The "Official" Onkyo TX-SR876 Owners Thread - Page 111

Originally Posted by pbc

I noticed the other day that my unit remains quite warm to the touch when off (i.e., off for hours or days and still warm).

Guess that explains why.

What do Power Control and TV Control do?

Originally Posted by jcalabria

Make sure Zones 2/3 are off.

Also, that BOTH "Power Control" and "TV Control" are disabled (seems like you did from your note... just wanted to verify).

Originally Posted by Brian McKay

Well I guess I'm coming a little late to the party but I got a 876 last week. I've spent the last week running wire for the rear surrounds, configuring options on the reciever, trying to figure out whats what with settings and I think I'm finally at the point where I can enjoy movies. I'm coming from a first generation Parasound pre/pro and wow, what a difference! Movies actually sound great with the surround effects very noticable but not distracting.

I'm using my existing power amps (2 Adcom 555's) for the front and center and the 876's built ins for the surrounds and rear surrounds. These are hooked up to Paradigm Reference 100's (v2) for the fronts, LCR450's for the surrounds, a CC450 for the center and a Servo15 for the sub. If I had of know there was this much of an improvement over the Parasound stuff, I would have made the change years ago.

Now I just need to upgrade my projector to a new 1080p unit and I'll be all set... well that and a firmware upgrade to the 876

One quick question if anyone can answer; once you do a firmware upgrade do you need to rerun the Audessy setup again?

Thanks folks for guiding me to this reciever!

Originally Posted by Brian McKay

Well I guess I'm coming a little late to the party but I got a 876 last week. I've spent the last week running wire for the rear surrounds, configuring options on the reciever, trying to figure out whats what with settings and I think I'm finally at the point where I can enjoy movies. I'm coming from a first generation Parasound pre/pro and wow, what a difference! Movies actually sound great with the surround effects very noticable but not distracting.

I'm using my existing power amps (2 Adcom 555's) for the front and center and the 876's built ins for the surrounds and rear surrounds. These are hooked up to Paradigm Reference 100's (v2) for the fronts, LCR450's for the surrounds, a CC450 for the center and a Servo15 for the sub. If I had of know there was this much of an improvement over the Parasound stuff, I would have made the change years ago.

Now I just need to upgrade my projector to a new 1080p unit and I'll be all set... well that and a firmware upgrade to the 876

One quick question if anyone can answer; once you do a firmware upgrade do you need to rerun the Audessy setup again?

Thanks folks for guiding me to this reciever!

Originally Posted by perritterd

Hello. I have a Samsung LN46A650 TV. I am able to turn on the Film Mode in the setup of the TV and it will de-interlace the video signal and display any film content at 1080p/24hz if there is 24hz. info available within the video stream that is being broadcast at 60hz. It has something to do with reverse 3:2 pulldown. My Onkyo 876 has a Picture Mode within the setup that, I believe, is supposed to do the same thing if I am understanding the manual correctly-"Picture Mode: Auto/Video/Film (Auto- Automatically detect and process accordingly, Video- 20 fps, Film- 24 fps. Picture Mode function will not work if the source component (DVD player, etc.) is outputting progressive scan video.)". My question is, am I correct in my assumptions about the Picture Mode setting? Will it produce a 24hz. picture from a 60hz. source (if the 24hz. film source is present within the 60 hz. video feed) I am able to display the input signal coming into my TV. If I am correct about the Picture Mode, then I should see on my TV that the video source outputted from the 876 to the TV should be 1080p/24hz. Does any of this seem reasonable? I am just trying to get 24hz. out of any HBO, Cinemax, etc movie that I can when watching those channels. It definitely seems to be a more realistic picture when viewed at 24hz vs. 60hz.

I thank you for any assistance.
Bob.

Originally Posted by perritterd

Anyone w/any ideas about how the "Picture Mode" works? Is the signal being sent to the TV at 24hz. if imbedded within the video signal?

Thanks,
Bob.

Originally Posted by jcalabria

Picture Mode has to do with how the 876 de-interlaces interlaced sources... the optimum de-interlacing algorithm is different depending on whether the interlaced source is film-based (24fps) or video based (30fps). It has NOTHING to do with converting frame rates from 24fps to 30/60fps, or vice versa... and it has nothing to do with playback of progressive scan (non-interlaced) sources, regardless of frame rate.

Your TV also has a similar setting, and it works the same way... optimizing the deinterlacing process for interlaced sources only. Again, it has nothing to do with converting frame rates.

Essentially, the only common source of interlaced 24fps video is an SD DVD player that is configured to output 480i/24 (or 1080i/24 - which I do not believe would ever be a wise choice if you have an 876). If you feed this into your 876 with the output upscaled to 1080p, then the Film Mode setting could come into play. However, 99.999% of the time, leaving it set to Auto is just fine because it will then auto-detect that it is a 24fps source and choose the correct de-interlacing process. In this case, the setting in the TV would have no effect whatsoever because the source, as the TV sees it, is already progressive scan. If you were to feed the 480i/24 DVD source directly into the TV, then the setting in the TV might matter, but again the Auto setting should work correctly 99.999% of the time.

The only device in most HT systems that can do frame rate conversions are typically DVD and BD players, and they typically can only convert 24fps sources to 30/60fps (using the 3:2 pulldown scheme) to prevent downstream devices that cannot handle 24fps sources from ever seeing them. No common device converts 60fps video to 24fps.

Now, to your A650 TV... as a native 120Hz refresh display, all common frame rates are even submultiples of its native refresh rate. It can display both 24 and 60 Hz video without resorting to any reverse pulldown shenanigans... 24Hz sources will repeat every single frame 5x (straight 5:5 pulldown) to fill the 120Hz display refresh rate, and 60Hz sources will repeat frames 2x. There is no need, as in a 60Hz display, to resort to 3:2 pulldown to make 24Hz video "fit" into a 60Hz refresh rate.

BTW... if you feed a 1080p/24 signal from a BD player through the 876, regardless of what your Monitor Out or Source Setup settings are, the 876 essentially goes into a true "through mode" and virtually no video processor functions remain functional.

Sorry if that was TMI, lol.

Originally Posted by perritterd

I feel, though I have no definitive proof, that the 876 would be a better de-interlacer, upscaler, etc than my A650 would.

Originally Posted by perritterd

Am I correct in assuming that any SD DVD output should remain in 480i, not be upscaled to 480p by the SD DVD player for all of this to happen? The "Info" button for my TV would then show a "1080p/24hz." input to the TV from the 876 (This is what the TV displays, the input signal.)?

Originally Posted by perritterd

This quote is from someone trying to help me in the Sammy A650 forum: "The crux of the problem is that, if the receiver upscales to 1080p/60, it will necessarily retain deinterlace judder that is eliminated by Samsung's film mode. Some manufacturers have added logic to look for 24fps content in progressive 60fps signals, but Samsung does this only if it is interlaced". Does any of this make sense to you-is this what we are talking about now?

Originally Posted by jcalabria

Agree 100%, but... honestly, most of the scaler chips out there are reasonably good these days, and when viewed on TVs (not necessarily larger images of projection systems), the differences may be all but impossible to detect. It is much more important to make sure that you do all of your scaling/deinterlacing in one unit... don't split the jobs up so that the video is being scaled/processed multiple times.



Unless you have DVD or BD player whose scaler rivals the 876's, then this would be the correct assumption. However, some players DO have high-end scalers (Anchor Bay or Reon HQV, typically), in which case experimenting is in order to determine which unit is better at upscaling the DVD to 1080p.



That is correct reasoning... you always want 24Hz native sources to pass all the way to your 120Hz display as a 24Hz signal. Any device in the chain prior to the display that converts a 24Hz signal to 60Hz will introduce the typical 3:2 pulldown judder that will become embedded in its 60Hz output, with no way to correct/remove it.

BTW, the same thing applies to your previous example of watching HBO (or ANY broadcast/cable channel) that is showing a film-based program. All broadcast and cable outlets transmit 60Hz video only. The 3:2 pulldown was introduced long ago in the chain... the resulting judder is embedded in the 60Hz video and it ain't coming out.

Assuming that these sources are 1080i, the Film mode setting in the receiver (or TV, whichever deinterlaces the 1080i source to 1080p) will detect the 3:2 pulldown embedded in the 60 Hz source and use that knowledge to pick the best deinterlacing algorithm, but they will NOT remove the judder nor will they change the frame rate. Choosing the correct deinterlacing algorithm mostly has to do with eliminating jaggy lines and such that could come from choosing the wrong interlaced fields to assemble back into a progressive scan frame.

Originally Posted by perritterd

Thank you very much for the help, jcalabria. I have already found that the TV does a much better job at receiving a 1080i signal and de-interlacing it into its buffers than the 876 does. I have watched a commercial with a "fat boy" climbing a set of stairs and you don't see any of the steps or handrails jagged and distorted as I do when letting the 876 do everything! I was very surprised at this w/the Reon chip in the 876. Whether to leave the 876 in "through' mode or in "1080p" mode will take some experimenting.
Bob.

Originally Posted by runnin'

I've had the 876 for about a year now after reading advice on these pages and I've been quite happy with the results. But one thing that I had to get used to was the 8 second delay when channel surfing from an HD channel to a SD channel.

Does anyone know if Onkyo made a firmware update that improved that particular issue?

Originally Posted by jcalabria

That really does surprise me a bit, too. The Silicon Optix HQV scalers are generally known as just about the best out there for avoiding scaling/deinterlacing artifacts, particularly the jaggies. I'm not saying you don't see what you see... just that its not the predictable result.

When you had the 876 deinterlacing the 1080i source, had you switched between Auto/Film/Video in the Picture Mode setting? If you manually set it to either Film or Video, and the source changed to the opposite, then additional jaggies could definitely be the result... which is why Auto is normally the safest bet and typically has no trouble determining whether the interlaced source originated as film (with 3:2 pulldown) or video (without pulldown). If you set it manually you (a.) may be wrong and (b.) probably will forget to change it when appropriate - which is for every commercial (which you DID say you were watching in your test!) if watching a movie on a broadcast/cable network, along with intersticial breaks and video based documentaries/sports/etc. on the pay networks. Of course, if it WAS on Auto and you had problems, then that is the legit time to try one of the manual settings just in case the auto-detection scheme was being fooled for some reason.

Originally Posted by henningdalgaard

I have problems connecting onkyo 876 to my ACER AL2423w 24" TFT via HDMI SUB.
I have tried using main sub as well, and I have tried 480p, 720p and all the other settings. The acer is not HDCP but it should still get an image right?
It works fine when I connect it directly to my vista HTPC, so why doesn't it work even under the "through" setting?

Originally Posted by synfinatic

If you buy it from TigerDirect, order it via Amazon for free shipping. I saved $78 that way.

Originally Posted by synfinatic

If you buy it from TigerDirect, order it via Amazon for free shipping. I saved $78 that way.

Originally Posted by synfinatic

I didn't do anything special... just went to Amazon, found the 876 for sale by TigerDirect + free shipping. I ordered it and confirmed it was free shipping in my cart. Was *NOT* via Amazon Prime. I just looked on the Amazon site and it's still showing the same deal.

Tiger is still running a "free shipping" deal, but they cap that to items <= 35lbs so the 876 doesn't qualify.

Originally Posted by M3 Pete

I must have "sucker" written on my account, because Amazon still shows me $33 in shipping, and we are both in California. I went all the way through to the "Place Order" screen just to make sure.

And when I ordered last week shipping was $45.

Originally Posted by jcalabria

It's not an HDCP issue (although you would eventually run into that with protected content)... it's likely an EDID issue. Its all in the EDID info the monitor supplies to the source... if there is no "common ground" resolution between devices, they will not sync up. If the display does not specificially list 480p, 720p or 1080p in its EDID, then the 876 will not find any common ground with it.

I looked at the manual for that display to try to get a definitive list of supported resolutions, but the manual does not list them. Do you know what resolution the HTPC outputs when connected directly to the monitor? I would suspect that the display does not support TV resolutions, which is not a problem for the PC since it will negotiate a PC resolution with the display (the PC SHOULD be sending the display its native 1920x1200).

The 876 supports TV resolutions only and will not pass non-TV resolutions. The 876 has no such thing as a "Through" mode (as in complete hardware bypass, in to out)... "Through" for the 876 merely means that the output resolution matches the source resolution. There is no total bypass of the video processor EXCEPT when 1080p/24 is input, in which case the processor is automatically bypassed.

Originally Posted by Bill Ball

Amazon shows $33.29 for shipping for me too. It's not eligible for Amazon prime. Over all it was cheaper for me to do Bing and Tiger. Also, there is another 5% Tiger rebate via Mr. Rebates. SOMETIMES you can combine other 3rd party rebates with Bing, but according to Bing policy you can't. I was able to combine Mr. Rebates and Bing on a UN46B8500 purchase from eBay on advice of the seller, but I didn't want to risk losing the Bing 8% in this case. Anyway, didn't mean to hijack this thread, but either way, it is a good deal on the 876.