... but I am still interested in this 805 vs 806 - since it is not clear on the forum...

So I thought I had it all worked out
but that was before the onkyo 806.

My choice was simple - I wanted the amplifier that would work best with my sony PS3 and Panasonic PT-AE-2000U PJ. - For BluRay in 1080/24p, games, and my little pioneer dv-490v dvd upscaling dvd player (for usa zoned discs).
Now I have a set of B&W MT-30 7.1 on the way (it is the 5.1 plus 2 matching bw's).
I had decided on the onkyo 805 for ps3 compatibility and DTS-MA (that is what I understood).

I have looked around for a couple weeks now on here and elsewhere and do not see a really clear way to decide this. I keep flip-flopping and my wife is complaining I am spending too much time figuring it out. She is right. I am the guy who buys gear once every 10 years and runs it into the ground - so I do not want to get something that is now wise for the moment and some kind of longevity. I have a large room (10x8meters wood floor, hard walls) and big screen (200inch diagonal on a DIY painted screen wall). I am a full time cameraman - so I care about my home theater. With a newborn it is my only space to relax at the end of long days (is there a difference in day an night anymore ? ).

The problem with my decision is that I cannot find any info, that I can understand, to tell the real differences between amps and how they really sound and are used. The discussion about dynamic volume relative to the wife and kids and the Denon 8068/9 was interesting for example.

Can anyone or everyone help me sort this out? I have seen plenty of postings asking this same question elsewhere and lots of people saying - yah I am trying to make the same decision... but still no answers. Certainly motivated by the cheap deals on 805 or any 5 series of onkyo.

I am not stuck on onkyo - just DTS-MA, my ps 3 and how that powers the B&W's. It needs to work well with headphones also. (baby and kids go to bed when I watch my film of the day) I have very good ears - I used to be a musician and sound engineer - so I care a lot.

The last fly in the ointment is that I am in France (so I pay in france for an 805 what you can find the 905 for on ebay usa ) I need a warranty and the correct 220v/50hz so no grey market for me...

here is what I see.

so the chart for france...
or me the 805 is available at a reasonable price (but not like the usa)
the 806 is 150 more
the 875 is another 250 on top (maybe a deal for 150 over 806)
the 905 is another 20 on top of that (new offer)
the 876 is another 280 on top of that
the 906 is another 200 more

i am inclined towards the 805 or 806 or 875

no neural surround mode that was in the 805 - never heard it and dont know if it is important

The 806 THD is .08
805 is .05% thd
I dont think anyone can hear this...

806 has 2 hdmi outs and an extra hdmi input (then 805)

DAC :
TX-SR805: PCM1796×5 this is burr brown?
TX-SR806: CS4382A×1 I saw this on the 875 and 905 I think except it was x5

TX-SR805: HDMI 3 In 1 Out and no upscaling
TX-SR806: HDMI 5 In 1 Out and has DCDi 1080i upscaling

806 is made in malysia | 805 ?

denon 2808/9? i know nothing about.

905 just adds ethernet and more in/outs and better video filter is it worth 420 more then the 805?

Anyone else doing a search on this stuff care to contribute and we can come up with something clear here... breakdown what the specs mean and differences.

If you want to propose another brand then post the info as well... dont bother saying did you look into X brand and no comparisons...

so now I am thinking 805 or 905... This changes faster then weather...

Olias

ps - seeing how much prices fluctuate ... I do not even want to know the margins on this stuff....
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post #2 of 37
9/16/08 at 8:33am
My initial impression would narrow you down to 806 or 875, since they have more HDMI inputs. I feel that more and more devices will be HDMI in the future. So 1) Cable box, 2) CD/DVD/Blu player (1 or 2 inputs needed depending on how many players) 3) Game systems

I could easily see an average home using 5 or 6 HDMI inputs, 1 for cable, 2 more for CD - Blu, and 3 for game systems. The saving grace will be that some items can do double duty (CD,DVD,Blu could all be in one unit, and one game system as well in ps3's case)

Go for more HDMI inputs. 875/905 has 4 inputs, 806 has 5 inputs. The 805 only has 3 (do not recommend this one)

I know I will need:
1) HD Cable
2) HD-DVD
3) Bluray
4) Xbox360 (Might use component for this one)
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post #3 of 37
9/16/08 at 9:09am
Thread Starter 
do you think the extra input is worth 420 more on the 905? that plus the rest of the 905 package?... is the audio quality very different between the 805 and the 905?
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post #4 of 37
9/16/08 at 9:14am
Quote:


is the audio quality very different between the 805 and the 905?

no!!
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post #5 of 37
9/16/08 at 1:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:


is the audio quality very different between the 805 and the 905?

no!!

How do you know? have you heard them both?
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post #6 of 37
9/16/08 at 2:45pm
The 905 would have more features than the 806. Just look at those features and decide if they really are anything you would use.

I believe the sound quality will be similiar on both.

The Nice features I like:
1) Audyessey EQ - and the auto setup-eq adjustment routine.
2) Number of HDMI inputs.
3) Reon upconversion technology.

If the 806 has audyessey, I would recommend it over any of your other choices. To me the Audyessey helps configure the sound. 806 also has the most HDMI inputs.

I guess I'm looking at your question from a practical and future usability standpoint. To me the Onkyo's "sound" fine. None have been singled out for audio quality being subpar. Are there units out there with better sound? Probably. And they will cost more. TBH The Onkyo's really are decent value. To improve on them requires spending more money.
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post #7 of 37
9/16/08 at 2:57pm
Thread Starter 
the 805 does have the aud eq.

is anyone out there familiar with the 905's ethernet connection? do you have to have a PC hooked up or can it be straight off a hard drive? does it have to go straight into a router or can it proxy through a computer? anyone tried a mac with it?
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post #8 of 37
9/24/08 at 4:24am
Thread Starter 
I just opened my package which was pre-opened and tested by them. And it is missing the setup audessey mic. I decided to plug it in the wall with no speakers or anything - just to make sure it turns on and

POP ! spark and smoke out the top back right side.... it was loud and scared me.

However the display seems to still work. I guess I will plug in some old speakers and see if it works. I tried calling the vender but he is out to lunch!

if this turns into something then I will start a new thread. on the 905 thread probably....

If it works should I just keep it? should I get it serviced? it is 27kilos so it is expensive to ship.
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post #9 of 37
9/24/08 at 5:10am
It popped and smoked, and you are wondering if you should keep it? I wouldn't even bother to hook it up. Send it back, if it was already opened, it's probably someone else's return.

Just out of curiosity, where did you buy this? They should be avoided.
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post #10 of 37
9/24/08 at 5:36am
Thread Starter 
so you dont think I should try to get it looked at... just send it back? because then I wonder if they will just send me a 906... then my thread needs to be 905 vs 906...
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post #11 of 37
9/24/08 at 7:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olias_Sunhillow View Post

so you dont think I should try to get it looked at... just send it back? because then I wonder if they will just send me a 906... then my thread needs to be 905 vs 906...

I would never have a brand new product looked at. If you have ever done warranty repairs, you would know that this could take months. I would also be concerned about recieving a used product, it was open.

Why would they send you a 906? And if they do, good for you, you will get a newer model.

Depending on who the vendor is, I would probably get a refund, and buy elsewhere. You should also demand that they pay return shipping. There really is no exuse for sending out used products, and it shouldn't cost you anything for their mistake. But you didn't say where you got it.
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post #12 of 37
9/24/08 at 10:04am
Thread Starter 
thanx william...
They are giving me the address of onkyo france (where I am) and I will send it direct to them for the repair. The dealer said that this is the way to avoid delays. He also said that if the parts that are blown are discontinued that they would get me a 906 - that is why. I was worried about that because I read that the 906 has no neural surround and different circuits (burr brown?) I am not sure if I am confusing this issue with the 805 and the 806.
As long as the dealer does not leave me in the wind - I am ok. I could not have paid for the 906 anyway and he gave me the 905 for a deal. So even if it was a "deal" from someone elses problem I am happy to have a good product that works at a price I can afford, even if I have to wait a bit for the repair. Anyway I am not able to listen to the speakers for a bit now, since I have a newborn in the house... so a wait is not a big deal. I miss a couple of projections. in the end I will have an 905 or 6 at a good price.
Maybe I am looking at this the wrong way... what do you think? For the moment I am more worried about 906 vs 905 then a wait for a long repair.
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post #13 of 37
9/24/08 at 10:20am
Quote:


in the end I will have an 905 or 6 at a good price.
Maybe I am looking at this the wrong way... what do you think? For the moment I am more worried about 906 vs 905 then a wait for a long repair.

You will have a used and refurbished product. You are definetely looking at it different than I would.

As far as your concerns about the 906, it is almost identical. It's a 905 with a couple of added features, nothing to worry about.

Why didn't your dealer just exchange it for another one? That's what any decent dealer would do.
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post #14 of 37
9/24/08 at 10:27am
william is right about this one... make the dealer take it back and refund your money, even if you have to eat the return shipping... or take it back and exchange it...

look at it this way... someone sold you a product that wasn't as advertised (i.e. apparently used and returned, sold to you as new), and you are now going to trust them not to leave you "in the wind"??

i understand you "want" the 905 (heaven knows, i experience that "want" feeling altogether too often )... but don't let your "want" for it overcome good judgment...
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post #15 of 37
9/24/08 at 10:31am
so the dealer is saying hey if you have a problem take it up with the factory "trust me" it will be faster that way - this is bullsh*t unless he told you upfront that he was selling you a return (was returned for a reason) without all of the factory parts (setup mic) and informed you that if this product was registered in another persons name you may not have a warr with it then you got taken. RETURN IT TO THE DEALER AND NEVER GIVE HIM YOUR MONEY AGAIN! pay an extra $100 bucks or whatever and buy a brand new one from a trusted source then sit back and enjoy for years to come. oh IMHO
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post #16 of 37
9/24/08 at 12:16pm
Thread Starter 
You guys are right, I will talk with him tomorrow. It is too bad there is not a policy i can quote from onkyo about unopened boxes or something. But the principle is evident - you dont test things without any warning. He even put the receipt inside the box.
Just to thicken the plot, I had purchased an 805 from him - paid for it, sent the check. His partner sold it from underneath me on a walk in while he was gone for a funeral. I call back and he apologizes it is gone offers me an 806 - which I am not interested in (see the rest of this thread). I gave up and told him to send back my check. He did not and called me back a couple days later offering me a good deal on the 806, i refused again and he offered the 905 the next day. So on top of that he has 2 checks of mine and they are cashed. I think I can technically still cancel the checks for up to 2 weeks from there date over here, but it is very difficult to do. (i.e. not sure I can).
I cannot add another dime into this story - I am way over budget already (from my 805 to 905 upgrade - which I already posted cost me 400 more then the original plan - I hope my wife does not read this ) I would say this is a bait and switch except that I refused and moved on for a couple of days - but he did hang on to my check for a longer then I asked... hmmm ...
Sucks not to trust people...

So I think this is way to off topic now so I think we should move this over to the official 905 thread - if you do not agree then keep posting here.

the official thread is here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post14730668

Thanks so much for your fast input -
olias

Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 View Post

You will have a used and refurbished product. You are definetely looking at it different than I would.

As far as your concerns about the 906, it is almost identical. It's a 905 with a couple of added features, nothing to worry about.

Why didn't your dealer just exchange it for another one? That's what any decent dealer would do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

william is right about this one... make the dealer take it back and refund your money, even if you have to eat the return shipping... or take it back and exchange it...

look at it this way... someone sold you a product that wasn't as advertised (i.e. apparently used and returned, sold to you as new), and you are now going to trust them not to leave you "in the wind"??

i understand you "want" the 905 (heaven knows, i experience that "want" feeling altogether too often )... but don't let your "want" for it overcome good judgment...

Quote:
Originally Posted by audio0947 View Post

so the dealer is saying hey if you have a problem take it up with the factory "trust me" it will be faster that way - this is bullsh*t unless he told you upfront that he was selling you a return (was returned for a reason) without all of the factory parts (setup mic) and informed you that if this product was registered in another persons name you may not have a warr with it then you got taken. RETURN IT TO THE DEALER AND NEVER GIVE HIM YOUR MONEY AGAIN! pay an extra $100 bucks or whatever and buy a brand new one from a trusted source then sit back and enjoy for years to come. oh IMHO
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post #17 of 37
9/24/08 at 12:47pm
just to give you an example of how a dealer should act... several years ago i bought 2 monoblock amps from a local dealer when i got home and hooked them up one did not work i called the dealer and he said come back tomorrow and i will replace it. i went in the next afternoon and asked for paul (owner) sales guy said he wasnt in and would not be back for the rest of the week. i started to get mad but then he asked if i was the "amp guy" so i said yes anyway, not only did the owner have a new amp waiting for me but also had left a nice note and a $50 bill. i still have the amps in my bedroom system and have been back for more gear several times, i also make it a point to refer people to him.
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post #18 of 37
9/24/08 at 1:06pm
probably not the perfect fit for this forum, but would appreciate you advise......

I have decided on Onkyo, and have heard the 705 and the 805 and are happy with both.

i have an 805 - black refub on order from shop onkyo,

i noticed today on amazon they have the silver 705 at a more economical even free shipping no tax.

Am I going to get the value out of the 805, and should i be concerned
about the refurb?

thanks
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post #19 of 37
9/24/08 at 1:13pm
Thread Starter 
you should start your own thread and not mentions prices like that...
read the sticky at the top of the forum....

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post #20 of 37
9/24/08 at 1:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olias_Sunhillow View Post

you should start your own thread and not mentions prices like that...
read the sticky at the top of the forum....



ow crap, sorry
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post #21 of 37
9/24/08 at 1:28pm
if you buy refurb from onkyo you should have no issue. hey olias relax we are all here to help eachother. inter, he is correct in that you should try not to mention the total price but you would be safe in saying something like i can get A for $50 more than B.
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post #22 of 37
9/24/08 at 2:02pm
Thread Starter 
oh yah no problem... I see how that could come across... I was just telling interested party that I thought that was a mistake. I hate it when posts do not get out the way i hope or get deleted by admin's. Plus he can edit it. I do not care if it stays here... after all the thread is titled about 805 and 6. though I did try to change it - but it seems you cannot. I am pretty much done discussing this over on the official 905 thread now.
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post #23 of 37
9/24/08 at 2:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio0947 View Post

if you buy refurb from onkyo you should have no issue. hey olias relax we are all here to help eachother. inter, he is correct in that you should try not to mention the total price but you would be safe in saying something like i can get A for $50 more than B.

thanks, you were right, i was not trying to break any rules here....

to use your phrase in my situation

the 805 refurb is $70 more than the new 705


sorry for being a newbie, but this is a great forum and i appreciate the advise

any more thoughts?
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post #24 of 37
9/24/08 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olias_Sunhillow View Post

oh yah no problem... I see how that could come across... I was just telling interested party that I thought that was a mistake. I hate it when posts do not get out the way i hope or get deleted by admin's. Plus he can edit it. I do not care if it stays here... after all the thread is titled about 805 and 6. though I did try to change it - but it seems you cannot. I am pretty much done discussing this over on the official 905 thread now.


no worries, thanks for the help and posting advise
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post #25 of 37
9/29/08 at 11:49am
Okay this seems to be a nice debate on which one to get but...

I will be buying as of next week possibly this weekend, need input fast please.

Everywhere I have read has not had the kind input that I am looking for to determine which is the better choice, 805 or 806. So far everyone just lists off the specs for both.

I am an audiophile on a budget (aren't we all). At this point I can buy an 805 at 600usd or an 806 at 800usd. Extended warranties not included. Obviously I want the clearest cleanest sound possible for the money.

My living room is actually pretty small about 11x9 with my TV couch relation being on the 9foot side. I fully understand that I don't need a high wattage system when I am that close. I will say that I can hear a clarity difference from a higher wattage system at lower volumes and that is why I am opting for the 8 series as apposed to the 7 series.

I have had the chance to listen to an 806 and a 706 and prefer the 806 by far. I have not had the chance to compare the 806 vs. the 805 though.

I know the 805 has Burr Brown while the 806 does not, I know the THD on the 805 is better. I am also aware of the overheating issue with the 805, This will not be an issue for be because I have no problem adding a quiet fan to reduce that issue. Also I do not care about up-conversion, I don't use any devices that have composite connection anymore.


Now to the meat of the quandary and the question I have that I think will help me decide which one I go for once and for all.

1) Has anyone heard the difference between the two and if so is how great is the difference between the two?

2) Can anyone tell me if the Burr Brown DACS really make much of a real world difference on any receiver? I know that this is subjecting but I want as many opinions on this as possible.

3) Does anyone have a clear answer if the 806 has THX sound processing (I know it does not have THX neural sound). The 805 has been confirmed to have this and both are THX certified.

4) Has anyone found any issues or bugs in either of the two units?

5) Another item to note is that when powering a zone 2 the max wattage output on the 806 goes down to 145 instead of the 150 on the 805.(I won't be using this option as far as i know)

6) Finally has anyone seen, or rather heard, the popping noise effect that I have read about in the 805 when listening to DTS-HD and resuming from a paused state? Also is this resident in the 806 as well?
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post #26 of 37
10/9/08 at 1:56am
Hi raistline!

Have you made a decision on one of the two onkyos?

I'm kind of in the same dilemma as you and just wanted to know which receiver you finally went with.
Have you had an opportunity to listen to both of them?
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post #27 of 37
10/9/08 at 6:45am
Quote:


Have you made a decision on one of the two onkyos?

I'm kind of in the same dilemma as you and just wanted to know which receiver you finally went with.
Have you had an opportunity to listen to both of them?

I actually have not been able to listen to the 806. I did listen to the 806,706, and 606 though. The 606 and 706 sound nearly identical while the 806 sounds a bit cleaner.

I ended out going with the 606 and upgrading my sub. The biggest reason being that even though the 806 sounds a bit cleaner it is not $450 USD better sounding. This basing on the fact that the 806 is $800 USD while the 606 is $350 USD (amazon prices).

If I did had another 300 in my pocket I would have just upgraded my center speaker.


If you do have your heart set on the 800 series I would go with the 806. The extra HDMI port makes a huge difference. In the end you are losing next to nothing with it not having the Burr Brown DACS. I have also found from some serious listening and reading, the THX qualification really mean nothing. All it means is that the company paid the money to have THX take a look at it so they can justify a higher price. Most decent receievers could easily get THX certification if they paid to have thier receiver looked at.

I am really amazed by Onkyo quality. I never thought that even the 606 would be so much better then my previous Yamaha receiver.
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post #28 of 37
10/9/08 at 8:51am
Quote:


The 606 and 706 sound nearly identical while the 806 sounds a bit cleaner.

bit cleaner....less distortion?

Quote:


I have also found from some serious listening and reading, the THX qualification really mean nothing.

Very true
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post #29 of 37
10/9/08 at 8:55am
Quote:


Quote:
The 606 and 706 sound nearly identical while the 806 sounds a bit cleaner.
bit cleaner....less distortion?

Not I don't mean less distortion, by cleaner I mean more crisp and more true to life.
I guess using the phrase, a cleaner sound is misleading :-P
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post #30 of 37
10/9/08 at 8:58am
no worries, I was just trying to understand what differences you heard.
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